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So by that logic, the only way to make the iPhone thinner is to remove the phone part itself. That means removing the 3.5mm jack is completely irrelevant.

It's all about the Apple obsession to go thinner. I just want the company to stop the trend and go back to the iphone 4/5 thickness. When they go thinner, the shoot themselves in the foot more by making it difficult to put in the parts especially compromising the battery life.
 
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Then you misunderstood - it clearly found that a Lightning connector can allow for better audio quality. What it didn't do (and what might be confusing you) is that it didn't say Lightning is better than the 3.5mm connector overall.
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The whole point is that the 3.5mm port takes up space and restricts how thin the phone can be, so apple are rumoured to want to remove it. Similarly the optical drive/floppy drive in the computers etc.
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Why do people have such poor comprehension? the $800 headphone may not be for you but arguing that there's no point due to the audio quality from an iPhone when the whole point of the article is that Lightning headphones allow the use of an external DAC, thereby potentially vastly increasing the quality just shows a lack of understanding.

Why on earth would anyone want a thinner iPhone? The current one is already too thin as you can see from the ridiculously small battery they have in it. Losing the opportunity to charge while listening to music? Thanks, but no thanks. My battery would run out before lunch time on my 6+. Buying a DAC that's usable only on one single device which may probably go the same way the 30pin connector did and be replaced by something that's actually a standard? Not in this life. I've got USB DACs to go with all the devices I have, I've got plenty of high quality headphones with 3,5mm jacks that work with everything I have.

The only thing lightning connected headphones provide is more money to Apple, more annoying dongles to users and lots of lost sales for iPhone 7. That is, if removing the 3,5mm jack is true. I might almost reconsider if they made it twice as thick (or whatever is necessary to make sure no matter what I do the battery WILL LAST THE WHOLE DAY. Fat chance of that happening.)
 
So I wont be able to listen to my headphones and charge my phone at the same time?
Yes you will!

Immagine a cable like this... lightning to your iphone with a female lightning port on top of it ;)
001_small.jpg


Why does evrybody think they won't be able to listen and charge is beyond me!!
 
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Here's a thought; current iPhones have a lightning port AND a headphone jack. Is there any reason why Apple can't keep both but pack bluetooth or lightning earbuds with the phone if that's the standard they want to promote? By all means, advance audio technology, but there's no need to make it an all or nothing transition. Legacy ports and backwards compatibility are almost always welcome features in technology. Best of both worlds.

Exactly. We are going to upgrade to a phone with fewer features...
 
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This 'upgrade' is sounding less appealing by the minute - my boys use their aux 3.5 jacks in their dorms daily and my wife uses it in the kitcken - just because Apple wants $$$ we will not be upgrading or buying adapters - not that Apple cares obviously.
 
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Seeing as iTunes supports ALAC, why would Apple be interested in supporting FLAC?

Apple haven't tried to justify this as a move for audiophiles, they haven't even announced it. The reality is that they're probably interested in dropping 3.5mm so they can make thinner phones.

Agree. The fact iTunes is still 256kbps is proof Apple isn't interested in the audiophile market. There are other streaming services like Tidal that do offer higher quality sound.

The move away from the 3.5mm jack is clearly to create a path to the type of ultra-thin bendable phones posted here yesterday. The mistake, IMHO, though is, Apple is jumping the gun a bit and not collaborating with other manufacturers to make lighting a standard. Not everyone just uses the phones packed in the iPhone box. A lot of people keep those packed in the box and have their own go-to phones they don't want to part with or have to dongle up, something especially impractical for a pocket device.
 
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So MUCH wrong with this idea. My head wants to explode.

My headphones are over $1 K. I'm sure as hell not going to have a connection on them that is proprietary.

If you are THAT serious about headphones and sound quality, you should invest in a small headphone amplifier.

I DAC in the headphone connection is ridiculous. What, is it a $10 dollar part, a $50 dollar part of the cans??? What happens when I want to use these headphones at home through my $4500 DAC. Oh, wait, the connection doesn't work. I have to settle for the DAC in the wires of the headphones???

Yikes. No sale. Won't even stop when walking by...
 
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So MUCH wrong with this idea. My head wants to explode.

My headphones are over $1 K. I'm sure as hell not going to have a connection on them that is proprietary.

If you are THAT serious about headphones and sound quality, you should invest in a small headphone amplifier.

I DAC in the headphone connection is ridiculous. What, is it a $10 dollar part, a $50 dollar part of the cans??? What happens when I want to use these headphones at home through my $4500 DAC. Oh, wait, the connection doesn't work. I have to settle for the DAC in the wires of the headphones???

Yikes. No sale. Won't even stop when walking by...

I don't have a problem with apple doing things like this. If new connections provide a clear benefit, then make the move. But for such a profitable company, an adapter should be included for their customers. Charging them a mandatory accessory fee is unacceptable. If they do choose to make this switch, I hope a lightning to stereo adapter is included for people who may not have wireless headphones, or have a really nice wired set.
 
I disagree with the entire premise here. First, sound is subjective, but mostly digital audio is not defacto better than analog, it's just different. Like most every comparison between two things, there are pros and cons to each. But the fact that LPs still exist, sold to so-called "audiophiles," I think speaks to the unique qualities of analog audio.

Personally, would I rather listen to an AAD CD of Beethoven's 9th ripped as a lossless, less compressed ALAC than a severely compressed digitally recorded & mastered 256kbps AAC from iTunes. Listening to either via lightning-equipped earbuds or headphones isn't going to improve the sound of either though. The recording is the recording. A good headset can faithfully reproduce the recording, bad ones betray it. But again, that is the quality of the headphones, not the connector.

Maybe Apple will make the case for why the headphone jack needed to be removed -- maybe as a precursor to a bendable OLED phone as we saw posted here yesterday. But let's not kid ourselves that the lightning jack is going to make bad audio sound great because it's digital.

Also, if Apple takes this direction a proprietary audio input is unacceptable. Apple will need to not only freely license the lightning port with very open terms of use for audio, but also promote it as the new standard. To this effect Apple might even donate the technology to a trade organization similar to the USB Implementers Forum or HDMI Licensing to oversee implementation and future research.

This parallels my experience using my analog hearing aids my entire life. Analog HAs have had the richest bass and natural sounds I've been used to until I had to upgrade to a digital hearing aid ( they've been around for years ) around 2014. Having a digital hearing aid took getting used to and did'nt sound exactly the same. Sadly, the analog hearing aids are being phased out which was disturbing because they provided the best bass.

One of the reasons the digital devices were being proliferated is that it gives audiologists complete control over programming certain modes the HAs can go with since the're customizable. The user cannot hack into and program the device but must go to the audiologist for such changes. Right now, my hearing aid has a special mode that prevents the compression when listening to headphones and it was so much better. The last time it happened was when certain instruments got suppressed sound in certain parts of the song and it bothered me.

I still use the 3.5 jack when I listen with my Sennheiser PX-200 and Grado. They're classics unlike the Beats cans.

My biggest concern is how much battery juice will the lightining headphones cause if Apple goes with that direction.
 
My view...

Is getting rid of the 3.5mm jack the right thing todo? Yes, it's served us well, but it's a dinosaur in the modern era - we've reached the stage where 3.5mm wide and 20mm long for a single-purpose connector is just too much space to take up in modern mobile phones.

Are 'Lightning' headphones the right choice? No, clearly a universal standard would be better for consumers, USB-C would seem the obvious one. Buying 'Lightning' headphones is never going to broadly appeal to consumers, you wouldn't even be able to use them with your MacBook - let alone any non-Apple product.

My prediction is that Lightning headphones will remain niche for serious Apple ecosystem users, and in reality this move will ultimately drive development of smaller, lighter and higher-quality in-line DACs (with a Lightning or USB-C 'Y' connector built in) which will allow audio-conscious people to continue to use non-powered analog headphones for the foreseeable future. People who don't care will just use the Lightning ear-pods Apple supply with the phone, so no real impact.

True audiophiles are never going to buy in to a system where it only works with one device - if I spend $800 on headphones, I would want to be able to plug them into my reference DAC/amplifier at home as well as my mobile device. I currently use a pair of B&O BeoPlay H8 and the Bluetooth quality is more than acceptable for compressed music, and the best feature - when they run low on battery, or I need to listen on another device, you can plug 3.5mm jack in to them and carry on. I won't be switching.
 
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My view...

Is getting rid of the 3.5mm jack the right thing todo? Yes, it's served us well, but it's a dinosaur in the modern era - we've reached the stage where 3.5mm wide and 20mm long for a single-purpose connector is just too much space to take up in modern mobile phones.

Are 'Lightning' headphones the right choice? No, clearly a universal standard would be better for consumers, USB-C would seem the obvious one. Buying 'Lightning' headphones is never going to broadly appeal to consumers, you wouldn't even be able to use them with your MacBook - let alone any non-Apple product.

My prediction is that Lightning headphones will remain niche for serious Apple ecosystem users, and in reality this move will ultimately drive development of smaller, lighter and higher-quality in-line DACs (with a Lightning or USB-C 'Y' connector built in) which will allow audio-conscious people to continue to use non-powered analog headphones for the foreseeable future. People who don't care will just use the Lightning ear-pods Apple supply with the phone, so no real impact.

True audiophiles are never going to buy in to a system where it only works with one device - if I spend $800 on headphones, I would want to be able to plug them into my reference DAC/amplifier at home as well as my mobile device. I currently use a pair of B&O BeoPlay H8 and the Bluetooth quality is more than acceptable for compressed music, and the best feature - when they run low on battery, or I need to listen on another device, you can plug 3.5mm jack in to them and carry on. I won't be switching.
If you have 800$ cans you have a detachable cable... heck my 100 bucks IEM have it... and i will change cable to use the lighing one without the drama ;)
 
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The world is going to look funny with folks walking around with full-sized headphone "cans" on.

How many will walk right out in front of traffic that way?

Just as some states make it illegal to drive with headphones on (I actually got ticketed once), I wouldn't be surprised to see city ordinances that prohibit walking with headphones that "cover the ear" and prevent hearing ambient sounds nearby...
 
This parallels my experience using my analog hearing aids my entire life. Analog HAs have had the richest bass and natural sounds I've been used to until I had to upgrade to a digital hearing aid ( they've been around for years ) around 2014. Having a digital hearing aid took getting used to and did'nt sound exactly the same. Sadly, the analog hearing aids are being phased out which was disturbing because they provided the best bass.

One of the reasons the digital devices were being proliferated is that it gives audiologists complete control over programming certain modes the HAs can go with since the're customizable. The user cannot hack into and program the device but must go to the audiologist for such changes. Right now, my hearing aid has a special mode that prevents the compression when listening to headphones and it was so much better. The last time it happened was when certain instruments got suppressed sound in certain parts of the song and it bothered me.

I still use the 3.5 jack when I listen with my Sennheiser PX-200 and Grado. They're classics unlike the Beats cans.

My biggest concern is how much battery juice will the lightining headphones cause if Apple goes with that direction.

I'm not in the slightest making light of your need for hearing aids, but surely you can see the irony of someone that needs hearing aids commenting on sound quality?
 
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I'm sorry, but I couldn't finish reading the primary article due to the fact it started making NONSENSE "Audiophool" claims about how a digital connection (which simply movies the DAC from one device to the other and helps the battery industry out by requiring powered headphones somehow makes "better sound". I don't have the time or energy to explain why 0.01dB differences that DACs typically represent have ZERO effect on sound except in the minds of suggestible people that the snake oil market called "high end audio" typically target.

But suffice to say, the only other aspect that can cause issues with headphones is when your op-amp is underpowered for a given set of headphones (typically lower sensitivity models that drive the headphone amp in the phone into distortion when asked to play too loudly). Thus, poor headphone designs with low efficiency could include their own high-powered headphone amplifier to ensure sufficient clean power, but this will in turn require more battery power. The DACs themselves these days haven nothing to do with it since good DAC designs became affordable over 20 years ago. Most people can't hear 1dB differences reliably, let alone 0.01dB that are 100 times quieter.

But every opportunity to sell overpriced CRAP to GULLIBLE IGNORANT PEOPLE represents $$$$$$$$$$. Go Apple. You don't even offer lossless CD quality level audio tracks on your iTunes store and you want to talk about headphone quality by getting rid of the 3.5mm audio jack.... Unbelievable. I think it's more like they needed a spot for a stereo speaker in the phone and the ability to make something that is already too thin even thinner and get some licensing fees over that lightning port to boot. There is no other reason.
 
Indeed - this happens all the time with the 3.5mm connector. always getting snapped off and stuck in the phone.

:) To be fair, the Lightning connector has some obvious durability disadvantages: Its thickness is just 1.5mm at its thinnest point, while the 3.5mm connector measures 3.5mm, surprisingly. Also, the 3.5mm connector can rotate, enabling it to divert some types of straining that the Lightning connector will have to resist. So I can understand the concern. The Lightning connector may nevertheless be durable enough, there are other aspects influencing this, after all.
 
I actually made a conscious decision to not buy wired headphones anymore. Wireless is far too convenient for me in most cases and the sound quality if fine for me. Though I would be interested in hearing a really good pair of digital headphones via lightning.
 
If the iPhone DAC/amp is so in need of help then improve it and make every headphone better. Don't just shuffle it into the cable and call it "audiophile."

Exactly, if this is a real problem to solve, besides the options we're all discussing in threads like this, the very best one would be to put the better quality DAC and AMP INSIDE the iPhone. It has to have both anyway, so that it can work as a phone.

Since our ears can only hear analog (something this article seems to neglect to really pin down with recurring spin of "all digital"), the conversion happening INSIDE vs. about 3 inches away is likely negligible in terms of yielding any better quality (by preserving the digital signal further down the pipe). That can make sense when the distance is measured in feet or meters, not a few inches.

What this is doing is creating redundancy. iPhones still must ship with a DAC & AMP and now there will be another DAC & AMP in the cable or headphones OUTSIDE the iPhone too. And we are expected to pay for that redundancy... and roll with the adapters necessary to make the same headphones work with everything else, including Apple's own Macs. Even this same biased "tow the company line" article, references how powering these better external DACs & AMPs with the iPhone battery will burn the battery more quickly. Is that what we want? "Thinner" with faster battery burn.. and an adapter(s) in tow so we can use the same headphones with anything else?

Why? What is in this for us consumers? This very slanted/biased article tries it's best to imply the answer is better quality audio by making it seem like that is attained by jettisoning 3.5mm and using Lightning. But the reality is that the better quality is driven by the better DAC & AMP in high-priced headphones, which, if desired by audiophiles, already exists and can be used in exactly the way described here.

End result: if we could hear how much better it will sound in our own headphones, and it was obviously better, this switch away from 3.5mm would be more palatable. But options like Lightning-terminated and Bluetooth wireless headphones have been out a long time, getting relatively little press or consumer adoption because we can't obviously hear any or much difference. Some of us argue that Apple must lead us... must force this change upon us (because, apparently, we are too ignorant to be able to clearly hear the superior new alternative so we could naturally shift to something better). But I think one only hears the difference when better DACs & AMPs are involved, not because of which port is used. Put the same quality DAC & AMP INSIDE an iPhone and the most ubiquitous audio jack in the world would send audio to our ears that sounds just as good.

I continue to believe this is just Apple doing two things:
  • "thinner" is colliding with physical limits but still getting Apple priority. So the way to "thinner" is now kicking utility OUT of devices. This year it is 3.5mm. How long until it's the camera (already protruding) and/or battery? If one wants to spin the "antiquated" argument, both camera and battery are OLDER technologies than 3.5mm.
  • Apple is playing the Sony game again- push proprietary on consumers to make lucrative profits selling adapters, new headphones and licensing B2B deals. If Apple really believes we need this change because it's better for us, the best option would have been to put the superior DAC INSIDE an iPhone. Then let consumer hook up via the same 3 options already available in iPhones today. Instead, there's a LOT of profit in trying to get millions to tens of millions married to a proprietary connector.
The first one is no surprise- doesn't thinner trump all with Apple? The second has obvious cash grab implications but it also sets up it's own impending collision with the first. Tip your current iPhone up and look at the size of the Lightning jack vs. the "thinness" of the phone you have now. How long until Lightning "as is" is too thick to remain in use?
 
Yep. This makes perfect sense for the majority of users, right?

Oh wait. Nearly everyone listens at 256kbps or less, from Apple Music streaming, iTunes MP3s or old CD rips.

The convenience lost ≠ the audio quality gained, for average joe.

True. And most of them uses Beats which can't be worst. They sound horrible but most don't even note.

Also what's about battery's life?
 
I've no problem adapting the future, it is a natural human thing. That being said, not a fan of moving to proprietary technology - Apple should either standardize Lightning to all manufacturers or move to USB-C altogether.
 
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