iPhone 1.1.1 Cracking Under 3rd Party Development Efforts

[rjwill246]

Hackers will hack the update within a couple of weeks, get their apps running again, fix them for the API tweaks/changes, and 2-3 weeks later Apple will release yet another update that breaks it all. And, contrary to all those silly people that said that hacking was slowing down the update cycle, it will actually speed it up like nothing else, because Apple can't afford to release updates once a month with a feature list like:

• Bug fixes.
• Security updates.
• Breaks third party software.

May be so but from your comments, we are not using the same iPhone and using AppTapp etc. After installing as many of the apps-- about 20-- on my version of the iPhone, I found that none of the games was useful, professional looking and acting, the dictionaries, which could have added value (unlike poorly executed games -- even Tetris flunked the useful and stable test) were sloppy and ultimately worthless, the wallpapers were pap--- for this people are clamouring?? I think not, unless the iPhone user is not the typical Mac user who expects everything to "just work."

Whether the hacking slows or speeds the cycle, in the end, is irrelevant. Who cares? One day, some day, very good apps. will be available. The comment about Mail is laughable, if you are seriously going to compare it to the 3rd party apps that turned up. It is a Testarossa compared to the Model T apps that have surfaced so far- save iToner-- though Mail certainly needs some more work, I expect Apple to make it as functional as we would all like it to be in the not too far future.

I think you might be in love with the hacking concept and not the results!!

 

[JMax1]

... I would kill all humans for a feature like that. Mail is really crummy on the iPhone (by comparison to the other stuff on it). I can't figure out why that stuff is missing, it's not remotely computationally intensive.

If you kill all humans who would you chat with?

 

[shadowfax]

If you kill all humans who would you chat with?

It's a joke from Futurama, when Bender was hitting on some other robot--"Hey pretty mama, wanna kill all humans?" But as far as who I would chat with, there's always myself. Don't tell me you've never IMed yourself:

me: "Hi."
me: "Hi."
me: "What's up?"
me: "What's up?"
me: "Hey, I asked you first!"
me: "Hey, I asked you first!"
me: "Man, are you just repeating everything I say?"
me: "Man, are you just repeating everything I say?"
me: "dang it!"
me: "dang it!"

 

[javaGuru]

If you kill all humans who would you chat with?

LOL, this is too funny!

 

[shadowfax]

I think you might be in love with the hacking concept and not the results!!

Well no. I am looking to the future. I can appreciate that the hackers are doing something much more difficult than developing an application (like Mail) with no real SDK. I find that *some* of the applications are surprisingly stable, given that they are still figuring things out. Have you seen the update cycle on these apps? It's amazingly, blazingly fast (sometimes more than once a week), especially considering that they often add totally new features to the apps with updates, in addition to lots of bug fixes. So that's my point. 3rd party apps are "moving," and they aren't remotely as bad as you say (well, some of them are). But Apollo IM/MobileChat? are you kidding? Lights off? You use really bad examples, Tetris is pretty crummy.

 

[pedroistheman]

This is just what's going to happen, the old cat and mouse. Hackers will hack the update within a couple of weeks, get their apps running again, fix them for the API tweaks/changes, and 2-3 weeks later Apple will release yet another update that breaks it all. And, contrary to all those silly people that said that hacking was slowing down the update cycle, it will actually speed it up like nothing else, because Apple can't afford to release updates once a month with a feature list like:

• Bug fixes.
• Security updates.
• Breaks third party software.

That's real. This "cat and mouse game" is only going to speed up apple with some real improvements on the iphone. I can't wait, but is there still a risk of getting your iphone bricked w/ installing 3rd party apps and then updating?

 

[dustywaffles]

Now this has no reference to anyone who has posted anything in this latest thread (so rant about why did i even post this) but I just don't get why people think that the iPhone has to be opened up by Apple. Why does everyone think Apple is an open source software/hardware provider? They are not. They are and always have been quite the opposite. Yes, they have most definitely used open source code to their advantage but never supported their bundled package as a base for it. It seems the entire CE community is against Apple on every step they take to further their iPhone platform.

I really do not mean this to be an argument starter, it is truly just an expression of my bafflement regarding this piece of consumer electronics platform. While I do think 3rd party development is a good thing, it is completely ludicrous to think Apple should embrace it against their own terms. I repeat, 3rd party development is good. But if such applications are erased due to a progressive update from the software team at Apple we shouldn't blame Apple at all.

Well... You just don't market a device as a smart phone and make it so it does less than a 50$ phone. Heck I've had free phones that let me download games and put a background on my home screen. Granted the things the iPhone does do, it does better.

You don't release a device with tons of features missing, things that early adopters would reasonably expect to be patched in within a few months, and then instead of adding these things you give people another way for them to give you money.

You don't release wireless ITMS when its been 4 months and people can't send a picture message, use a to do list, or have anything but a black background for home screen.

When the novelty wares off its astounding how little this phone actually does and how constrictive it feels.

At first I honestly didn't care who or where the features I wanted came from and I didn't mind buying them from apple. I just wanted my phone to do what I wanted it to do.

But now I think apple is getting a little to greedy. Missing features should have been a priority, not a music store. I don't trust apple enough to be their customer.

I hate my iphone, Im selling it and buying a real smart phone that has thousands of applications, customization, and an snes emulator. Seriously why wait 4 months for a freaking to do list, or have to freaking hack your phone to change an icon. Touch OS is way better than WM but geeze its not worth it anymore.

I hope hackers prevail for those of you who are sticking with the iphone, their the only ones who will give you what you want. I'm sick of iphone, I'm sick of itunes and DRM, I'm sick of all this restriction and control, and I'm sick of apple. Never buying their stuff again.

I think SJ wanted to make an ipod that had a phone on it, while everyone else wanted a phone that had an ipod on it. There's a big difference between the two.

 

[3282872]

Will anything lead to owners with bricked iPhones getting their software restored? Or is that already possible? I know Apple released software to its stores so Mac Geniuses can determine if hacking was involved, thus refusing to restore the device. As this is the case, can people with bricked iPhones get their phones back?

 

[shadowfax]

That's real. This "cat and mouse game" is only going to speed up apple with some real improvements on the iphone. I can't wait, but is there still a risk of getting your iphone bricked w/ installing 3rd party apps and then updating?

No, not if you're smart. You just have to restore the OLD, unhacked firmware before updating it (in the worst case). You didn't even have to do that with 1.1.1 update. So far, the only brickings have been mysterious (i.e. irrespective of hacks of any kind) or from baseband unlocked phones.

 

[Stella]

<sarcasm>

Haven't you heard? its not Apple's fault at all. Nope. Its AT&T forcing Apple to close the iPhone up tighter than a.... ( I'll leave the rest of your imagination ).


</sarcasm>

Well... You just don't market a device as a smart phone and make it so it does less than a 50$ phone. Heck I've had free phones that let me download games and put a background on my home screen.

<snip>

 

[sblasl]

Apple nor Steve Jobs ever marketed, called, or alluded to the iPhone as a SmartPhone. When Jobs made the announcement introducing the iPhone he questioned why SmartPhones were called "Smart" Phones.

Anyone who thinks that the iPhone is a SmartPhone or a PDA is wishful thinking on their part.

Well... You just don't market a device as a smart phone and make it so it does less than a 50$ phone. Heck I've had free phones that let me download games and put a background on my home screen. Granted the things the iPhone does do, it does better.

 

[sparkpoint11]

Realistic Expectations...

You have no evidence that, across the board, Apple is treating its developers with disrespect. That inference is simply childish and does not port to a mature and ubiquitous relationship between business partners.

He is obviously only talking about Apple disrespecting their developers in regards to blocking them from development on the iPhone. You are the one who expanded his original intention to mean "across the board".

You're assumption that half-arsed applications are good for the consumer is probably based on the input you are getting from the complainers here, a vast minority of iPhone users. Properly designed 3rd party apps would be great and here the assumptions are more compelling.
Of all the apps I put on the iPhone only iToner worked as it should. The others, were, by and large, buggy and incomplete, including the dictionaries, which could have been useful but were a drag on the system and were very buggy.

Do not take this as an insult, but I am wondering if you are a developer/programmer or have any development experience. The reason I ask this is because it seems fairly obvious why many (not all) of the third party applications developed so far haven't been real outstanding or "half-arsed" in your opinion. Have you ever attempted to put together a home-gym in a dark garage? Because that is exactly these developers are trying to do.
Although the iPhone does indeed run a version of OSX, it's heavily modified.
They have absolutely no documentation on the system, no reference material for the new APIs, no clue as to which components have been modified, etc. And on top of that, once they have something semi-functional, they have no real way to debug and profile their application other than trial and error and allowing people to download beta software and help to locate the bugs.
Finally, only a tiny fraction of developers have attempted to write any of these applications, and certainly not larger companies with financial interests and the resources required to invest alot of time and manpower into the projects.

I, myself, find it pretty incredible that even with all of these obstacles, some of the efforts so far are actually pretty good. You certainly can't expect ANYTHING CLOSE to perfection or anything reliable and polished.
BUT, what they have provided is some insight into the creativity and innovation that can be expected with a proper development community.

What is needed is a careful deployment of 3rd party apps that have Apple's blessing. They will work and will be professional. That is not to say that the huge amount of work by the "dev" team won't produce some great programs in the future but so far that has not been the case-- save the famous unlocking efforts.

Like many have said, it would be a great idea for apple to create a community of third party developers that have access to a review process for screening applications for quality, security, and reliability. They could then create an easy download and install/uninstall process through itunes and everyone wins.

 

[Stella]

Then SJ should have never compared iPhone against smartphones.

Remember, in the iPhone intro SJ showed a slide containing 4 or 5 smartphones. From that moment onwards, people will think iPhone as a smartphone and compare against.

The iPhone is not smart, in fact, its dumb ( apart from the UI ) and can do no more than any other phone out there .

Apple nor Steve Jobs ever marketed, called, or alluded to the iPhone as a SmartPhone. When Jobs made the announcement introducing the iPhone he questioned why SmartPhones were called "Smart" Phones.

Anyone who thinks that the iPhone is a SmartPhone or a PDA is wishful thinking on their part.

 

[dustywaffles]

Apple nor Steve Jobs ever marketed, called, or alluded to the iPhone as a SmartPhone. When Jobs made the announcement introducing the iPhone he questioned why SmartPhones were called "Smart" Phones.

Anyone who thinks that the iPhone is a SmartPhone or a PDA is wishful thinking on their part.

Your right it's totally wishful thinking to think the iphone would let me customize my home screen with something besides black, or that ical would let me have a to do list, or I'd be able to delete more than one e-mail at a time.

It was so stupid for me to think that they might add some of these missing features instead putting out an update that added a crappy music store and locked out the only people who tried to make this piece more functional and fun.


"iPhone introduces the most revolutionary user interface since the mouse, the most advanced software ever engineered, and true state-of-the-art technology that will change the way you think about a mobile device. With over 300 patents, iPhone is years ahead of any other phone available today."

There is absolutely nothing in this statement on apple's site to make me think that the iphone would be years ahead of any other phone or that it would change the way I think about a mobile device.

When you type 'smartphone' in the search bar on apple's site the iPhone totally wasn't at the top of the search results. iPhone never targeted smart phone users or has been called a smart phone by dozens of huge publications which also never compared it to other smart phones.

I should have known what apple meant was that even though the iphone doesn't do half as much as other similarly priced mobile devices or even as much as a 50$ music phone, what it does do it does very well. Cause thats the angle apple took in its advertising, right?

I'm sorry if this sarcasm irritates you, but you just took one part of my argument totally out of context to play semantics with me about something that wasn't even my main point. Who cares if apple never officially called the iphone a smartphone. They let everyone think it would have similar capabilities. They had adds for accessories right on their site that referred to it as a smart phone.

My point was that I expected more from my revolutionary mobile device than a cool interface with half the features of the piece of crap I got for free when I resigned my contract. I waited 4 months for a stupid wallpaper or to do list and got a music store that comes hooked right up to my bank account instead and its a huge slap to the face.

 

[aristobrat]

Who cares if apple never officially called the iphone a smartphone. They let everyone think it would have similar capabilities. They had adds for accessories right on their site that referred to it as a smart phone.

For someone who waited four months and was as familiar with the iPhone website as you, I'm wondering how you missed these two key areas, as they list virtually every feature and then visually demonstrate you how it works.

Both areas were up there for you to click on before the iPhone was launched.

With the iPhone pretty much "fully demonstrated" for you before it went out sale, how exactly did you "expect more"?

 

[Stella]

Your right it's totally wishful ....

<snip waffle>

So once again, why did Apple compare iPhone against smartphones?

Why did Apple present a slide of 4 or 5 existing smartphones?

You still haven't answered.

PS. The only thing the iPhone is ahead of is the UI, and nothing else. It does not show other functionality beyond any other phone on the market.

 

[TurboSC]

Man I hope the dev teams aren't giving up and pushing forward full speed.

I know the teams that are focused on unlocking aren't so hot and heavy anymore seeing how the first iteration turned out.

 

[3282872]

For someone who waited four months and was as familiar with the iPhone website as you, I'm wondering how you missed these two key areas, as they list virtually every feature and then visually demonstrate you how it works.

Both areas were up there for you to click on before the iPhone was launched.

With the iPhone pretty much "fully demonstrated" for you before it went out sale, how exactly did you "expect more"?

Well, I guess you're right, we shouldn't expect more from Apple.

 

[pilotError]

With all the reaction, I'm a little surprised over the lack of appreciation for all these hacking efforts.

With Leopard so close, I'm wondering how much effort folks should be going through to get this thing opened again.

It would really suck to have to start all over again in another 3 weeks.

For all those doing the Hacks, I extend a big Thanks.

 

[Stella]

Well, I guess you're right, we shouldn't expect more from Apple.

No we shouldn't.

We should think that Apple will try to get every penny out of the consumer as possible. We should think iPhone == negativity. Any thing that Apple can charge for, they will charge for. Ring tones, third party apps. I'm surprised they haven't started charging for background ( wallpaper ) images, yet.

With all the reaction, I'm a little surprised over the lack of appreciation for all these hacking efforts.

For the those who recongise and understand the term "consumer freedom" I think there is a lot of appreciation. For those Apple apologists, there isn't - hacking to make the iPhone open, for these people , is the devils work.

 

[djgamble]

Why assume?

Why is everyone assuming that the iPhone will be cracked? This current one shows that people with older iPhones might be able to get access by doing things before doing an update.

There has been no success with the iPod touch, and also on a heavy note there was absolutely no success with the 2nd gen nano (from the iPod Linux boys).

The drive has been encrypted, and someone is going to have to work out how to break the encryption without really knowing what it is because they can't have access to the drive in its encrypted state.

I wouldn't assume that it will always be cat and mouse with people finding gaping holes every month and Apple scampering to patch them. People have been working on that 2nd gen nano for ages with no results.

 

[Stella]

Don't be so naive.
Anything can be cracked, if there is the will. There is enough interest in the iPhone to make this happen.

The file system on the iPhone can already been accessed ( IFAIK )- that work is complete.

Why is everyone assuming that the iPhone will be cracked? This current one shows that people with older iPhones might be able to get access by doing things before doing an update.

There has been no success with the iPod touch, and also on a heavy note there was absolutely no success with the 2nd gen nano (from the iPod Linux boys).

The drive has been encrypted, and someone is going to have to work out how to break the encryption without really knowing what it is because they can't have access to the drive in its encrypted state.

I wouldn't assume that it will always be cat and mouse with people finding gaping holes every month and Apple scampering to patch them. People have been working on that 2nd gen nano for ages with no results.

 

[aristobrat]

Well, I guess you're right, we shouldn't expect more from Apple.

My point was simply that since Apple -- before the iPhone even went on sale -- stated (and then visually demonstrated) pretty much everything that it could do, I just don't understand how anyone could try to make the point "but Apple compared it to a smartphone, so I bought it expecting it to be just like a smartphone, and it's not -- I expected more".

 

[PDE]

My point was simply that since Apple -- before the iPhone even went on sale -- stated (and then visually demonstrated) pretty much everything that it could do, I just don't understand how anyone could try to make the point "but Apple compared it to a smartphone, so I bought it expecting it to be just like a smartphone, and it's not -- I expected more".

Didn't Steve Jobs also say that Apple would be adding lots of features with software updates? Isn't that the appeal of the iphone - that it can be updated easily with new functionality without having to worry about external hardware like buttons etc? Apple clearly made it sounds like we should expect more and that more was on its way. that's one of the reasons everybody is putting up with quite a limited feature set compared to other phones: because they expect that to be fixed by continuous updates.

 

[Marcjcd]

My point was simply that since Apple -- before the iPhone even went on sale -- stated (and then visually demonstrated) pretty much everything that it could do, I just don't understand how anyone could try to make the point "but Apple compared it to a smartphone, so I bought it expecting it to be just like a smartphone, and it's not -- I expected more".

We understand your point, but are you then saying that YOUR expectations of the iPhone is that it would have a mail application that doesnt allow you to delete more then one item at a time? Were YOUR expectations of the iPhone that it would have a messaging application that is vastly inferior? Were YOUR expectations of the iPhone that it wouldnt have even the basic applications that every, EVERY current cell phone has. Yes, never on the site were the words "smartphone" used, but arent you just playing with words here now? Using your logic that they never claimed this to be a "smartphone" then I would guess you would call this a "dumbphone" since it is lacking items that a $19.99 pay-as-you-go phone purchased at 7-11 has.

Someone earlier on another post maybe said it best... Jobs set out to make the best IPOD ever that happens to also make calls when he should have produced the best cell phone that IS ALSO an IPOD... because THATS WHAT HE MARKETED!