iPhone 4 Signal Declines While Being Held? A Longstanding Issue?

[Zander-Fragile]

yeah, you have one phone to test. Did you ever think that maybe yours is defective? Have all the calls you've tried to make been in the same place? Maybe go to another side of town to do some actual testing.


Again, this is the internet. It's full of fools.

Bahooki isn't claiming that every single phone will demonstrate the exact same issues. He and others are reported their personal experience with the iPhone. You're the one who wants to postulate about the percentage of phones affected, suggesting that is very few out of the total set of phones in circulation. I presume this is motivated by some strange need to protect Apple, perhaps because you identify with the company on some level. Of course, no one can know the percentage of phones affected yet. But to me, unscientifically, it seems strange that so many people are reporting the same problem (to the extent that calls will be dropped) before the official launch date. Tomorrow things should be much clearer.

PS I study the philosophy of science and I'd rather not hear your pedestrian musings on scientific methodology.

 

[Mr. Retrofire]

I think, that it is a known fact for > 100 years, that if you stand near an antenna, that you suck up the emitted energy to some degree. If you touch it directly, like in the case of the iPhone 4, you can suck up large amounts of energy.

 

[TennisandMusic]

yeah, you have one phone to test. Did you ever think that maybe yours is defective? Have all the calls you've tried to make been in the same place? Maybe go to another side of town to do some actual testing.


Again, this is the internet. It's full of fools.

Yeah but...how can you insist that it's not a widespread problem? If you are suggesting "the scientific method" to determine if this is a huge problem, you can't just assume it's not one. Right? You are mocking people that have a problem, but since we don't have real data, we can't really say what's going on. What we do know is there are now several several videos demonstrating the problem in a repeatable fashion (that's fairly close to the scientific method isn't it?). That's the best we have, and on top of that the "problem" is at least based on a scientific "property" (radio interference). I don't see the need to say the internet is full of fools and obviously this is not widespread. None of us REALLY know what the situation is. You saying it's not big, is the same thing as people saying there are no problems, just in the opposite direction. No?

As someone who had two of the current 27" iMac's only to see the screen quality was abysmal, I get a chuckle out of people that still insist the screen problems are only visible to anal retentive people, or that they are imagining things. It's simply not the case. I don't see why the same thing can't be happening here really. Time will tell...

 

[wschutz]

Thank god we have one person's anecdote as definitive proof of a widespread major issue!

This is a design flaw... you cannot fight the physics of signals and impedance It doesn't matter whether it's one or two or hundreds... the problem will be there for every single unit unless the design is changed (unlikely). Some will notice this problem because the signal strength of the area won't be good enough for this problem, and some won't...

Now those protectors that Apple is selling make sense... I guess that at some no-return point of the development, Apple realised of the problem... and they came up with this sort-of solution...

Enjoy your new iPhone 4, which changes everything... indeed it does... now you have a smartphone without phone capabilities which will probably affect data transmission over 3G

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

This is a design flaw... you cannot fight the physics of signals and impedance It doesn't matter whether it's one or two or hundreds... the problem will be there for every single unit unless the design is changed (unlikely). Some will notice this problem because the signal strength of the area won't be good enough for this problem, and some won't...

Enjoy your new iPhone 4, which changes everything... indeed it does... now you have a smartphone without phone capabilities which will probably affect data transmission over 3G

Your an expert on radio transmission? I doubt Apple would implement such a major design flaw if anyone could just spot it and immediately identify it as a design flaw.

 

[Coolero]

Don't hold the phone with your palm gripping the lower left edge. The web page won't load. Now take your hand off the lower left edge and watch the page load. Happens all time.

If you're the type that holds the phone with your left hand while scrolling/clicking with your left thumb, then this will affect you.

 

[SeaFox]

Actually, I was wondering about this.

I have a Nokia phone that has a small metal rectangle plate on the back with the Nokia logo on it. The plate isn't part of the outer (replaceable) faceplate. It's actually part of the phone itself. The owners manual actually says this is part of the phone's antenna and warns you that touching it while on calls will affect reception and lower battery life (because the phone has to use more transmitter power to get a good signal).

When I heard the iPhone was doing this metal-band-around-the-edge-antenna thing I wondered if the iPhone would have the same issue. Also, unlike the small nameplate on the back of my Nokia, it's pretty much impossible to avoid touching the edge of the iPhone and maintain a good grip on it at the same time.

 

[Lord Vader]

Your an expert on radio transmission? I doubt Apple would implement such a major design flaw if anyone could just spot it and immediately identify it as a design flaw.

I'm with you on this one. I refuse to believe that Apple missed or ignored this, or they offer those plastic bumpers for a reason.

 

[TennisandMusic]

I'm with you on this one. I refuse to believe that Apple missed or ignored this, or they offer those plastic bumpers for a reason.

By the same token, they are still shipping iMac's with horrendously yellow screens, 9 months after the fact or so? They know about that one for sure (and based on their patent write ups, knew about it well beforehand). I know it sucks, and I know we don't want to believe it (I don't want too), but it's not without precedent, and I'm not sure there is really any other explanation?

 

[bahooki]

Don't hold the phone with your palm gripping the lower left edge. The web page won't load. Now take your hand off the lower left edge and watch the page load. Happens all time.

If you're the type that holds the phone with your left hand while scrolling/clicking with your left thumb, then this will affect you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03PQyWp0mWE

You and the guy in the video have helped me narrow it down perfectly. If my hand is near that bottom left corner, my bars recede to 0 and all data and cell traffic ceases. If I hold the phone in my right hand and make sure my fingers don't wrap underneath the lower left, no dropped calls or loss of signal.

I have no idea if that constitutes a design flaw or not, but it's a big damn problem that a lot of people are going to see.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

By the same token, they are still shipping iMac's with horrendously yellow screens, 9 months after the fact or so? They know about that one for sure (and based on their patent write ups, knew about it well beforehand). I know it sucks, and I know we don't want to believe it (I don't want too), but it's not without precedent, and I'm not sure there is really any other explanation?

Apple patented yellow displays?

 

[TennisandMusic]

Apple patented yellow displays?

No, they actually talk about how displays can be yellow because of certain LED lighting techniques in one of the patents for the current iMac. They knew about it. Then shipped it anyway. No need for a snarky response, none of this is made up.

 

[markymarc]

I just wanted to share with everyone a few more things that I've been able to replicate here in Los Angeles.

#1 -After getting the iphone today, I started to realize that I was dropping calls more than usual. Was kinda bummed, but thought it might have been my office.

#2 On the drive home I dropped calls alot (i happened to be holding the phone while driving but talking hands free)

#3 I live in the flats of Beverly Hills, and due to really shoddy reception had gotten a Micro Cell. I was never able to use my 3GS at home until getting the m-cell and it really is awesome.. Gave me solid bars and never dropped one call. ATT even gave me a credit towards it.

#4 - Cut to today when I got home and was shocked and really bummed to see that my reception was WORSE with the iphone 4. So I called ATT.. they escalated the call to their second tier. She confirmed I was her first call on the phone.

She was puzzled because being on the micro-cell is about as great as a connection as possible since it connects you via the internet. so no tower issues, and hence there should be solid bars (like wifi)

So after checking with a few people she asked me to try an experiment.. She asked me to lay the phone down.. I did and voila- 5 bars. Then she asked me to pick it up in my LEFT hand.. and guess what? went to 0 bars.

She confided that she surmised that this was the issue and very gingerly directed me to Gizmodo.. and sure enough the issue was raised and raised and raised.

So bottom line is that it is DEFINITELY NOT a software issue. It's reproducible consistently. And saddens me to say as a lifelong fanguy, Apple's going to become a Baked Apple, if this is the case..

Also, in addition to the phone losing reception while being held in the left hand, there's not internet access, nothing..

So hope that sheds some light.. Oh and the kicker was I called the Apple store.. He went from "EXCITED" when I told him i had the new phone to "CONDESCENDING AND SNIPPY" when I alluded that ATT helped me discover it was the handheld human touch error. He didn't believe me and said "Doubtful".. this will pass, but wow, what a contrast of emotion from anticipated excitement to sudden disappointment.

 

[iStudentUK]

By the same token, they are still shipping iMac's with horrendously yellow screens, 9 months after the fact or so? They know about that one for sure (and based on their patent write ups, knew about it well beforehand). I know it sucks, and I know we don't want to believe it (I don't want too), but it's not without precedent, and I'm not sure there is really any other explanation?

Here, here. People make mistakes, companies make mistakes. Despite Apple's near cult status with many people they make errors too.

Maybe they did know, but calculated that the larger area would outweigh the issue of shorting/coverage? And maybe that calculation is wrong.

I don't know, but I always smile at the fanboys who seem to take personal offence if Apple and the Mighty-Steve are questioned!

 

[superknoppix]

its magical.... lol
I can't wait to get my iPhone 4!!!
"I'm sorry your breaking up!!!. I'm driving through a tunnel (picks up iPhone, drops call...)"
Perfect for getting outta conversations with your mother-in-law.

 

[locust76]

Pay 400 bucks for a snazzy new phone, pay 30 bucks for a rubber bumper to actually use the phone for communications purposes.

 

[taltal]

doesn't happen here in Switzerland with my iphone 3g. Maybe a AT&T issue?

nor have i heard of dropped calls etc. here in Switzerland.

I have an iPhone 3GS with iOS 4 running on Orange Switzerland. I have massive reception problems with iOS 4.

 

[azazel-]

Thanks to those that read and understood... you guys are teh great hope for humanity. Please have children.

To those that are struggling to understand why their shiny new iPhone is still a cell phone, and susceptible to the limitations of all cell phones, just step back and try to imagine that you are missing some crucial understanding of the situation... imagine that you are making sweeping and unsupported observations about all cell phones, even though you only have a single phone. Try to get it into your imagination, first... and then open your eyes and realize this is what you are doing. You're saying "it should do this, and it shouldn't do this" yet you are basing everything you are saying on the one phone in front of you. Don't you see that everything is nonsense unless you have at least two phones. Only then can you even begin to hypothesize, and only just hypothesize. To actually be able to make an intelligent, informed judgement, you need... well, I don't want to confuse you, but you need a lot more cell phones.

In 15 years of consistent, multi-carrier cell phone usage, I have never owned a cell phone, or for that matter even seen a cell phone that completely dropped all signal strength from merely touching the case, or picking it up. To suggest that this is a normal occurrence is utterly preposterous. Some signal loss, fine. I'll bite. But to completely drop all signal from handling the device? I'm sorry, no.

It may not be a big deal, or it might be an easy fix. But to sit here and say that this is normal is idiotic and insulting to the nth degree.

 

[Lord Vader]

By the same token, they are still shipping iMac's with horrendously yellow screens, 9 months after the fact or so? They know about that one for sure (and based on their patent write ups, knew about it well beforehand). I know it sucks, and I know we don't want to believe it (I don't want too), but it's not without precedent, and I'm not sure there is really any other explanation?

They are not the makers of those panels are they?

 

[TennisandMusic]

You know...this is of course speculation, but I would not be surprised one iota if Apple engineers strongly recommended against this design, but Steve Jobs insisted it be done. Remember, he called it "brilliant engineering" in his presser. I'm pretty sure any engineer that knew about this would not consider it brilliant. But it looks very pretty, so based on that I can see Steve insisting on it, and of course if it bothers anyone, they can buy a 30 dollar plastic bumper. I've worked with people like this. People who think their ideas are so brilliant (even though they may be blatantly terrible), and at the same time are the ones calling the shots. So everyone else has to play along while rolling their eyes. If Steve thinks it's brilliant to make a super rigid phone using steel as the frame AND the antenna, then people would have to play along. Again, all just speculation, but knowing his personality type, and having plenty of experience with that kind of thing in the real world it certainly seems at least plausible.

These problems with all of these products being released pains me as a developer. I've pretty much committed to OSX, but man is it embarrassing sometimes. iMac screens, Mac Pro firewire audio problems, new Macbook Pro's freezing, and now this with the iPhone 4. I know Apple has been experiencing a meteoric rise, but they have GOT to get ahold of this kind of thing. It will eventually bite them in the rear, and people like me as a result...

 

[TennisandMusic]

They are not the makers of those panels ar they?

LG makes the IPS panel, but I believe Apple designed the LED lighting system. Dell offers a monitor using the same exact IPS panel that is CCFL backlit instead of LED, and it does not demonstrate the yellowing. The actual lcd panel, and lighting system are different things.

 

[wschutz]

I'm with you on this one. I refuse to believe that Apple missed or ignored this, or they offer those plastic bumpers for a reason.

Believe what you want... but if you remember, that "lost" iPhone was enclosed in a case... and probably most of the field tests were done with some kind of enclosure given Apple's secrecy...
I wouldn't be surprised that they did very little testing without enclosure and out of the lab...

For me, it makes perfect sense... the phone works but under certain conditions which they didn't test properly, it doesn't as it is expected... they realised it was too late to halt the development as they have forced themselves to release a brand new design every year... so... they went ahead and created the bumpers Of course I'm speculating

Though we'll have more info today about this possible design flaw

 

[Zander-Fragile]

I notice that TuffLuffJimmy remains silent to substantial replies or comments. What do you make of markymark's comments?

 

[michaelz]

I could reproduce same problem on my iPhone 3G. It could be an issues with all iPhones. iPhone 4's new design may not cause the problem. Interesting, I never realized my iPhone 3G's signal bar drops when I hold it in my hand, until today after read this post.

 

[Mad Mac]

Read some of the comments on this site: http://www.intomobile.com/2010/06/0...-antenna-for-wifi-gps-bluetooth-gsm3g-badass/

Some comments as far back as 2 weeks ago questioned the effectiveness of having the antennas on the outside and it seems like they might be right.

Riddle me this: If by holding the phone and bridging the antennas is no big deal and accounted for, then why did Apple put in the seams to keep the antennas separated?