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Not going to Cannibalize Netbook and Notebook sales until there is a Flash Solution.

I am not buying one just for that reason. Instead of paying $800 for an iPad, I rather get an MacBook Pro for $1,000 with FLASH.
 
Because people like to say "cannibalization."
"Excuse me, do you have cannibalization?" "We need more cannibalization." "Where is the cannibalization? No cannibalization?"

It does roll off the tongue nicely. It makes "is selling well" sound much more exciting.
 
Sounds more like damage control to downplay his original statements. (which were likely not far off the mark)

And you believe this why?

Because you think the iPad is teh awesome?

Because you think that BB would rather sell low-profit netbooks rather than high-profit iPads?

Because you think that the CEO of BB would enjoy being charged by the SEC for making materially misleading statements?
 
Who bought/buys an iPad (or computer for that matter) for one function? Did the survey allow for multiple choices or only one? I know I sat up and took notice when Steve Jobs demo'd the iPad in late January and said it would do 7 things better than either a smartphone or a laptop:

Email
Internet
Photos
Games
Music
Video
eBooks

Then I knew that the App store would bring that number way up and pre-ordered. I have never looked back or regretted the purchase (and I bought the 3G/64GB model.) Money well spent.

Well you can sit back down 'cause the iPad excels at several of the above but not all in each device category, ie. smartphone & laptop.

13% is still a big number, actually.

Only if your view of the world is from a small bath tub.
 
Because you think that BB would rather sell low-profit netbooks rather than high-profit iPads?

You think Apple allows large margins for retailers? lolz... the high profit items are the accessories, cases, screen protectors... margins on apple profits for retailers are low.
 
I think it is a more impressive statistic that 52% of iPad buyers are PC users. Considering that they are usually the ones bashing the iPad saying it is a giant iPod touch with no purpose.
 
I think it is a more impressive statistic that 52% of iPad buyers are PC users. Considering that they are usually the ones bashing the iPad saying it is a giant iPod touch with no purpose.

The counter to your argument is that 99% of the PC users are not Ipad buyers. The number of PC users *not* buying Ipads is much more germane to the argument.
 
Not going to Cannibalize Netbook and Notebook sales until there is a Flash Solution.

I am not buying one just for that reason. Instead of paying $800 for an iPad, I rather get an MacBook Pro for $1,000 with FLASH.

if flash is so important, just buy a netbook for $239, it will render pages faster than the ipad anyways. with all the money left over you can buy a gaming laptop.
 
Who bought/buys an iPad (or computer for that matter) for one function? Did the survey allow for multiple choices or only one? I know I sat up and took notice when Steve Jobs demo'd the iPad in late January and said it would do 7 things better than either a smartphone or a laptop:

Email
Internet
Photos
Games
Music
Video
eBooks

Then I knew that the App store would bring that number way up and pre-ordered. I have never looked back or regretted the purchase (and I bought the 3G/64GB model.) Money well spent.


$500 ipad Vs $500 Netbook (Asus 1215N)
1GHz A4 vs 1.83GHz Dual core

Email - faster on the netbook with multiple email clients for options, not to mention much easier to put attachments on your emails, the ipad/iphone/itouch is crap for this, you dont even have a file browser to help you out
Internet - faster and more flexible, netbook can accept tethering from any smartphone (wifi, usb, bluetooth), the netbook will slaughter the ipad in webpage rendering speed, also you have FULL flash and hardware acceleration
Photos - thousands of apps for the netbook including 64bit photoshop
Games - can play source based games as well as lots of games from steam and you have the option of a bluetooth mouse and a full qwerty
Music - with up to 1TB of storage, yeah, the netbook does this better, you also have a choice of hundreds of not thousands of media applications
Video - dont even try and compare the ipad, the netbook does 1080p bluray rips over HDMI, the netbook has a true 16:9 display as well 1366x768
eBooks - you can store millions on the netbook (well maybe not millions but hundreds of thousands), dont like the screen? you can output the text to a larger display if you want (either through hdmi or vga)

you can run ubuntu 64bit on this laptop just fine if you dont like W7 64bit

so what exactly is better about the ipad in each of those categories?
 
FWIW I've never seen my iPad eat a netbook, it just likes a good tasty meal of electricity every now and again.
 
Do I think iPad is really Cannibalizing Netbooks and notebook computer sales?
No I do not.
I think reason we saw the decline in sales of netbooks was because the numbers were unsustainable plan and simple. Any one with even a minor amount of reasoning could see that fact and something was going to give.

I do not see the iPad as a netbook replacement at all. Like SJ said the iPad really is something that fits inbetween laptops and a smart phone. I see quite a few people at school with an iPad but every one of them also has a laptop or netbook. The iPad is a great tool but far from a netbook or laptop replacement.

Netbook can replace a laptop providing you have a desktop back at home for the real heavy lifting.
 
so what exactly is better about the ipad in each of those categories?

Very easy to use, no special pointing device required, responsive interface, long battery life, beautiful, extremely quick resume times, seamless WiFi/3G switching, don't need to be sitting to use it. Netbooks frequently fail in one or more of these categories.

And who the heck reads eBooks on a netbook? Talk about hassle.
 
My thought: Netbooks where a bit of a phase at one point. Now that everyone has one, sales would have steadied down. Ironically this has happened around the time the iPad came out (great timing Apple :rolleyes:).
 
Very easy to use, no special pointing device required, responsive interface, long battery life, beautiful, extremely quick resume times, seamless WiFi/3G switching, don't need to be sitting to use it. Netbooks frequently fail in one or more of these categories.

And who the heck reads eBooks on a netbook? Talk about hassle.

My iPhone does all of these fine, and it fits in my pocket :D

Well except for reading eBooks, but that's what an eBook reader is for.
 
Someone I know wants to replace his Sony Vaio with an iPad. We've talked about the considerable limitations of iOS compared to Windows 7 on his portable laptop but still he wants to go ahead with it. I'm fully onboard with the cult of Apple so, for me it's an easy choice to make. But my friend is someone who has invested heavily in Windows, the laptops, the desktops, the software and he runs a business from it. I never expected to see the iPhone effect (he loves that too) trigger a change of thinking. After the iPad he's looking at switching to Mac.
 
Screw market research.
With a lot folks I know, they want to get an iPad when previously all they wanted was a notebook to browse the web or check their emails.

$500 ipad Vs $500 Netbook (Asus 1215N)
1GHz A4 vs 1.83GHz Dual core

Email - faster on the netbook with multiple email clients for options, not to mention much easier to put attachments on your emails, the ipad/iphone/itouch is crap for this, you dont even have a file browser to help you out
Internet - faster and more flexible, netbook can accept tethering from any smartphone (wifi, usb, bluetooth), the netbook will slaughter the ipad in webpage rendering speed, also you have FULL flash and hardware acceleration
Photos - thousands of apps for the netbook including 64bit photoshop
Games - can play source based games as well as lots of games from steam and you have the option of a bluetooth mouse and a full qwerty
Music - with up to 1TB of storage, yeah, the netbook does this better, you also have a choice of hundreds of not thousands of media applications
Video - dont even try and compare the ipad, the netbook does 1080p bluray rips over HDMI, the netbook has a true 16:9 display as well 1366x768
eBooks - you can store millions on the netbook (well maybe not millions but hundreds of thousands), dont like the screen? you can output the text to a larger display if you want (either through hdmi or vga)

you can run ubuntu 64bit on this laptop just fine if you dont like W7 64bit

so what exactly is better about the ipad in each of those categories?

The fact that the iPad can really run for more than 10 hours on one charge with 3G enabled makes it the better device. Why? What's the point of a laptop if you have stay plugged in all day?

Of course that's my opinion; I carry my MacBook Pro around all day. I just don't feel like whipping out my laptop all time; the iPad I will take out all the time to show people stuff.

I need to show someone something? Take out iPad, power button, show them, power off, back in the bag. The powering on and taking out takes 5 seconds. With a netbook you're looking at a minute or so for just the preparatory steps. You may also need to find a connection if your thing doesn't have built-in 3G... and if it did, you would still need to connect it usually. And those utilities crash a lot.

Just because something is technically faster, or has more flexible opinions doesn't make it better. Just like the ease of use doesn't make it better.

I've used a netbook, and I think the iPad is better.
 
$500 ipad Vs $500 Netbook (Asus 1215N)
1GHz A4 vs 1.83GHz Dual core

Email - faster on the netbook with multiple email clients for options, not to mention much easier to put attachments on your emails, the ipad/iphone/itouch is crap for this, you dont even have a file browser to help you out
Internet - faster and more flexible, netbook can accept tethering from any smartphone (wifi, usb, bluetooth), the netbook will slaughter the ipad in webpage rendering speed, also you have FULL flash and hardware acceleration
Photos - thousands of apps for the netbook including 64bit photoshop
Games - can play source based games as well as lots of games from steam and you have the option of a bluetooth mouse and a full qwerty
Music - with up to 1TB of storage, yeah, the netbook does this better, you also have a choice of hundreds of not thousands of media applications
Video - dont even try and compare the ipad, the netbook does 1080p bluray rips over HDMI, the netbook has a true 16:9 display as well 1366x768
eBooks - you can store millions on the netbook (well maybe not millions but hundreds of thousands), dont like the screen? you can output the text to a larger display if you want (either through hdmi or vga)

you can run ubuntu 64bit on this laptop just fine if you dont like W7 64bit

so what exactly is better about the ipad in each of those categories?
Email- iPad has the ability to manage multiple email accounts just fine as it is and with the update to 4.2 this will become even easier with a unified inbox. Attachments can be added within the mail app or from within the other apps that contain the necessary files so I'm not really sure where you get your argument here. You don't need a file browser if your files are self contained in the applications that use them. This is a minimalistic approach to OS design and it works.

Speed- iPad runs fantastic on a mobile OS versus a netbook that poorly runs Windows 7 starter edition on an intel atom. You are comparing apples to oranges literally here. For the tasks at hand that these devices were created to do, iPad is faster.

Internet- Proof? I'm yet to see a speed test for the Internet connection run between an iPad and a netbook. It's irrelevant considering the same internet connection. Now as for flash? Sure. But really, most don't need flash nowadays considering the primary use for it is flash games and most of those have been ported into the app store.

Photos- Browsing photos on iPad destroys anything a netbook could even attempt to compete with. Multi-touch is the best way to interact with these. As for editing, who edits photos on a 10.1 screen in 64 bit photoshop? Thats the dumbest idea I've ever heard. The most necessary at this level would be basic editing tools, which Adobe has Photoshop Express for iPad to do so.

Videos- Netflix, HD movies/TV shows. The screen is crisp, clear and the battery life doesn't suffer. What's not to like? And now with apple tv you can stream these straight to the tv without plugging it in. No need for a VGA, DVI, HDMI cable.

Books- Are you retarded? Why would anyone want to read an ebook from a netbook? I had a textbook on my MacBook a few semesters ago for my system dynamics class and it was the worst experience I've ever had. Reading ebooks on a netbook is impractical and nobody reads their ebooks on their tv. By that point you might as well watch tv. Scrolling through the pages on an iPad is more natural for reading.

Your arguments are all flawed and skewed in favor of the netbook and yet you offered no real depth to your points. Explain the practicality and functionality of the netbook and realistically how it can benefit people. Nobody is impressed by your reading off a spec sheet. Half of these Android phones have 1GHz Snapdragons but yet iPhone is still outselling them all put together. It's not about raw power. It's user experience.
 
Email- iPad has the ability to manage multiple email accounts just fine as it is and with the update to 4.2 this will become even easier with a unified inbox. Attachments can be added within the mail app or from within the other apps that contain the necessary files so I'm not really sure where you get your argument here. You don't need a file browser if your files are self contained in the applications that use them. This is a minimalistic approach to OS design and it works.

Speed- iPad runs fantastic on a mobile OS versus a netbook that poorly runs Windows 7 starter edition on an intel atom. You are comparing apples to oranges literally here. For the tasks at hand that these devices were created to do, iPad is faster.

Internet- Proof? I'm yet to see a speed test for the Internet connection run between an iPad and a netbook. It's irrelevant considering the same internet connection. Now as for flash? Sure. But really, most don't need flash nowadays considering the primary use for it is flash games and most of those have been ported into the app store.

Photos- Browsing photos on iPad destroys anything a netbook could even attempt to compete with. Multi-touch is the best way to interact with these. As for editing, who edits photos on a 10.1 screen in 64 bit photoshop? Thats the dumbest idea I've ever heard. The most necessary at this level would be basic editing tools, which Adobe has Photoshop Express for iPad to do so.

Videos- Netflix, HD movies/TV shows. The screen is crisp, clear and the battery life doesn't suffer. What's not to like? And now with apple tv you can stream these straight to the tv without plugging it in. No need for a VGA, DVI, HDMI cable.

Books- Are you retarded? Why would anyone want to read an ebook from a netbook? I had a textbook on my MacBook a few semesters ago for my system dynamics class and it was the worst experience I've ever had. Reading ebooks on a netbook is impractical and nobody reads their ebooks on their tv. By that point you might as well watch tv. Scrolling through the pages on an iPad is more natural for reading.

Your arguments are all flawed and skewed in favor of the netbook and yet you offered no real depth to your points. Explain the practicality and functionality of the netbook and realistically how it can benefit people. Nobody is impressed by your reading off a spec sheet. Half of these Android phones have 1GHz Snapdragons but yet iPhone is still outselling them all put together. It's not about raw power. It's user experience.

lack of flash = no free hulu
 
In any event those stratospheric satisfaction numbers are likely to slide dramatically once people realize how much money is laid out for iPad and the little bit they get in return. I for one was actually hoping iPad could have effectively replaced my laptop, but that can't happen right now. The lack of RAM and ports (one USB would have done nicely) makes the thing useless for anything other than entertaining simple minds. Not that that is bad as I could use a little entertainment myself.

Wow! Sounds like RAM and USB ports are really important to some folks. I have been enjoying my iPad for 6 months, and I can not remember one instance when this was an issue for me........hmmmmm.....Is it possible that folks have different needs/wants in an electronic device? Or, do we believe that the folks currently enjoying their iPad are part of some kind of mass dillusion of customer satisfaction?;)
 
Wow! Sounds like RAM and USB ports are really important to some folks. I have been enjoying my iPad for 6 months, and I can not remember one instance when this was an issue for me........hmmmmm.....Is it possible that folks have different needs/wants in an electronic device? Or, do we believe that the folks currently enjoying their iPad are part of some kind of mass dillusion of customer satisfaction?;)

The people that complain about no CD drive, no USB are missing the point of this device. CD drives are useless on an iPad considering it has no file structure to read a CD. The only thing CD's are still used for is to install software and guess what...iPad uses the App Store to do so. So remind me again what the need for a CD drive?

USB is the same concept. Use online storage. Apple has MobileMe, Google has Dropbox and both are accessible on the iPad. iWork on iPad gives you the ability to edit documents and re-upload them back to your online storage so why would you need a USB port? Including a USB port on an iOS device means you get to deal with all the idiots that want third party support for every USB device that was ever made. Its not needed, not practical and flat out a stupid idea. If you don't see this, you are hopeless.

Moving right along; for all of the consumers that defend netbooks because you feel your $349 watered down PC was justified, why have netbooks sales dropped dramatically since the release of iPad? The customer satisfaction is through the roof and there is no sign of sales slowing. People love multi-touch, they love their iPhones and they love the options iPad offers to do their daily computing needs on their commutes, in their meetings or on their couches.
 
Title should be revised: iPad's Cannibalization ... CONFIRMED.

heh, people sure are suddenly being defensive about iPad sales.

Wait, from what I understood the Best Buy CEO had clarified to say that he was talking about netbooks, not notebooks. In fact all the comparisons I have heard have been about netbooks.

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. :D

As is usual, there's always more to the issue, after we scratch the surface. Frankly, even if the number is "only" 13%, that's not a zero and thus, is a confirmation of the claim of cannibalization.


So 13% bought an iPad instead of a PC.

I wonder how many of the total iPad purchasers will forgo buying/upgrading any computers in their homes within the next year based on their iPad purchase. Obviously, that data would have to be collected a few months after purchase.

My point being that I think most purchasers will find that they will use their desktops, laptops, and portable devices far less as a result of the iPad purchase. This could lead to future cannibalization.

Just a thought.

Or people already own an older notebook or desktop and instead of upgrading the bought an iPad...

Both are good insights, as it is recognizing that computers/iPads are not one time use disposable items (like a hamburger), but carry a utilization lifecycle. With an iPad in the house, I've found it to be is far less compelling to go finally buy a MacBookAir to replace the old 12" G4 PowerBook.


That is right, people with different expectations than the early adopters really would like to have that USB port. This data highlights one very important thing, early adopters don't care about functionality as long as they get the flavor of something new. As it is the iPad is a minimalist machine that isn't going to have broad appeal in the face of the on coming competition. Supporting USB doesn't sound like much of an advantage but it is. Given the correct drivers it makes for an extremely flexible platform. I'm really hoping Apple wises up here and implements a USB port with at least some generic devices support.

Thus sayeth all of the cynical technogeeks (sic) sitting on the fence because they're tempted, but they would also like a little more 'something'.

The first fallacy is that while a punchlist of features does tend to indicate what a product's capability is, it is not 100% deterministic. And Apple has done this enough times that any regular reader here should recognize this as a fallacy and thus resist the temptation to repeat past mistakes.

The second fallacy is of course that there's always something better around the corner. The slippery slope is that one waits forever and thus never gets anything. Granted, it does pay to wait when there's a high rate of change...but even this has its limits - for example, digital cameras are still undergoing a lot of change, who doesn't already own at least one digital camera?

In any event those stratospheric satisfaction numbers are likely to slide dramatically once people realize how much money is laid out for iPad and the little bit they get in return. I for one was actually hoping iPad could have effectively replaced my laptop, but that can't happen right now. The lack of RAM and ports (one USB would have done nicely) makes the thing useless for anything other than entertaining simple minds. Not that that is bad as I could use a little entertainment myself.

Ever heard of the Pareto Principle? How about its expressed as the Law of Diminishing Returns? The iPad doesn't fully replace a real PC, but it does satisfy the 80% (or more) solution, while offering some other distinct features to offset. If that is better/worse is ultimately up to the consumer to decide if its worth it ... and FYI, something that's not evident on "punchlist" comparisons are the comparative worth of interface elements such as battery life and boot-up time.

Of course, this does assume that {iPad = notebook PC}, which is a paradigm that isn't necessarily correct.

I suppose a few minutes from now I will get to enertain myself with early adopters telling me how great iPad is. To head off a few I allready know the devices good points fellas. What I'm trying to say is the satisfaction you guys are rolling in isn't likely to be shared by people wearing clear glasses. Me, myself & I have decided to wait this rev out and wait for rev two and the rest of the market to catch up.

So....you're claiming that you're the only objective person in the whole wide world?? :rolleyes: The heck with your supposedly 'clear' glasses, because your bedroom definitely has a rose-colored mirror.

Why? Because early adopters pay a heavy price, I know because I was one back in the day. We are talking Mac Plus here with a 68000 CPU and eventually an external HD.

Sorry, but you weren't an early adopter with a Mac Plus: the early adopters were those who 2 years earlier bought the 128K Mac, or who bought the 512K (and 512K Enhanced, sort of). Historically, the Mac Plus was really more of the 'Early Mainstream' in the product lifecycle ... particularly if yours was platinum instead of beige.

Old age has taught me the wisdom of two things. 1) Waiting for the market to stabilize is real smart. 2) Buying a computing device that doesn't do everything you need is stupid.

And yet having the wisdom of the ages also means recognizing that no issue is so simplistic and can thus be viewed from multiple perspectives. For example, your #2 suggests that you view the iPad as "less than a Laptop". However, a different viewpoint is that the iPad is also "more than a Kindle".

Neither view is wrong: merely different, and the consumer's decision is based partly upon what their needs are...and one problem if you're after a "Do Everything" device is that you fall into the trap of "Jack of All Trades, Yet Master of None" compromise on product design.

Most importantly a stabilized market will tell you which feature sets are most in demand as the sales will go to devices with those features. It is easy for Apple to win in a market where they have no competition, it is another thing when there are multiple alternatives really trying to innovate.

History tells us that for roughly the past decade, the Tablet market was Windows-based and it was effectively stable. Unfortunately, that stability was because there was little consumer demand for the product that they were selling.

The specific reasons why can be debated, but there's ample evidence to suggest that it was because they attempted to do exactly what you claim to be seeking, which is the specs & features based "Do All". It was because of that and the resulting compromises that it entailed that the result was a product that excelled at nothing. In other words, they failed because they were promoting a product with effectively no strengths and only weaknesses.

If the iPad isn't what you want, then so be it. However, don't come complaining in another 2-5 years that the exact product that you want still doesn't exist ... I'm still waiting for my Flying Car and Gill-based scuba system that were promised to me in Popular Science magazine back in the 1960s.


13% is still a big number, actually.

Any value between 1% and 49% serves to affirm the BestBuy's CEO's comment.

Not going to Cannibalize Netbook and Notebook sales until there is a Flash Solution.

Sorry to be the one to inform you, but it already has cannibalized the sales of competing products, with or without you.


-hh
 
$500 ipad Vs $500 Netbook (Asus 1215N)
1GHz A4 vs 1.83GHz Dual core

Email - faster on the netbook with multiple email clients for options, not to mention much easier to put attachments on your emails, the ipad/iphone/itouch is crap for this, you dont even have a file browser to help you out
Internet - faster and more flexible, netbook can accept tethering from any smartphone (wifi, usb, bluetooth), the netbook will slaughter the ipad in webpage rendering speed, also you have FULL flash and hardware acceleration
Photos - thousands of apps for the netbook including 64bit photoshop
Games - can play source based games as well as lots of games from steam and you have the option of a bluetooth mouse and a full qwerty
Music - with up to 1TB of storage, yeah, the netbook does this better, you also have a choice of hundreds of not thousands of media applications
Video - dont even try and compare the ipad, the netbook does 1080p bluray rips over HDMI, the netbook has a true 16:9 display as well 1366x768
eBooks - you can store millions on the netbook (well maybe not millions but hundreds of thousands), dont like the screen? you can output the text to a larger display if you want (either through hdmi or vga)

you can run ubuntu 64bit on this laptop just fine if you dont like W7 64bit

so what exactly is better about the ipad in each of those categories?

His imagination LOL
 
$500 ipad Vs $500 Netbook (Asus 1215N)
1GHz A4 vs 1.83GHz Dual core

Email - faster on the netbook with multiple email clients for options, not to mention much easier to put attachments on your emails, the ipad/iphone/itouch is crap for this, you dont even have a file browser to help you out
Internet - faster and more flexible, netbook can accept tethering from any smartphone (wifi, usb, bluetooth), the netbook will slaughter the ipad in webpage rendering speed, also you have FULL flash and hardware acceleration
Photos - thousands of apps for the netbook including 64bit photoshop
Games - can play source based games as well as lots of games from steam and you have the option of a bluetooth mouse and a full qwerty
Music - with up to 1TB of storage, yeah, the netbook does this better, you also have a choice of hundreds of not thousands of media applications
Video - dont even try and compare the ipad, the netbook does 1080p bluray rips over HDMI, the netbook has a true 16:9 display as well 1366x768
eBooks - you can store millions on the netbook (well maybe not millions but hundreds of thousands), dont like the screen? you can output the text to a larger display if you want (either through hdmi or vga)

you can run ubuntu 64bit on this laptop just fine if you dont like W7 64bit

so what exactly is better about the ipad in each of those categories?

I think I can shorten your opinion in a phrase widelly used in our country:

More stripes means better adidas...

(this sentence was used by vietnamese sellers when offering six-striped shoes, that looked like ... you know)
 
$500 ipad Vs $500 Netbook (Asus 1215N)
1GHz A4 vs 1.83GHz Dual core

Email - faster on the netbook with multiple email clients for options, not to mention much easier to put attachments on your emails, the ipad/iphone/itouch is crap for this, you dont even have a file browser to help you out
Internet - faster and more flexible, netbook can accept tethering from any smartphone (wifi, usb, bluetooth), the netbook will slaughter the ipad in webpage rendering speed, also you have FULL flash and hardware acceleration
Photos - thousands of apps for the netbook including 64bit photoshop
Games - can play source based games as well as lots of games from steam and you have the option of a bluetooth mouse and a full qwerty
Music - with up to 1TB of storage, yeah, the netbook does this better, you also have a choice of hundreds of not thousands of media applications
Video - dont even try and compare the ipad, the netbook does 1080p bluray rips over HDMI, the netbook has a true 16:9 display as well 1366x768
eBooks - you can store millions on the netbook (well maybe not millions but hundreds of thousands), dont like the screen? you can output the text to a larger display if you want (either through hdmi or vga)

you can run ubuntu 64bit on this laptop just fine if you dont like W7 64bit

so what exactly is better about the ipad in each of those categories?

Netbooks run Windows. /
 
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