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This is the year 2024 and these arguments are a bit outdated. 99% of photos are taken with phones.

Depends on the level of photography you want to do. Yes, at the moment smart phones dominate the casual photography world and have made, for the moment, point and shoot cameras completely obsolete. But they’re a massive trade-off if you’re serious about photography. Even enthusiast photographers will outgrow the iPhone’s camera system very quickly.

So the argument that most people use a phone camera isn’t saying much. Before digital most people used cheap disposable Kodak cameras. For the vast majority of people image quality and editing are not part of their priorities. They just want to snap pictures and move on.

Right now there are options for serious photographers, though not to the extent of a few years ago. There are maybe a half dozen compact zoom cameras still on the market and a few decent fixed focal length compacts. Then there are reasonably small and portable APS-C MILC systems like Fuji X.

And just watch. Camera phones are the “thing” now but there’s a good chance that point and shoots will make a comeback of some kind in the next couple of years because even the cheapest dedicated camera will make better images than a phone camera. “Computational photography” can never match a lens that can gather many times more light than the ones on phones. There are enough enthusiasts around who want a better camera than what’s on their phones that the industry will eventually have to address that under served market.
 
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I agree, phone cameras are useless for somebody, who is serious about photography and most probably will forever be useless becasue of optical constraints. Hence the 1%. Apple doesn't care about the 1%. Or at least they don't anymore.


And just watch. Camera phones are the “thing” now but there’s a good chance that point and shoots will make a comeback of some kind in the next couple of years because even the cheapest dedicated camera will make better images than a phone camera.

There iz zero chance of this happening. Yes, people will start carrying 1kg equipment because... what?
 
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Apple needs to do some serious hardware innovations for the iPhone 16.
Perhaps underscreen Camera or both Face ID and Touch ID
People walking around with 4 or 5 year old iPhones proves the point that there is no enthusiasm to upgrade
 
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Here’s one case:

Often I’m listening to music on my phone when I decide to shoot some video. But once you launch the camera you can’t use the volume bottoms to turn it down.

There are others but that’s one I run into fairly often.
You can play music while shooting video?
 
Depends on the level of photography you want to do. Yes, at the moment smart phones dominate the casual photography world and have made, for the moment, point and shoot cameras completely obsolete. But they’re a massive trade-off if you’re serious about photography. Even enthusiast photographers will outgrow the iPhone’s camera system very quickly.

So the argument that most people use a phone camera isn’t saying much. Before digital most people used cheap disposable Kodak cameras. For the vast majority of people image quality and editing are not part of their priorities. They just want to snap pictures and move on.

Right now there are options for serious photographers, though not to the extent of a few years ago. There are maybe a half dozen compact zoom cameras still on the market and a few decent fixed focal length compacts. Then there are reasonably small and portable APS-C MILC systems like Fuji X.

And just watch. Camera phones are the “thing” now but there’s a good chance that point and shoots will make a comeback of some kind in the next couple of years because even the cheapest dedicated camera will make better images than a phone camera. “Computational photography” can never match a lens that can gather many times more light than the ones on phones. There are enough enthusiasts around who want a better camera than what’s on their phones that the industry will eventually have to address that under served market.
You really don't understand photography or photographers do you? There are some enthusiast compact cameras out there. But that is a thing of the past. Compact Cameras sales have reduced by 97% since 2008. Compact cameras CANNOT do is what computational photography does in the Samsungs, iPhones, Google Pixels of this world. And it never will.

The pick of the bunch, the Sony RX100 vii hasn't been updated since 2019, and the Fujifilm X100V is 2020!

If an enthusiast wants a better camera than that, they have to go for something like the Fujifilm XT-5 or the Nikon Zfc. Having been the head of a photography department with a Police department, and having worked professionally as a photographer outside of that, I can tell you that Compact Cameras are officially dead. There is no chance of a return.
 
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You really don't understand photography or photographers do you? There are some enthusiast compact cameras out there. But that is a thing of the past. Compact Cameras sales have reduced by 97% since 2008. Compact cameras CANNOT do is what computational photography does in the Samsungs, iPhones, Google Pixels of this world. And it never will.

The pick of the bunch, the Sony RX100 vii hasn't been updated since 2019, and the Fujifilm X100V is 2020!

If an enthusiast wants a better camera than that, they have to go for something like the Fujifilm XT-5 or the Nikon Zfc. Having been the head of a photography department with a Police department, and having worked professionally as a photographer outside of that, I can tell you that Compact Cameras are officially dead. There is no chance of a return.

I stand by what I wrote and I know a lot about photography having been a professional photographer for years myself. Clearly YOU are the one not up to date as the X-100v successor is to be announced in February, amongst other factually questionable assertions you’ve made, most of them straw men.

The compact dedicated camera market is drastically under served at the moment. Compact cameras will always produce better images than phones due to larger sensors and larger glass. A comeback for dedicated compact cameras is bound to happen at some point. Probably not this year and probably not next. But within five for sure. I don’t mean “comeback” like “Best Buy is going to be selling compact cameras to everyone and their dog again.” That’s obviously not going to happen. But the range of options for ENTHUSIAST SHOOTERS will expand.

I really have no idea why this makes you so emotional. Perhaps consider what I said without applying a bunch of absolutes that I never asserted. That might help
 
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I stand by what I wrote and I know a lot about photography having been a professional photographer for years myself. Clearly YOU are the one not up to date as the X-100v successor is to be announced in February, amongst other factually questionable assertions you’ve made, most of them straw men.

The compact dedicated camera market is drastically under served at the moment. Compact cameras will always produce better images than phones due to larger sensors and larger glass. A comeback for dedicated compact cameras is bound to happen at some point. Probably not this year and probably not next. But within five for sure. I don’t mean “comeback” like “Best Buy is going to be selling compact cameras to everyone and their dog again.” That’s obviously not going to happen. But the range of options for ENTHUSIAST SHOOTERS will expand.

I really have no idea why this makes you so emotional. Perhaps consider what I said without applying a bunch of absolutes that I never asserted. That might help
Keep dreaming. Fuji are the only ones updating their compact.

I understand the difference between phone camera sensors and APS-C / Micro 4/3rds and phones. But people don’t want them. Or at least the masses. Complete niche and the only reason why Fuji are doing so well is because they have a similar / loyal fan base like Apple do. The Film Simulations are the reason they are doing so well.

And then you look at the quality of processing on the phones, particularly with AI, which means other than the niche, people will go for phones over any compact. It’s simply not worth the investment. Whereas Fuji have a different system enabling them to use the same sensors across their range. Which is why they go from Crop straight to medium format b
 
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Keep dreaming. Fuji are the only ones updating their compact.

I understand the difference between phone camera sensors and APS-C / Micro 4/3rds and phones. But people don’t want them. Or at least the masses. Complete niche and the only reason why Fuji are doing so well is because they have a similar / loyal fan base like Apple do. The Film Simulations are the reason they are doing so well.

And then you look at the quality of processing on the phones, particularly with AI, which means other than the niche, people will go for phones over any compact. It’s simply not worth the investment. Whereas Fuji have a different system enabling them to use the same sensors across their range. Which is why they go from Crop straight to medium format b

Stop trying to make an argument against a position I never took. My point stands. Your mountain of straw men doesn’t change that. If you’re wondering why I’m saying this go back and read what I actually wrote and drop the weird personal campaign against compact cameras you seem to be focused on.
 
Stop trying to make an argument against a position I never took. My point stands. Your mountain of straw men doesn’t change that. If you’re wondering why I’m saying this go back and read what I actually wrote and drop the weird personal campaign against compact cameras you seem to be focused on.
I just think you’re wrong, and you haven’t, and can’t provide a reason why you think compact cameras are going to make this amazing comeback against every trend that shows the complete opposite. Show me some research or even a yahoo news story (whichever you can muster) to demonstrate you have a basis for this fantasy.
 
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I just think you’re wrong, and you haven’t, and can’t provide a reason why you think compact cameras are going to make this amazing comeback against every trend that shows the complete opposite. But I guess you can keep dreaming. good luck to you. I’ve noticed you just make stuff up with no foundation or basis.

Pressing absolutes that I never articulated again. And no, I don’t just make things up. That’s a drastic and false accusation.
 
Pressing absolutes that I never articulated again. And no, I don’t just make things up. That’s a drastic and false accusation.
That is almost true. You did say that point and shoot cameras are bound to come back. For which there is no basis. But whatever. Going round in circles. You have an opinion and you’re entitled to it. It doesn’t have to be backed up by anything, and that’s fine.
 
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That is almost true. You did say that point and shoot cameras are bound to come back. For which there is no basis. But whatever. Going round in circles. You have an opinion and you’re entitled to it. It doesn’t have to be backed up by anything, and that’s fine.

I discussed the market and why there’s a hole in it for enthusiast photographers. That’s all the evidence that’s needed to support my point. Demanding backup when it isn’t necessary and then attacking me as a “liar” based on it is a deflection tactic. An inappropriate and insulting deflection tactic.
 
I discussed the market and why there’s a hole in it for enthusiast photographers. That’s all the evidence that’s needed to support my point. Demanding backup when it isn’t necessary and then attacking me as a “liar” based on it is a deflection tactic. An inappropriate and insulting deflection tactic.
What? When did I even intimate you were a liar? Stop the attacks bro'
 
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What? When did I even intimate you were a liar? Stop the attacks bro'

Words have meanings:

“I’ve noticed you just make stuff up with no foundation or basis.”

That’s you flat out calling me a liar. Falsely, and in order to smear me because you disagree with my assessment of a niche photography market. If you think that’s appropriate you’re wrong. And no, I haven’t attacked you.
 
Words have meanings:

“I’ve noticed you just make stuff up with no foundation or basis.”

That’s you flat out calling me a liar. Falsely, and in order to smear me because you disagree with my assessment of a niche photography market. If you think that’s appropriate you’re wrong. And no, I haven’t attacked you.
Leave me alone.
 
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