Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

iPhone 4 video showing NO SIGNAL LOSS when held "incorrectly"

Swampthing

Swampthing

Suspended
Original poster
Mar 5, 2004
651
575
I've seen a number of reports where people state the iPhone signal loss is a design flaw which makes the product unusuable. Some folks have gone on to say that the problem affects ALL iPhone 4 users. I just made a short video to demonstrate that is NOT the case. In the video, I hold the iPhone normal and then hold it "incorrectly" to demonstrate there is no signal degradation on my iPhone. It's interesting to note that I lose one bar on the second try but while maintaining the "death grip" that bar returns. I attribute that to normal variations of signal strength, not a product design issue.

Anyway, here's the video for your enjoyment and to use as evidence to those who claim the so-called problem affects ALL users. Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7sKyemdp4E
 
I can't watch your video at work, but if you have 5 bars, plenty of people have videos of this. You need a video with 1-2 bars. There are also those who want to see another phone not working in the same locations, which makes it even harder to prove to them (since you have to find someone with a faulty phone).
 
This has been fully explained a thousand times before, and I'm sure someone will explain it again in this thread. It's too early in the morning.
 
-aggie- said:
I can't watch your video at work, but if you have 5 bars, plenty of people have videos of this. You need a video with 1-2 bars. There are also those who want to see another phone not working in the same locations, which makes it even harder to prove to them (since you have to find someone with a faulty phone).
Click to expand...

Even 4 bars would work. Having 5 bars, covering the antenna, and still having 5 bars tells you absolutely nothing. If your signal is great, you can drop a HUGE amount of signal and still have 5 bars the way they're calculated.
 
You live in an area that has excellent cell coverage. People with the problem live in areas where coverage isn't perfect. That's the difference.

However, dropping a few bars does not impede people from placing calls. So I still think this issue is a bit blown out of proportion but now Apple has a serious PR issue.
 
hypoh said:
This has been fully explained a thousand times before, and I'm sure someone will explain it again in this thread. It's too early in the morning.
Click to expand...

Funny I don't recall seeing an explanation in the Consumer Reports article or any public websites. The problem here is that all the news sources are citing it as a problem in 100% of iPhones, which my video, and several others on YouTube clearly demonstrate, it is not.

BTW, there ARE a number of videos on YouTube showing degradation of FIVE bars to ZERO. So apparently it has nothing to do with signal strength.
 
My iPhone 4 just arrived today, so I cut my t-mobile SIM and decided to do some testing.

I downloaded the speed test app and without holding the phone by the steel band, started the test. I got an average of 356 kbps down, and 41kbps up without holding it, on 3G, from my house (which is in a rural area).

I then try the deathgrip, sure enough the signal falls, but after doing multiple speed tests with the deathgrip, my worst speeds were 332kbps down and 32 kbps up, barley any difference!

Anyone else the same, little or no signal loss? I have managed to get "Searching" once, and a couple times I managed to loose 3G but keep good signal, but apart from that it's been fine!

Model number is MC605B, first 4 of Serial are 8802.
 
Hold it for about 2 mins and see if you have any signal loss. Mine takes about that long. Its all about location... location.... location...
 
Swampthing said:
But the problem is that they state that holding the signal very tightly resulted in a 24db loss which you think should be visible.
Click to expand...

Did you read the whole article?

It's NOT visible. "5 bars" covers about 90% of the iPhone's signal range. You can go from 100% coverage to 30% coverage and keep 5 bars the entire time. The only way to really test it is to hack the phone so you see the actual db. Going by the bars really tells you nothing useful.
 
Small White Car said:
Did you read the whole article?

It's NOT visible. "5 bars" covers about 90% of the iPhone's signal range. You can go from 100% coverage to 30% coverage and keep 5 bars the entire time. The only way to really test it is to hack the phone so you see the actual db. Going by the bars really tells you nothing useful.
Click to expand...

Are you reading the news reports and watching their videos carefully? They claim the reported signal loss IS visible regardless of what Anandtech is telling you.

I'm not saying their reports are accurate, but it IS what they show.
 
Swampthing said:
Are you reading the news reports and watching their videos carefully? They claim the reported signal loss IS visible regardless of what Anandtech is telling you.

I'm not saying their reports are accurate, but it IS what they show.
Click to expand...

Sensationalism = The News
 
Swampthing said:
Are you reading the news reports and watching their videos carefully? They claim the reported signal loss IS visible regardless of what Anandtech is telling you.

I'm not saying their reports are accurate, but it IS what they show.
Click to expand...

It's visiable in areas where signal is already low. It's not visible where signal is already high.

This is why your video is useless. How do we know what the signal is like where you shot it? We don't know. I've tested my phone in dozens of places. It shows the flaw in about 1/3 of them and it doesn't show it in 2/3 of them.

Do you want me to post videos of it both "working" and "not working?" I can do that, but it dosn't mean anything, really.
 
Small White Car said:
It's visiable in areas where signal is already low. It's not visible where signal is already high.

This is why your video is useless. How do we know what the signal is like where you shot it? We don't know. I've tested my phone in dozens of places. It shows the flaw in about 1/3 of them and it doesn't show it in 2/3 of them.

Do you want me to post videos of it both "working" and "not working?" I can do that, but it dosn't mean anything, really.
Click to expand...

Um.. you mean so it acts just like any other cellphone then? They all work great in some areas and not others. What does that have to do with this discussion?

What I'd love to see from you are videos showing exactly what I did in all those areas... with and without the "death grip." Otherwise it sounds like you are just blowing smoke in the direction you see fit for the day...
 
Swampthing said:
Funny I don't recall seeing an explanation in the Consumer Reports article or any public websites. The problem here is that all the news sources are citing it as a problem in 100% of iPhones, which my video, and several others on YouTube clearly demonstrate, it is not.

BTW, there ARE a number of videos on YouTube showing degradation of FIVE bars to ZERO. So apparently it has nothing to do with signal strength.
Click to expand...

This is a perfect fanboy thread and brought many LOLZ... Thank you for that

However, you are COMPLETELY wrong. This problem does affect 100% of iPhone 4s, an i have yet to see ANY evidence to prove otherwise (including this video)

Since you seem to be struggling with the concept, let me run through it with you. The iPhone 4 will typically operate within a signal range between -51 (strongest) and -113 dBs (weakest). The 5th bar accounts for a disporportant segment of that range as it goes from -51 to -91 dBs, while the other four bars represent a range of 10 dB or less (each).

The iPhone 4 is said to loose between 20 and 25 dB because of it's design flaw. That means that if you were in a strong signal area (-51 to -66 dB), the "death grip" would NOT show a drop in bars (and if it did it might be momentary, as it was in your video).

So, your video proves absolutely NOTHING, outside of the fact that you live in a strong signal area.

The ONLY way someone could prove that this issue does not affect all iPhone 4s would be to show two iPhone 4's in the same location, at the same time, held the same way, with one phone dropping bars while the other does not. Also, if someone were able to write a program that displays actual signal strength, and they showed only minimal attenuation, that would also be "proof". Your video is fanboyism, and proves nothing.
 
Swampthing said:
Are you reading the news reports and watching their videos carefully? They claim the reported signal loss IS visible regardless of what Anandtech is telling you.

I'm not saying their reports are accurate, but it IS what they show.
Click to expand...

Yes and there are plenty of other videos on youtube showing exactly what you are showing. Regardless of whether people are claiming that signal loss is in bars only, attenuation of your signal is not necessarily reflected in the number of bars. There's no reason to continue this thread, you're not convincing anyone.
 
Swampthing said:
Um.. you mean so it acts just like any other cellphone then? They all work great in some areas and not others. What does that have to do with this discussion?
Click to expand...

If you don't want to spend the time to really read the articles I post, that's fine. But I'm not gonna post videos to prove things to you when it's clear you're not even understanding the links I've already posted. That would just be a waste of my time.

I think that if you actually understand what Anandtech is saying, you'd be very clear on this and wouldn't need to see any more videos. Go back and read it again and then you should understand why ANY youtube videos of a single phone (yours or mine) don't mean a thing.

iPhoneHome said:
So...Apple is being blamed for a design flaw when it only occurs in Low Signal areas??? I just don't get it.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much Apple's argument. (It's not a terrible point, honestly.)

But people who own the phone argue that it should perform as well in low-signal areas as the last iPhone, the 3GS. That's also a fair point.
 
UCF-ENG said:
This is a perfect fanboy thread and brought many LOLZ... Thank you for that

However, you are COMPLETELY wrong. This problem does affect 100% of iPhone 4s, an i have yet to see ANY evidence to prove otherwise (including this video)

Since you seem to be struggling with the concept, let me run through it with you. The iPhone 4 will typically operate within a signal range between -51 (strongest) and -113 dbms (weakest). The 5th bar accounts for a disporportant segment of that range as it goes from -51 to -91 dbms, while the other four bars represent a range of 10 dbm or less.

The iPhone 4 is said to loose between 20 and 25 dbm because of it's design flaw. That means that if you were in a strong signal area (-51 to -66 dbm), the "deathgrip" would NOT show a drop in bars (and if it did it might be momentary, as it was in your video).

So, your video proves absolutely NOTHING, outside of the fact that you live in a strong signal area.

The ONLY way someone could prove that this issue does not affect all iPhone 4s would be to show two iPhone 4's in the same location, at the same time, held the same way, with one phone dropping bars while the other does not. Also, if someone were able to write a program that displays actual signal strength, and they showed only minimal attenuation, that would also be "proof". Your video is fanboyism, and proves nothing.
Click to expand...

Let me make this simple for you.

Videos are being shown on the news that state the signal bars go from 5 bars to zero simply by holding it wrong. They weren't out there measuring signal strength with fancy electronic measuring devices like you suggest need to be used. They were using good ol' fashioned eyeballs and saw something.

But just like you, they run screaming to the hills assuming it affects everyone. And just like you, they have ZERO evidence to back that up. You have ZERO evidence it affects all iPhones. That's just pure speculation.
 
Swampthing said:
Funny I don't recall seeing an explanation in the Consumer Reports article or any public websites. The problem here is that all the news sources are citing it as a problem in 100% of iPhones, which my video, and several others on YouTube clearly demonstrate, it is not.

BTW, there ARE a number of videos on YouTube showing degradation of FIVE bars to ZERO. So apparently it has nothing to do with signal strength.
Click to expand...

You obviously have not followed this issue very well. It's been as close to proven as anyone can get that this does affect all phones, but that data/voice disrupting attenuation is dependent on the signal strength. Additionally, the 5-bar-method of reporting signal strength and quality fails to give an accurate indication of what is happening with the signal between the phone and surrounding cell towers. Seriously, it's as if you woke up today from a year long coma, just learned about this issue, and then decided to post about it.
 
Ok, imagine this scale being from the lowest possible signal to the highest possible signal and the marker in the scale is the point at which the phone will drop from 5 bars to 4.

L [---|------] H

Imagine you lose 30% of your signal when using the "death grip". The S in the next graph will indicate the signal levels.

This indicates 100% signal pre-grip:
L [---|-----S] H

Post-grip you lose 30%:
L [---|--S---] H

Notice, you are still above the cutoff that would visually show a drop of 5 to 4 bars on the screen even though you have lost significant signal strength.

Now, imagine your starting signal is at 50% pre-grip:
L [---|S-----] H

Post-grip you lose 30%:
L [-S-|------] H

Now you have created a visual change in the "bars" on the screen...but you lost the same amount of signal strength as the first test.

What I mean to demonstrate here is that even if all iPhone 4's have the same exact problem and lose the same exact amount of signal strength when gripped, showing a test attempting to show proof of not losing significant signal is invalid if you have 5 bars.

With 5 bars starting, the entire scope of the signal loss can be experienced without any visual change in the bars.

I hope this served to clarify rather then confuse. Only replies after this will tell. lol At least I tried.
 
Small White Car said:
If you don't want to spend the time to really read the articles I post, that's fine. But I'm not gonna post videos to prove things to you when it's clear you're not even understanding the links I've already posted. That would just be a waste of my time.
Click to expand...

I'd prefer to see your video evidence instead, which you're now ducking and running from doing. Your continued argument that the problem exists for everyone it absolutely baseless. Sorry but sometimes you just can't believe everything you read... I need visual proof. And it clearly seems you have no interest in supporting that effort to prove your case.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back