iPhone 16 Still Banned in Indonesia Despite $1B Apple Investment Deal

[UK-MacAddict]

Again, the fact that the US makes mistakes, and has made mistakes throughout its history, doesn't mean they're just as bad as China, that is currently ethnically cleansing minorities throughout its territory, or Russia, that literally invaded its neighbor and has been raping its neighbor's women and kidnapping its neighbor's children over the past three years.


Afghanistan is absolutely different. The country allowed Al Qaida to operate with impunity in their territory, and then protected them even after 9/11. And while I was never a fan of the war in Iraq (protested against it even), Saddam Hussein was an evil and dangerous man who used chemical weapons on his own people. Now there are lots of evil and dangerous leaders around the world, and again, I was against the war, but claiming that the war to remove him was "no different" from an autocrat invading another country simply because he wants its territory is absurd.


We know better now! Is the correct answer, "well we now know it's killing the planet, but we have to be fair, so go ahead and continue killing the planet?" Of course not. That's like arguing that "my grandparents could buy cigarettes as teenagers because no one know smoking was bad for you, therefore the government shouldn't be allowed to ban the sale of cigarettes to minors because that wouldn't be fair". Ludicrous argument.

The US government were covering up friendly fire kills on its own soldiers in the whole Snowden episode. Those families would never have found out exactly what happened if it wasn't leaked. US passed an act in 1830 to be able to forcibly remove Native Americans from their lands. You can bet your life soldiers raped and abused some along the way. By your argument what China is doing now will just be a mistake in its history when looking back on it in years to come.

This high and mighty mission in Afghanistan, what has happened since? They high tailed it out of there and abandoned the country to allow it to return to terrorist rule, wasting thousands of lives both civilian and the soldiers who fought in it. What must those families of those killed US and UK troops be feeling, that their sons and daughters died or got maimed for nothing. As for Iraq that was a joke, yes Saddam deserved to die but in doing so they destabilised the region and it's still not recovered since.

What did Trump just say on the news yesterday? Incoming President, he would not rule out taking the Panama Canal and Greenland by force. I believe that's one country wanting to invade another country simply because they want their territory. Also the Gulf of America statements and Canada becoming the 51st state.....

The correct answer is that climate change and fossil fuels would not be an issue if it wasn't for global overpopulation. That's what really killing the planet. Too many people taking up finite resources at an increasing rate.

If the global powers truly cared about climate change then why is nearly every country in the world outsourcing production to Asian countries where there is cheap labour exploitation and the countries burn a lot of fossil fuels. They are indirectly using fossil fuels themselves but by adding the cost of it to another countries total output. If Apple cared so much they would produce everything in the US using renewable energy.

 

[Madhatter32]

The US government were covering up friendly fire kills on its own soldiers in the whole Snowden episode. Those families would never have found out exactly what happened if it wasn't leaked. US passed an act in 1830 to be able to forcibly remove Native Americans from their lands. You can bet your life soldiers raped and abused some along the way. By your argument what China is doing now will just be a mistake in its history when looking back on it in years to come.

This high and mighty mission in Afghanistan, what has happened since? They high tailed it out of there and abandoned the country to allow it to return to terrorist rule, wasting thousands of lives both civilian and the soldiers who fought in it. What must those families of those killed US and UK troops be feeling, that their sons and daughters died or got maimed for nothing. As for Iraq that was a joke, yes Saddam deserved to die but in doing so they destabilised the region and it's still not recovered since.

What did Trump just say on the news yesterday? Incoming President, he would not rule out taking the Panama Canal and Greenland by force. I believe that's one country wanting to invade another country simply because they want their territory. Also the Gulf of America statements and Canada becoming the 51st state.....

The correct answer is that climate change and fossil fuels would not be an issue if it wasn't for global overpopulation. That's what really killing the planet. Too many people taking up finite resources at an increasing rate.

If the global powers truly cared about climate change then why is nearly every country in the world outsourcing production to Asian countries where there is cheap labour exploitation and the countries burn a lot of fossil fuels. They are indirectly using fossil fuels themselves but by adding the cost of it to another countries total output. If Apple cared so much they would produce everything in the US using renewable energy.

Read up on governments in North Korea, China, Iran, Afghanistan and many other places. You will begin to appreciate the United States ... less so Britain. And, it has nothing to do with climate change (which has more to do with present day China then any other country in the world). This anti-western mind worm needs to stop. The selective outrage and historical revisionism is tiresome.

 

[UK-MacAddict]

Read up on governments in North Korea, China, Iran, Afghanistan and many other places. You will begin to appreciate the United States ... less so Britain. And, it has nothing to do with climate change (which has more to do with present day China then any other country in the world). This anti-western mind worm needs to stop. The selective outrage and historical revisionism is tiresome.

The US is an absolute joke currently. They claim to be first a first world country but some of their actions is just mind blowing. US is not the greatest country in the world, hate to burst that bubble. UK is in a terrible state currently as well so not just hating on the US.

I'm not being anti-western I'm an Asian male born and raised in the UK from immigrant parents. But the belief that some governments and countries are better is ludicrous. They have all got their hands dirty at some point and did terrible things.

I couldn't give a hoot about historical revisionism. What happened in the past is in the past and the current generation have nothing to do with it. I don't believe in reparations payments to countries for the slave trade etc. I don't agree with tearing down Churchill statues.

 

[Madhatter32]

The US is an absolute joke currently. They claim to be first a first world country but some of their actions is just mind blowing. US is not the greatest country in the world, hate to burst that bubble. UK is in a terrible state currently as well so not just hating on the US.

I'm not being anti-western I'm an Asian male born and raised in the UK from immigrant parents. But the belief that some governments and countries are better is ludicrous. They have all got their hands dirty at some point and did terrible things.

I couldn't give a hoot about historical revisionism. What happened in the past is in the past and the current generation have nothing to do with it. I don't believe in reparations payments to countries for the slave trade etc. I don't agree with tearing down Churchill statues.

The US is NOT joke. Not even close. The UK ... who knows but please stop the anti-US ranting. It's one thing to have to bear it from people from the third-world who have not experienced freedom but at least can dream of something different. It is worse when the pablum comes from supposed "educated" elites who have no appreciation of their own privilege (indeed the very privilege to speak freely) and lack the modicum of grace/appreciation of the past hardships and sacrifices that created the very freedom they so enjoy.

Things steeped in freedom -- like democracy, free markets, commitment to the rule of law -- are good things. These are not the kind of things found in many countries throughout the world. I agree that, at times, free countries may look quite chaotic. The last four years certainly qualifies. However, the big picture is that such turbulence is a feature of a free society, not a bug. So be grateful, not spiteful.

 

[MyOwnDrummer]

I suspect we’ll see more countries trying to leverage access to their markets for investment and knowledge share.

In other words, grift and legal bribery.

 

[wbeasley]

C

The US government were covering up friendly fire kills on its own soldiers in the whole Snowden episode. Those families would never have found out exactly what happened if it wasn't leaked. US passed an act in 1830 to be able to forcibly remove Native Americans from their lands. You can bet your life soldiers raped and abused some along the way. By your argument what China is doing now will just be a mistake in its history when looking back on it in years to come.

This high and mighty mission in Afghanistan, what has happened since? They high tailed it out of there and abandoned the country to allow it to return to terrorist rule, wasting thousands of lives both civilian and the soldiers who fought in it. What must those families of those killed US and UK troops be feeling, that their sons and daughters died or got maimed for nothing. As for Iraq that was a joke, yes Saddam deserved to die but in doing so they destabilised the region and it's still not recovered since.

What did Trump just say on the news yesterday? Incoming President, he would not rule out taking the Panama Canal and Greenland by force. I believe that's one country wanting to invade another country simply because they want their territory. Also the Gulf of America statements and Canada becoming the 51st state.....

The correct answer is that climate change and fossil fuels would not be an issue if it wasn't for global overpopulation. That's what really killing the planet. Too many people taking up finite resources at an increasing rate.

If the global powers truly cared about climate change then why is nearly every country in the world outsourcing production to Asian countries where there is cheap labour exploitation and the countries burn a lot of fossil fuels. They are indirectly using fossil fuels themselves but by adding the cost of it to another countries total output. If Apple cared so much they would produce everything in the US using renewable energy.

China in the past year has added more renewable energy than all other countries added together. By a long way apparently. They dont want to be dependent on other countries for coal and gas.

 

[wbeasley]

In other words, grift and legal bribery.

you missed extortion

 

[wbeasley]

The US is NOT joke. Not even close. The UK ... who knows but please stop the anti-US ranting. It's one thing to have to bear it from people from the third-world who have not experienced freedom but at least can dream of something different. It is worse when the pablum comes from supposed "educated" elites who have no appreciation of their own privilege (indeed the very privilege to speak freely) and lack the modicum of grace/appreciation of the past hardships and sacrifices that created the very freedom they so enjoy.

Things steeped in freedom -- like democracy, free markets, commitment to the rule of law -- are good things. These are not the kind of things found in many countries throughout the world. I agree that, at times, free countries may look quite chaotic. The last four years certainly qualifies. However, the big picture is that such turbulence is a feature of a free society, not a bug. So be grateful, not spiteful.

if you think the last four years were bad... hang on to your hat!

the rest of the world looks on in horror at the things being said even before Trump makes it back to the office.
Explain how his comments on Greeenland and Panama are anything but deranged?

Will they happen? No, he didnt do half the things he said he would last time.
His choice for Official positions have been met with worrying looks everywhere - including his own party that knocked a few on the head. Still Musk looks bad and anyone with a science or medical background cannot believe the Kennedy or Dr Oz choices.

The only hope is the Republicans were happy to use him to gain power again and now treat him as a lame duck and defy him.

 

[macfacts]

It doesn't matter if they pay it themselves. If it costs us more to buy stuff from there, we buy less from them. Therefore, they sell less.

Someone above said Indonesia produces palm oil. Do an internet search for food products that use Palm oil. Americans aren't going to be buying less of these foods. Here's a small list: Ice cream,Baked goods Margarine, Bread, Chocolate, Cereal, Potato chip, Instant noodles, Peanut butter, Canned sou, Pizza dough, Cookies.

 

[I7guy]

Someone above said Indonesia produces palm oil. Do an internet search for food products that use Palm oil. Americans aren't going to be buying less of these foods. Here's a small list: Ice cream,Baked goods Margarine, Bread, Chocolate, Cereal, Potato chip, Instant noodles, Peanut butter, Canned sou, Pizza dough, Cookies.

There are many products without palm oil. I personally don’t buy products with them. So yeah, it’s possible.

 

[MyOwnDrummer]

you missed extortion

yeah, that’s the word I wanted, but I was too exhausted to come up with it.

 

[webkit]

Just as Apple has rules for doing business in its "country" (platform), Indonesia has rules for doing business in its country. If Apple isn't yet meeting things like Indonesia’s domestic content requirements then they shouldn't be allowed to do business there. If Apple feels Indonesia isn’t being clear enough with rules then perhaps they shouldn’t do business there.

 

[surferfb]

Just as Apple has rules for doing business in its "country" (platform), Indonesia has rules for doing business in its country. If Apple isn't yet meeting things like Indonesia’s domestic content requirements then they shouldn't be allowed to do business there. If Apple feels Indonesia isn’t being clear enough with rules then perhaps they shouldn’t do business there.

Indonesia keeps moving the goalposts, which is just yet another reason this is a shakedown. Last we argued about this, Indonesia said $1 billion was enough, now it's not. Absolutely corrupt behavior.

 

[webkit]

Indonesia keeps moving the goalposts, which is just yet another reason this is a shakedown. Last we argued about this, Indonesia said $1 billion was enough, now it's not. Absolutely corrupt behavior.

And as I clearly stated in my post, if Apple feels Indonesia isn’t being clear enough with rules (like "40% domestic content") then perhaps they shouldn't do business there. Do iPhones have 40% Indonesia domestic content? No.

 

[surferfb]

And as I clearly stated in my post, if Apple feels Indonesia isn’t being clear enough with rules (like "40% domestic content") then perhaps they shouldn't do business there. Do iPhones have 40% Indonesia domestic content? No.

Indonesia said "we'll allow you sell your phone if you "invest" a billion dollars" and now is saying "thanks for the AirTag factory that the President of the country said would allow you to sell your phone, but sorry it doesn't actually count and you still can't". It's dishonest and corrupt, they're negotiating in bad faith. Full stop.

If every country operated like this nothing would get built. The iPhone can't be 40% domestically made in every country on Earth.

 

[JPack]

Indonesia said "we'll allow you sell your phone if you "invest" a billion dollars" and now is saying "thanks for the AirTag factory that the President of the country said would allow you to sell your phone, but sorry it doesn't actually count and you still can't". It's dishonest and corrupt, they're negotiating in bad faith. Full stop.

If every country operated like this nothing would get built. The iPhone can't be 40% domestically made in every country on Earth.

Nope, Indonesia has never moved the goal posts. They've always said 35% domestic content for smartphones.

Apple is the one trying to get an exception by building an AirTags assembly plant and hoping "investment" counts as domestic content. Why the heck would an AirTags plant nobody uses in Asia count? Apple knows it, that's why they proposed it.

Why do you think Apple is the only one having an issue with Indonesia while Xiaomi, Oppo, Vivo, and Samsung are cruising by? They each built a domestic plant nearly a decade ago now.

 

[surferfb]

Nope, Indonesia has never moved the goal posts. They've always said 35% domestic content for smartphones.

Apple is the one trying to get an exception by building an AirTags assembly plant and hoping "investment" counts as domestic content. Why the heck would an AirTags plant nobody uses in Asia count? Apple knows it, that's why they proposed it.

Why do you think Apple is the only one having an issue with Indonesia while Xiaomi, Oppo, Vivo, and Samsung are cruising by? They each built a domestic plant nearly a decade ago now.

They absolutely moved the goal posts - the President of Indonesia approved $1 billion (emphasis mine):

The Indonesian government had previously rejected Apple’s investment amount of $10 million and $100 million, and stated that the iPhone 16 sales ban will not be lifted until that figure has some additional zeros in it. Sure enough, the Cupertino giant agreed to inject a whopping $1 billion into the region, with President Prabowo having approved the amount, according to the latest report.

Edit to address your other comment:
It's a lot easier for Samsung, who for example, introduced 12 smartphone models in 2023, or Xiaomi, who introduced 14 smartphone models in 2023, to throw Indonesia a bone and build a device there than Apple, who introduced 4 smartphone models in 2023.

For all the complaints from many on MacRumors that there is a lack of competition in big tech, requiring companies to build their products in country seems like a really good way to insure only massive corporations are able to compete.

 

[I7guy]

Just as Apple has rules for doing business in its "country" (platform), Indonesia has rules for doing business in its country. If Apple isn't yet meeting things like Indonesia’s domestic content requirements then they shouldn't be allowed to do business there. If Apple feels Indonesia isn’t being clear enough with rules then perhaps they shouldn’t do business there.

I feel this is a very obvious and oft-talked about discussion.

 

[JPack]

They absolutely moved the goal posts - the President of Indonesia approved $1 billion (emphasis mine):

No primary source. Original source is from Bloomberg who claims info "according to people familiar with the matter."

To make it clear to everyone reading this post, Indonesia has not moved goalposts.

 

[JPack]

Edit to address your other comment:
It's a lot easier for Samsung, who for example, introduced 12 smartphone models in 2023, or Xiaomi, who introduced 14 smartphone models in 2023, to throw Indonesia a bone and build a device there than Apple, who introduced 4 smartphone models in 2023.

For all the complaints from many on MacRumors that there is a lack of competition in big tech, requiring companies to build their products in country seems like a really good way to insure only massive corporations are able to compete.

Not sure how that would be easier since they have to convince Indonesia all smartphones sold satisfy the 35%. Vivo sells a few dozen models and they don't all meet that requirement.

Apple could have said, we'll assemble SE4 in Indonesia for parts of SE Asia. Let us sell other iPhones because of that. Apple chose to propose AirTags. It's a sneaky way trying to get iPhone sales first.

 

[surferfb]

No primary source. Original source is from Bloomberg who claims info "according to people familiar with the matter."

To make it clear to everyone reading this post, Indonesia has not moved goalposts.

No offense intended, but I’m inclined to trust Bloomberg that the President agreed to the deal over a MacRumors poster defending a country shaking down foreign firms for cash like a mobster.

 

[JPack]

No offense intended, but I’m inclined to trust Bloomberg that the President agreed to the deal over a MacRumors poster defending a country shaking down foreign firms for cash like a mobster.

You want to believe fake news, that’s up to you. Common sense should tell you to expect a government representative public announcement rather than hearsay. Apple would have said something too.

Most of us still remember Bloomberg’s fabrication piece on Super Micro.

 

[surferfb]

You want to believe fake news, that’s up to you. Common sense should tell you to expect a government representative public announcement rather than hearsay. Apple would have said something too.

Most of us still remember Bloomberg’s fabrication piece on Super Micro.

If you want to believe government officials who are acting like mobsters ("If you want to sell in our territory, you need to make it worth our while") that's up to you.

I'd just note that four Indonesian government ministers have been convicted of corruption since November 2020, and a fifth is awaiting trial. Common sense should tell you that everything they are saying might not be above board. And that Apple calling them out publicly for changing the deal would likely make the next "agreed upon" deal even harder to make.

From a recent Wall Street Journal article about corruption in Indonesia:

Some Western businesses are leery of investing in Indonesia, given what they say are expectations of bribes by public-sector workers.

From the same article:

Indonesia is now ranked 115 out of 180 nations by Transparency International, an international nongovernmental organization that uses surveys to measure perceptions of corruption.

 

[UK-MacAddict]

The US is NOT joke. Not even close. The UK ... who knows but please stop the anti-US ranting. It's one thing to have to bear it from people from the third-world who have not experienced freedom but at least can dream of something different. It is worse when the pablum comes from supposed "educated" elites who have no appreciation of their own privilege (indeed the very privilege to speak freely) and lack the modicum of grace/appreciation of the past hardships and sacrifices that created the very freedom they so enjoy.

Things steeped in freedom -- like democracy, free markets, commitment to the rule of law -- are good things. These are not the kind of things found in many countries throughout the world. I agree that, at times, free countries may look quite chaotic. The last four years certainly qualifies. However, the big picture is that such turbulence is a feature of a free society, not a bug. So be grateful, not spiteful.

I very much appreciate past sacrifices to allow current freedoms. That was never the argument, governments are all shady and corrupt that's it.

Out of 592m population you're telling me Trump and Harris were best candidates lol. That is a joke.

 

[JPack]

If you want to believe government officials who are acting like mobsters ("If you want to sell in our territory, you need to make it worth our while") that's up to you.

I'd just note that four Indonesian government ministers have been convicted of corruption since November 2020, and a fifth is awaiting trial. Common sense should tell you that everything they are saying might not be above board. And that Apple calling them out publicly for changing the deal would likely make the next "agreed upon" deal even harder to make.

From a recent Wall Street Journal article about corruption in Indonesia:


From the same article:

Ok. So again, where is the government public announcement saying $1B was accepted by Indonesia?

Literally no government official said anything about accepting $1B.

Bloomberg has zero credibility on Indonesian matters.

It's the equivalent to the Times of India reporting on a policy to be announced by the Trump regime, "according to people familiar with the matter." When that turns out to be false, blaming the U.S. for moving goalposts.