iPhone iPhone 6's affecting router/wifi

[tregarton]

Had Apple gear for years. Everything worked well. Bought two new iPhone 6's to replace my iPhone 4 and my wifes iPhone 5s. My network at home is BT infinity so I have a BT hub 3 but due to wireless positioning I have a net gear access point which is my point of wireless connection and the bt hub wireless is turned off.

All was fine, when I turned on the second iPhone 6 after about 2 minutes or so both phones loose internet, sometimes other devices on my network are affected as well - Sometimes they are not! If I leave one of the iPhone 6's off my network all is fine. Doesn't matter which phone is off.

I've taken both iPhones to my work and used the wireless and all is fine. They sit there fine and work/play nicely together. At home I've reset all the ip's and turned things on and off to see if a conflict can be found. I've even brought home my wireless access point from work and replaced my net gear AP but the problem still occurs.

This means I've narrowed it down to the BT HUB 3. What is in the iPhone 6's to cause such a problem? Has anyone else had this problem? My iPads all with iOS8 on seem to work fine so either the phone hardware is causing a conflict or the iOS 8 with the hardware of the new phone is? Advise on how to fix or further testing options would be most appreciated. Are there any settings on the phones or router I should try changing? I'm starting to hit a dead end with any further ideas!

 

[jorgesalvador]

Yes something similar is happening to me, my setup:

iPhone 4S iOS 8
ADSL2+ Router from TP-Link, model WD8970

The iPhone will connect on the first try normally to Wi-fi. Then if I leave it locked for a while, when I wake it it will try to reconnect to the Wi-Fi but never will be able to. In addition to this, when this happens the router loses Internet connectivity!

It is driving me insane indeed

 

[tregarton]

I think it is all to do with Apple's new MAC address privacy system. The fake Mac address is issued an ip then when you join the network the real MAC address is used along with the original IP address. This is where the routers are struggling - especially the older routers either the routers need firmware updates or Apple will have to do some more changes to their software, something needs sorting quickly!

 

[Grayburn]

My 5s on iOS 8 is having trouble with my BT HH 4, never had any grief when on iOS 7.

 

[tregarton]

A friend of mine has bought two iPhone 6's and has a BT HH5. I'm waiting to here back from him if there is any issue. It looks like more and more that the older routers (not that old by the way) cannot handle the complexities of the new iOS 8 software. I might add my two iPad mini's with iOS 8 are not causing a problem - This could mean the issue lies with the mobile/wifi chip of the iphones combined with iOS 8

 

[falkedup]

I'm having problems with my airport extreme. I was trying to mirror my phone to the Apple TV. I would lose connection to my wifi network and my phone wasnt able to find the network again till it was rebooted. Iphone 6 btw

 

[Skika]

I think it is all to do with Apple's new MAC address privacy system. The fake Mac address is issued an ip then when you join the network the real MAC address is used along with the original IP address. This is where the routers are struggling - especially the older routers either the routers need firmware updates or Apple will have to do some more changes to their software, something needs sorting quickly!

I wish there was an option to turn this off or on.

 

[Nozuka]

did you make sure your router is running the latest firmware too? maybe there's an update?

 

[ScottishCaptain]

This actually isn't unexpected.

It has been known for many, many years now that consumer routers will either drop existing clients, or just plain glitch out when flooded with random changing MAC addresses. There is actually a penetration testing tool called "MDK3" which simulates this exact behaviour. It was found that many routers will falter when hit with this kind of attack.

Apple's new privacy system sounds great on paper, but it is going to cause huge issues worldwide once folks have to deal with crashing access points and disassociated hosts everywhere. Likewise, I'm sure Apple knew about this beforehand but chose to implement the system anyways- as I said, the knowledge of this issue has been common place in the security industry for well over 5 years now, and companies are still making brand new routers today that can be affected.

So it's basically a combination of crappy consumer hardware failing in conjunction with what is essentially a denial of service attack implemented by Apple. Heck, it's not even limited to consumer gear- I've seen the same behaviour in office grade APs as well.

TLDR; better start complaining to Apple. It's their fault for implementing a system they knew would case serious issues.

-SC

 

[bushido]

same is already happening on my iPhone 5. whenever i am home at my family over a weekend or so. i have to reset the router once a day because it randomly stops working even thought it still shows the connected symbol. my sis says it never happens when i am not home.

 

[Nozuka]

it is a great feature - but there should be an option to disable it.

 

[andrewket]

Mac privacy? What's the point of that? Mac addresses are like street addresses for Ethernet. I bet this will break at hotels and other public wifi networks that require to accept terms. They maintain a white list of approved Mac addresses. Changing your address after auth is likely going to cause a re-auth.

 

[Nozuka]

Mac privacy? What's the point of that? Mac addresses are like street addresses for Ethernet. I bet this will break at hotels and other public wifi networks that require to accept terms. They maintain a white list of approved Mac addresses. Changing your address after auth is likely going to cause a re-auth.

the fake mac is only used for wifi scanning. its using the correct one for connecting.

some companys have been making alot of money by tracking you in stores with your mac adress. because your phone kept broadcasting your macadress while scanning for networks, it was possible to track your location.

now the iphone uses a random mac for the broadcast.


in more detail:

In shopping malls, for instance, a firm called Euclid Analytics collects, in its own words, “the presence of the device, its signal strength, its manufacturer (Apple, Samsung, etc.), and a unique identifier known as its Media Access Control (MAC) address.” In London last year, one start-up installed a dozen recycling bins that sniffed MAC addresses from passers-by, effectively tracking people through the area via their phones. Such companies go to great lengths to explain that such information in not personally identifiable—except that repeated studies have shown that this data can indeed be used to infer a great deal about your life.

At the core of such tracking is the MAC address, a unique identification number tied to each device. Devices looking for a Wi-Fi network send out their MAC address to identify themselves. Wireless routers receive the signals—and addresses—even if a connection is never made. Companies like Euclid or its peer Turnstyle Solutions use the data to track footfall in stores, how people move about in shops, how long they linger in certain sections, and how often they return. Store-owners use the information to target shoppers with offers (paywall) or to move high-value items to highly-trafficked parts of the shop, among other things.

 

[cynics]

Wow was unaware of all this. Sounds like a double edge sword.

I think I'd take the privacy over all else.

Although my opinion is biased because the wifi I use and at home is unaffected.

If this is a ios 8 thing why does it seem mostly iphone 6 users are affected?

 

[jkozlow3]

the fake mac is only used for wifi scanning. its using the correct one for connecting.

Thank you for correcting the misperception floating about in this thread. I was just about to post and say that I thought that it was only used during passive scanning and not once you've actually connected to an access point. My router assigns fixed IP addresses to all devices on my network based on their MAC address and everything is still working fine in this regard after updating our (4) iOS devices to iOS 8 (although iOS 8.0 seems to have some Wifi speed, range and lag time issues based on my experience and many others who've posted in this forum).

 

[rza49311]

did you make sure your router is running the latest firmware too? maybe there's an update?

This.

Also, what encryption are you using at home? I've read others say WEP causes this problem and WPA2 does not.

 

[JoshS]

I've been having issues with my 6+ and home wifi. I'm running a 3 year old netgear wireless N router with the latest firmware.

When I connect it to the 2.4Ghz channel which is always the most stable for my router, the 6+ will connect fine and work then randomly a few times a minute to once every several minutes disconnect, switch to LTE then reconnect for no reason.

None of my other wifi devices do this or have this issue.

Rebooting my router will stop this behavior for several hours or a day.

I refuse to blame the router because as I said, none of my other devices have this issue or cause problems for my router.

 

[dcorban]

Just because a certain behaviour only occurs when using a certain device does not mean the device is at fault. The router software may not be robust or may not completely follow specifications (not surprising with Netgear).

 

[tregarton]

The problem with a BT router is the firmware is only updated by BT. You cannot add it yourself! So its a waiting game for Apple or BT to fix.

Regards the MAC addressing, I notice from my BT router DHCP table page when the Fake address is used the device is unknown but an IP is assigned to it. I think the problem is arising from when you choose to join a network and then "show" your MAC address and the SAME IP address is used. Within the DHCP table both devices (unknown and iPhone) are shown! One does not cancel out the other!

As mentioned the problems this system would cause is well known by Apple. Yes many routers will work but just as many will crash! I suppose Apple would say it is painful while everyone upgrades/updates to the latest hardware/software to protect themselves! It's just a shame Apple didn't get together with the router firms to ensure this "standard of practice" was ready to go for everyone!

I guess all new devices Apple will make will work this way so it looks like time to change my router!!

 

[thirdeyeopen666]

This.

Also, what encryption are you using at home? I've read others say WEP causes this problem and WPA2 does not.

If you're still using WEP in 2014, there's a problem.

 

[jkozlow3]

If you're still using WEP in 2014, there's a problem.

Lol. +1

 

[Mr.C]

I have BT Infinity broadband using a BT Home Hub 3 and I have an iPhone 6 Plus as well as an iPad Air with iOS 8. I've not had any problems in the last couple of days with both on my home Wi-Fi at the same time.

 

[tregarton]

Well having removed my Home Hub 3 and Netgear wireless access point and installed a new home hub 5 all is well. Looks like there is some old gear that is going to struggle with newer products (obviously).

 

[mazdamiata210]

Anyone with wifi issues try my fix here...

https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=19948906#post19948906