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iPhone 3GS Has More Powerful PowerVR SGX 535 GPU?
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Well, a year from now the iPhone 3G will have been 2 years old. Just about everyone who has an iPhone 3G would be eligible to upgrade.
True, I also believe that the OS that supports it (OpenCL) won't run on the older hardware.
I could NOT agree more! I realize this is a Mac rumors forum but constant iPhone news causes me to reduce my time checking these sites. I have a 3G and 2nd generation iPod Touch and I play games on both - but only things like Paper Toss and Vegas Pool - and the Star Trek game - all relatively low-complexity games.
That being said maybe with OpenCL the extra horsepower will help even basic applications and speed if Apple allows the OS itself to take advantage of the multi-processor technology...
See - even I commented on the iPhone! I am slowly falling into the iPhone talk and I cannot stop myself!
D
Seems like someone familiar with this line of processors who has access to a couple different devices should be able to test this: (1) write an iPhone app that benchmarks the iPhone 3GS GPU, (2) write the equivalent benchmark app for a device with a known GPU, (3) compare.
I'm pretty much assuming Apple doesn't provide a reliable way to query an iPhone's GPU to find out what chip it is. If they do, so much the better.
I'm pretty much assuming Apple doesn't provide a reliable way to query an iPhone's GPU to find out what chip it is. If they do, so much the better.
We'd have to write fallbacks, yeah, but it's nothing new. The same is true with opengl es 1/2, but it's easy enough to add a check to see what is supported. The downside is you have to write a lot of your graphics code twice.
For openCL, you'd just have a CPU fallback. The code would be fairly similar at least (with opengl it's a totally different beast), so it wouldn't be too much work at a guess - it'd just run way slower on older hardware.
I, for one, have been waiting for this story to break. I've been asking this question around the forums for a while, but obviously there wasn't a whole lot of evidence about the GPU used by the 3GS. I likely just find this so interesting because I'm a nerdy grad student who studies computer graphics for a living, but the performance gap between the 520 and the 535 are significant. If the 535 is really the chip in the new iPhone, this really blows the roof off. It really, really, *really* opens the door for some incredible looking apps (both games and non-games).
I tell you, as a new 3GS owner having recently upgraded from a 2G phone, it's like Olympic running versus crawling out of a bar, half-drunk. I actually turn off Wi-Fi because I find that 3G was plenty fast in NYC. But, when at home and connected to WiFi, CNN.com pops up within 1sec.
I'm simply amazed and sooooo glad I skipped the 3G!
I'm simply amazed and sooooo glad I skipped the 3G!
You'd also have to ensure that the drivers were pretty near identical, and that the OS/cpu/everything else doesn't interfere. I.e. it's much harder than it sounds..
There's no way to query the exact GPU afaik, but it's easy to tell opengl es 1.x / 2.x parts. That's the important thing to know, after that it's just a case of how fast it is.
They should have used the 540.
Despite the fact that it seems to be common knowledge that the iPhone 3GS uses the latest PowerVR SGX graphics processors, the specifics have remained a bit of a mystery. In an in-depth "under the hood" analysis, Anandtech guessed that Apple uses the low end 520 model in the iPhone 3GS. The PowerVR SGX chips, however, have a range of models which each carry a different set of performance characteristics. The Palm Pre, for example, uses the SGX 530 designed for the handheld mobile market.
iPhone developers, however, have discovered that the iPhone 3GS has extension files named "IMGSGX535GLDriver" suggesting that the new iPhone uses the more powerful graphics processor intended for "high end" mobile devices. This may not be entirely conclusive evidence by itself but it is consistent with a report from a Anandtech commenter who claims to have heard directly from Apple engineers at WWDC that the iPhone 3GS does indeed use the SGX 535. As seen from the above list, the 535 seems to deliver much greater performance over the originally believed 520 model as well as the 530 model found in the Palm Pre.
Article Link: iPhone 3GS Has More Powerful PowerVR SGX 535 GPU?
Nope! The obsession here has been relentless since the iPhones inception! Just take a look and you'll see the largest percentage of front page news for the last year or more is iPhone elated. That's just the way it is here.
I am honestly finding myself having to charge my 32 gig 3GS the same amount of times as I was charging my 2G with the same application usage. Not impressed. I know that my 2G had great battery life left, and I am now wishing I stuck it out and waited for the next upgrade. I'm on Wifi at home and at the office, so the only time I'm accessing data/email via AT&T is while commuting or when I'm out. The 3G network is obviously faster than 2G Edge was, but again--it just drains the battery even more AND I'm paying $15 more a month just to have data during those times. I was excited over Tom-Tom coming to the Iphone (especially when I heard you can download Homer's voice!
) but obviously that will be even more of a battery hog. I just don't get the hype, sorry I tried. And I'm still bitter over my Vibe Duo answer call/track buttons not functioning properly on the 3Gs.Enjoy. You are discovering a world of GPS maps, fast Internet, that many are enjoying for over one year already. Next year, when I upgrade to the iPhone 4G OpenCL, I will be as glad as you are now
I was thinking the exact same thing. All this talk of super-GPUs gets me giddy.
I knew there was a reason I got mine on launch day! All I need now if an optimised version of F.A.S.T and I'm all set
Hands down the best game or iPod / iPhone. Papertoss comes second.
Or just not support it on the older models. We have already seen that with the video capability on the 3G vs. 3GS. Jailbroke 3G phones have this capability, so it can be done, they just chose not to do it. I also hear that the Nike + was only a BT function, still the 3G does not support or have it.
Planned obsolescence, just like every other cell phone provider.
As someone else pointed out it would just fall back to the CPU. The GPU in the 3G and iPod touch can't support OpenCL. They don't support shaders (nevermind unified shaders).
We will likely see dual core or more ARM based devices relatively soon.
The interesting thing is that you where talking to the GCD guys. It looks like a case of loose lips, it's too bad you couldn't corner them with regards to SMP support in future devices. I would suspect that a dual core approach would yield the widest advantages to developers but at the same time allow for tight power management.
Note the reason I see Dual Core ARM coming even in light of an OpenCL compliant platform is that the GPU is only good at accelerating certain types of code. Dual core ARM allows Apple to build powerfull devices but also manage power in a way it couldn't on a single core device.
Another thing to note is that apparently Apple worked directly with Imagination to produce OpenCL compliant GPUs. I would have to say the writting is literal on the wall here. Sooner or later we will have OpenCL operating on hand held devices. Some place in all of this is the Neon and other capabilities that ARM may be suppling in this hardware.
The use of cores should not be a user concern just like it isn't on the Mac.
It is looking very good indeed. I'm just wondering how far they will be able to go with the coming fall iPod refresh. It would be nice to see that SMP machine with OpenCL support in September.
Dave
That is good to hear. Not that it means a huge thing to me right now for the code I have in mind. Good for apps from others though.
OpenCL implies acceleration via the GPU. I'm not sure if the 535 is OpenCL compliant, only a few of the very new Imagination core are. So I'm not sure if this is projecting technology coming for the iPhone GS or other devices in the pipeline.
The interesting thing is that you where talking to the GCD guys. It looks like a case of loose lips, it's too bad you couldn't corner them with regards to SMP support in future devices. I would suspect that a dual core approach would yield the widest advantages to developers but at the same time allow for tight power management.
My personal opinion is that Apple will introduce dual core on a coming iPod Touch device. The device will be focused more on gaming thus the need for the extra core. Of course gaming also implies a better GPU so it may be OpenCL compatible too. In any event some place on the web you can find out which Imagination cores are OpenCL compliant.
Note the reason I see Dual Core ARM coming even in light of an OpenCL compliant platform is that the GPU is only good at accelerating certain types of code. Dual core ARM allows Apple to build powerfull devices but also manage power in a way it couldn't on a single core device.
Another thing to note is that apparently Apple worked directly with Imagination to produce OpenCL compliant GPUs. I would have to say the writting is literal on the wall here. Sooner or later we will have OpenCL operating on hand held devices. Some place in all of this is the Neon and other capabilities that ARM may be suppling in this hardware.
not at all! OpenCL support should be built into the app by the developer and the use of whatever supported cores are available should be transparent to the user. The goal is to harvest the available resources transparently to the user.
The use of cores should not be a user concern just like it isn't on the Mac.
Yes!
It is looking very good indeed. I'm just wondering how far they will be able to go with the coming fall iPod refresh. It would be nice to see that SMP machine with OpenCL support in September.
Dave
you are on MACRUMORS....and the iPhone is at the height of the news for apple right now. all you had to do was keep scrolling on down the page. i however, love hearing good news about the new device i just bought. makes me feel better about buying it!
You'd need the PowerVR SGX 543 for that - that has OpenCL support designed into it's enhanced shaders (over the 520/530/535/540).
As for the 535 in the 3GS - it could be running at a slow speed to preserve power. It's 4x more powerful per clock than the previously rumoured 520, but if it's running at half the clock than was guessed at ...
Still, someone will find out eventually.
Edit: I believe the 535 is also the graphics core used in Intel's GMA500, as used in the integrated low-end chipsets for Atom.