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That's like saying GM has a design flaw in the Corvette because some guy runs a red light and slams into you.

Jeesh!:eek:

First, sarcasm. Second, it wasn't wasn't regarding the company's design. It was responding to a comment that said if you drop anything and it breaks, it is 100% your fault.
 
Nonetheless, making products to a lower standard just because they wont be in use 5 years down the road is just foolish. Not only does it advocate the consumer getting screwed over with an inferior product

Why does under engineering (as opposed to over) have to mean a lower standard? I think it could it just mean a shift in standards. I feel like electronics are increasingly being built more like luxury goods, but are simultaneously becoming more disposable, as more and more people adopt the yearly upgrade path for a widening variety of products.

Why should a device that will be used for 1-2 years be built with the same bulletproof construction as something that will be used for 10? Because if it's not, it will be perceived as cheap junk, even though it will only be owned and used for the same amount of time as cheap junk. And if it's perceived as junk, companies can't justify the price tag.

Manufacturing isn't what it used to be. A camera in 1970 took months to machine and assemble, mostly by hand. Today, computerized factories do it in hours. Costs are down and quality is up. So to differentiate themselves, companies have to come up with ways to entice us. Enter overbuilt.
 
Design can only get you so far until boredom hits. When I look back at my all-time favorite phones, most of them were NOT the best-looking. They were either just reliable, durable, and practical. I guess it is like my previous girlfriends. Some can be beautiful on the outside, but untrustworthy on the inside. I didn't buy iPhone 4 mostly for design. I bought it for better features which I wanted since 2007. Apple's philosophy of ease of use has always been there.

iPhone 4 is the first phone I've owned to combine solid function and excellent looks for me. Like some others said, like it matters after a few years? These manufacturers need to keep wanting you to buy the next one and the next one and so on. The industry is fickle and live on fads. Every phone is really on "borrowed time" and have lifespans shorter the automobiles.

I was reading about Steve Jobs and find his story to be fascinating. I'm Roman Catholic, but have been reading about other religions to broaden my scope. I just find it ironic that Steve Jobs is Buddhist, but his company knows how to make Earthly desires that we find ourselves very attached to. Buddhism is not about materialism at all. It is about letting go of our attachments is when we truly die and reach nirvana. But the phone industry is based on "reincarnation." Phones and its design is all temporary like our lives.

*goes back listening to "Dust in the Wind" by Kansas*
 
Funny you should mention durability. Our need for perceived durability was also discussed in the film I watched last night. Marc Newsom mentioned that we could all easily still be using the cell phone we had 5 years ago, but in those 5 years, most of us have had 5 or more different cell phones. And it's not because they wear out, it's because we always want the newest thing, partly because that's our nature, and partly because we've been trained to want the newest things, by way of marketing, media, and society as a whole.

Also in the film, Karim Rashid and others made some interesting points about the sustainability of manufacturing products, in particular electronics. He opined that his next computer should be made of cardboard. Electronics are discarded long before they're dead, so why build them to last a lifetime?

20 years ago if you bought a $500 SLR camera, you were careful with it. If you dropped it, it broke, period. And if you dropped it and broke, it wasn't a flaw in the camera, it was just your stupid clumsiness. But today, our $500 electronics are not allowed to be fragile. We demand that they be able to be thrown at a wall in a rage, or carelessly dropped, and they're expected to perform flawlessly and without sustaining a scratch. To me, this is more about people becoming more spoiled rotten and inconsiderate than it is about the actual need for more durable products.

Interesting thread. I am seeking out the movie and will watch it... it sounds interesting.

As for the iP4, it is the first iPhone I've owned. My wife has the 3GS. She has hers in a case, which adds some bulk, but to me it feels plastic-y. I like the dense feel of the 4 (I use only a bumper).

To the durability of devices, my first cell phone was an LG something or other with a color inside and outside screen. It had a camera so you could have picture ID... seriously, it was the **** in 2002. I had it in the side pocket of my carpenter jeans one night getting in to a wooden booth at a BBQ restaurant and I leaned on it on one of the screw covers of the bench that was raised up and cracked the outside screen. The outside still worked, but the inside screen must've had more damage because it was just white. The phone still functioned, as in I could dial and call, but couldn't see any of my contacts or anything.

Before I get "cool story bro"'d the point is I have been much more careful with all of my devices since that point. I've noticed that people with cracked screens of iPhones or otherwise seem to be high on the douchbaggery scale to me, and regardless of the durability of their device, they would have damaged it somehow. Unfortunately, even the best designers in the world can't "common sense" proof a phone.

Now, you could hand me the least durable phone in the world, and if it is operational, and save for a total freak accident, I'm going to take care of it. Especially since I pay hundreds of dollars for it.

To your point about phones wearing out... I had a Samsung something or other, the one that you could flip the phone open in portrait and also in landscape, and the keys were oriented in two directions (the updated model has LCD keys that change depending on position) and the zero button quit working. I had the ROKR and RAZR back in the day, and they both had keys that became dysfunctional. So in 5 years, I've had 4 or 5 phones, and a couple have worn out. The others I swapped because they sucked, or I just wanted the new thing.

I don't plan on switching to the iP5, especially if it is just a 4GS (for lack of a better term).
 
Apple is constantly trying to make things thinner. And adding curves makes it feel thinner. Thats Apple for you.
 
Inherently, people are flawed and will drop things. Sorry, but it's true. No matter how careful you are, it's almost certain that over the life of your phone it's going to get dropped. I don't know a single person who hasn't dropped their phone at least once. Whether it's because someone runs into you on the street, or you trip walking up the stairs, or you just accidentally bump it off the table. Good design, by any manufacturer, would be to realize that this phone WILL be dropped and make it durable enough to last. It's not entirely the consumer's fault. If Apple made a phone with an entirely porcelain back, and someone set it down on a table and it shattered, would you still call it the consumer's fault? No. That's bad design. A phone that can't take a drop or two? Also bad design. It's not unreasonable for the consumer to expect a manufacturer to make a phone that can survive in day to day life.
 
I'm talking from an industrial design standpoint. Two antennae, whose sole functions can be been compromised by shorting them with touch, should probably not be placed where they can be touched.

Your initial point was valid. Regardless of how it performs in comparison to any other phone, it's still a poor design.

And since you too seem to state facts, do you have a source that backs up your claim that the 4's antenna is "better"?

According to the iPhone 4 tests by AntennaSys, even though the performance of the antenna is highly affected by gripping the phone, it still outperforms the iPhone 3G under "all conditions".

What they didn't seem to realize, however, is that the radio in the iPhone 3G is limited to 3.6 MBit/s. If you look at the graph, you'll notice that the speeds for the iPhone 3G are consistently measured around that limit. Therefore their conclusion that the iPhone 4 always gets better data rates is probably a result of the radio, not the antenna.

Many people on the forum, however, have reported getting an additional bar or two than they used to get with their previous iPhone in the same area, for whatever you think that's worth.

Sorry if my opinions came across as fact.

Technically, you are supposed to write opinions as definitive statements (you had it right). In other words, you aren't supposed to use phrases like "I think that" or "in my opinion".
 
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Whatever they do, they better not make the next iPhone shaped like an iPod touch/iPad.

There's nothing wrong with the current design. It's a step up in construction and detail from the previous gens. Sure it's not as comfortable to hold in the hand, but that shouldn't be the only factor when critiquing the design.
 
You have to understand Apple wanted to use glass on the back. Do you think the glass piece was going to be curved? If they decide to use steel for the back in the next one, I don't expect it to be curved. iPhone 4's back can always be unscrewed and changed anyway.

The slits on the steel band was the antenna. They wanted to minimize the capacity internally to fit a bigger battery while making it 3mm thinner. Even the volume and vibrate switch is greater material and not the plastic ones used in the previous three iPhones. There is a give and take in anything. Do you want better ergonomics or better materials, longer battery, and better looks? Gee, I'll pick the latter.

I never found ANY iPhone "ergonomically flawless" for a phone. It is like holding a slightly taller 5th gen iPod (classic) against my ear. I find more comfort with phones that are more narrower. I found my thicker Nokia N82 was more comfortable to hold against my ear. Like a cordless phone. But now that screens are getting bigger, I don't expect candy-bar style phones like that to be made anymore. I have a case and use my headphones, speaker, or my Bluetooth piece to talk on my iPhone 4 to solve any uncomfort.

It is no wonder Angry Birds is so addicting and popular. I guarantee the next iPhone will be put through durability tests found on YouTube and people with unrealistic expectations will want it to be completely indestructible. When most people's very nature has more to do with just wanting to destroy things and then whine if the answers can't be spoon-fed to their problem or issue with it.
 
Inherently, people are flawed and will drop things. Sorry, but it's true. No matter how careful you are, it's almost certain that over the life of your phone it's going to get dropped. I don't know a single person who hasn't dropped their phone at least once. Whether it's because someone runs into you on the street, or you trip walking up the stairs, or you just accidentally bump it off the table. Good design, by any manufacturer, would be to realize that this phone WILL be dropped and make it durable enough to last. It's not entirely the consumer's fault. If Apple made a phone with an entirely porcelain back, and someone set it down on a table and it shattered, would you still call it the consumer's fault? No. That's bad design. A phone that can't take a drop or two? Also bad design. It's not unreasonable for the consumer to expect a manufacturer to make a phone that can survive in day to day life.

And my 4 has take 4 or 5 drops with no problem. You can say that plastic is better, but it will still break if you drop it wrong. People just don't like to take personal responsibility for their clumsiness, remember when the Wii came out? If you can't hold onto something, that's fine, but don't blame the manufacturer.
 
I love the design of my iPhone 4. It is such a beautiful product and very well constructed. I think it's one of Apple's best designed products, and I even like the design better than my iPhone 2G. My iPhone 3G would be placed last because of the plastic construction and how the edges near the dock connector and headphone port showed tiny cracks after a couple of months.

And having owned the original iPhone and 3G, both of them couldn't last very long because of the hardware that they were lacking. After a few iOS update and the advent of the App store, they just weren't fast enough to run the software very well, but the iPhone has a great processor and Ram, so if I don't upgrade to the iPhone 5, I'm pretty confident that this device has enough power to last me another cycle very comfortably.
 
From a design point of view, the iPhone 4 is much more well designed than the 3G, but some time ago I picked up again the 3G from my brother and it felt so good in my hand that I knew design won over usability
 
I always thought the iPhone 3G/s felt a bit plasticky construction wise, but from an ergonomic standpoint, it was nearly perfect. The tapered edges made the phone disappear into your hand, while providing a more effortlessly grippable form, as compared to the iPhone 4. When holding a 3G, I never thought about the physical phone; I was simply cradling a portal to the software.

The iPhone 4 sidesteps the ergonomic flow of the 3G. It's sharp edges and dead flat glass back seem superflous. It looks great on a table and in advertising photos, but held in your hands, it calls too much attention to itself, instead of doing the 3G's disappearing act. And of course, the iPhone 4's biggest breach of good design rules is its external antenna. Form follows function was out the window when it came to designing the antenna.

The 3G/3GS was definitely better feeling in the hand, but I also felt because it was curved and sleek it was easier to drop. The more angular iPhone 4 gives a more solid grip that doesn't feel as good but will stay in your hand better. Maybe in iPhone 6 they manage to combine the two, possibly with a back material that isn't supersmooth.

The antenna is actually a really good design, it's just that Apple failed to add some sort of coating that would make the surface nonconductive. I'm guessing we will see something like that in the iPhone 5.
 
Fixed it for you

/thread

Then how do you explain the variations in performance of the iPhone 4 with or without a bumper according to the following measurments?

3Graph.jpg
 
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