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For the record I have no issues with the US per say. My original post started because I found it surprising that they even had an iPhone 4 announcement for the CDMA network. I am doing comparisons between CDMA and UMTS 3G, and if Australia saw fit to dump CDMA years ago with a smaller population and replaced this technology with a newer version, why hadn't the US done this before us? Hence why I was surprised to hear of a CDMA phone launch for Verizon.

If CDMA is so good, why did Australia only keep it for a short amount of time before replacing it with UMTS 3G? Personally, the only advantage I can see with CDMA is no SIM card so the handset time and date etc is set by the network. Notice Australia don't launch a CDMA handset for any mobile provider, because its no longer supported.

It looks like Telstra (Formerly Telecom Australia) had the foresight to upgrade quickly after CDMA to bridge the gap so to speak and then they announced the CDMA network would be shut down. Makes me ponder why the US never took a similar route. In summary I thought the US would be on UMTS 3G as Australia is, and I'm only comparing the US with Australia.

BTW: At least here in Australia we can purchase a mobile outright and unlocked - no contracts, unlike the US.

You are either a troll or you really don't care to understand your own history.

There was no "foresight" that you speak of. It was a government mandate that your telco's adopt certain technologies. And it was largely done as a direct copycat exercise of what was happening in Europe.

There is nothing original about your telco infrastructure. Your telco's have no choice in how they operate, and you have precious few in which services are available to you and, more importantly, how you USE them. You gave up your freedom of expression and choice in favor of letting your government take care of you. Enjoy it....hope getting rid of your own choice was worth it.
 
In summary I thought the US would be on UMTS 3G as Australia is, and I'm only comparing the US with Australia.
In summary:

The US is on UMTS 3G, as Australia is. They had the iPhone 3G before Australia.
The US is on LTE (4G), as Australia has yet to do.
The US is on WiMax (4G), as Australia will probably never do.
The US is on CDMA, as Australia once was.

Oh, and in regards to the CDMA iPhone:

As expected, Apple intends making a version of its CDMA iPhone available for sale in Japan, South Koreaa, China, India and other countries, leaks from within its supply chain have confirmed. Apple also expectds to sell several milloin of these new devices in the first quarter 2011.
http://www.9to5mac.com/47126/leaks-...Apple+Intelligence)&utm_content=Google+Reader
 
This thread brought back memories from long ago - Was driving down from New Hampshire in the early 90's and heard the announcement that the FCC has decided, after long deliberation, on the new mobile standard (after tdma?) for the U.S - basically "let the market decide".

I wept then and I was right as that one decision (or lack of) basically put back the U.S. mobile market by at least 10 years. By failing to adopt GSM, which by then was almost universal, really hampered growth of the mobile network in the U.S. - hell for years you couldn't even text between networks. I even had a VP of a major U.S. carrier that text messaging had no future in the U.S. as everyone was going to use IM!

Even had an American friend of mine over from the U.S. at Christmas who wondered why his lovely CDMA phone wouldn't work over here. Went into a Vodafone store and bought him a pre pay phone and sim for €40 and got him on the air.

CDMA should have died 20 years ago. It was, and still is, primarily a U.S. technology (ok a couple of other countries us it but nothing like GSM) and rarely seen outside the borders of the U.S. Maybe with 4G/LTE etc we'll eventually see convergence and we won't care any more but I'm not holding my breath.

My 2 cents!
 
This thread brought back memories from long ago - Was driving down from New Hampshire in the early 90's and heard the announcement that the FCC has decided, after long deliberation, on the new mobile standard (after tdma?) for the U.S - basically "let the market decide".

I wept then and I was right as that one decision (or lack of) basically put back the U.S. mobile market by at least 10 years. By failing to adopt GSM, which by then was almost universal, really hampered growth of the mobile network in the U.S. - hell for years you couldn't even text between networks. I even had a VP of a major U.S. carrier that text messaging had no future in the U.S. as everyone was going to use IM!

Even had an American friend of mine over from the U.S. at Christmas who wondered why his lovely CDMA phone wouldn't work over here. Went into a Vodafone store and bought him a pre pay phone and sim for €40 and got him on the air.

CDMA should have died 20 years ago. It was, and still is, primarily a U.S. technology (ok a couple of other countries us it but nothing like GSM) and rarely seen outside the borders of the U.S. Maybe with 4G/LTE etc we'll eventually see convergence and we won't care any more but I'm not holding my breath.

My 2 cents!

:rolleyes:
 
By failing to adopt GSM, which by then was almost universal, really hampered growth of the mobile network in the U.S.
What do you mean with "by failing to adopt GSM"? Half of US major wireless adopted GSM from virtually day one. :?

As for "putting back the US market for 10 years", the carriers that adopted CDMA brought 3G data speeds to the US in 2003, about three years before the rest of the world started rolling out their 3G HSPA networks. That's forwards, not backwards!

And oddly enough, the US' biggest CDMA carrier is currently in the position to have implemented (and is currently selling) LTE 4G services in certain markets, ahead of many parts of the world.

It was, and still is, primarily a U.S. technology (ok a couple of other countries us it but nothing like GSM) and rarely seen outside the borders of the U.S.
What?

Of the half-of-a-billion CDMA subscribers, 70% of them are outside of the US!
http://www.cdg.org/worldwide/cdma_world_subscriber.asp
 
Who cares Which technology our phones r on? For crying out loud, we can't even switch to the metric system properly. And what's a dual flush toilet?
 
As for "putting back the US market for 10 years", the carriers that adopted CDMA brought 3G data speeds to the US in 2003, about three years before the rest of the world started rolling out their 3G HSPA networks. That's forwards, not backwards!

Another time I really wish we had a "like" or a reputation feature in MR.
 
I never post, but I say let's move on from this thread. The OP is obviously retarded. He compeletely ignores any and all posts made that contain actual facts about the different networks and technologies and continues to spit out the same dribble time and time again. People keep trying to get him to look at the facts, and he pointedly looks away...
 
I never post, but I say let's move on from this thread. The OP is obviously retarded. He compeletely ignores any and all posts made that contain actual facts about the different networks and technologies and continues to spit out the same dribble time and time again. People keep trying to get him to look at the facts, and he pointedly looks away...
True.

I just unsubscribed. :cool:
 
Not from day one. Verizon was almost half the country and it wasn't GSM. Even then, when U.S. operators adopted GSM they adopted "their version" of it. Some had no SMS support, others when they did only supported 100 character message length instead of the standard 160. Later on when text messaging started to take off the FCC mandated that ALL text messages sent to a phone in the us from a bulk messager had to go though a unique short code. This greatly hampered the rollout of text services.

I could go on and on. As for CDMA - compared to GSM its not even in the penny piss park. Get a list of all the countries that support GSM, then get a lost of all the operators in those countries that support GSM , then add it all up. Plus outside the U.S. GSM is GSM is GSM. I can go to any GMS country, get off the plane, switch on my phone and away I go. Can't do that with CDMA.

My point is that IF the U.S. had mandated a standard mobile technology (like other countries) then the market in the U.S. would be a lot further along than it is now.

Decisions made 10, 20 years ago have had a very negative impact on the mobile landscape in the U.S.





What do you mean with "by failing to adopt GSM"? Half of US major wireless adopted GSM from virtually day one. :?

As for "putting back the US market for 10 years", the carriers that adopted CDMA brought 3G data speeds to the US in 2003, about three years before the rest of the world started rolling out their 3G HSPA networks. That's forwards, not backwards!

And oddly enough, the US' biggest CDMA carrier is currently in the position to have implemented (and is currently selling) LTE 4G services in certain markets, ahead of many parts of the world.


What?

Of the half-of-a-billion CDMA subscribers, 70% of them are outside of the US!
http://www.cdg.org/worldwide/cdma_world_subscriber.asp
 
No, you're saying Telstra is using UMTS while Verizon is still using CDMA, but Verizon doesn't represent the entire US. AT&T has been on UMTS for a while now.

Holy Moly

I started world war 3 here. All I am saying is that Australia uses a more advanced version of CDMA, commonly referred to UTMS, which means we dont have to manufacture "customised" version of the iPhone for a CDMA network. All our mobiles from whatever manufacturer all work on UMTS 3G either via Optus or Telstra. Im indicating that US CDMA network should be on UMTS or equivalent as we are here.

I find it laughable they have a launch for a "modified" iPhone 4 just because it works on CDMA, because the mobile phone companies could not a agree on a standard or set of standards governing mobile phone networks. Look at Australia, no CDMA, no special "modified" handsets to work on a phone network, as all handsets work fine on our "standards". Pity the US couldn't think this far ahead.

You never trust a bunch of private telecommunications companies to come up with an agreement on matters like this - as they will all choose their own version. As for LTE its in the works at the moment with Telstra and other companies. As for EVDO / Edge these are ONLY used as fallback networks when 3G is not attainable - they are not used for the majority of the time.
 
Yes UMTS is an upgraded version of CDMA (Wideband variant) and based on similar technology, but the speed and clarity it provides is currently the best available. UMTS 3G is actually 3G 3.5, and LTE will be coming to Australia soon as tests are already underway. All the mobile network towers here are basically futureproofed for upgrading - as we thought ahead.

No, HSDPA is 3.5G.
 
I have to chuckle when people say it's ridiculous for Apple to make a CDMA iPhone for a single carrier. People forget that Verizon has more subscribers than either the UK, Germany, Italy or France has people, coupled with the fact that a wireless subscriber's likelihood to buy a phone is a lot higher than that of a general population. Finally, you have to take into account that America is one of the iPhone's best market share locations.

It made sense to tap that market, so they did. CDMA is still a viable standard with some advantages over GSM with more improvements being integrated into the standard still.
 
<snip>
My point is that IF the U.S. had mandated a standard mobile technology (like other countries) then the market in the U.S. would be a lot further along than it is now.

Decisions made 10, 20 years ago have had a very negative impact on the mobile landscape in the U.S.

I disagree. The fact that Verizon chose CDMA and the migration path to 3G was so smooth, it forced other carriers and the GSMA to more rapidly adopt a 3G solution (WCDMA). Competition is always good.

I worry that LTE will languish without a worthy competitor.
 
Australia 2 people per square kilometer. But more than 60% (13 million people) live in big cities.

USA: 33 people per square kilometer. But only 6% (20 million people) live in big cities.

You get the idea?
 
I disagree. The fact that Verizon chose CDMA and the migration path to 3G was so smooth, it forced other carriers and the GSMA to more rapidly adopt a 3G solution (WCDMA). Competition is always good.

...and as the article that I linked to earlier I think successfully makes the case for, WCDMA, which is what UMTS (3G GSM) is (and which is entirely based on the research that Qualcomm did!), would not exist today if there had not been an opportunity for Qualcomm's CDMA tech to be put to the test in a free market and prove itself as a technology. The GSM cartel in Europe wasn't about to adopt it until it started making inroads and demonstrated its superiority over TDMA, and then they found that they had no choice but to adopt it (in modified form, of course).

-- Nathan
 
...and as the article that I linked to earlier I think successfully makes the case for, WCDMA, which is what UMTS (3G GSM) is (and which is entirely based on the research that Qualcomm did!), would not exist today if there had not been an opportunity for Qualcomm's CDMA tech to be put to the test in a free market and prove itself as a technology. The GSM cartel in Europe wasn't about to adopt it until it started making inroads and demonstrated its superiority over TDMA, and then they found that they had no choice but to adopt it (in modified form, of course).

-- Nathan

Yeah! And I didn't even read it! :D

Edit: Hahahaha...I've read this guy's stuff before.
 
The best thing about owning and operating a cell phone in Australia VS the US, and this IS true, is that we don't pay for incoming calls and messages.

That seems absolutely crazy to me. If carriers tried to implement that here they would lose all their customers overnight... why is it that customers in the US have to pay for incoming calls and messages as well as outgoing ones? Its double dipping!! And why are you guys (US cell phone customers) putting up with it? A genuine question.
 
It was the cheapest to upgrade to "3G" status, even though it doesn't even scratch that.

If your not in perfect cellular conditions its like EDGE....I wish verizon did what Bell in canada did...quickly switch to HSPA under the covers while no one was looking and then not worry about having a massive network that will be obsolete in no time. Verizon can brag on about there network but its just them being insecure....just wait. There LTE coverage is pathetic BTW, they claimed "aggressive" expansion and its not even close. I remember EVDO was like a finger snap probably because it was a software update but still don't claim to not tease us with coverage like AT&T did with 3G then do exactly that with 4G. At this point though to be honest I just want a data network that works, but I'm always going to be critical of verizon.
 
Australia only has 24 million people and yet we upgraded our mobile phone network completely, and if its to do with the cost of upgrading, the US would get a return on investment a lot quicker due to their population. We in Australia have more mobile phones than the population of the country.

Yet you have not created your own iPhone, you buy an American invented product. You should be thankful Apple sells to Australia. The state of California has more people than your entire country. See the scope of what needs to be done? Your population is minuscule and to upgrade to GSM would probably take a bunch of high school kids a weekend to complete.
 
Yet you have not created your own iPhone, you buy an American invented product. You should be thankful Apple sells to Australia. The state of California has more people than your entire country. See the scope of what needs to be done? Your population is minuscule and to upgrade to GSM would probably take a bunch of high school kids a weekend to complete.

I hate to say this but...you owned that post. Its true, pay like 200 highschool computer nerds and your set, hell 90% would do it for free...I would! :apple::cool:
 
The best thing about owning and operating a cell phone in Australia VS the US, and this IS true, is that we don't pay for incoming calls and messages.

That seems absolutely crazy to me. If carriers tried to implement that here they would lose all their customers overnight... why is it that customers in the US have to pay for incoming calls and messages as well as outgoing ones? Its double dipping!! And why are you guys (US cell phone customers) putting up with it? A genuine question.

Well what other option do I have? Do I just boycott every carrier in the US and stop using a cell phone alltogether?

Personally, I have to put up with the "double dipping" because I have no other option!
 
<snip> why is it that customers in the US have to pay for incoming calls and messages as well as outgoing ones? Its double dipping!! And why are you guys (US cell phone customers) putting up with it? A genuine question.

Because the officials we elected to protect our best interests would rather line their "election coffers" with money from special interest groups...such as the wireless carriers lobbyists.

And competition isn't enough to get any of the carriers to stop charging in that manner.

But I'm not bitter about it or anything.
 
The best thing about owning and operating a cell phone in Australia VS the US, and this IS true, is that we don't pay for incoming calls and messages.

That seems absolutely crazy to me. If carriers tried to implement that here they would lose all their customers overnight... why is it that customers in the US have to pay for incoming calls and messages as well as outgoing ones? Its double dipping!! And why are you guys (US cell phone customers) putting up with it? A genuine question.

In the USA, the originator's costs end as soon as the call exits the originator's phone network and enters the recipient's local phone exchange. Any costs that are incurred bringing the call from the recipient's local phone exchange into the recipient's handset, is the responsibility of the recipient.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Australia, I believe the originating caller's phone company sets aside a portion of the money it charges the originating caller, and forwards it to the receiving phone company to cover the receiving company's costs associated with completing the call.

If you use a USA landline phone to call a cell phone registered in the same local calling area (as defined by the originating phone's service provider -- it may be the size of the city, or it may be the size of the state, or it may be nationwide), your call can go on literally forever without incurring any charges whatsoever on your landline phone account.

However, the cell company still wants to recover its airtime costs for maintaining the wireless end of the connection, but they will not be receiving any per-minute subsidy from the originating landline carrier to do so. So they charge the receiver instead.

By extension, then, they treat all incoming calls in the same way. The recipient is responsible for the full cost of maintaining the wireless connection on their end of the call, without requiring the sender to subsidize the recipient's end of the line. On the other hand, the sender is responsible for only the costs associated with the maintaining the originating side of the call. In theory, it ought to result in the originator paying approximately half as much per minute, as (s)he would if (s)he was responsible for paying the full cost. The recipient would be required to pick up the remaining half of the cost.

Overall, the sum total fees collected would theoretically work out to be equal - the only difference is the proportion of the fees that are covered by each participant: either 100% originator/0% recipient, or 50% originator/50% recipient.

In practice, the theory appears to be true:

With a typical Telstra iPhone plan, you appear to be paying between AU$0.35 to $0.40 per 30 seconds of airtime - $0.70 to $0.80 per minute - plus a AU$0.37 set-up fee for every call. Australian dollars are approximately on par with US dollars at the moment.

With a typical AT&T iPhone plan, you'll pay between $0.40 and $0.45 per minute, without any set-up fee per call.

In accordance with theory, the US airtime rate is approximately half that of the Australian airtime rate on a per-minute basis. Taking into account the Australian per-call connection fee, it's somewhat better than half the Australian rate for shorter calls. The balance shifts slightly worse for USA customers -- but depending on the plan, possibly still better than in Australia -- as the call gets longer.

If, on average, you spend about half your airtime originating calls, and you spend about half your airtime receiving calls, then overall you'll spend just about the same amount under the Australian system as you would under the USA system. On the other hand, if you spend most of your time originating calls, you're better off under the American system. If you spend most of your time receiving calls, you're better off under the Australian system.

As for text messages, it does seem weird to me. The per-message rate is about the same in the USA as it is in Australia, and yet it's charged double in the USA.
 
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