iPhone 12 iPhone 12 is flicker free(DC dimming)!

[jimmy_uk]

Got the iPhone Pro 6.1" yesterday...

This panel is effortless to view however I did play with white point after I set the panel to 100% brightness; I can't say for sure that the issue was flicker or if I just don't prefer the intensity of nuclear white... Either way, adjusting that down slightly took that edge off completely. Below 100% I had no issues whatsoever - and without any display adjustment. I've been quite pleased with how comfortable it is to view in my normal day to day environment.

TL: DR: The flicker is DEFINITELY outside my perception range, or the amplitude is so narrow that aside from a mild degree of discomfort at 100% - I wouldn't know it was a pwm controlled panel.

FYI: YMMV.

Did you stick with it?

It's an odd one as notebookcheck have said the 12 Pro "fluctuates wildly between 80 and 277.8 Hz over 50%". So when your using at 100% brightness PWM must be all over the place?



"When reviewed the iPhone 12 Pro showed differing amplitude response levels depending on display brightness. At minimum brightness, we measured a frequency of between 117.9 and 245.1 Hz. Between minimum brightness and 21 % the frequency remained fairly consistent at 223 to 250 Hz. Between 22 % and 50 % display brightness we were able to attest a frequency of 60 Hz, and above that it started to fluctuate wildly between 80 and 277.8 Hz."

https://www.notebookcheck.net/iPhon...Modulation-for-the-OLED-Display.505060.0.html



I'm back on it as I desperately need to replace my 7 Plus and the 12 Pro is one of the models I didn't try.
I have a 12 Pro and 11 in my basket - thinking I would return one of them depending on how I react to the 12 Pro.
I still don't want an 11........

 

[MICHAELSD]

What do you guys think is an excessive amount of returns? I’m testing iPhone SE now and while I do like it I’d be willing to give iPhone 12 Pro a shot if there are any notable improvements.

Let’s not forget if any sort of adjustment has been made to iPhone 12 (there was an update that fixed the flickering defect where the display visibly flickered, although that is likely separate from PWM) then that would be carried over to iPhone 13 in five months.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

What do you guys think is an excessive amount of returns? I’m testing iPhone SE now and while I do like it I’d be willing to give iPhone 12 Pro a shot if there are any notable improvements.

Let’s not forget if any sort of adjustment has been made to iPhone 12 (there was an update that fixed the flickering defect where the display visibly flickered, although that is likely separate from PWM) then that would be carried over to iPhone 13 in five months.

Any answer to that will be subjective. There are some on here who firmly believe research should be done ahead of time to where the only reason to return a phone is a legitimate defect which in effect would be for a replacement. There are others who have returned 26 phones looking for the ‘perfectly color balanced screen’.

Given your passion for the subject and strong desire to be able to use a more modern phone, I say try the 12 Pro. If it works, you’ll be one of the happiest members of MacR. If it doesn’t, you won’t be second guessing each moment you pick us that SE.

Edit: Also, I’d be very curious to know your results. I had the 12 Pro an extended run during the holiday return period and it destroyed me. I had better luck with the 11 Pro Max and that was an awful experience in it’s own right.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Any answer to that will be subjective. There are some on here who firmly believe research should be done ahead of time to where the only reason to return a phone is a legitimate defect which in effect would be for a replacement. There are others who have returned 26 phones looking for the ‘perfectly color balanced screen’.

Given your passion for the subject and strong desire to be able to use a more modern phone, I say try the 12 Pro. If it works, you’ll be one of the happiest members of MacR. If it doesn’t, you won’t be second guessing each moment you pick us that SE.

Edit: Also, I’d be very curious to know your results. I had the 12 Pro an extended run during the holiday return period and it destroyed me. I had better luck with the 11 Pro Max and that was an awful experience in it’s own right.

Honestly this is getting frustrating since I would have gladly kept iPhone 12 Pro Max.

My mother’s first-generation iPhone SE stopped working out of nowhere and I’m likely taking her to a Verizon store so I’ll go there and assess the current PWM situation based on demos. It’s unlikely I’d notice any difference on iPhone 12 Pro unless there has been some sort of change.

 

[jimmy_uk]

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[The.Glorious.Son]

Honestly this is getting frustrating since I would have gladly kept iPhone 12 Pro Max.

My mother’s first-generation iPhone SE stopped working out of nowhere and I’m likely taking her to a Verizon store so I’ll go there and assess the current PWM situation based on demos. It’s unlikely I’d notice any difference on iPhone 12 Pro unless there has been some sort of change.

Let’s suppose there was some form of improvement that inadvertently improved our sensitivity to pwm, I wonder, would a demo unit be a reliable source? I say this because I don’t know the frequency that they replace those demo units. If the change happened with production units beginning in, say, February...that demo unit could be from January. Just tossing this around in my mind.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I noticed notebookcheck mentioned this, perhaps it's worth a try when your instore:

"Between minimum brightness and 21 % the frequency remained fairly consistent at 223 to 250 Hz. Between 22 % and 50 % display brightness we were able to attest a frequency of 60 Hz, and above that it started to fluctuate wildly between 80 and 277.8 Hz.

The fairly consistent amplitude response between 21 % should in theory make for less strain on the eye of the user. Combined with True Tone, which shifts colors towards the warm end of the color spectrum, the eyes should be confronted with less strain. Above 22 % the iPhone goes into 60 Hz mode, a method also commonly used for DC dimming.This maximum brightness achieved in this mode is around 150 nits, which means it will be most commonly used indoors. Brightness then increases significantly, and amplitude response becomes somewhat irregular. Given that the amount of ambient light will be fairly high in these cases the strain on the eyes of the user should be fairly low as well if the ambient light sensor is used to regulate display brightness."

https://www.notebookcheck.net/iPhon...Modulation-for-the-OLED-Display.505060.0.html

This info has me wanting to try a 12 Pro now as I only tried the 12 and 12 Pro Max.

FWIW iPhone X entered a 60Hz mode from 50%-100% brightness and that didn’t help. I‘ve mentioned this before to people testing iPhone 12 Pro and they noted no improvement by keeping the brightness between 22% and 50%.

I ended up not doing any testing at the Verizon store for a number of reasons. The demo phones somehow end up getting severely scratched and aren’t in great condition anyway and especially with COVID I didn’t feel comfortable touching them. As @ARizz44 pointed out I’m not sure it would have been worthwhile even if there was some sort of adjustment. If we had more concrete evidence of panel variance or a software update it may be worth ordering one to test at home.

It is frustrating since I could hypothetically stare at an Apple Watch all-day every day without getting a hint of a migraine or headache. The PWM implementation, especially on the LTPO OLED Apple Watch Series 4, is drastically better than it is on iPhone.

iPhone SE is helping me accomplish my goal of spending less time on a phone and the display looks fine for a LCD and improved over the 8+, so it is entirely possible I’ll just keep this.

I am slightly curious to test iPhone 12 Pro but I don’t think the result for me would be any different than experiencing 24/7 headaches.

 

[tonybarnaby]

What do you guys think is an excessive amount of returns? I’m testing iPhone SE now and while I do like it I’d be willing to give iPhone 12 Pro a shot if there are any notable improvements.

Let’s not forget if any sort of adjustment has been made to iPhone 12 (there was an update that fixed the flickering defect where the display visibly flickered, although that is likely separate from PWM) then that would be carried over to iPhone 13 in five months.

The return issue is moot to me. That’s one of the reasons iPhones are more expensive than the majority of phones. I believe they factor that into the price. We know Apple is so damn cheap that they don’t even give out charging bricks anymore, so I wouldn’t feel bad at all about multiple returns. As for the 12 pro, I just don’t see it working out for you (or anyone pwm sensitive) if the 12 pro max didn’t work. The displays are all made according to apples specifications, and I can’t believe pwm would be any better or worse on any of the lineup. Do you still have the 8+ in the event you return the Se, and the 12 pro doesn’t work out? I returned my first 8+ for an Xs max, only to have to return that after one weekend and buy another 8+. I lost money on that and it added insult to injury that I had to overpay for the same phone I had just traded in haha. Good luck

 

[jimmy_uk]

FWIW iPhone X entered a 60Hz mode from 50%-100% brightness and that didn’t help. I‘ve mentioned this before to people testing iPhone 12 Pro and they noted no improvement by keeping the brightness between 22% and 50%.

I ended up not doing any testing at the Verizon store for a number of reasons. The demo phones somehow end up getting severely scratched and aren’t in great condition anyway and especially with COVID I didn’t feel comfortable touching them. As @ARizz44 pointed out I’m not sure it would have been worthwhile even if there was some sort of adjustment. If we had more concrete evidence of panel variance or a software update it may be worth ordering one to test at home.

It is frustrating since I could hypothetically stare at an Apple Watch all-day every day without getting a hint of a migraine or headache. The PWM implementation, especially on the LTPO OLED Apple Watch Series 4, is drastically better than it is on iPhone.

iPhone SE is helping me accomplish my goal of spending less time on a phone and the display looks fine for a LCD and improved over the 8+, so it is entirely possible I’ll just keep this.

I am slightly curious to test iPhone 12 Pro but I don’t think the result for me would be any different than experiencing 24/7 headaches.

Nuts.....I'm pretty sure with all of my failed attempts to use any of the OLED iPhones that the 12 Pro will likely have the same issues for me. I'm trying to find any crumb of hope as I don't want an SE2 or 11 and the "60hz mode" reported gave me that, but I'm exhausted with the cycle = purchase, eye strain, return. So I'll give it a miss I guess. But equally, it's possible if I even settled for an iPhone 11 that I could be supplied with one that has less the perfect fit and finish (looking at you glass sandwich fitting) which would also have me returning for a refund. 🤦‍♂️

Not upgrading my iPhone first is debilitating with regards to my choice of getting an iPad, MacBook and watch as if I don't replace the phone I don't see a reason to stick with Apple. I'd prefer to be in an eco-system of equipment and would switch to Samsung if they also didn't have PWM in their products. My phone will always remain as my main consumption device due to size, power, flexibility, portability and muscle memory.

The 12 series really makes the 11 look like the ugly, thick duckling now more than ever. I have to get over this!
Your choice of SE2 and finding yourself getting happier with it is good news as it's still a solid and thin device and feels more premium than the 11. It's still classic Apple quality.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Nuts.....I'm pretty sure with all of my failed attempts to use any of the OLED iPhones that the 12 Pro will likely have the same issues for me. I'm trying to find any crumb of hope as I don't want an SE2 or 11 and the "60hz mode" reported gave me that, but I'm exhausted with the cycle = purchase, eye strain, return. So I'll give it a miss I guess. But equally, it's possible if I even settled for an iPhone 11 that I could be supplied with one that has less the perfect fit and finish (looking at you glass sandwich fitting) which would also have me returning for a refund. 🤦‍♂️

Not upgrading my iPhone first is debilitating with regards to my choice of getting an iPad, MacBook and watch as if I don't replace the phone I don't see a reason to stick with Apple. I'd prefer to be in an eco-system of equipment and would switch to Samsung if they also didn't have PWM in their products. My phone will always remain as my main consumption device due to size, power, flexibility, portability and muscle memory.

The 12 series really makes the 11 look like the ugly, thick duckling now more than ever. I have to get over this!
Your choice of SE2 and finding yourself getting happier with it is good news as it's still a solid and thin device and feels more premium than the 11. It's still classic Apple quality.

I’d be curious to hear your experience, but at this point it probably is better to wait for iPhone 13 to test another OLED iPhone.

If Samsung ever solves PWM on their line Apple would follow suit. As it stands now it’s not as much of a priority as it could be since it’s not making iPhone uncompetitive.

iPhone SE is perfectly capable, and even though it has the older design it feels like less of a compromise than iPhone 11. They both have similar build quality along with the same PPI. I’d like to put both phones side-by-side, but going off of memory I do think iPhone SE has a better display. Color accuracy may have been slightly better on iPhone 11, but iPhone SE makes up for that with its higher contrast.

In fact, I think they held back with the LCD on iPhone 11 and they could be putting a better LCD on an iPhone which we likely won’t see again until iPhone SE Plus.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Just to be sure before making a decision to keep iPhone SE I visited an Apple Store, and it does seem that on camera iPhone 12 Pro appears the best of the iPhone 12 series although none of them are flicker-free. I can’t say for certain there have been any improvements since launch.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Just to be sure before making a decision to keep iPhone SE I visited an Apple Store, and it does seem that on camera iPhone 12 Pro appears the best of the iPhone 12 series although none of them are flicker-free. I can’t say for certain there have been any improvements since launch.

Would you say you were able to look at a 12 Pro for longer without effect?

 

[MICHAELSD]

Would you say you were able to look at a 12 Pro for longer without effect?

I looked at all of them and didn’t get a migraine, although the 12 Pro did still feel off.

I’m fairly confident if I was to use one I’d still experience headaches after the first few minutes.