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iPhone 5 crashed, Apple says it's out of warranty
- Thread starter alphathesis
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Because members is been burned before? U spend a lot of time helping the guy and it turned out it's all a waste-my-time game.
Gain? maybe *someone* by chance will have an hack to cheat the system?
Your participation is your "eBay credential." U just signed up to post a weird problem, not the same as someone who's been contributing regularly.
Really? Show me on a government site where it states this. All companies void warranties if their products are tampered with. And, being a non-Apple certified tech it is tampering if I decided to open up my iPhone and screw around with it. If I were selling a product I would have the exact same policy. I'm not going to pay out because you decided to open up a product you had no clue how to repair. In most cases you screwed it up even more.
Just another example of how some people seem to think they are "entitled". Try working hard and taking responsibility.
Although I dont agree with it, I havent been a member of the forums long enough to have been burned over and over, so Ill defer to the collective suspicion.
I dont much like throwing out accusations at the start, but I guess I can understand it.
Load of tosh, I'm sorry. The fact that there was a screw missing from the phone is proof enough. And they will have, if requested, given him a written work authorisation saying such (hint: whenever they deny services - it's logged so that if you go to another store it flags up as soon as you put the serial in
). So they will already have this "law breaking" logged.I guess you'll probably quote the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act at some point, so I'll get in first. Tampering and/or misuse is a perfectly valid reason to void a warranty under that act.
I do. I even inspect it for dents, loose home button, screen issues, etc. Perhaps you are one of those that need to do it just in case.
Screws are not that small where you cannot see them.Attachments
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Wow ... Great minds think alike lol. All these things were going through my head the when time I was reading this .
I'm guessing you never read this article. I've since talked to numerous friends who work or have worked for Apple and these things do happen.
http://gizmodo.com/5936324/exclusive-confessions-from-the-most-corrupt-apple-store-in-america
Just go back another day and you shouldnt have a problem. What do you mean by crashed though haha
I think it's funny how some people think Apple store employees are the cream of the crop in the general human population.
They're people. Some of them suck.
I do. I even inspect it for dents, loose home button, screen issues, etc. Perhaps you are one of those that need to do it just in case.
There are screws on the inside of the phone you know. Lol.
I absolutely believe you. Same sort of thing happened to me yesterday. I dropped my phone, when I picked it up the right side had lines running down it and it wasn't working properly (pushing it's own buttons, opening apps. ect...., and I couldn't push buttons on the right side)
I took it in to the apple store, fully willing and expecting to pay and have it repaired or replaced, since I was the one who broke it. The tech. took in the back to look at, came back about ten minutes later, and told me that he couldn't work on it because it had been opened before - the seal had been broken, two internal screws (in the top right) were missing, and a wire in the same area had been tampered with. He told me that voided the warranty and he wasn't even allowed to work on it.
Needless to say, I was shocked. I too, have only had this phone since December. I have never opened it! I went through the same conversation as you, I think. They tried to tell me maybe someone else opened it when it was out of my possession, etc....
I, however, insisted on speaking with the manager. She tried to give me the same line as the tech at first. Even told me that all the phones are weighed when they leave the factory in China, so there is no way an error like this could have slipped by (not true, I have since read multiple stories of new phones with missing screws in various places).... I asked her if she was calling me a liar (because why would I lie when I was totally willing to pay to have it fixed!) She said she was just going off the facts as she could see them. I told her that with that logic, it was just as likely that they sold me a returned/refurbished phone as a new one or that her tech removed the screws because the facts as I saw them were that he was the only person to ever open the phone. (I honestly don't think he did it - he was very nice and tried to be helpful, I'm sure it was like this when I first got it, especially because I have always had the occasional problem unlocking it - it would get stuck and not always work when the slide reached the right side - up until yesterday, I just always assumed it was because my hands were cold or something.... ) Anyway, I was just trying to emphasis the point that she couldn't just speculate and make up stories when she didn't actually know what happened.
In the end we were able to resolve the problem and they replaced the phone. So don't give up, your not the only one this has ever happened to, and don't let these guys tell you your lying or crazy.
And YES, I too, am i first time poster (gasp!). I came across this thread while doing a google search to see if anyone else has had a similar problem as me because I was so surprised/shocked/mad about the whole situation.
I took it in to the apple store, fully willing and expecting to pay and have it repaired or replaced, since I was the one who broke it. The tech. took in the back to look at, came back about ten minutes later, and told me that he couldn't work on it because it had been opened before - the seal had been broken, two internal screws (in the top right) were missing, and a wire in the same area had been tampered with. He told me that voided the warranty and he wasn't even allowed to work on it.
Needless to say, I was shocked. I too, have only had this phone since December. I have never opened it! I went through the same conversation as you, I think. They tried to tell me maybe someone else opened it when it was out of my possession, etc....
I, however, insisted on speaking with the manager. She tried to give me the same line as the tech at first. Even told me that all the phones are weighed when they leave the factory in China, so there is no way an error like this could have slipped by (not true, I have since read multiple stories of new phones with missing screws in various places).... I asked her if she was calling me a liar (because why would I lie when I was totally willing to pay to have it fixed!) She said she was just going off the facts as she could see them. I told her that with that logic, it was just as likely that they sold me a returned/refurbished phone as a new one or that her tech removed the screws because the facts as I saw them were that he was the only person to ever open the phone. (I honestly don't think he did it - he was very nice and tried to be helpful, I'm sure it was like this when I first got it, especially because I have always had the occasional problem unlocking it - it would get stuck and not always work when the slide reached the right side - up until yesterday, I just always assumed it was because my hands were cold or something.... ) Anyway, I was just trying to emphasis the point that she couldn't just speculate and make up stories when she didn't actually know what happened.
In the end we were able to resolve the problem and they replaced the phone. So don't give up, your not the only one this has ever happened to, and don't let these guys tell you your lying or crazy.
And YES, I too, am i first time poster (gasp!). I came across this thread while doing a google search to see if anyone else has had a similar problem as me because I was so surprised/shocked/mad about the whole situation.
:d +1
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^ Hmm, some what suspicious that the OP hasn't replied past the 4th or 5th comment and you also come along joining on the same day to post on the same thread??
*strokes chin*
:d +1
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^ Hmm, some what suspicious that the OP hasn't replied past the 4th or 5th comment and you also come along joining on the same day to post on the same thread??
*strokes chin*
Yes. Totally suspicious. Because he would have so much to gain by making up a completely new story and posting as someone else. I'm sure he is done replying because he came here for help and all he got was hassle. You guys accuse him of just wanting to start trouble and then get on his case because he doesn't continue to respond to your prods? really? You won't be hearing anymore from me either because I have nothing to gain by wasting my time with more posts that I'm sure will only be met with negative responses. My only reason for posting in the first place was to try and let the OP know that he was was not the only one this sort of thing as happened to. I've accomplished that. I'm done.
:d +1
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^ Hmm, some what suspicious that the OP hasn't replied past the 4th or 5th comment and you also come along joining on the same day to post on the same thread??
*strokes chin*
And people question why regular members here question these types of threads. The OP hasn't responded in days and this character a few posts up registered today and has only made posts in this thread.
People do it all the time.
I do. I even inspect it for dents, loose home button, screen issues, etc. Perhaps you are one of those that need to do it just in case.
Inspection is cool, but if I happened to find a loose screw on the outside of the case? I wouldn't tighten it, I'd take advantage of the warranty. Why? If I happened to damage the screw head when tightening, they'd have proof of tampering if I needed a real repair later on.
Load of tosh, I'm sorry. The fact that there was a screw missing from the phone is proof enough. And they will have, if requested, given him a written work authorisation saying such (hint: whenever they deny services - it's logged so that if you go to another store it flags up as soon as you put the serial in
I guess you'll probably quote the MagnusonMoss Warranty Act at some point, so I'll get in first. Tampering and/or misuse is a perfectly valid reason to void a warranty under that act.
Actually it's not, the FTC has confirmed no less than 63 times that tampering is NOT a valid reason to void your warranty in fact there is NO reason they can void your warranty except for abuse, damage, and unreasonable expense as a result of something you did (like welding your iPhone shut so they can't work on it).
(b) Duties and conditions imposed on consumer by warrantor
(1) In fulfilling the duties under subsection (a) of this section
respecting a written warranty, the warrantor shall not impose any
duty other than notification upon any consumer as a condition of
securing remedy of any consumer product which malfunctions, is
defective, or does not conform to the written warranty, unless the
warrantor has demonstrated in a rulemaking proceeding, or can
demonstrate in an administrative or judicial enforcement proceeding
(including private enforcement), or in an informal dispute
settlement proceeding, that such a duty is reasonable.
If anyone wants to void your warranty for simply opening up a device you own they need to demonstrate to a government panel that having such a requirement is reasonable. Hint: Nobody has EVER received this exception in the history of the United States to void. In fact the FTC as I mentioned has repeatedly confirmed that non warranter service absolutly does not void your warranty.
Again the law specifically defines the exact cases where your warranty can be voided and under no circumstances can a company void it for any other reason whatsoever.
(c) Waiver of standards
The performance of the duties under subsection (a) of this
section shall not be required of the warrantor if he can show that
the defect, malfunction, or failure of any warranted consumer
product to conform with a written warranty, was caused by damage
(not resulting from defect or malfunction) while in the possession
of the consumer, or unreasonable use (including failure to provide
reasonable and necessary maintenance).
The ONLY legal reason to void your warranty is if the defect you are seeking to be fixed was CAUSED by your damage or unreasonable use. And the warrantor must SHOW with clear proof that your damage or unreasonable use caused the defect.
The only other exception is if you do something to make it unreasonably costly to warranty the item such as welding it shut.
The law could not possibly be clearer on what does and what does not void your warranty because it is not exclusionary but inclusionary. Meaning it literally gives you the only reasons you can void a warranty for (asside from exceptions given in special circumstances by government panels which are extremly rare).
This is actually true. The problem is, most customers (and store reps, for that matter) don't know this and continue to proceed illegally.
You can shout as much as you like (I can use big fonts too), but in my eyes, the opening, taking apart, and putting back together of a phone when upon said putting back together it stops working properly, amounts to misuse.
Feel free to show an actual court case where this was overruled though (I'm talking about taking apart, not just opening here which is the case in this thread if a screw was missing).
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And there is the thing you fail to understand. The things Apple noticed on the phone and it's defect are completely unrelated. We're talking about a screw loose and a fingerprint. The phone did not stop working DUE to being taken apart or anywhere remotely near the time that it could have been taken apart. In fact the OP doesn't even think the phone was EVER taken apart but that a screw just came loose by itself which other posters have confirmed can happen on it's own.
This situation is the furthest possible thing you could have from 'Proof that the owner damaged their own device'. What you have here is something that you'd be grasping at straws to call guesswork. It's simply put ************. There's a reason the law states that if you want to deny a warranty you need clearly and without doubt show that the customer caused the damage they are seeking be fixed. It's not the customers job to prove their innocence and waste their time. The buren is 100% on the company to show clear proof of owner damage or fix the product.
Other than that, this one poorly informed Genius' claim is NOT that the OP damaged his device, because they have no proof of that. Their claim is that servicing the device by a non-Apple technician voided the warranty. This a completely illegal claim. The FTC has specifically addressed this exact issue and on numerous occasions clarified and re-clarified that voiding a warranty due to service by non-manufacturer party goes directly against the letter and intention of the law and was one of the exact practices U.S. law intends to make illegal. Not only does claiming your warranty is void if you use non-Apple service directly violate warranty law, but it also violates anti-trust law.
So simply put the genius' denial of the OP's warranty is completely illegal from at least 3 different standpoints.
1. The genius did not provide the necessary proof and did not clearly show that the OP's damage caused the defect.
2. The genius did not even claim that the damage caused the defect, which he must do to void the warranty.
3. The genius' entire basis for voiding the warranty has been specifically singled out numerous times as being illegal.
Here's another part of the law that is relevant:
if any incidental expenses are incurred because the remedy is not made within a reasonable time or because the warrantor imposed an unreasonable duty upon the consumer as a condition of securing remedy, then the consumer shall be entitled to recover reasonable incidental expenses which are so incurred in any action against the warrantor.
Because the genius made an unreasonable and blatantly illegal claim that the warranty was void, Apple actually owes him compensation incidental expenses for addressing the issue a second time after the genius wasted his time including:
-Travel Expenses
-Taking Time off From Work
etc
So besides being owed a repaired phone, he may also be owed compensation for his time being wasted. Perhapse a new battery case or set of headphones is in order? (Apple Genius' do give out accessories to compensate you for inconvenience as a policy of courtesy FYI but in this case he's legally entitled to compensation for his inconvenience).
Hope that helps, OP.
I opened my iPhone 5 cause it was bent out of the box to fix the issue.
When I opened it, there were black fingerprints on the back of the display.
Needless to say, it was that way straight from the factory. Quality is really lacking in the last gen iPhone.
1. uhm if ur phone crashed, did u do a system restore?
2. i would be so mad if they deny me service and accuse me of opening my phone, not to mention accuse my cousin. u should escalate this one way or the other, to the store or over the phone.
3. show them ur receipt.
2. i would be so mad if they deny me service and accuse me of opening my phone, not to mention accuse my cousin. u should escalate this one way or the other, to the store or over the phone.
3. show them ur receipt.