iPhone 4 video showing NO SIGNAL LOSS when held "incorrectly"

[UCF-ENG]

So...Apple is being blamed for a design flaw when it only occurs in Low Signal areas??? I just don't get it.

My phone doing a kickass job while being groped: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US0bd6ZNUP0

No, Apple is being blamed for a design flaw when their phone drops 20-25 dBs when held, from what I have read, normal attenuation is typically <10 dBs...

You guys must own a lot of Apple stock or something... I can't think of any other reason you would be so vigilantly defending a flawed product.

The bottom line it this, if the phone needs a bumper to operate within normal tolerances, then it should be included in the box.

 

[Small White Car]

But just like you, they run screaming to the hills assuming it affects everyone. And just like you, they have ZERO evidence to back that up. You have ZERO evidence it affects all iPhones. That's just pure speculation.

The evidence is that no one has yet found a phone that's unafected.

Find one and you'll be very, very popular on the internet. To prove it you'll need a youtube video of 2 iPhone 4s, side by side with one showing the flaw and one not. Being able to show the same thing in multiple locations will also be important.

 

[kenypowa]

You obviously have not followed this issue very well. It's been as close to proven as anyone can get that this does affect all phones, but that data/voice disrupting attenuation is dependent on the signal strength. Additionally, the 5-bar-method of reporting signal strength and quality fails to give an accurate indication of what is happening with the signal between the phone and surrounding cell towers. Seriously, it's as if you woke up today from a year long coma, just learned about this issue, and then decided to post about it.

I feel bad for OP, he doesn't know what he is talking about.

Why don't you make the same video when there is 2 or 3 bars on the iPhone? If it doesn't drop then that'd be news. Until then, please read others' replies carefully.

 

[-aggie-]

You obviously have not followed this issue very well. It's been as close to proven as anyone can get that this does affect all phones, but that data/voice disrupting attenuation is dependent on the signal strength. Additionally, the 5-bar-method of reporting signal strength and quality fails to give an accurate indication of what is happening with the signal between the phone and surrounding cell towers. Seriously, it's as if you woke up today from a year long coma, just learned about this issue, and then decided to post about it.

It's not been proven to affect all phones. My phone doesn't do it, no matter what strength I start out. Others have the same findings. If someone doesn't finally post a video of this, I'm going to have to. The problem is finding another phone that has the problem.

The evidence is that no one has yet found a phone that's unafected.

Find one and you'll be very, very popular on the internet. To prove it you'll need a youtube video of 2 iPhone 4s, side by side with one showing the flaw and one not. Being able to show the same thing in multiple locations will also be important.

 

[mcdj]

I really wish these brain donors would stop posting these stupid head-in-the-sand videos. All they serve to do is make the already gullible think the problem is isolated, and this just enables Apple to keep kicking the issue down the field.

Do us all a favor...if you haven't read a single article about the antenna problem, don't post videos claiming there is no problem.

 

[futbalguy]

OP, you are so late to this issue. Its been hashed out in thousands of posts since the phone came out. Do not get an attitude with posters that say you are wrong because frankly you really are. Anandtech has produced the most conclusive and trustworthy testing. It also makes complete sense. Spend a few days with your phone in different locations and you will see it. Btw, consumer reports is not specific with what the issue really is and they do make it seem like more of a problem than it is.

 

[iammike1]

So...Apple is being blamed for a design flaw when it only occurs in Low Signal areas??? I just don't get it.

My phone doing a kickass job while being groped: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US0bd6ZNUP0

Although your video only goes to prove you have a very solid signal at your location, I'm completely jealous of your throughput in that speed test. lol

Here in Tokyo, I would consider myself lucky to ever hit 1.5 down and even worse, my typical up is about .2.

I blame the extremely high population density here.

 

[Small White Car]

I'd prefer to see your video evidence instead, which you're now ducking and running from doing. Your continued argument that the problem exists for everyone it absolutely baseless. Sorry but sometimes you just can't believe everything you read... I need visual proof. And it clearly seems you have no interest in supporting that effort to prove your case.

I can not prove a negative. I'm sorry, it's scientifically impossible.

You're asking for something that doesn't exist. If you ACTUALLY understood the issue, you'd understand that. The fact that you keep asking me for these videos shows you don't get it.

You want me to post a video of EVERY iPHONE 4 IN THE WORLD. That is literally what you're asking me for.

I'm not gonna do it.

 

[Swampthing]

Ok, imagine this scale being from the lowest possible signal to the highest possible signal and the marker in the scale is the point at which the phone will drop from 5 bars to 4.

I hope this served to clarify rather then confuse. Only replies after this will tell. lol At least I tried.

The problem with all of this "evidence" is that it fails to take into account all the numerous videos out there on YouTube that show signal strength dropping from FIVE bars to zero. They were clearly in a strong signal area to begin with, yet went completely down to zero. Then when the hand is removed, go right back up to FIVE bars.

I understand completely what everyone is stating; if you are in an area which has a lesser signal, this is more likely to happen. But that doesn't account for all the 5 --> 0 signal drops.

 

[iammike1]

No, Apple is being blamed for a design flaw when their phone drops 20-25 dBs when held, from what I have read, normal attenuation is typically <10 dBs...

You guys must own a lot of Apple stock or something... I can't think of any other reason you would be so vigilantly defending a flawed product.

The bottom line it this, if the phone needs a bumper to operate within normal tolerances, then it should be included in the box.

I do agree with your viewpoint on the signal issue and the issuance of a bumper for free...but I did happily pay $30 for my bumper because, quite honestly, with the bumper it's the best phone on the market and it utilizes my 3 years of investment into purchasing Apple iOS applications and accessories.

That's what kept me on board. I did seriously look at the HTC Desire here in Japan though. Android just isn't good enough yet for me to, basically, throw away 3 years of money spent.

 

[UCF-ENG]

Let me make this simple for you.

Videos are being shown on the news that state the signal bars go from 5 bars to zero simply by holding it wrong. They weren't out there measuring signal strength with fancy electronic measuring devices like you suggest need to be used. They were using good ol' fashioned eyeballs and saw something.

But just like you, they run screaming to the hills assuming it affects everyone. And just like you, they have ZERO evidence to back that up. You have ZERO evidence it affects all iPhones. That's just pure speculation.

Your not very good at math are you?

Look at that graph, -90 dB is 5 bars, -114 is zero. That is a difference of 24 dB, which is within the reported range of signal lost reported from holding the phone. I know this is very difficult for some, but in this very thread, I have shown mathematically how it is possible for the same phone with the same design defect to be held in one location with 5 bars, and lose absolutely NO bars and held in another location with 5 bars and lose signal COMPLETELY.

 

[Small White Car]

The problem with all of this "evidence" is that it fails to take into account all the numerous videos out there on YouTube that show signal strength dropping from FIVE bars to zero. They were clearly in a strong signal area to begin with

Wrong. PLEASE re-read the article. 5 bars does NOT = strong signal

 

[futbalguy]

The problem with all of this "evidence" is that it fails to take into account all the numerous videos out there on YouTube that show signal strength dropping from FIVE bars to zero. They were clearly in a strong signal area to begin with, yet went completely down to zero. Then when the hand is removed, go right back up to FIVE bars.

I understand completely what everyone is stating; if you are in an area which has a lesser signal, this is more likely to happen. But that doesn't account for all the 5 --> 0 signal drops.

You are wrong. 5 bars does not equate to high signal. The bars represent whatever signal strength apple wants it to represent. The fix Apple is proposing will show you fewer bars than it used to. So death grip should no longer show 5 to zero but it may show 3 to zero. Just depends on how they calibrate the new signal bars.

 

[iammike1]

The problem with all of this "evidence" is that it fails to take into account all the numerous videos out there on YouTube that show signal strength dropping from FIVE bars to zero. They were clearly in a strong signal area to begin with, yet went completely down to zero. Then when the hand is removed, go right back up to FIVE bars.

I understand completely what everyone is stating; if you are in an area which has a lesser signal, this is more likely to happen. But that doesn't account for all the 5 --> 0 signal drops.

Actually, when you look at the Anandtech article, you will see that the ~25dB loss of signal when gripped bare IS enough to take it from 5 to 0 if you are already at the low end of what the phone considers 5 bars.

My illustrations were not to scale, they were simply to illustrate the principle.

 

[Swampthing]

I can not prove a negative. I'm sorry, it's scientifically impossible.

You're asking for something that doesn't exist.

So it is impossible for you to film videos showing how your iPhone 4 signal strength degrades in a particular area when held "incorrectly" and goes back up when held "correctly?" Then repeat that experiment in other areas where you claim it does the opposite?

Why is that so impossible for you to do to prove your case? You said you experienced it. Are you stating you didn't see anything visible, and if that is the case, then I have to question whether you are imagining the whole signal loss.

 

[dark5]

Can we please let this useless and misinforming thread die? Thank you.

 

[-aggie-]

The problem with all of this "evidence" is that it fails to take into account all the numerous videos out there on YouTube that show signal strength dropping from FIVE bars to zero. They were clearly in a strong signal area to begin with, yet went completely down to zero. Then when the hand is removed, go right back up to FIVE bars.

I understand completely what everyone is stating; if you are in an area which has a lesser signal, this is more likely to happen. But that doesn't account for all the 5 --> 0 signal drops.

You're making yourself look silly.



24 dB decrease from -91 gives you -115 (ZERO bars).

 

[futbalguy]

Can we please let this useless and misinforming thread die? Thank you.

agreed, im out. OP read through all the other threads. its not that complicated.

 

[Small White Car]

Why is that so impossible for you to do to prove your case?

Because I would have to shoot a video of EVERY iPhone 4 that Apple has sold.

You're seriously still asking me for that? Do you know how long that would take?

 

[iammike1]

So it is impossible for you to film videos showing how your iPhone 4 signal strength degrades in a particular area when held "incorrectly" and goes back up when held "correctly?" Then repeat that experiment in other areas where you claim it does the opposite?

I could do it but it depends if I feel like jacking with it. Certainly not gonna go out of my way.

Here at home I have very strong signal and can not get my phone to drop down from 5 bars most of the time.

If I go to work I generally have around 3 bars and just placing the end of my index finger on the gap will drop me to no signal. No "death grip" required. Phone laying on desk I simply put one finger on the screen to keep the phone from sliding and place my other fingertip on the gap. No Signal

At home you wouldn't think their was a problem at all.

 

[iammike1]

Because I would have to shoot a video of EVERY iPhone 4 that Apple has sold.

You're seriously still asking me for that? Do you know how long that would take?

As much as I love to point out the fact that you can not prove a negative (being Atheist and all), proving your claim that signal loss may not be shown in bars when in one area while in another the loss is obvious is not proving a negative. That is a positive claim you have made.

Of course, in the chaos of this thread, if I have misunderstood what you are being asked to show, I apologize and retract my statement.

 

[Small White Car]

Of course, in the chaos of this thread, if I have misunderstood what you are being asked to show, I apologize and retract my statement.

I wouldn't apologize. I'm not sure the thread makes sense to anyone anymore. It's important to note that I wasn't really referring to ultimate proof, but rather "video proof" which is what's being asked for. So my comments were focused on that.

I probably went too far in saying it's "impossible" to prove with video evidence. It is "darned near impossible." That's probably more accurate.

 

[Swampthing]

Alot of people here COMPLETELY missing the point. Let me overly simplify it.

A. News reports show signal loss from 5 to 0 bars when held "incorrectly." Numerous consumers who see these reports and are on the fence about buying an iPhone hear that it affects ALL iPhones and in some extreme cases people are claiming the iPhone 4 doesn't even work as an iPhone.

B. I hold the phone the same way and get zero signal loss. No I didn't get out an electronic meter to measure it, because neither did the news reporters.

C. All the Anandtech article proves is that the iPhone 4 behaves like any other cellphone. It is strong in some areas, weak in others. Covering up an antenna affects signal reception. OMG... stunning news. I guess those folks never owned a transistor radio back in the day and noticed how the signal changed based upon whether you are physically touching the antenna.

D. There is no proof whatsoever that the problem affects ALL iPhone users.

E. End of story.

 

[Small White Car]

D. There is no proof whatsoever that the problem affects ALL iPhone users.

E. End of story.

iPhones.

It affects 100% of iPHONES.

No one is talking about users. If that's what you're going on about, ok. You're right. It doesn't affect all users. But no one really cares. People are searching for an unaffected iPHONE, not an unaffected iPHONE USER.

Is that all you're trying to prove? We know that already.

 

[iammike1]

E. End of story.

No, not the "End of Story" because you're missing some very key points in understanding this situation.

It is "End of Story" for me bothering to try to help show you anymore. It's simply beyond hope and I'm no teacher by trade.