iPhone 15 Rumored to Lack SIM Card Tray in France and Likely Other Countries

[bodonnell202]

Here’s the thing though, you get off the airplane in countries like Cambodia or Vietnam and before you go through immigration even there are people selling SIM cards that work perfectly for two months with unlimited calling and data for $10!

With my US-based iPhone, I have to pay $100 or more per month for the same services! Much more if using lots of data. Will the day come that they just hand people a slip of paper with QR code to use for eSIM, sure but we aren’t even close to there yet.

Like I said, try going with no service when your US plan fails you if you’re not in the highly developed world. Those cheap SIM deals at the airport are convenient and take less than a minute. Still have US-based eSIM installed and get calls when needed but turn on the cellular data and select the local phone when calling locally. It’s so much easier.

Fair argument, but I'm sure people said the same thing when Apple introduced the Micro sim. "I used to be able to get off a plane and grab a sim card, now they don't fit in my iPhone 4!" These places will offer cards with QR codes on them soon, and they'll be cheaper to make too.

 

[jasonsmith_88]

The problem with eSIM is that it puts too much control into the hands of carriers. If I want to move my eSIM to a new phone, I have to visit the carriers store in person during business hours to obtain a physical QR code (assuming they have one in stock). My carrier does not support any of the Apple or Android methods of transferring eSIM between devices. This is vastly more complicated than simply popping out your sim and putting it into your new phone. God forbid you break your phone overseas - you’ll be stuck without a sim until you return to your home country. This is a huge problem because banks and many other apps are continuing to force SMS 2FA onto users, so you can’t really live without it for very long. There are cases where people will need to spend thousands of dollars to fly back home to replace their sim card just so they can make a bank transfer. The carrier has absolutely zero incentive to improve the process.

Apple has only considered the happy path here, but the unhappy path has not been resolved yet. Until users can move and reprovision eSIMs without involving the carrier, the physical sim should not be removed.

 

[MilaM]

Apple has only considered the happy path here, but the unhappy path has not been resolved yet. Until users can move and reprovision eSIMs without involving the carrier, the physical sim should not be removed.

I agree. Technology should make your life easier, not more complicated. Getting an eSim is still a huge hassle in many situations.

 

[Fatboy71]

I hope this is not true.

What a pain in the arse this will be when changing phones. Currently, you pop the sim card out of your old phone and put it in your new one, and you are then up and running.

I can imagine doing the same with eSIM is going to involve telephoning your carrier to arrange an eSIM swap. Hope there will be some automated procedure where you can do it without needing to wait in a queue for your call to be answered.

 

[tr331]

They could pretty easily. They don't want to. The telco is the firm to blame, not Apple on this. We are in 2023, not 2003.

From the Telco company perspective, a physical sim improves customer retention and thus allow to gain more money on average per customer. It also makes the customer a little bit less sensitive to monthly price on average.
Once 1 or 2 major telco will promote esim, every competitors MVNO or not will follow gradually.
It was kind of the same story with the beginning of Apple pay with retail banks.

Have you got any evidence at all to back up your ridiculous claim that "a physical sim improves customer retention"? Networks do not charge for SIM cards in most of the world, and if anything landing in a new country where a simple SIM can be physically replaced is particularly important for travellers, where operators websites may not even be avaliable in English. Who wants to try to trawl through a foreign carrier's website with Google Translate trying to work out how to get an eSIM? Apple could easily keep a SIM slot and still support dual eSIM in the same device as it does now.

eSIM has been kept so far as premium feature. MNOs in the UK are keeping these features locked to their pricey full featured networks. There is no excuse for VOXI and Talkmobile, both owned by Vodafone, and SMARTY, owned by Three, not to offer eSIM except to keep the feature locked behind higher prices of their parents. Similarly on the Android side eSIM has still not crept down to more budget phones - this needs to happen so that networks in countries where iPhones are far less popular are incentivised to support eSIM in their own right.

This situation has impacted smaller US carriers like Ting, who have clearly stated they want to offer eSIM but are unable to.

eSIM provides competition and benefits travellers in some cases thanks to the rise of roaming SIMs like Airalo. This does not require Apple to remove the SIM card slot. The problem is that MNOs are oligopolies anyway and can easily prevent MVNOs, who offer their services at lower cost, from providing eSIM - particularly in countries where iPhones are less common. And networks can also make eSIMs extremely difficult - preventing them from being moved to another device without a store visit or a physical card posted to the customer. Apple needs to prevent these anti-competitive moves if anything.

Networks should offer eSIM, absolutely, but Apple removing eSIM in parts of the world makes it harder for travellers, and harder for smaller networks to enter the market.

Fair argument, but I'm sure people said the same thing when Apple introduced the Micro sim. "I used to be able to get off a plane and grab a sim card, now they don't fit in my iPhone 4!" These places will offer cards with QR codes on them soon, and they'll be cheaper to make too.

Well, sure, but quickly a solution became avaliable in a cutting tool for full size SIM cards. The issue with eSIM is it relies on carrier intervention - carriers in markets where iPhones are less popular or have fewer iPhone users (usually budget carriers) are likely to drag their heels on implementing eSIM. We already have problems with US iPhone users going abroad and unable to get local SIMs. Apple fragmenting the market by offering eSIM only in some markets and SIM card compatible devices in other markets does not help as carriers in countries where the iPhone has a SIM slot will still not see this as something they need to add.

You're crazy. I think... It's hard to steal and sell on an iPhone because they are secure and a brick without the passcode but your telephone number can be stolen from the iPhone just by popping out your SIM card.
With 2FA for banking etc using text messages that makes SIM theft a security issue.

You can turn on a SIM PIN. It's not very well known but it's a good idea.

But this still defeats the point - users should have the choice. Use eSIM if you can and want to. If you go somewhere or want to use a network without eSIM support, if the slot is gone you have no choice.

 

[Xand&Roby]

Does anyone forget that we have been using eSim on Apple Watches for years and every month we are asked to pay 5€/$ for a ridiculous feature?
What is the use of the eSim if not to bind the user making it difficult to replace?
I understand that for many it is not understandable, but not everyone has binding contracts: there are disposable cards, without even the need for a holder, there are pay-as-you-go cards, which you can deactivate and activate when you need them, there is the possibility to change all the cards you want. Try to do it with an eSim, but for what reason? Who needs it? Not to customers.
Chinese iPhones will continue to have the double slot for physical dual SIM. Buy those, if you really have to. It's one more option, not one less. And for those who believe they can recover battery or device security, best wishes.

 

[B4U]

I hear you. But what exactly is the problem that needs to be addressed? I will admit, I don't care if future iPhones only support eSIM, just as long as all carriers around the world do the same, and make it just as easy to get an eSIM as it currently is to get a physical sim.

The problem is, I am at the mercy of the carrier.
If they decided they want to charge me to swap an eSIM, my options will be limited.
A physical SIM would not have such problem.
Before anyone says activation fee on the physical SIM, don't forget the carriers can do the same to eSIM as well so that point is moot.

Most importantly, the move to eSIM only is more beneficial to Apple and the carriers than the consumers.
Additional questions to ask:
Is the space used?
Is there any benefits to manufacture 2 different models? The complexity?

Quite frankly, this is an example of de-content a product.

 

[EuroChilli]

The problem is, I am at the mercy of the carrier.
If they decided they want to charge me to swap an eSIM, my options will be limited.
A physical SIM would not have such problem.
Before anyone says activation fee on the physical SIM, don't forget the carriers can do the same to eSIM as well so that point is moot.

Most importantly, the move to eSIM only is more beneficial to Apple and the carriers than the consumers.
Additional questions to ask:
Is the space used?
Is there any benefits to manufacture 2 different models? The complexity?

Quite frankly, this is an example of de-content a product.

I know the feeling. I too am at the mercy of my employer who actually expects me to show up for work, and to take one for the team....if I want to get paid. In other words, if you want a mobile phone, this is how it works/is going to work.

Just reading the title again...iPhone rumoured to lack sim tray, in France. Ok, I live in Belgium and simply drove over the border and bought my last iPhone in The Netherlands, because it was cheaper there, then drove home and got on with my life. The French can do the same thing, or anyone anywhere in the EU, no import duties. So if your EU country only sells eSIM iPhones, you don't have to go that far to get a 'normal' iPhone, or just order one off Amazon from another EU country. Been there, done that.

Key words here: rumoured (this forum is full of them), and France.

Moral of the story, I think it is still going to be many, many years before all the networks and the only iPhones available in the world only do eSIM. In the meantime, I too will be enjoying getting physical, and eSIM, at the same time.

But come to think of it, I did raise my eyebrows when it was made clear Apple would no longer be making computers with built in CD drives. How would we live without such things? but I got over it, I can't actually remember the last time I played a CD/DVD.

Is the space used? What space? Who cares?
Is there any benefits to manufacture 2 different models? The complexity? Yes, and it's not that complicated, for phones. I once worked in a factory that made both right and left hand drive cars. Now that was complicated, swapping out form tools every few hours that weighed several metric tons.

I see way more benefits with eSIM, as a customer, IF they are handled by the networks like regular sims. We all know they can do it, the tech already exists. They are just dragging their feet, for whatever reason, hence this discussion.

 

[Yebubbleman]

Call me old-fashioned, but removing physical SIM cards seems to make it even harder for one to nonchalantly add or change cell plans while on the go. This is mostly doesn't apply in the U.S. where the major carriers make this a major pain anyway. But certainly, for other countries, this makes the process of buying a phone and service ever more needlessly formal and I'm not a fan of that.

 

[_Spinn_]

Seems likely that Apple will continue to phase out the SIM tray in additional markets.

 

[slyronit]

Which carrier Indian E Sim you had?

Jio

 

[slyronit]

Well, that’ll soon change. If MVNO wants to carry iPhone for sale, they have to support esim starting this fall from what I heard industrial rumor wise, no exception.



Unfortunately that won’t be the case. Asian market will also follow suit likely this year. Especially in Japan, where phone scam are prevalent, and many happen by prepaid sims. Government might require all carrier to support esim only to combat the phone scams.

No I don’t think so. Almost no one uses eSims in markets like India or Thailand.

 

[Daytona 360]

You're crazy. I think... It's hard to steal and sell on an iPhone because they are secure and a brick without the passcode but your telephone number can be stolen from the iPhone just by popping out your SIM card.
With 2FA for banking etc using text messages that makes SIM theft a security issue.

That's why there is such thing as a SIM PIN

 

[Mrjoedot]

good. so damn tired of taking out sim from old to new ones.

 

[tranceking26]

This could be a problem for me in the future, giffgaff doesn't have eSIM and I would rather stay with them.

They don't even have visual voicemail and how old is that?!

 

[svish]

In a couple of years, there will only be eSIM models across the world.

 

[B4U]

I know the feeling. I too am at the mercy of my employer who actually expects me to show up for work, and to take one for the team....if I want to get paid. In other words, if you want a mobile phone, this is how it works/is going to work.

Just reading the title again...iPhone rumoured to lack sim tray, in France. Ok, I live in Belgium and simply drove over the border and bought my last iPhone in The Netherlands, because it was cheaper there, then drove home and got on with my life. The French can do the same thing, or anyone anywhere in the EU, no import duties. So if your EU country only sells eSIM iPhones, you don't have to go that far to get a 'normal' iPhone, or just order one off Amazon from another EU country. Been there, done that.

Key words here: rumoured (this forum is full of them), and France.

Moral of the story, I think it is still going to be many, many years before all the networks and the only iPhones available in the world only do eSIM. In the meantime, I too will be enjoying getting physical, and eSIM, at the same time.

But come to think of it, I did raise my eyebrows when it was made clear Apple would no longer be making computers with built in CD drives. How would we live without such things? but I got over it, I can't actually remember the last time I played a CD/DVD.

Is the space used? What space? Who cares?
Is there any benefits to manufacture 2 different models? The complexity? Yes, and it's not that complicated, for phones. I once worked in a factory that made both right and left hand drive cars. Now that was complicated, swapping out form tools every few hours that weighed several metric tons.

I see way more benefits with eSIM, as a customer, IF they are handled by the networks like regular sims. We all know they can do it, the tech already exists. They are just dragging their feet, for whatever reason, hence this discussion.

It is not how it is going to work if we put our feet down and say no to Apple.

And unfortunately, we in the USA are already the lab animals in this crazy experiment. So, at this point, it is no longer a rumour for us on this side of the pond.

CD drives are not the same, not to mention the fact that Apple still sells this:

Storage - Mac Accessories

Backup your Mac with a portable or desktop hard drive. Safekeep all of your music, photographs, movies and more. Buy online with fast, free shipping.

www.apple.com

You can't remember the last time you played a CD/DVD does not mean no one else needed one.

The SIM tray space is not utilized, but simply removed not for the benefit of us consumers. It restricted our choices. Therefore I do care, as I utilize the physical SIM when traveling overseas.

LHD and RHD is a different story, the steering rack, instrument panel, suspension component, and perhaps the headlamps. But that is being dictated by the market the manufacturer do their business in.

The technology exists, just like EV for over a hundred of years too (heck, even Thomas Edison had one). So what?
The technology is simply not mature enough for the market hence it shall still wait instead of forcing it to happen.
Since you talk about cars, why do we even need a bloody remote and key? Just use software on the phone and abandon all button/switches and hardware. Want to turn on the wipers? Ask Siri and use CarPlay to turn it on. It will work just fine.

 

[SpaceCrystal]

It’s happening, folks. Physical SIMs & physical SIM trays on smartphones & iPhones are going the way of the dodo.

I already knew that this would happen the moment that Apple had started switching to eSIMs with the iPhone 14 lineups in the US.

In a couple of years, there will only be eSIM models across the world.

This. It has already started in the US with the iPhone 14 models. It’ll now start with France, & will then slowly start spreading everywhere else.

Thanks man. The mass media like to vilify China and Chinese people but visiting China is amazing. People are so friendly and so happy to meet foreigners.

It’s the fault of ignorant people who listens to propaganda from corporate, mainstream media along with our stupid, corrupt politicians.

That’s a complete lie and Chinese people must stop spreading this obvious falsehood.

China isn’t the same as Chinese people. The Chinese people are completely different and separate from the Chinese government.

Mass media is vilifying China because they deserve it, but they do not vilify Chinese people.

Son, you might want to turn towards independent media, its outlets & journalists & away from corporate MSM that constantly spreads propaganda to hate those who aren’t in America.

 

[vmistery]

In the U.K. no MVNO and one main network carrier Three don’t yet support them. Would be a right old pain as well when travelling. What’s the reasoning behind it?

 

[riverfreak]

Sometimes I do miss the old Sim Tray. Do you guys? Or do you guys like the eSim?

No.

Love having all my esims in my phone at once and not having to worry about losing them.

 

[riverfreak]

In the U.K. no MVNO and one main network carrier Three don’t yet support them. Would be a right old pain as well when travelling. What’s the reasoning behind it?

Traveling … where?

eSims are much easier than physical sims for traveling.

 

[votdfak]

Find happiness and send Apple a strong message by never purchasing their products.

Will you do it?

I did, iPhone 12 Pro --> Fold 4, Apple Watch 6 SS --> Garmin Epix 2, Airpods Pro -> Sony something something

 

[EuroChilli]

Traveling … where?

eSims are much easier than physical sims for traveling.

That they are. Already got my Airalo Island Hopper installed for the Caribbean, and I’m not even there yet. The moment my phone ‘sees’ a partner network, I’m online, while still sitting on the plane. And it works in 24 Caribbean territories. No mess, no fuss, just good value. $15 for 1GB, waaaay cheaper than cruise ship wifi.

Now, this thread has inadvertantly given me an idea, creating my own eSIM and selling that to future iPhone users

 

[Roadstar]

I did, iPhone 12 Pro --> Fold 4, Apple Watch 6 SS --> Garmin Epix 2, Airpods Pro -> Sony something something

I've still got my iPhone 13 Pro and Apple Watch 6 as backups, but my main carry is the S23+. For watch I'm alternating between Garmin Fenix 6 Pro and Venu 2 Plus and Galaxy Buds Pro that I got as a preorder bonus for the S22+ are still working fine. I've had two different pairs of AirPods, but both had an issue where only the other bud was activated when taking both out of the case and it would take multiple attempts to get stereo audio working. Comparatively, the Galaxy Buds work as intended more or less every time.

 

[votdfak]

I wanna see something different from Apple before I go back. Apple eco is much better, but got tired of same stuff.