I don’t think USB-C is a requirement since current Mazdas with CarPlay have USB-A.I remember that Toyota and Subarus have a 200mm-wide double DIN.
A complaint I have with CarPlay radios is that their data port connector are mostly USB-A at ~5W slow charge.
- 2011: iPhones unofficially could fast charge with the iPad 2's 10W charger.
- 2014: CarPlay launched this year. As a quality of life improvement, Apple could have made it a tech requirement for any CarPlay radio to have USB-A at 12W. Resulting to a 0-50% charge in 30 mins.
- 2015: 1st Android phones with USB-C came out. Many accepted more than 12W of power.
- 2018: Apple makes an updated CarPlay requirement to have USB-C at 27W with the launch of USB-C to Lightning cables.
- 2023: For the last 4 years we'd have enjoyed 27W USB-C fast charging in all CarPlay cars.
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iPhone 15 Models Have 'Completely Standard' USB-C Port Without Restrictions on Accessories
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Perhaps I am not explicit. I am saying it should have been a tech requirement for better quality of life.
Ideal timeline for fast charging in cars:
- 2001-2010: 5W USB-A Car radios (iPhone 2007-onward)
- 2010-2014: 10W USB-A Car radios
- 2014-2018: 12W USB-A CarPlay radios
- 2019-onward: 27W USB-C CarPlay radios
As someone pointed out on MR car ownership typically lasts beyond a dozen years. So getting the latest USB PD power spec in the current year model car is very useful long term design decision unless we do aftermarket car radios.
Another complaint I had with car makers is their slow implementation of CarPlay. The 1st brand to have it was Ferrari in the late 2014 Ferrari FF.
Brands that I use like Honda (late 2015), Subaru (late 2016) & Lexus (late 2019) implented theirs years later. 😤
Another quality of life improvement for all car brands would be the inclusion of 27W USB-C port per car seat or phone brands providing reputable wall & car charging brands with future fast charging power profiles then explicitly pointing them out so we do not have to go through the trouble of learning about the tech.
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Our assumptions about the rumor are worth equally, you were correct just as I was
Which a good shopkeeper wouldn't do. There's a reason you won't find any such sign in an Apple Store.
A non-subtile hint doesn't require a press conference. I can be very blunt with a keyboard.
I don't care about Tim Apple. This is entirely about how an EU Commissioner represents us towards private enterprises, which can invest anywhere in the world or in Germany. I expect courtesy from politicians, who dare to be my representative. I'm allowed to be rude in my name, Tierry isn't.
Exactly this. I reckon if they actually marketed the cables to Android users they’d make up the difference lost in Lightning licensing.
Again, I can AirDrop most file transfers before you can finish with your USB3 because I don't waste time looking for a cable to plug in. I start the transfer far away from my computer while you have to walk to your computer to plug in. Wifi6E is plenty fast.
Not sure why you're limiting to "external drives". Apple shipped a USB-C 2.0 cable with their MacBooks for several years. Many, if not, all models of Google Pixel ship with 2.0 USB-C cables. Nintendo Switch included USB-C cable runs at 2.0 speeds. And so on.
You know what isn't civilization ending activity? Keeping lightning.
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Have I ever actually tried performing that extremely minor use case? Yep. I'll stick to using AirDrop.
I have nothing against USB-C. I am glad the USB-IF copied Apple and made the next USB standard and hopefully last something thats reversible. I still hate that its a wrap around port and not like lightning because there's a greater chance that center piece with the pins can get damaged with lint (will be a lot harder to clean than lighting and in my experience it is already), dust, dirt, etc.
I will never argue anything is better than microusb. The connector was a decent idea, the implementation was absolutely ass. MHL and OTG are some of the many reasons I dislike microUSB. It wasnt durable enough for mobile devices, especially external hard drives and when USB 3 microusb was announced, I felt a bit better because the wider connector actually made it more durable but thats the only reason I liked it.
As for lightning, im almost positive that they had a lightning 2 in the works given what we know about the pin outs. I believe theres 1-2 pins that are completely unused and they could've been used for higher bandwidth or even a pci-e lane.
The multiple cables isnt really the problem, its the absolutely ass backwards labeling that is not good for consumers. You have to remember that we are the 5-10% and 90% of people wont be able to just "look at the cable and figure it out" and yes that includes thickness. I have "normal" friends and nerd friends, the normal friends very much just use the cable they are given with their device or whatever they are able to buy from where ever. Theses are the same people that would buy a cable from a gas station and wonder why it lasted 2 days or burnt up because they plugged it into a high wattage charger (yes this really happened).
You and I however understand technology and understand a good USB-C PD cable or a TB3/4 cable need to be built well to move that much power and/or data. Given this, we have the common sense to go "thicker means more copper means more power / transfer rate" but most people dont. It reminds me of when Monster cables use to be a big deal because of "gold plating" and their ******** branding.
Thankfully the new USB-IF labels should resolve that if they pass and I really hope they do.
If they put up a sign threatening to prosecute a specific customer that had not already stolen from the shop, that would be more comparable. I assume you would have no problem if they included your picture?
Most corporations are run exactly this way, as there are very many liabilities to announcing products prematurely. Apple usually announces product updates two weeks before they ship, and that seems pretty reasonable. If it is a completely new product, like Vision Pro or M1, they often announce many months in advance. It is not Apple’s fault that some of us customers are obsessed enough to hang out on rumour sites, discussing things that may never even exist.
If you wonder why most companies do not announce changes to products in advance, you might want to research the Osborne Effect:
Osborne effect - Wikipedia
A more apt analogy would be the shopkeeper walking up to me as I enter the store, and very loudly and publicly threatening to call the police if I were ever caught shoplifting. Even if I were innocent and never had any intention of doing so, I don’t appreciate the insinuation, nor do I think it was appropriate to broadcast this to everyone in the mall.
The EU’s response to this rumour was totally and completely out of line. Maybe he was simply playing to the pulpit and trying to score points with his support base by acting all tough in front of a US mega corporation.
To me, it just came off as unprofessional. He jumped to conclusions, he obviously didn’t take the time to do the necessary research or investigations, and knowing Apple’s manufacturing timeline, they wouldn’t be in any position to make any changes to their product spec at such a last minute anyways.
That IS behaving just like a USB port, as the standard allows multiple variations.
And there have been multiple levels of PD, so I seem to recall having the wrong version of PD a couple of times, though I think it was back at V2 and V3, rather than the recent ones which seem to be better at backwards compatibility.
Again, this is exactly the kind-of-standard that is standard USB, and it is not Apple messing with it.
Edit: Found the old post where Apple switching to the new V3 PD for the iPhone 12 mini had people complaining they couldn’t use their Apple 18W chargers. Apple get blamed whether they do or don’t update to new standards.
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To me, this rumor was always bunk. Apple has only initiated the MFI program for proprietary standards they created. The two currently in existence are Lightning and MagSafe. If memory serves, they had one for the 30-pin dock connector over a decade ago, too. Note that Qi2 is not quite the same as MagSafe, though it is based on it. It makes sense to have standards when your company is the one that is solely responsible for that standard, just as Intel is responsible for the Thunderbolt standard. They certify as well that devices support their various flavors of Thunderbolt. As an example, the MacBook Airs do not support multiple monitors, a requirement for Thunderbolt 4. That is why they are certified as Thunderbolt 3, despite qualifying for TB4 in all other ways. There are requirements for Thunderbolt cables, just as Apple has requirements for genuine Lightning or MagSafe devices.
Though Apple was a founding member of USB-C and contributed 17 engineers towards creating the standard, Apple does not own it and therefore has never tried to enforce any such MFI-like program. They’ve only done so for sole Apple proprietary standards.
Though Apple was a founding member of USB-C and contributed 17 engineers towards creating the standard, Apple does not own it and therefore has never tried to enforce any such MFI-like program. They’ve only done so for sole Apple proprietary standards.
BTW, I just realized a 'first world problem'.
Me and my wife frequently "exchange" our both cars for varied reasons. I have a big 2018 Mazda6 and my wife a smaller 2018 CX-3. Both have CarPlay via a unique USB-A port compatible and available. Currently there is permanently a Lightning to USB standard cable on both vehicles, so we can simply plug our phones when we enter the car.
I have a 13 PM and my wife a standard 13.
Now I realized that, if I want to upgrade to 15 PM, but my wife decides to keep her 13, we will need to have on both cars a Lightning cable... and a USB-C one too. And we're going to need to disconnect/reconnect the correct cable at every driver change.
Thanks EU for the convenience! 🤣 And Apple too, because we will need both to upgrade to a 2023 USB-C iPhone or later to avoid this annoyance.
Me and my wife frequently "exchange" our both cars for varied reasons. I have a big 2018 Mazda6 and my wife a smaller 2018 CX-3. Both have CarPlay via a unique USB-A port compatible and available. Currently there is permanently a Lightning to USB standard cable on both vehicles, so we can simply plug our phones when we enter the car.
I have a 13 PM and my wife a standard 13.
Now I realized that, if I want to upgrade to 15 PM, but my wife decides to keep her 13, we will need to have on both cars a Lightning cable... and a USB-C one too. And we're going to need to disconnect/reconnect the correct cable at every driver change.
Thanks EU for the convenience! 🤣 And Apple too, because we will need both to upgrade to a 2023 USB-C iPhone or later to avoid this annoyance.
Fast charging has never been "locked" to a proprietary charger, not by Android, and most definitely not by Apple. At best, it requires that your charger deliver a certain amount of current, but literally any manufacturer can make and sell a charger of the appropriate spec (like Anker has). If they don't, that's on them, not Apple.
At this point, I feel it's safe to conclude that it's your own lack of understanding and bias towards Apple that's colouring your impression of the company and preventing yourself from making objective conclusions about them. You keep insisting that your conclusions were not implausible going by Apple's past behaviour, I have debunked them, and I simply do not see how anyone could have reasonably come to the same conclusions that you did, going by their past track record.
Apple isn't run by idiots, though they aren't perfect, and they have made legitimate mistakes in the past. Hate on them for their flaws and errors all you want. At least hate right.
You can use an adapter until both phones are upgraded.
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Yeah, I even still have some devices with Dock connectors, too. Life is hard, but I just try to keep moving forward.
As a great poet once said:
“Gotta get up and take on that world
When your an adult it's no cliche it's the truth”
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There are less expensive options, but I opted for this because I had actuality heard of the company and it’s MFi certified.
EDIT: Oops. The other end is USB C, not USB A for the car. I wasn’t paying enough attention.
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Fast charging is not that simple. Even a "simple" voltage-source-with-internal-resistance-into-fixed-load isn't that simple (esp. if you want efficiency), and modern chargers have adaptive circuitry on both sides, that can negotiate the voltage delivered by the charger (high current at low voltage generates more heat) along with additional safety protections. If the charger and device don't speak the same protocol, everything falls back to the 2.5W USB 2 standard, even if the charger is rated higher.
...and its not even all about technical standards: third parties can reverse engineer fast chargers but without a published standard to certify against, consumers are in the dark and it's easy for the likes of Apple to FUD them into buying expensive branded products.
Really? I don't know who you are confusing me with, but half my posts on this subject have been pointing out good reasons why Apple (like most other phone makers) only supplies a USB 2.0 charge cable by default and the difference between a device that physically can't support USB 3 (regular iPhone 15) and "deliberately gimped by evil Apple".
I don't hate Apple. I don't worship them, either.
It's not even past behaviour - the MFI program hasn't gone away and Apple are still conflating "uncertified" with "counterfeit", that suggests the only way to be sure that a device won't damage your phone is to stick with their proprietary MFI certification program.
Identify counterfeit or uncertified Lightning connector accessories - Apple Support
Apple recommends using only accessories that Apple has certified and that come with the MFi badge. Learn about the issues that counterfeit or uncertified Lightning accessories can cause and how to identify these accessories.
Sure, as of last week it looks like Apple aren't going to extend MFI to USB-C iPhones. The EU found that out when we did - before then the rumours that they would try it on were perfectly plausible.
Actually, I don't see Apple protesting about having to change to USB-C (probably because it was the sensible decision anyhow). With the rest of the industry (maybe with a bit of prodding for the EU) finally standardising on a usable connector, even for non-phone devices, requiring a nonstandard connector that even Macs didn't use was becoming untenable. (I also suspect that the EU directive came when it did partly so that the EU could spit into the ocean and take credit for the tide).
...and, no, they're not idiots - but their job is to maximise profits, and selling/licensing iPhone connectors has been a source of income since the iPod 30-pin connector days. So its really, really not a stretch to think that they'd look for a way to extend MFI to USB-C if they could get away with it.
Which was basically my point when I pointed out that an important part of the EU directive was that it also mandates a particular minimum USB PD standard.
Apple are actually ahead of the game in that they're been using USB PD standards at the charger end for a while. where selling and licensing proprietary cables and adapters has been a cash cow for them since the 30 pin iPod days - and whether Apple were going to give that up without a fight (and probably the only reason that they didn't switch to USB-C for phones when they rolled it out to Macs).
The issue is the connector at the other end - and there, the iPhone is a bit of a special case: selling and licensing proprietary cables and adapters has been a cash cow for Apple since the 30 pin iPod days. Its good that they appear to have let go of that, but I don't think it was a foregone conclusion until it happened.
No, they just search their employees bags in case they have stolen anything. So pardon me for not assuming that Apple will always be the good guy.
You've conveniently dropped the "...if they stole stuff" qualification, which puts a rather different spin on things. As long as that is clear and they don't actually prosecute (or may be throw the customer out) its still not "pre crime" as claimed - and could be somewhat justified if they had reason to suspect.
OK, there are all sorts of lines that they could cross that could make it (subject to jurisdiction) defamation, harassment, misuse of data or discrimination - but that's really extending the analogy beyond reason when we were originally talking about a government official reminding a publicly traded company about the consequences of breaking the rules. Nobody here really knows if whatever information triggered the EU was credible. Its not that Apple aren't being investigated for various anti-competetive practices or that the MFI scheme isn't a real thing.
Ha ha! Never thought I'd see TPOH quoted in MacRumors - love it! (or is it MacRumours...)?
The rollout of third-party cables was my biggest gripe about Lightning.
If I remember correctly — for both USB-A to Lightning and USB-C to Lightning — Apple was the ONLY company making “official” cables for at least a year. So if you wanted to pay less than $19 for a cable, then you’re buying something cheap and uncertified.
The fact that Apple was the only manufacturer of MFi cables essentially created a parallel market for fake cables which had massive demand, because people didn’t want to buy several $19 cables. Apple should have partnered with Anker and other manufacturers to sell cheaper cables simultaneously.
Now, you can get bundles of name-brand, MFi third-party Lightning cables for as low as $1 each. Is there a technical reason this couldn’t have happened 10 years ago? Or was it just because Apple needed their cut?
I just bought 4 braided Anker C-to-C cables (2x 3”, 2x 6”) for $16 total — less than the cost of one of Apple’s less-durable $19 cables. The same cables from Apple would be $95.
This could have been the reality five years ago, and then we’d have five less years of Lightning waste — AND customers would have saved billions of dollars, cumulatively.