iPhone 1.1.1 Cracking Under 3rd Party Development Efforts

[matticus008]

"Stripped down"? When did Apple marketing call it "stripped down"?

Right about when Steve Jobs talked about how they'd "slimmed it down" and gotten rid of "unnecessary" things to make it fit in a smaller space. A little common sense is in order--obviously you're not dealing with a full-blown system here.

No, you are missing the point. It's not about a particular feature, it's about tons of missing basic features, none of which have been added.

And may never be. Some of them I think are pretty important, others you think are pretty important, but maybe none of them that Apple things are important.

Apparently, that was "unreasonable": Apple sold us a car with three wheels and no car audio; after three months they generously sent us a funky hood ornament instead of the missing wheel OR stereo.

If that's what you think of the iPhone, you obviously should not have bought one. If it was that deficient, you should have waited until it had all four wheels and the stereo. Full stop.

So what? Let me get this straight: Your point is that Apple can't release an API now because it is based on Leopard stuff that is known now and has been for months, but wasn't set in stone one year ago? Wonderful logic!

No, the point is that getting the Leopard tools out the door is a prerequisite to a finalized iPhone SDK. The iPhone's software, as shipped, is based on software that is over a year out of date. In order to release a finalized SDK now, you would have to release a software update that replaced the iPhone's OS with a more finalized form (which they appear to have done, at least in part, with 1.1.1) and then release an SDK based upon that new software (and on other finalized Leopard components, since a number of functions are clearly tied to Leopard--Mail, Core Animation, and Safari, for starters).

Umm. Of course?! What would you do? Ignore the early start kit, all the developer builds and resources and start your work when you get your hands on a release copy?

Yeah, when you're dealing with a software platform that is unstable and undefined and hasn't even progressed to the stage of public developer builds. Why write software that you're going to have to rewrite in a month? You seem to be glossing over the fact that the iPhone software as recent as 1.0.2 is very different from what was introduced in 1.1.1. Many applications just don't work even on the post-jailbreak units. Further, it's just not your call at what point Apple deems a platform mature enough to release development tools for it. They'll do so when they choose to.

Leopard development tools certainly weren't released with the earliest builds of Leopard--things had changed quite a bit by the time of the first developer preview, and professional developers know better than to release production software based on beta tools and a beta OS.

 

[dustywaffles]

It's a bad analogy that still confuses assumption and expectation. Please let that sink in, because each successive post fails to address that fundamental problem.

I have yet to see a phone that allows you to customize backgrounds in menu screens. You can change the iPhone's background image, but just like Dashboard or Front Row or the Programs menu of just about any phone I've ever come across, the background is not always customizable and the wallpaper doesn't show in all screens.

It's not an attack. You volunteered your "logic" with a series of unconnected statements that form no conclusion at all. I'm trying to get you to elucidate the steps between your statements so you'll see that it's no rule of logic that moves you along--it's guesses and conjecture. You're trying at mmp, but not establishing a truth value or a relative link.

There is no foregone conclusion from your statement, and therefore no expectation. This is roughly the fourth time I've attempted to get you to see your leaps. Like many others, though, you keep skipping the fundamentals and racing ahead to your point.

If you don't build your house on a strong foundation, it's not going to stand.

You’re seeing these jumps because you’re looking at an inductive argument as if it were a deductive argument.

I’m not constructing a deductive line of logic because I’m not trying to prove anything that requires it. I’m not trying to say I was mislead.

I think what we are debating here is the word expect, by which I simply mean belief that something will happen.

What happened is people bought a device for the features it had right out of the box and also it potential. We all knew there would be updates and added features.

Now a lot of people are ticked about what apple has and hasn’t done. Your point is that this is unreasonable because apple promised nothing specific. Which is a totally valid point.

I think the people that angry about the lack of a specific feature that they wanted added should think long and hard about that point.

What I am angry about is the way apple has handled the updates in general and I don’t think you point applies to that. When there are a few things that a device doesn’t have, Things tons of people who own the device want, things that are basic, and the company keeps adding features to the device but keeps passing over these basic things it is irritating. Just because I am irritated does not mean I’m part of a group that worked themselves into a frenzy of wild expectations.

Early adopters a device that will evolve are aware they don’t know what it will look like in a few months. They are taking a risk. They know this and they take this risk partly because they have faith in the company putting the product out. It is totally possible for that company to mismanage the evolution of a device and piss a bunch of people off without breaking any specific promises.

I kept reusing the example of backgrounds because I was missing the fact that you were interpreting ‘expect’ different then me and I was making an inductive argument that it reasonable to expect some specific things. I’m not made about the absence of any particular feature.

I’m mad because I think the way apple is evolving the iPhone is out of touch. The closest I come to being ticked about the absence of a particular feature is the backgrounds. Not because I think I was lead to believe they would add that, but because when I learned about it I found it’s not even something they have to add, just enable. Apple just doesn’t want me to have anything but black on my home screen and that pisses me off. Phones are a very personal thing.

 

[vic32amg]

You’re seeing these jumps because you’re looking at an inductive argument as if it were a deductive argument.

I’m not constructing a deductive line of logic because I’m not trying to prove anything that requires it. I’m not trying to say I was mislead.

I think what we are debating here is the word expect, by which I simply mean belief that something will happen.

What happened is people bought a device for the features it had right out of the box and also it potential. We all knew there would be updates and added features.

Now a lot of people are ticked about what apple has and hasn’t done. Your point is that this is unreasonable because apple promised nothing specific. Which is a totally valid point.

I think the people that angry about the lack of a specific feature that they wanted added should think long and hard about that point.

What I am angry about is the way apple has handled the updates in general and I don’t think you point applies to that. When there are a few things that a device doesn’t have, Things tons of people who own the device want, things that are basic, and the company keeps adding features to the device but keeps passing over these basic things it is irritating. Just because I am irritated does not mean I’m part of a group that worked themselves into a frenzy of wild expectations.

Early adopters a device that will evolve are aware they don’t know what it will look like in a few months. They are taking a risk. They know this and they take this risk partly because they have faith in the company putting the product out. It is totally possible for that company to mismanage the evolution of a device and piss a bunch of people off without breaking any specific promises.

I kept reusing the example of backgrounds because I was missing the fact that you were interpreting ‘expect’ different then me and I was making an inductive argument that it reasonable to expect some specific things. I’m not made about the absence of any particular feature.

I’m mad because I think the way apple is evolving the iPhone is out of touch. The closest I come to being ticked about the absence of a particular feature is the backgrounds. Not because I think I was lead to believe they would add that, but because when I learned about it I found it’s not even something they have to add, just enable. Apple just doesn’t want me to have anything but black on my home screen and that pisses me off. Phones are a very personal thing.

why not start a thread where you can argue about this stuff. instead of wasting this for crazy talk.

#1 lurker.

later

 

[matticus008]

You’re seeing these jumps because you’re looking at an inductive argument as if it were a deductive argument.

I'm required to, since an expectation cannot derive from induction; inductive "logic" produces at best merely an assumption.

I think what we are debating here is the word expect, by which I simply mean belief that something will happen.

That's an assumption. An expectation is a consequential assumption. Certainly, this is the biggest issue that clouds our discussion.

In a simplified continuum, you have:
Hope -> Assumption -> Expectation

An expectation is a solid conclusion based on requirements or on deterministic logic. Inductive arguments are outside the bounds of reason.

I am not saying that it is inappropriate to hope or to assume features will be included at some point. They are reasonable and appropriate guesses; they are not conclusions, nor are they based on solid logic and therefore cannot be rational expectations. But in order to be blameworthy, one must fail an expectation--not an assumption.

Just because I am irritated does not mean I’m part of a group that worked themselves into a frenzy of wild expectations.

I don't understand how Apple is the cause of the irritation.

It is totally possible for that company to mismanage the evolution of a device and piss a bunch of people off without breaking any specific promises.

The people have pissed themselves off. If you had no rational reason to expect something, it's understandable to be disappointed, but it is no one's fault but the individual's. It is not Apple's fault that they released a product that isn't fit for everyone.

At any rate, my point was merely to get you to clarify and strengthen your argument, which you've now done. Thoughtful and solid arguments benefit everyone.

 

[kyrow123]

I'm required to, since an expectation cannot derive from induction; inductive "logic" produces at best merely an assumption.

That's an assumption. An expectation is a consequential assumption. Certainly, this is the biggest issue that clouds our discussion.

In a simplified continuum, you have:
Hope -> Assumption -> Expectation

An expectation is a solid conclusion based on requirements or on deterministic logic. Inductive arguments are outside the bounds of reason.

I am not saying that it is inappropriate to hope or to assume features will be included at some point. They are reasonable and appropriate guesses; they are not conclusions, nor are they based on solid logic and therefore cannot be rational expectations. But in order to be blameworthy, one must fail an expectation--not an assumption.

I don't understand how Apple is the cause of the irritation.

The people have pissed themselves off. If you had no rational reason to expect something, it's understandable to be disappointed, but it is no one's fault but the individual's. It is not Apple's fault that they released a product that isn't fit for everyone.

At any rate, my point was merely to get you to clarify and strengthen your argument, which you've now done. Thoughtful and solid arguments benefit everyone.

We all have assumed that certain features should have been in the phone and we based this rationale on prior evidence (i.e. mainly other phones we have used over the years). To expect Apple to meet all of those assumptions is a bit unrealistic, since they are a business who will never be able to me what I want and what you want as consumers.

What we are left with is many features we wish will be updated at some point in the future. There is no telling that all of our wishes will be met, but hopefully the future updates will satisfy a majority of Apple's user base, which is what such a large company as Apple can do.

The only thing we can expect, is not rely on Apple to meet all of our wishes.