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iPhone 12 iPhone 12 is flicker free(DC dimming)!
- Thread starter changguangyu
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It seems people's reports have been all over the place. Didn't we find that the 12 and 12 Pro had the same PWM frequency?
I have seen reports of people who were better with the Pro, others who were better with the regular 12 while having issues with the Pro, then I have seen some who actually had trouble with both but were better with the Mini (even though we have seen no official measurements yet on the Mini).
Unfortunately we don’t have much more info around methodology. ixbt’s reviews say 240 Hz across every device, and their charts look identical every year. So maybe nothing’s even been changed since the first OLED iPhone.
Well I have the 12 in use for 1 day now and it seems Allright for now.
Fingers crossed.
Well I have the 12 in use for 1 day now and it seems Allright for now.
Fingers crossed.
I have read that even though the frequency is unchanged from years' past, that there seems to be some difference in the flicker wavelengths, the depths of the flicker- for example how sharply each flicker moves from the darkest to the lightest setting if that makes sense- with seemingly much "shorter" wavelengths at most brightness levels than we had seen on older phones like the XS- so the flicker may be less severe to those of us who are sensitive, even if the actual frequency is the same.
I am horrible at summarizing all of the technical discussion on this- but I hope that makes sense.
I, too, seem not to be having issues with my Mini so far, even though the XS I tried 2 years ago was horrible- and I still cannot look at my wife's XS Max for more than a minute or two at a time without problems.
I clipped a PIN photodiode to a scope probe and held it up to the grid on Numbers to sample a white display.
The waveform isn't clean as I didn't bother assembling a proper pin diode preamp but:
It sure looks like PWM to me!
The waveform isn't clean as I didn't bother assembling a proper pin diode preamp but:
It sure looks like PWM to me!
Eyes seem to hurt, burn a little, and some what of a headache after use for very long.
Not really noticing that with my mini- maybe dry eyes, but not as much if that today as over the weekend.
Still trying to see if I am fully ok with this though...
Flicker is everywhere people - lights overhead, neon signs, rear brakelights of a Cadillac, etc....
There is flicker from any modern device: lighting from a 50 / 60 Hz power line, high frequency flicker from laptop displays, all kitchen appliances, motion picture 29.97 Hz film shutter, TV, or even autos....
If you want no flicker, go back to the stone ages, light a candle and cook from a fire and voila - no more flicker.
There is flicker from any modern device: lighting from a 50 / 60 Hz power line, high frequency flicker from laptop displays, all kitchen appliances, motion picture 29.97 Hz film shutter, TV, or even autos....
If you want no flicker, go back to the stone ages, light a candle and cook from a fire and voila - no more flicker.
Which model is this from- the regular 12? And did you see a difference at different brightness levels on the phone?I clipped a PIN photodiode to a scope probe and held it up to the grid on Numbers to sample a white display.
The waveform isn't clean as I didn't bother assembling a proper pin diode preamp but:
It sure looks like PWM to me!
But the difference is that a phone is something you are staring at with pretty close range- flickering lights or neon signs are a whole different story. And LCD phones do not flicker, nor do TV's or most computer/laptop monitors that are LCD.
In all seriousness, it is indeed super relaxing to be cooking by candle or fire light out under open skies
If you adjust the screen brightness, does the signal duty cycle change?I clipped a PIN photodiode to a scope probe and held it up to the grid on Numbers to sample a white display.
The waveform isn't clean as I didn't bother assembling a proper pin diode preamp but:
It sure looks like PWM to me!
Well after some back and forth on whether to keep it or not, I did ultimately decide to keep the Mini- I just sold my 11 on Sunday.
I found that after a few days any mild discomfort I had was gone or mostly gone, and I seem to be doing OK with the Mini. For me the smaller display is really helpful- I think it is less light shining into my eyes, less surface area that is flickering than on other OLED phones I have tried, so this seems to work for me.
Yes indeed. Here I was fretting over whether I had any slight sensitivity to PWM on my tiny little iPhone 12 Mini that I look at off and on for brief moments throughout the day..... but yet I have been watching TV for 6 years- sometimes for many hours per day, especially on football Sundays- on a TV that flickers like CRAZY. I have a Samsung 39" LED TV and I started reading about how most of the Samsung TV's used PWM for their LED backlights- with a horrible flicker frequency of 120Hz. So I did a quick slow mo video of the TV screen and WOW- that flicker was horrible.
So I was staring at that every day for years and never had eye strain or headaches caused by it- really no discomfort at all- so I realized I am really worried over nothing with the iPhone, when the rate of flicker is twice what the TV is, the display is tiny in comparison, and I look at it for a tiny fraction of the time each day that I would be watching the TV.
For those who mention all the other things in a house that have flicker (lights, televisions, etc)...do you stare at those things 6-12 inches from your eyes for minutes to hours at a time? I’m sure the 75” tv on my wall probably flickers, but I’m sitting 15 feet away from it. Just not sure you’re comparing apples to apples here.
That is a good point.... though I suppose how much of your field of vision is covered by the flickering 75" TV vs say the tiny screen on an iPhone 12 Mini- is probably about the same, if not even more? And at least in my case, I might be staring at my phone for a couple minutes to maybe 20 at a time- whereas I am staring at my flickering TV sometimes for 3 or 4 hours straight if I am watching a football game. And I hold the phone out so it is several feet from my face.
Honestly though I am not sure if one is worse than the other?
Yeah and I can’t even pretend to know how one impacts vs the other. The OLED screens on the phones have definitely given me discomfort, but I have no idea why outside of the hundreds of pages here on the subject. I am glad the mini is working for you though! I struck out on the Pro Max and had to go back to my 11. It’s been an interesting topic to follow. One I very much wish didn’t apply to me haha.
haha. I know! I am still a bit unsure on whether I am having trouble with the Mini or not.... I really like the device, I am definitely not having any serious effects, so I do plan to keep it (I just sold my 11 a week ago). Weird thing is I started developing some eye pain in my left eye even when looking at my 11- before I got my Mini. I have weirdness like that which sometimes comes and goes, I remember going through a bout of that a year or so ago when I first got the 11, too. So that happens at times looking at my mini, too- but again seems to be no different than what I had experienced with the 11 there in that final week or two.
I do feel dry eyes at times when using the Mini, and the display seems a bit sharp- but I think that is because I have to keep brightness up to 50% to mitigate the worst of the flicker (on my 11 I kept it down to like 20% or less). I turned up reduce white point to 80% and have a privacy screen protector which seems to cut the brightness just a little as well, and those help. I might try adjusting reduce white point up further.
All in all it is not bad though.... I like the size so much, I am not sure what I could even switch to if I find that the mini ends up being problematic and I had to return it. I suppose the SE 2020 would be the only option, and I would not be thrilled with that. lol
Our eye muscles work hardest when you focus on things close to you - it is more of an intense stare to the centre of your focus when using a phone. Also, I personally don't read pages of small text on my TV......
So a TV and phone are not comparable.
I have a 40" Samsung OLED TV - I watch TV or play games on my console every evening and have zero issues. 10 mins with an iPhone with PWM (from X through to 12) and my eyes are aching which results in a migraine!
Don't the OLED TV's have a much higher flicker frequency (something like 10,000 Hz instead of 240Hz on our phones) which might play into that difference?
Hello everybody, I’m here to try to understand if I could risk getting a 12 pro max or it’s better to stay on Android, due to this meany PWM.
I had iPhone XS 2 years ago, had to sell it within a month (it took me some time to understand what the issue was, at first I thought it could be Face ID, or my eyes “on their own”), to get a XR which obviously gave me no issues.
I have used since then Samsung Galaxy S10+ and now S20+, with no issues (maybe just a liiiiittle more eye strain with the latter, and based on notebookchecker ranking it could be due to the slightly lower frequency in s20), but actually a user pointed out Samsung displays have usually low PWM frequency, so it must be something else (checking the same ranking XS has 240, S10+ 238, S20+ 214).
I’ve read in the past that the issue could be not only frequency, but even “shifts”, meaning that Samsung (as well as other manufacturer) phones have that constant value for all brightness levels, while Apple shifts a lot, maybe with no PWM at 100%, but the discomfort comes from the shifts going down.
Is it possible?
I usually prefer the lower end of brightness slider, it is a real deal breaker for me (and I cannot test properly in a super-lit retail store)
I had iPhone XS 2 years ago, had to sell it within a month (it took me some time to understand what the issue was, at first I thought it could be Face ID, or my eyes “on their own”), to get a XR which obviously gave me no issues.
I have used since then Samsung Galaxy S10+ and now S20+, with no issues (maybe just a liiiiittle more eye strain with the latter, and based on notebookchecker ranking it could be due to the slightly lower frequency in s20), but actually a user pointed out Samsung displays have usually low PWM frequency, so it must be something else (checking the same ranking XS has 240, S10+ 238, S20+ 214).
I’ve read in the past that the issue could be not only frequency, but even “shifts”, meaning that Samsung (as well as other manufacturer) phones have that constant value for all brightness levels, while Apple shifts a lot, maybe with no PWM at 100%, but the discomfort comes from the shifts going down.
Is it possible?
I usually prefer the lower end of brightness slider, it is a real deal breaker for me (and I cannot test properly in a super-lit retail store)
I had the 12PM and didn’t notice any issues (probably because of the higher hz). It was just too large for me so I downgraded to a 12 last week, which is absolutely the perfect size and weight. I didn’t have knowledge of PWM prior, just had no idea why my eyes were hurting, vision became blurry, and the sharpest constant migraines (very physiologically atypical for me). I repurchased an 11 two days ago and can feel the migraines subsiding. In conclusion, the 12PM would probably be fine for most people, but I didn’t want to risk any long term damage.
I guess frequency is just part of the issue, for me at least.
As i wrote above i have none to little issues with any other oled display (mostly samsung devices), the only one that f***ed up my eyes and head has been XS so far, so I'm afraid that frequency shift too gives me issues
I think there is some truth to this, since the PWM in the slo-mo video I took of demo phones at Target appears less apparent on the iPhone 12 Pro Max and iPhone 12, but it’s definitely still visible on the Mini. That being said I only recorded the Apple logo screensaver they have on demos. I almost used the back of my finger to touch the phones but I figured COVID is still an issue.