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iPhone 12 May See 5G Connectivity Issues in the UK

Some thoughts on the above posts:

1. In current deployments (except T-Mobile USA) it is impossible to have 5G without 4G. This is because a 4G site has to serve as the anchor cell for control messages in non-standalone 5G mode. T-Mobile USA is the only network with standalone 5G.
2. 5G power consumption shouldn't be a significant concern.
3. One person noted that they didn't see the point in 5G, 4G is fast enough just not reliable enough - well, good news! 5G isn't really about the incredible speed tests you see shown off. Long term the goal is to help make networks that are more reliable and work "well enough" more of the time.
4. Yes, Sweden and other countries will be in a worse position than the UK as they already have networks depending on n28. One more reason I consider this rumour to be utterly implausible. I believe it to be no more than baseless speculation.
 
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Wraithbone said:
This will also be a huge problem in Denmark as TDC/Yousee already deployed 5g covering most of Denmark on the 700 MHz spectrum. Sad sad. But let us see after the announcement.
Click to expand...

I have no idea why this claim is getting so much credibility. I'll be it utter shock if it's true. I'd bet money (a small amount) that the new iPhone will support n28. And I'm not a gambler, at all.
 
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Wraithbone said:
This will also be a huge problem in Denmark as TDC/Yousee already deployed 5g covering most of Denmark on the 700 MHz spectrum. Sad sad. But let us see after the announcement.
Click to expand...

Not sure if it's a huge problem. LTE coverage in Denmark is one of the best compared to the rest of the world and 700 MHz 5G won't really give the ordinary user a much better experience (if any) for 3 reasons:

- Bandwidth - There is only 2x30 MHz + 20 MHz SDL available in total for all MNO's. TDC is the MNO that has acquired the most spectrum in the 700 MHz with 2x15 MHz paired + 20 MHz SDL. Telia/Telenor only has acquired 2x5 MHz for their joint network and this is simply not enough bandwidth in order to provide the crazy speeds that people are expecting.
- 700 MHz is a coverage band and the cells are quite large, which means a potential high number of users in the cell have to share the capacity (in the beginning you might be lucky not to share it with anyone).
- Antenna-wise the 700 MHz-band is not suitable for MIMO in a phone. You need proper spacing between the relatively larger antennas required for the band (the lower spectrum the longer antennas) and it's not possible in a small handset like a phone. This is different for the higher bands, where antennas are smaller and you can take advantage of MIMO.

Having said that, 5G is of course a better and more reliable technology with new possibilities (with benefits mainly for the industry) so it will be good when deployment reaches us all. 5G has been really hyped by the industry, but in reality and for the ordinary user, it won't be that much of a deal, especially not in the lower bands like the 700 MHz band.
 
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plandersen said:
Not sure if it's a huge problem. LTE coverage in Denmark is one of the best compared to the rest of the world and 700 MHz 5G won't really give the ordinary user a much better experience (if any) for 3 reasons:
...
- 700 MHz is a coverage band and the cells are quite large, which means a potential high number of users in the cell have to share the capacity (in the beginning you might be lucky not to share it with anyone).
Click to expand...

That's not really how cell networks are built. It's not a question of deploying on either 700 Mhz or 3.6 Ghz. In practice, both frequencies are overlaid in the same locations. Phones/devices will automatically prefer 3.6 Ghz when it's available, but handover seamlessly to 700 Mhz if it's not. So if you're in a dense city, you'll get 3.6 Ghz with lots of capacity and bandwidth. If you're far from a cell site, or perhaps in a basement or other location where the 3.6 Ghz signal doesn't propagate well, it will fall back to 700 Mhz.

But of course, this is pretty much what already happens with today's NSA (non-standalone) 5G networks. The "control plane" and voice service remain on LTE, typically on a lower band like 800 or 900 or 1800 Mhz, and the phone opens an additional channel to the 5G service for fast data connectivity.

So currently the main advantage of 700 Mhz 5G is that it makes more efficient use of limited low-frequency spectrum compared to LTE.

But 700 Mhz will become much more important and useful when SA (standalone) 5G gets deployed. Rather than have to maintain simultaneous LTE and 5G connections, they can just handover between 700 Mhz and 3.6 Ghz 5G (and eventually mmWave) as necessary, reducing power use and complexity.
 
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UnicornKitty said:
As I predicted, totally baseless rumour: "
  • 5G NR (Bands n1, n2, n3, n5, n7, n8, n12, n20, n25, n28, n38, n40, n41, n66, n71, n77, n78, n79)
"
Click to expand...
Yeah. Having a look at the specs, it is comparable with 02’s 5g network, that is having a quick glance and not being a tech expert though.

02 have been bigging up the event as well, and in replies their social media team have said that 5g for it will be coming to the network. However their social media teams aren’t always as technically knowledgable as you would think.
 
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bigchrisfgb said:
Yeah. Having a look at the specs, it is comparable with 02’s 5g network, that is having a quick glance and not being a tech expert though.

02 have been bigging up the event as well, and in replies their social media team have said that 5g for it will be coming to the network. However their social media teams aren’t always as technically knowledgable as you would think.
Click to expand...

All UK networks currently use n78. n28 hasn't been auctioned yet (the 700 MHz this thread is about). I did accidentally post the US bands, but they're pretty similar other than a lack of n71 (600 MHz mainly used by T-Mobile USA) on the UK version.
 
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Update the article please. There will be no issues in the UK for the iPhone 12 models.
UnicornKitty said:
All UK networks currently use n78. n28 hasn't been auctioned yet (the 700 MHz this thread is about). I did accidentally post the US bands, but they're pretty similar other than a lack of n71 (600 MHz mainly used by T-Mobile USA) on the UK version.
Click to expand...
Urgh, I use T-Mobile when I’m in the USA. I have a T-M SIM in my SIM tray (EE on eSIM). I guess it doesn’t matter though, I have a EE plan that lets me roam in the USA with no extra charge so I’ll get 5G by that instead.
 
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Donfor39 said:
Sky mvno. via o2.
Think I'll order iPhone 12 Mini.
Run until 5g is made available, hopefully in 2 years contract.
Click to expand...

Hopefully MVNOs will start to get it. First party sub-brands probably will first. Vodafone's VOXI already has 5G and hopefully O2's GiffGaff will soon.
Manatlt said:
Update the article please. There will be no issues in the UK for the iPhone 12 models.

Urgh, I use T-Mobile when I’m in the USA. I have a T-M SIM in my SIM tray (EE on eSIM). I guess it doesn’t matter though, I have a EE plan that lets me roam in the USA with no extra charge so I’ll get 5G by that instead.
Click to expand...

The EE plan likely won't have 5G roaming for awhile, but even if it did, it would make no difference as the bands of the network you're connecting to are what matters.

I suspect when EE does allow 5G roaming in the US, a 5G roaming agreement will most likely be with T-Mobile first as EE used to be part-owned by T-Mobile before getting sold to BT (so there's still probably some history there internally). That's just speculation on my part though, so don't put much value in it.

It is worth noting band 71 is the low band 5G, and will not be fast. Honestly, if you roam in the US often, you'll want the US model as it also adds mmWave bands...
 
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UnicornKitty said:
I have no idea why this claim is getting so much credibility. I'll be it utter shock if it's true. I'd bet money (a small amount) that the new iPhone will support n28. And I'm not a gambler, at all.
Click to expand...

And correctly as you predicted, it supports n28, and this was a baseless rumor (at least when it comes to Denmark).
 
plandersen said:
Not sure if it's a huge problem. LTE coverage in Denmark is one of the best compared to the rest of the world and 700 MHz 5G won't really give the ordinary user a much better experience (if any) for 3 reasons:

- Bandwidth - There is only 2x30 MHz + 20 MHz SDL available in total for all MNO's. TDC is the MNO that has acquired the most spectrum in the 700 MHz with 2x15 MHz paired + 20 MHz SDL. Telia/Telenor only has acquired 2x5 MHz for their joint network and this is simply not enough bandwidth in order to provide the crazy speeds that people are expecting.
- 700 MHz is a coverage band and the cells are quite large, which means a potential high number of users in the cell have to share the capacity (in the beginning you might be lucky not to share it with anyone).
- Antenna-wise the 700 MHz-band is not suitable for MIMO in a phone. You need proper spacing between the relatively larger antennas required for the band (the lower spectrum the longer antennas) and it's not possible in a small handset like a phone. This is different for the higher bands, where antennas are smaller and you can take advantage of MIMO.

Having said that, 5G is of course a better and more reliable technology with new possibilities (with benefits mainly for the industry) so it will be good when deployment reaches us all. 5G has been really hyped by the industry, but in reality and for the ordinary user, it won't be that much of a deal, especially not in the lower bands like the 700 MHz band.
Click to expand...

First, this is not actually a problem as N28 was supported in the end. That being said, 700 IS a coverage band, and therefore it is important to support as the lower latency and coverage is the real benefit from using this band with 5g. This is also the band that most customers will experience. The latency will especially be lower once the control plane moves from 4g to 5g (it is still controlled using 4g), and at this point, the coverage will be even better with the n28 band. Therefore, I actually think support is important for the carriers to sell their mobile phones, exactly because it is so hyped. Plus, it is important to apple to be a part of the hype as the event also clearly showed.

Taking all of that into account, my honest assessment with first-hand experience with the 5G network in Denmark (only on N28) shows that the actual user experience to our excellent 4g coverage is currently minimal (until the control shifts to 5g and latency gets lower).

I have been in several talks with Ericsson and TDC, and honestly, 5G does come with extremely many benefits. Most of them are just not consumer-facing but are benefits to companies or the service provider (so I agree with you). And especially MM-Wave is a technology that is great for certain things, but useless for 99.99% of use cases.
 
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Wraithbone said:
First, this is not actually a problem as N28 was supported in the end. That being said, 700 IS a coverage band, and therefore it is important to support as the lower latency and coverage is the real benefit from using this band with 5g. This is also the band that most customers will experience. The latency will especially be lower once the control plane moves from 4g to 5g (it is still controlled using 4g), and at this point, the coverage will be even better with the n28 band. Therefore, I actually think support is important for the carriers to sell their mobile phones, exactly because it is so hyped. Plus, it is important to apple to be a part of the hype as the event also clearly showed.

Taking all of that into account, my honest assessment with first-hand experience with the 5G network in Denmark (only on N28) shows that the actual user experience to our excellent 4g coverage is currently minimal (until the control shifts to 5g and latency gets lower).

I have been in several talks with Ericsson and TDC, and honestly, 5G does come with extremely many benefits. Most of them are just not consumer-facing but are benefits to companies or the service provider (so I agree with you). And especially MM-Wave is a technology that is great for certain things, but useless for 99.99% of use cases.
Click to expand...

Yes, completely agree with you. Glad it turned out N28 is supported, but like I said benefits using that band would only be minimal (if any).
 
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Soooo.... if I were to buy an unlocked iPhone 12 Pro in the US and use it in the UK with a British network SIM card, would I have any problems?
 
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