iPhone 7 Again Said to Ship With Lightning-to-3.5mm Headphone Dongle

[Beerstalker]

Further question: is the 3.5mm staying on the various iPads? Macs? Or just the iPhone?

I believe it will be removed from all Apple products.

But let's say that airline might someday supply other information over that USB port like audio, etc., now we have yet another standard that is different from the alleged new lightning audio connection on the iPhone 7.

Not really, it is digital audio, that is pretty much standard. As I've said before headphones will have removable cords and most likely a USB-C port on them. When hooking up to your iPhone/iPad you will use a lightning to USB-C cord. When hooking up to an airplane, car, laptop, desktop, etc. you will use a USB-C to USB-C cable. Beats headphones might go with a lightning port on them instead of USB-C so you would use a lightning to lightning cable to hook them up to an iPhone/iPad, or USB-C to lightning cable to hook up to other stuff.

 

[Mac 128]

I believe it will be removed from all Apple products.

I don't. I think they will add Lightning to the Macs, but only those products that need to have the 3.5mm jack initially removed will. The Retina MacBook will remove it as there is no room to otherwise add lightning. That may not be true for the new MBP which has room for Lightning opposite the headphone jack in rumored leaks.

But there's no reason to justify its removal from iPads at this point. Both iPads and Macs have widespread use among those who use Android phones, so that would potentially alienate customers who won't be using Lightning headphones otherwise.

Once Android drops the 3.5mm jack, then Apple might start retiring the jack on all products. It also gives Apple customers time to adjust to not having the 3.5mm jack, so they're prepared when it's dropped completely.

 

[Foremastjack]

I believe it will be removed from all Apple products.

.

You believe it will be from all Apple products, why? Has there been any rumor for any other product line? It would make using Macs for audio production a pain, really. Dongles everywhere. It seems wildly unlikely that Lightning will ever be anything but proprietary, if Thunderbolt is anything to go by.

 

[Beerstalker]

The second part of the post you guys quoted is why I think it will be removed from all devices (I'm guessing I edited it while you were posting). Remove it from Macbooks and put in extra USB-C ports and cut down on different parts needed in the design. Remove it from the iPad to cut down parts because people will use the lightning connector. I don't believe lightning will be added to Macbooks or iMac etc. Those will just get more USB-C ports.

Lightning will be kept for the more portable devices like iPad/iPhone/iPod and maybe Beats headphones. Computers/monitors will stick with USB-C.

Why keep it around when you are trying to get people to switch to newer headphones that will hook up over USB-C or lightning?

We haven't seen rumors about it happening on other items because we haven't seen many rumors on them period. My guess is we won't see any new iPads until next spring, so we won't see rumors on them much until after the iPhone is revealed/launched. Who knows if there will ever be new Macs ha ha ha.

 

[Macyourdayy]

Really? So, what part of physics says that, eg, 4 inch separation is sufficient but 3 inch separation is not sufficient? Is it physically impossible for the human brain to perceive an, eg, 5 ms time difference between left and right ear signal as a direction different from straight on but a 2 ms time difference will not be perceived as such. Physics only says the stereo effect will get less pronounced the closer the two speakers are. Physics doesn't say were the cut-off is.[/QUOTE

I guess you'll just have to swap between ears in the 2ms to hear channel separation as I'm pretty sure left and right stereo channels are designed to be heard clearly by each ear and differences between the channels give the brain spatial information to infer depth and positioning. You know, like having the left earbud in the left ear, etc, rather than shoving them both in the same ear.

[doublepost=1469576454][/doublepost]

The iPhone 7 could mark the moment everything started to turn downward for the iPhone. The next earnings call should be interesting.

Are you an analyst perhaps?
[doublepost=1469576743][/doublepost]

Shipping a device with a dongle? You couldn't make this stuff up. Samsung marketing are going to have a party over this one.

They seem to have parties over everything. Probably get terrible hangovers.

 

[Mac 128]

The second part of the post you guys quoted is why I think it will be removed from all devices (I'm guessing I edited it while you were posting). Remove it from Macbooks and put in extra USB-C ports and cut down on different parts needed in the design. Remove it from the iPad to cut down parts because people will use the lightning connector. I don't believe lightning will be added to Macbooks or iMac etc. Those will just get more USB-C ports.

Lightning will be kept for the more portable devices like iPad/iPhone/iPod and maybe Beats headphones. Computers/monitors will stick with USB-C.

Why keep it around when you are trying to get people to switch to newer headphones that will hook up over USB-C or lightning?

We haven't seen rumors about it happening on other items because we haven't seen many rumors on them period. My guess is we won't see any new iPads until next spring, so we won't see rumors on them much until after the iPhone is revealed/launched. Who knows if there will ever be new Macs ha ha ha.

Where Apple is concerned I wouldn't be surprised by anything.

However, imagine this scenario. A customer buys a brand new iPhone, and a brand new Mac, together, along with a brand new pair of Lightning headphones. When the customer asks how it connects to the MacBook, they're told they will have to buy an adapter, or an optional USBc cable. So whenever they want to switch devices, they'll have to get out their adapter or do a cable swap. That's not going to go over to well.

Now I fully expect Beats to have one Lightning and one USBc, just like some have two 3.5mm jacks now to accomodate pass through. The USBc will work with everything else, and the Lightning allows pass through for sharing or charging. And the same USBc-to-Lightning cable flipped around allows the headphones to connect to either port. Nevertheless, can you imagine the Apple sales person explaining that the customer will have to do this just to unplug from the iPhone and plug into the Mac, and back, every time?

Third party headphones won't likely have a Lightning pass through making it that much more problematic as they'll have to carry a separate cable.

And I've already explained all the other potential benefits of having a Lightning port on the Mac, especially the Retina MacBook. The MBP is rumored to have 4 USBc ports, so how many more does it need?

Apple wants to make a difficult transition easier not harder. And for the Apple customer who is exclusively using one pair of headphones with all Apple gear, I can't see them doing anything that will make the experience more convoluted than it has to be -- that's the reason Apple customers buy only Apple, for the synergy. And what you're suggesting is messy, unless of course they go wireless. In which case, why offer Lightning headphones at all? And who knows, maybe Apple won't -- I just can't see it.

But again, anything's possible these days. They might even add a second pointless speaker to the bottom of the iPhone with the reclaimed space from the 3.5mm Jack. But I can't see them being that short sighted with so much at stake in this transition.

 

[Burger Thing]

By the way, I flew here on an American Airlines domestic flight and plugged my iPhone into the built-in USB port in the entertainment system. You know what else I bet that USB port will support with a software update? That's right ... Digital audio.

I guess then you will need an adapter for your Lightning Headphones then.

Some people on this forum have agendas. They refuse to try and understand anyone's differing point of view, because they only have one goal, and everything they debate is designed to support their premise, whether reasonable or not. It is not logical or reasonable to assume Apple is out to screw the customer, nor themselves, yet that's the point of departure many seem to start their debate from.

This works both ways, though.

Maybe, just maybe it might occur to you that people have read your arguments, accepted and understood your point of view but still decided to disagree?

Given that it was you, who posted that terribly sad Strawman Pic a few days ago, I have a hard time to follow and agree with your particular argument quoted above, though. Rather the opposite: also looking at the quantity and verve of your postings I have the feeling the one with the agenda might be you.

 

[Macyourdayy]

Where Apple is concerned I wouldn't be surprised by anything.

However, imagine this scenario. A customer buys a brand new iPhone, and a brand new Mac, together, along with a brand new pair of Lightning headphones. When the customer asks how it connects to the MacBook, they're told they will have to buy an adapter, or an optional USBc cable. So whenever they want to switch devices, they'll have to get out their adapter or do a cable swap. That's not going to go over to well.

Now I fully expect Beats to have one Lightning and one USBc, just like some have two 3.5mm jacks now to accomodate pass through. The USBc will work with everything else, and the Lightning allows pass through for sharing or charging. And the same USBc-to-Lightning cable flipped around allows the headphones to connect to either port. Nevertheless, can you imagine the Apple sales person explaining that the customer will have to do this just to unplug from the iPhone and plug into the Mac, and back, every time?

Third party headphones won't likely have a Lightning pass through making it that much more problematic as they'll have to carry a separate cable.

And I've already explained all the other potential benefits of having a Lightning port on the Mac, especially the Retina MacBook. The MBP is rumored to have 4 USBc ports, so how many more does it need?

Apple wants to make a difficult transition easier not harder. And for the Apple customer who is exclusively using one pair of headphones with all Apple gear, I can't see them doing anything that will make the experience more convoluted than it has to be -- that's the reason Apple customers buy only Apple, for the synergy. And what you're suggesting is messy, unless of course they go wireless. In which case, why offer Lightning headphones at all? And who knows, maybe Apple won't -- I just can't see it.

But again, anything's possible these days. They might even add a second pointless speaker to the bottom of the iPhone with the reclaimed space from the 3.5mm Jack. But I can't see them being that short sighted with so much at stake in this transition.

Well argued. While a little lightning port on the computers is interesting (I like ports), I still think it's insane to remove the universal headphone/audio port as it's electrically simple with no further code or chip modifications, keeps external devices as simple as possible, there's no further risk of audio delay or other variations, external power is not necessary and blueteeth are already available if desired.
What scares me with the USBc thing is the likelihood of losing the amazing magnetic charging port, taking us back to the last century.

 

[Blaze4G]

You know what's confusing? People defending the removal of he headphone jack. First they say *Bluetooth is the future, general consumers don't hear a difference between wired and Bluetooth or care*. Then they say *lightning headphones allows for digital audio so better quality*. Didn't you guys just say general consumers dont care about the quality difference?

 

[hiddenmarkov]

You know what's confusing? People defending the removal of he headphone jack. First they say *Bluetooth is the future, general consumers don't hear a difference between wired and Bluetooth or care*. Then they say *lightning headphones allows for digital audio so better quality*. Didn't you guys just say general consumers dont care about the quality difference?

They pick statements as it suits them.


What I don't get is we can assume dongle will be larger than actual physical implementation of 3.5 jack . When the replacement will be bigger than the actual inplace item...where the hell is the progress really.

My take on this is 3.5 is not dead. I hear well apple moves forward. 3.5 is not dead to move forward from. Its alive and well in video and audio. My interest in this. Before show waits, long intermissions and gear changes all done...my 3.5 monitors go into the iPhone to listen to music. Same monitors that later go into camera (or external audio recorder) to monitor what is being picked up by the mic. Then into the MBP for editing. Consistency in gear use from start to finish.
have enough crap to keep track of with my setup, not needing more in the future just to use my iPhone really.


Some will go but its an adapter, just bring it. Do video or audio, we already carry a fair amount of these. By need. I am not getting a 3.5 mic into my preamp's XLR inputs any other way. As adapter number need grows....that camel is starting to turn its head around and say you know buddy there is saying about what 1 straw can do...right?

My case is also if you like BT that much....you have it already. we can all get along here really. You have your BT, we keep the 3.5...we all win

Yes, I know...it will get a speaker it seems. These people sound like Nigel Tufnel to me. "But it goes to 11...". Nigel Tufnel was in the running to be the lead idiot in the band and should not be emulated I could say. Young bloods not getting the reference...watch This is Spinal Tap, thank me later as its ,imo, a great movie.

 

[Mac 128]

You know what's confusing? People defending the removal of he headphone jack. First they say *Bluetooth is the future, general consumers don't hear a difference between wired and Bluetooth or care*. Then they say *lightning headphones allows for digital audio so better quality*. Didn't you guys just say general consumers dont care about the quality difference?

Those arguments are not mutually exclusive. And they are contextual.

Most of Apple's customers likely don't care much about higher quality audio, and are more than happy to listen to music over cheap earbuds. Therefore, they're not likely to notice the quality loss via Bluetooth. However, many customers do notice the difference and for them, current Bluetooth won't work. But, there is BT 5 on the horizon, and other improvements Apple may make, by introducing new codecs, etc. Nevertheless it's not likely to meet the standards of "audiophiles" yet. For them, there's Lightning which will offer the customer the ability to get as high a quality audio as they want, something currently not easy to do on the iPhone without a lot of bulky external gear and a kludgy interface with iOS.

In the end, the future is wireless, but many things have to improve before that's the default choice by everyone. But it does seem as if the technology is at a tipping point. In the meantime, Apple will offer a way for everyone to get the quality they want, via Lightning. And by getting behind it as an audio delivery method, it will be simple and easy, and with increased demand, much less expensive than it is now.

 

[44267547]

Those arguments are not mutually exclusive. And they are contextual.

Most of Apple's customers likely don't care much about higher quality audio, and are more than happy to listen to music over cheap earbuds. Therefore, they're not likely to notice the quality loss via Bluetooth. However, many customers do notice the difference and for them, current Bluetooth won't work. But, there is BT 5 on the horizon, and other improvements Apple may make, by introducing new codecs, etc. Nevertheless it's not likely to meet the standards of "audiophiles" yet. For them, there's Lightning which will offer the customer the ability to get as high a quality audio as they want, something currently not easy to do on the iPhone without a lot of bulky external gear and a kludgy interface with iOS.

In the end, the future is wireless, but many things have to improve before that's the default choice by everyone. But it does seem as if the technology is at a tipping point. In the meantime, Apple will offer a way for everyone to get the quality they want, via Lightning. And by getting behind it as an audio delivery method, it will be simple and easy, and with increased demand, much less expensive than it is now.

In the event of the 3.5 Jack being deleted or the barking possibility it is now inevitable, have you accepted Apple will place a second speaker in its space of the absence of the Jack? Or is denial still prevalent with snarky comments to add? Because it was you lecturing me why Apple wouldn't do such a thing and I was incorrect that it would not happen. It also appears your frequently remembered around here reference your infamous Strawman picture.

In any case, when I order my iPhone 7 on launch day and receive it via UPS, I will be thinking of you when I enjoy the stereo sound emanating from the second speaker, all knowingly the bigger they are, the harder they fall.

 

[aces99]

While straddling my chair at work, my dongle became moist after reading your post.

lol.

 

[Macyourdayy]

Is it the case that there are no perceptible stereo effects if the distance between the speakers is less than 2 inch? Or what is that minimum distance? Everybody assumes that there is no stereo effect but does anybody actually know what the required minimum distance is?



Because there are no legitimate uses of the iPhone speaker(s). Right. I guess the better speakers in the two iPad Pro models also serve no other purpose than to enable people to annoy others even more.

I use the speaker on my ipad 4 frequently. Privately. Often instead of AirPlay because it's surprisingly good.
While a second speaker on an iPhone might be possible (who needs more battery life?), it will slightly improve the sound level, but I've only found the iPhone speakers to be barely functional, even on the 6s+.

 

[whsbuss]

Well I hate wires so its fine with me.

 

[SSDGUY]

Depends how small your head is.

It's stereo...for an ant - specifically if L vs R audio is separated.

YUP!

"What IS this? A stereo for ANTS?" - Derek Zoolander at Jony Ives' presentation

 

[Mac 128]

I use the speaker on my ipad 4 frequently. Privately. Often instead of AirPlay because it's surprisingly good.
While a second speaker on an iPhone might be possible (who needs more battery life?), it will slightly improve the sound level, but I've only found the iPhone speakers to be barely functional, even on the 6s+.

Correct, a second speaker on an iPhone won't bring the iPhone even up to the level of the iPad 4. The trade offs simply aren't worth it:

1) the stereo speakers won't be in the proper orientation for watching a movie, where spatial cues might actually be useful.
2) the iPhone speaker is about the size of a quarter. Even with the 3.5mm headphone jack gone, it will require significantly more room to add it, and the battery will likely have to be reduced.
3) the increase in volume will not likely be significant in a useful way, and I'm not sure why anyone would need the iPhone to be louder, it's pretty loud now.
4) the sound quality won't improve as the quality of the iPhone speakers are limited by their size, and resonance chambers, for their tiny coils and diaphragms.
5) removing the headphone jack for such trivial gains is a serious mistake, as its a widely used port by many, and adding a second speaker signals that Apple doesn't need to make room for more important features by removing it. Which means that their competition doesn't either. And if their competition doesn't need to remove the headphone jack to keep up with Apples features and performance in a similar-sized flagship phone, Apple will likely be looking at a reversal of the platform switchers trend they've been enjoying.

That's why this rumor doesn't make much sense. And until we see leaks of the actual dual speaker hardware, I'm going to say that the leaks we've seen of the case with the symmetrical grille, is mostly design and not function -- one CAD mockup even showed the left grille holes not going all the way through.

While I'm supportive of the removal of the headphone jack, I would see replacing it with a second speaker which doesn't provide any additional functionality as a huge misstep at this point. In my opinion, enough people still rely on the functionality of that jack that the inconvenience to the customer of removing it should only be done if there's an actual need to do it. Larger battery? No problem. Inductive charging? No problem. But an inefficient second speaker that needs even more room than the headphone jack provides? That's a problem.

 

[ksnell]

YUP!

"What IS this? A stereo for ANTS?" - Derek Zoolander at Jony Ives' presentation

I literally laughed out loud at work. "Facility for Kids Who Don't Read Good"

 

[wozmatic]

It is a better design than the 6/s.
But taste is personal.

Backwards moving, the iPhone 4 had it right with it's generation. Now they are getting worse.

The rear camera sticking out, the headphone jack gone..

Apple is really motivating us to not buy an iPhone ever again.