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iPhone 11 Pro iPhone 11 Pro (Max) - PWM - Eye Strain

seaw said:
Hi,

whoever gets his new iPhone 11 Pro first... Could you be so kind and check how the new phones handle dimming the OLED display? I would love to buy one of the new phones but I tested the X and the XS and both gave me headaches.

Thanks
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You must be getting headaches thinking you just spent $1000 for this? In iPhone 11 Pro PWM (Post World Modern or whatever it is) you will feel the same headaches because the prices are still same. If you want less headache then go for iphone 11 which is less expensive.
 
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Well I hate to say it but the backs of my eyes are starting to feel sore and tired and my vision feels screwy. Like my eyes want to unfocus until I blink and force focus. Using Pro Max and full disclosure I’m wearing contact lenses. 😵

Had headaches with X, eye fatigue with XS Max, so experiencing this issue again with Pro Max means Apples implementation of OLED is clearly not for me. It’s a damn shame.

As before I can see a kind of warm yellow splodge/shadow that shifts and shimmers when I move the display around slightly (True Tone off). It’s very subtle but noticeable. Imagine it like a graduated circle, warmer in the middle and fading out to the edges - this is the area of my focus. As i tilt or move the phone very slightly the warm colour circle moves and the other half of display gets a little cooler and paler. As this shift occurs my eyes sees this effect like a shimmer of yellow, reds and blues depending on screen content. Always seeing the warm yellow circle. It’s very noticeable on this forum for example as there are pale reds/maroons, pale blues and the whites that are very warm, almost pale yellow.

The PWM and small colour shifting is clearly messing with my eyes in a big way.
 
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As long as Apple sells their fantastic LED phones, I don't care. But what about next year, when they are supposedly going to all OLED? What then? Dammit. I don't want an Android phone.
 
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Here you can see a video of the Pro Max in slo mo. This is an extreme example because the screen has dimmed itself from 90% brightness but it shows extreme diagonal lines/strobing. This is what our eyes are seeing whether it affects your eyes or not.

Google drive video one link

Second video shows the background strobing/flashing and has faint diagonal lines. This is not as noticeable as screen has not dimmed but again this visual effect is stimulating my eyes at least in a negative way.

Google drive video two link
 
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FYI! Apologize for the long text in advance.
Actually PWM affects everyone, and it’s not healthy at all. The difference is that some notice it (headaches, eye strain and etc) others don’t, but the negative effect still takes place even without most noticing. And apparently it even affects your brain, due to the intense flickering that your eyes and brain always registers(even without some of you noticing), something like radiation(not as bad off course), you don’t notice, but it still harms you.
There are limits to the negative effect. 5-10% is considered normal to max, that is what lightbulbs, LED screens (laptops, tv) and other light emitting elements. Everything over that is from borderline to not healthy, depends how much over.
The iPhone 11 Pro Oled is better that the one in Xs/Xs Max, it mostly even stays in the 5-15% range when above 30-25% brightness, but as soon as you go below 25% brightness, the PWM is over a 100%. The regular iPhone 11 stays below 2-3% all the way.
 
Besides PWM that has been discussed a lot over the years in regards to eye strain, but can the projector other illuminator on the front of the phone that frequently flashes in your face cause any eye strain for some?
 
asjdwf said:
So I’m confused. Is this really bad for my eyes? Is this a deal breaker?
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I can only state the facts that I know from articles, videos, forums and consumer reports, taking that into account, Yes it’s not good for your health. At the same time I cannot say how much of an impact it has on ones health, I think it depends on a specific person, some watch tv close up and play games all the time, etc and nothing happens to their vision, at the same time as some have to get glasses from even moderate amount of tv time, coz their eyesight gets worse.🤷‍♂️
The blue light emitted by regular LCD screens is also quit harmful, but things like true tone, night shift, etc are designed to minimize that. Same as DC dimming is used to minimize the PWM in OLEDS, and keep it in the 5-10% range, but neither Apple nor Samsung(the iPhone display manufacturer)have implemented it, coz it might have a negative effect on the color reproduction. OnePlus, Huawei, Xiaomi and some other Android manufacturers have unlocked this option in their latest updates to their OLED(AMOLED) phones. This feature can be turned off or on. There are videos on YouTube that show, how fast the PWM goes down, from over a 100% to 10% with DC dimming turned on.
For me at the moment, the regular 11 display seems like a better(safer)choice(even though the resolution is lower and bezels are bigger, it’s better to be safe than sorry🙂), coz I, personally, get sore eyes from the iPhone X and XsMax display, especially with white colors (it’s like razor blades in my eyes). Haven’t tried the 11 Pro for over 10 minutes, but on some forums people say they they still get eye strain after 30 or so minutes of use, especially when in darker environment, that is probably when the brightness goes below 25%.
 
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babygirl44 said:
Does privacy screen protector help prevent or minimise eye strain?
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I’m no expert, but I’d say, that it will do nothing. It cannot block out the flickering. The only thing you can do, if you really wanna use the iPhone 11 Pro is keep the brightness always above 25-30%, that will keep the PWM in somewhat acceptable range of 5-10/15% and when you need to turn down the brightness even more, use the Reduce the white point feature in iOS.
This will apply a dark filter over your display, making it look darker, at the same time as keep the brightness at the prior set level.
From your home screen search “Reduce white point” > Turn that on.
Then you will have to create a shortcut to turn the filter on every time you don’t want the internal phone brightness to go below 25-30%. Keep in mind that in order for that to work you will have to manually adjust the internal phone brightness, otherwise auto brightness will lower the internal brightness down and all of this turns out useless.
Search for Accessibility Shortcut > Tap it > select Reduce White Point.
This toggles the Reduce White Point with a triple-click of the side button (the Sleep/Wake button), dimming your screen by applying a filter to lower the PWM on your iPhone. This is only for the iPhone 11 Pro, coz Apple tweaked the Display, made it better, so that PWM is not as bad till the brightness of 25%, with Xs/Xs Max the brightness level of 50% is when the high PWM % kicks in.
You can also assign a shortcut button to the Control Center.
 
Would I have noticed pwm from my Pro Max the first day I had it? Or would this come on later? I’m on day 14 of having it and I’ve felt strange and kind of dizzy the last three days.
 
tonybarnaby said:
My vision is fine. PWM eyestrain doesn't mean something is wrong with you. Some people don't get any ill effects from it, while others do.
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That’s why I’m trying to figure out if what I’m dealing with is in fact from the phone or something else. What does PWM feel like?
 
asjdwf said:
That’s why I’m trying to figure out if what I’m dealing with is in fact from the phone or something else. What does PWM feel like?
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For many, the common complaints were pain in the backs of their eyes, general headaches, tired and grainy feeling eyes, and nausea.

(which by the way are also symptoms of anxiety lol which I think is what put me in my mess in the first place. Heck, even pollen/allergies cause those same feelings. I think for those truly affected they experience the eye pain, or headaches, or nausea within 5 min of looking at their screen and it’s every time)
 
jimmy_uk said:
Well I hate to say it but the backs of my eyes are starting to feel sore and tired and my vision feels screwy. Like my eyes want to unfocus until I blink and force focus. Using Pro Max and full disclosure I’m wearing contact lenses. 😵

Had headaches with X, eye fatigue with XS Max, so experiencing this issue again with Pro Max means Apples implementation of OLED is clearly not for me. It’s a damn shame.

As before I can see a kind of warm yellow splodge/shadow that shifts and shimmers when I move the display around slightly (True Tone off). It’s very subtle but noticeable. Imagine it like a graduated circle, warmer in the middle and fading out to the edges - this is the area of my focus. As i tilt or move the phone very slightly the warm colour circle moves and the other half of display gets a little cooler and paler. As this shift occurs my eyes sees this effect like a shimmer of yellow, reds and blues depending on screen content. Always seeing the warm yellow circle. It’s very noticeable on this forum for example as there are pale reds/maroons, pale blues and the whites that are very warm, almost pale yellow.

The PWM and small colour shifting is clearly messing with my eyes in a big way.
Click to expand...
That was my experience playing with it in the Apple store for about an hour. I had heard about this issue and wanted to test my reaction before buying it. I subsequently had to go with the 11. It's still a great phone and I saved a few hundred bucks, but the pro was my first choice. I'm just not sure what to do when LCD eventually disappears as an alternative choice for the iPhone. Maybe their implementation of oled will be refined by then...?
 
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Tofupunch said:
That was my experience playing with it in the Apple store for about an hour. I had heard about this issue and wanted to test my reaction before buying it. I subsequently had to go with the 11. It's still a great phone and I saved a few hundred bucks, but the pro was my first choice. I'm just not sure what to do when LCD eventually disappears as an alternative choice for the iPhone. Maybe their implementation of oled will be refined by then...?
Click to expand...
How has your experience been with the 11 so far? My Pro Max went back today and I miss it dearly. It really damaged the love I had for my 8 Plus. I still don’t know If I truly had PWM but I’m done with the buy and return crap. I’m torn between the 11 and 8 Plus. Do you have an opinion on that? Sad I’d lose a telephoto lens, 401ppi, and the sweet 16:9 aspect ratio of the 8 plus. But the 11 has a fantastic main camera, night mode, spatial audio, etc. I’m torn and taking all insights.
 
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ARizz44 said:
How has your experience been with the 11 so far? My Pro Max went back today and I miss it dearly. It really damaged the love I had for my 8 Plus. I still don’t know If I truly had PWM but I’m done with the buy and return crap. I’m torn between the 11 and 8 Plus. Do you have an opinion on that? Sad I’d lose a telephoto lens, 401ppi, and the sweet 16:9 aspect ratio of the 8 plus. But the 11 has a fantastic main camera, night mode, spatial audio, etc. I’m torn and taking all insights.
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Depends how long you plan to keep whatever you buy. I had to go from an 8+ to a max and then back to an 8+ due to PWM. This was a month before the XR launched, or I would have gone XR. I am typing this on my 6.2" Motorola phone with a pathetic 720p screen and it's perfectly legible. The people who say the 11 screen is bad are being anal or trying to stir the pot. In some ways the 8+ does look better than the 11, but it really depends on what you want.

If you plan to get 2+ years from your next phone, I think it's gotta be an 11. The 8+ is solid, but the 11 is better in more ways than it is inferior to the 8+. I still have my 8+ because I'm waiting for next year to see if anything changes. If not, I'll probably move on. Although I set up my wife's 11 pro for over an hour and had no headache, so I may look into that. There are some bad ass LCD Android phones if you are willing to go that route.
 
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tonybarnaby said:
Depends how long you plan to keep whatever you buy. I had to go from an 8+ to a max and then back to an 8+ due to PWM. This was a month before the XR launched, or I would have gone XR. I am typing this on my 6.2" Motorola phone with a pathetic 720p screen and it's perfectly legible. The people who say the 11 screen is bad are being anal or trying to stir the pot. In some ways the 8+ does look better than the 11, but it really depends on what you want.

If you plan to get 2+ years from your next phone, I think it's gotta be an 11. The 8+ is solid, but the 11 is better in more ways than it is inferior to the 8+. I still have my 8+ because I'm waiting for next year to see if anything changes. If not, I'll probably move on. Although I set up my wife's 11 pro for over an hour and had no headache, so I may look into that. There are some bad ass LCD Android phones if you are willing to go that route.
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Hey brother. Great response. I don’t dabble with android because I have enough indecisiveness with one platform. Android would be the end of me lol.

I only plan to use the phone I decide on, until the next launch. Whether that be my 8 Plus, 11, or attempt number three at the Pro Max 🤦🏻‍♂️ I had always been an annual upgrade until pwm came into play. Using the 8 Plus for 2 Years in a row was new territory for me.

I need to just let the Pro Max go and stick to LCD for the next year. As long as I can use one of the 2020 phones pain free, I’ll upgrade. Cost is not a concern so future trade in value doesn’t honestly weigh on my mind. I just want a phone that will make me the most ‘content and at peace’ the next 11 months (feeling now the Pro Max cannot be that phone even though it was the phone).
 
ARizz44 said:
Hey brother. Great response. I don’t dabble with android because I have enough indecisiveness with one platform. Android would be the end of me lol.

I only plan to use the phone I decide on, until the next launch. Whether that be my 8 Plus, 11, or attempt number three at the Pro Max 🤦🏻‍♂️ I had always been an annual upgrade until pwm came into play. Using the 8 Plus for 2 Years in a row was new territory for me.

I need to just let the Pro Max go and stick to LCD for the next year. As long as I can use one of the 2020 phones pain free, I’ll upgrade. Cost is not a concern so future trade in value doesn’t honestly weigh on my mind. I just want a phone that will make me the most ‘content and at peace’ the next 11 months (feeling now the Pro Max cannot be that phone even though it was the phone).
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The 11 will be newer and exciting for a bit. You still get a lot of the upgrades from the pro. It all comes down to how text looks to you. Some people claim they can't read it as well, while others don't notice or mind it. I personally am staying with my 8+ because I can handle OLED Android phones for some reason, so I also have one of those. If I wanted just one LCD iPhone, it would be the 11 without question.
 
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