iPhone 4 may be dropping as many as 100% more calls than iPhone 3GS

[cube]

If I can compute the limit of 1/x as x->0+, it means I can compute the limit of 1/x as x->0+. It doesn't mean I can compute 1/x when x=0.

If you have an imperfect phone and a perfect phone, you can definitely say the former is worse than the latter. So, how many times worse?

 

[eawmp1]

Ah, but therein lies the rub. Why is "less negative" inherently "more fair"? The two are very different things. You have your assessment of how negative the data is, I have mine. None of us is entitled to state objectively whether the way Jobs represented the data is as "negative" as the data itself. This is a pointlessly subjective discussion.

This thread is a pointless discussion...one in which you continually stoke the fire. You must be feeling quite smug now.

Steve Jobs said the iPhone 4 drops less than 1 more call per hundred. For rounding purpose, let's say it drops 1 more call per hundred.

If the 3GS dropped 1 per 100, the iPhone 4 would drop 2 per 100. A 100% increase.
If the 3GS dropped 98 per 100, the iPhone 4 99 per 100: a 1.02% increase.

I agree these extreme percentages are meaningless from a practical user standpoint, in both cases 1 more call is a negligible difference to have any real impact and cause any actual inconvenience.

The bottom line however is that it drops MORE, and Apple ADMITTED it. In disclosing this data, Apple acknowledged the iPhone 4 is not an improvement over the 3GS in terms of dropped calls rate.

It does not matter how much more as long as it's more.

Do I believe its other features and improvements far outweigh this particular drawback? Absolutely? Do I wish Apple would improve this in the near future? Absolutely too.

THIS!!!
To the OP, I will agree that of the 3GS absolute number per hundred is 1, then an increase to 2 IS 100% more in the iPhone 4. However, you are being dishonest in your continued harangue. Because when you take the aggregate number of calls dropped (all users, all dropped calls) the correct increase in dropped calls is 1%. If the person with 1 original dropped call on the 3GS had 2 back to back calls (statistically improbable, but not impossible), goes on to make 2 more calls, you would have to admit the chances of getting even 1 of 2 of this calls to drop is increasingly unlikely.

 

[dvrk547]

If you have an imperfect phone and a perfect phone, you can definitely say the former is worse than the latter. So, how many times worse?

Yes, if the former phone drops 1 call out of 1 billion calls and the latter phone drops zero call out of 1 billion calls, I think the former is "1/1,000,000,000 dropped call" worse than the latter.

 

[Yinmay]

For me, I think it's 1% increase in both cases. I think we should use linear difference here.

Ok whatever you prefer. That's what I'm trying to argue: it doesn't matter whether it's a 1% or 200% increase, it doesn't matter how you calculate, it doesn't matter how you measure it or which referral you use, it's still an increase.

Translated into normal every day words it means that Apple admitted that when it comes to not dropping calls, the 3GS performs BETTER than the iPhone 4.

Is it disappointing? I hope everyone agrees that yes it is.
Is it unacceptable and does it warrant all this drama that has been spreading on the internet? No.

 

[cube]

Yes, if the former phone drops 1 call out of 1 billion calls and the latter phone drops zero call out of 1 billion calls, I think the former is "1/1,000,000,000 dropped call" worse than the latter.

How many times is the design worse?

 

[tatonka]

Great thread .. nice that you found a "official" number of dropped calls to put it in perspective.
I agree that Steve clearly said ~1 dropped call more in a hundred calls, not 1 percent point more. So a ~100% increase over the 3Gs.

To all those people stating that 2 dropped calls in hundred is not a problem. This number is an average over a very large number of customers and reception scenarios. While in one area you may not feel the effect at all other places will become completely useless and that may be your desk or home another place you often want to place a call from.
People in large metropolitan areas are already complaining a lot about dropped call rates of more than 10%. Double that and 1 in 5 calls ends abruptly ..

Statistic is a bitch.

T.

PS: I do agree however .. if you are hit by this problem due to where you live .. return the damn phone. There will be no other fix for you.

 

[Max(IT)]

You are so incredible, trying so hard to bash iPhone and everything Jobs say.
Very incredible.

How many dropped calls do I experience with my 3GS (bought at day one) ? Actually NONE I CAN REMEMBER OF ! To be honest maybe 2-3 in a year, I don't know, but the whole discussion is utterly RIDICOLOUS. iPhone 4 could drop 4 calls in the same time frame ? Who the hell cares !?!

I honestly think you American are frustrated by a crappy At&T network, and someone in this forum is using that to bash an apple product, once more.

 

[Max(IT)]

Great thread .. nice that you found a "official" number of dropped calls to put it in perspective.
I agree that Steve clearly said ~1 dropped call more in a hundred calls, not 1 percent point more. So a ~100% increase over the 3Gs.

To all those people stating that 2 dropped calls in hundred is not a problem. This number is an average over a very large number of customers and reception scenarios. While in one area you may not feel the effect at all other places will become completely useless and that may be your desk or home another place you often want to place a call from.
People in large metropolitan areas are already complaining a lot about dropped call rates of more than 10%. Double that and 1 in 5 calls ends abruptly ..

Statistic is a bitch.

T.

PS: I do agree however .. if you are hit by this problem due to where you live .. return the damn phone. There will be no other fix for you.

Due to my job I literally travel all around the World on a weekly basis, and I NEVER had experienced such a high rate of dropped calls you are bitching about (1 in 5 calls, RIDICULOUS!!!).
As I said before, actually I cannot remember my iPhone to dropped calls at all.

 

[vant]

The problem is, the dropped call statistic could have been non-hardware related. It could have been due to network congestion, case usage (as Jobs said), user error (intentionally dropping calls to reproduce the death grip), etc.

Looking at this one statistic and stating that the iPhone 4 has antenna issues is ignorance.

 

[tatonka]

Due to my job I literally travel all around the World on a weekly basis, and I NEVER had experienced such a high rate of dropped calls you are bitching about (1 in 5 calls, RIDICULOUS!!!).
As I said before, actually I cannot remember my iPhone to dropped calls at all.

First of all .. hit a nerve or something .. I was merely stating some statistics .. no reason to become all offensive.
Second I suggest you start reading the posts before becoming all offended.

I wasn't bitching about anything. I was refering to Apples responses about the dropped call rates and applied the 100% increase that was suggested by many other in this thread here.
Here is a link to the ridicoulus 22% call drop rates (and that is before tampering with it in any way).
https://www.macrumors.com/iphone/20...ate-of-30-considered-normal-in-new-york-city/

But before you get all offended again. I know this has more to do with the network than the phone. But if you are in a metropolitan area like that and your reception decreases, then you will suffer an increased dropped call rate and Apples stastic showed that people do.

T.

 

[Max(IT)]

First of all .. hit a nerve or something .. I was merely stating some statistics .. no reason to become all offensive.
Second I suggest you start reading the posts before becoming all offended.

I wasn't bitching about anything. I was refering to Apples responses about the dropped call rates and applied the 100% increase that was suggested by many other in this thread here.
Here is a link to the ridicoulus 22% call drop rates (and that is before tampering with it in any way).
https://www.macrumors.com/iphone/20...ate-of-30-considered-normal-in-new-york-city/

But before you get all offended again. I know this has more to do with the network than the phone. But if you are in a metropolitan area like that and your reception decreases, then you will suffer an increased dropped call rate and Apples stastic showed that people do.

T.

It wasn't you, it is all this BS about a non-issue storming the forum in the last three weeks...

Your link is nothing more than a demonstration of how weak and crappy is your AT&T network, considering a 22% failure rate as "normal"

And for your information I actually live in a metropolitan area (that little city called Rome, do you know ? ), and there isn't any significant dropped call rate here.

 

[Yinmay]

The problem is, the dropped call statistic could have been non-hardware related. It could have been due to network congestion, case usage (as Jobs said), user error (intentionally dropping calls to reproduce the death grip), etc.

Don't take everything Jobs says for granted. If a phone needs a case in order not to drop calls, it's a hardware issue. "Case usage" as Jobs points out only hides the issue and explains why the 3GS seems to drop calls less often than the iPhone 4. But it doesn't change the fact that both phones tend to drop calls more often when used without a case. I believe that's a problem. Steve Jobs calls it "a challenge to the entire industry", others (like RIM) argued that it's an Apple only issue.

Either way I should only have to use a case to protect my phone from scratches and falls. I should NOT have to use one just to make sure that the primary function of the phone works.

Manufacturers should design phones without the assumption that customers will use a case. The fact the CEO of a phone maker publicly explains that case usage has been affecting the calling performance of his phone and offers free cases as possible fix troubles and disappoints me.

 

[M-5]

Don't take everything Jobs says for granted. If a phone needs a case in order not to drop calls, it's a hardware issue. "Case usage" as Jobs points out only hides the issue and explains why the 3GS seems to drop calls less often than the iPhone 4. But it doesn't change the fact that both phones tend to drop calls more often when used without a case. I believe that's a problem. Steve Jobs calls it "a challenge to the entire industry", others (like RIM) argued that it's an Apple only issue.

Either way I should only have to use a case to protect my phone from scratches and falls. I should NOT have to use one just to make sure that the primary function of the phone works.

Manufacturers should design phones without the assumption that customers will use a case. The fact the CEO of a phone maker publicly explains that case usage has been affecting the calling performance of his phone and offers free cases as possible fix troubles and disappoints me.

I don't use a case, and I don't need one to make calls and keep them from dropping. Steve Jobs isn't selling the phone that only works properly with a case, and him and the two other Apple VPs on stage pulled out their naked iPhones when asked if they themselves used a case.

A case isn't a requirement, but having an extra shell of plastic is obviously going to help the issue some are having. And being that most use cases on their 3GS to actually protect the phone rather than being required to to make the phone function properly, they are also inadvertently getting the benefit of less interference their hand might cause. It would be unfair to compare the performance of the 3GS users who mostly use cases to iPhone 4 users who are less likely to be using one.

So Jobs wasn't stating that a case is necessary, but if you want similar results to their previous phones, then variables such as case use should be consistent.

 

[solarein]

To the OP, I will agree that of the 3GS absolute number per hundred is 1, then an increase to 2 IS 100% more in the iPhone 4. However, you are being dishonest in your continued harangue. Because when you take the aggregate number of calls dropped (all users, all dropped calls) the correct increase in dropped calls is 1%.

This makes no sense whatsoever. 100% increase in dropped calls is the aggregate number.

If the person with 1 original dropped call on the 3GS had 2 back to back calls (statistically improbable, but not impossible), goes on to make 2 more calls, you would have to admit the chances of getting even 1 of 2 of this calls to drop is increasingly unlikely.

Completely incorrect. The probability of each call being dropped is independent of other calls.

 

[eawmp1]

The probability of each call being dropped is independent of other calls.

Of course it is...each call has an equal probability of being dropped. But again, you are just being argumentative for argument's sake.