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I think most people understand, including myself as an Electrical Engineer who specializes in both analog and digital signal processing, that sound propagates through moving air driven by a transducer and received by a person's eardrum, and that is an analog process.

Perhaps you can point to what I said that merits your response? That said, there are a lot of benefits, of a digital interface, particularly one that is powered (like USB C or Lightning), for creating superior audio products that Apple and other companies might choose to create someday.

"The 100+ year old analog past"

The way I read that was "analog audio is a historical artifact" when in reality, it is an unavoidable step on the way to producing actual sound. And the 3.5mm connector isn't 100 years old; it was invented in the late 1970s or early 1980s with the advent of portable sound gear. And the 4-pin 3.5mm connector wasn't invented until about 1993.

So it's only a 22-year-old connector that serves its purpose well and has no alternatives that don't have reliability problems (the Lightning plug and 2.5mm plug because of fragility, Bluetooth because of requiring batteries that can run down at an inopportune moment).
 
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Now that would be a brave move to advance the iPhone but it would mean Apple losing their lucrative business from the MFi Lightning fees they charge to accessory manufacturers.

They need massive iPhone 7 sales, meaning hard numbers on paper, or Wall Street will pummel Apple like it hasn't been pummeled since the 90's. Wall Street won't care about licensing fees, accessories, or even profit. They want to see a hockey stick curve for the next iPhone, and Apple is getting ready to deliver. Zero ports, zero wires will be the new "killer feature" pushing current phone owners back into the Apple Store. Without a "wow" reason to get a new iPhone, there's no reason those of us with i6/s/+ won't just keep using our current devices for many years.

Totally wireless and waterproof is about the only thing that will interest me in iPhone 7. Thicker, thinner, more or less battery life, more or less bezel, no home button, two home buttons, whatever buttons whatever processor are all just meh to me now.

Totally wireless and waterproof is where it's at.
 
If this turns out to be the case it's the first decision that's made me think I could look at Android phones.

I'm not that drastic, but its a pity they remove features continually. Endgate will become a reality instead of an artificial news frenzy. I did my first "not upgrading this year" and kept my under performing 6 Plus. I may well keep that when 7 comes out. Why should I pay premium prices to get an ear pod that don't use and have to pay $59 probably for an adapter for my wired headphones????
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Quit complaining and just buy a new car!! What are you some kind of Android sympathiser?!
No, you quit complaining. Your an Apple sympathiser who doesn't want discussion unless its about God Apple.
[doublepost=1452373535][/doublepost]I'll need to buy an insanely expensive adapter to use my 3.5mm headphones. Or I could buy an insanely expensive set of lightning headphones and an adapter for my Mac and work PC, and retire my insanely expensive 3.5mm headphones.

Good one. A sensible way would be to make lightning audio capable as well, but thats too sensible and doesnt have a revenue stream attached
 
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This is why Apple stock it's tanking. Tim cook doesn't know what he's doing

No, it is one of the reasons Apple stock is not performing. This is the second time during Tim Cook's regime that the stock almost "tanked." The first was in 2012 or 2013. Apple stock was at $700 a share and fell to about $400 a share. This is a minor bump compared to that one. No, I have to disagree that Tim Cook does not know what he doing. He just does not care about his customers and is too arrogant to admit it. Apple thinks by taking the audio jack away from the iPhone that is going to cure a few worries such as space and ease of making it waterproof. A benefit would be audio clarity. This is all bull. The space saved is minimal and waterproofing has been done by Samsung who is still using the audio jack. Audio clarity is a joke... All the music on the iPhone and iTunes is compressed so we can safely add it to our audio libraries. So what clarity are we trying to improve on. Nothing... This is all marketing bull. Apple wants to sell more lightning based crap and incorporate it's Beats family into the mix. Nothing more than that. People wake up... Tim Cook is planning another way to steal your money. If iPhone 7 comes out without that audio jack, I would boycott the iPhone 7. I am getting tired of Apple's crap and I am annoyed with many of our loyal MacRumor readers for supporting Apple's plan. When the Piped Piper plays his music, how many of you listen.
 
They need massive iPhone 7 sales, meaning hard numbers on paper, or Wall Street will pummel Apple like it hasn't been pummeled since the 90's. Wall Street won't care about licensing fees, accessories, or even profit. They want to see a hockey stick curve for the next iPhone, and Apple is getting ready to deliver. Zero ports, zero wires will be the new "killer feature" pushing current phone owners back into the Apple Store. Without a "wow" reason to get a new iPhone, there's no reason those of us with i6/s/+ won't just keep using our current devices for many years.

Totally wireless and waterproof is about the only thing that will interest me in iPhone 7. Thicker, thinner, more or less battery life, more or less bezel, no home button, two home buttons, whatever buttons whatever processor are all just meh to me now.

Totally wireless and waterproof is where it's at.
Fair enough for you. Apple's stock is already plummeting. Not due to any actual bad news, but a concern that they cannot maintain the roll of the iPhone, which is their one egg in the basket. I'd suggest the masses would not be happy with no audio port if they use headphones, and are required to pay stupid prices for an adapter.
 
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Bluetooth is universal. Lightning connection isn't.
I still don't see the relevence. The issue is getting rid of a universal standard.

I'd also bet my next upgrade that they aren't going to throw us a free set of bluetooth buds. Most decent pairs of similar products sell for $100+. No way in hell Apple is just including that. At BEST they will include an adapter, which I am also pretty doubtful of.
 
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No, it is one of the reasons Apple stock is not performing. This is the second time during Tim Cook's regime that the stock almost "tanked." The first was in 2012 or 2013. Apple stock was at $700 a share and fell to about $400 a share. This is a minor bump compared to that one. No, I have to disagree that Tim Cook does not know what he doing. He just does not care about his customers and is too arrogant to admit it. Apple thinks by taking the audio jack away from the iPhone that is going to cure a few worries such as space and ease of making it waterproof. A benefit would be audio clarity. This is all bull. The space saved is minimal and waterproofing has been done by Samsung who is still using the audio jack. Audio clarity is a joke... All the music on the iPhone and iTunes is compressed so we can safely add it to our audio libraries. So what clarity are we trying to improve on. Nothing... This is all marketing bull. Apple wants to sell more lightning based crap and incorporate it's Beats family into the mix. Nothing more than that. People wake up... Tim Cook is planning another way to steal your money. If iPhone 7 comes out without that audio jack, I would boycott the iPhone 7. I am getting tired of Apple's crap and I am annoyed with many of our loyal MacRumor readers for supporting Apple's plan. When the Piped Piper plays his music, how many of you listen.
Fully agree. We all used to complain how many stupid features Samsung added. Now, we have an issue with removing features for the sake of "new and improved" iOS 10 is to me, the only thing I am waiting for, and its free. The masses will speak. I'd love to know the 5S sales, 6 sales, 6S sales. The latter I am sure must be low
 
I hope Microsoft gets their act together soon.

So the headpphone jack is going the way of the dodo? Really? A year ago most of you Nostradamus wannabees did not give a sn LOL right back at you.

MS has quite a few awesome things with windows phone 10 and windows 10 that nobody else really offers. For starters, devs need really only make one app and then scale it to the other platform. Apparently you can also set up your phone/pc to effectively mirror one another. I have been trying to pay close attention because no other platform offers anything even remotely close to this. We always talk about the "ecosystem", and MS has the neatest vision, IMO. We just need APPS.

I also agree with your assesment of the 3.5mm jack. Until Apple (reportedly) decided their next phone will be without one I heard almost no mention of it being archaic and needing to be removed. Now, all of the sudden, people are renouncing the jack as the worst part of their phones. It's kind of laughable.
 
MS has quite a few awesome things with windows phone 10 and windows 10 that nobody else really offers. For starters, devs need really only make one app and then scale it to the other platform. Apparently you can also set up your phone/pc to effectively mirror one another. I have been trying to pay close attention because no other platform offers anything even remotely close to this. We always talk about the "ecosystem", and MS has the neatest vision, IMO. We just need APPS.

I also agree with your assesment of the 3.5mm jack. Until Apple (reportedly) decided their next phone will be without one I heard almost no mention of it being archaic and needing to be removed. Now, all of the sudden, people are renouncing the jack as the worst part of their phones. It's kind of laughable.

Sure is. Hmm, They might release an official Apple Adapter Carrierbag.
 
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people are renouncing the jack as the worst part of their phones. It's kind of laughable.

No, this is the worst part of the jack:


There are dozens of these kinds of videos on YouTube. Im really looking forward to the eternal wired future of headphones. Long live the 3.5mm jack. What could be more convenient? Oh that's right, wireless.
 
You will not see a truly lossless version of AptX on Bluetooth. The bandwidth is simply not sufficient. If at all, AptX Lossless will be run in "hybrid" mode where it's only lossless part of the time.

But in any case, Apple is unlikely to use AptX, since it is proprietary and they'd have to pay a licensing fee. They are more likely to continue using AAC on Bluetooth.

This also illustrates that Bluetooth audio products are not quite as standardized as one might think. The only mandatory codec for Bluetooth A2DP is SBC, which even at its "high quality" setting is worse than MP3 at 128kbps. Some headphone makers support AptX which is a bit better, but Apple has never supported that. They use AAC, which in turn is not supported by most non-Apple headphones.
92000/24 with AptX is more than enough for me. Still better than CD'S 44100/16. And better resolution than the current DAC in iPhone. And AptX is able to push it with the bandwidth. The latency would just be higher.
 
No, this is the worst part of the jack:


There are dozens of these kinds of videos on YouTube. Im really looking forward to the eternal wired future of headphones. Long live the 3.5mm jack. What could be more convenient? Oh that's right, wireless.
A braided cable not only solves all of this, you are not even CURRENTLY forced to use any cable if you don't want to. I am not sure I understand your argument. Are you saying you don't like cables therefore we need to remove the option?

Frankly, I don't want to have to make sure yet ANOTHER thing is charged. I am going to go on a run and listen to some music. Ooops. No I am not. Because my headphones aren't charged. I actually returned some bluetooth buds for this reason (and because they weren't staying in my ears when sweating hevily as well as wired buds). All that said I am intrigued by the buds apple is supposedly working on with a carrier case that charges them. 4 hours for my use is plenty, especially if the carrier case allows for 2-3 full charges in between. THroing my buds/case on a charger once or twice a week is doable. Hell, I could even do it at the gym WHILE using them, if all of this is true.

But as far as cables are concerned, Apple has avoided the wireless charging. And most people on here even proclaim it a gimmick. I wonder if Apple every implements it what the general consesus will be. I am guessing a lot of people will immediately take a different stance.
 
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I see lots of resistance here. Not entirely surprising, and I understand people's concerns. But I would urge those who are skeptical to wait and see. If Apple is indeed dropping the audio jack port, the success of that will largely depend on other factors we don't yet know enough about:

- Will the iPhone 7 come with wireless charging? If so, that negates the concern of being able to listen and charge at the same time.

- Are they simply dropping the audio jack port, or replacing it? Technically, if they remove it they can put something else in its place. A 2nd Lightning port? A mini (audio only) Lightning port? Who knows.

The issue at hand is, although the 3.5mm audio jack isn't technologically antiquated, its form factor is. There's *nothing* that dictates an audio port/connector needs to be the length, width, and shape of a 3.5mm jack, other than it's a physical form that has been around for almost 40 years (and it's larger sibling- the 6.5mm- has been around for almost 140!). Let's face it, if the jack isn't going to be addressed by Apple, it's going to be addressed by some other manufacturer like Samsung, LG, etc because we're at that point.
 
I do not like this at all, why remove something that works only to employ a proprietary solution? I would understand if this had undeniable benefits, but so far it seems more of a forced cash-grab from Apple and a way to force you to be on their ecosystem... I hope I am wrong, but I am not liking this.
 
AirPods. The name works so perfectly it's amazing. This has to be one of the greatest names Apple has ever given a product, and here's why:
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1. They have already incorporated the word "Air" in their product lines. Consumers are familiar with the term, and Apple is staying minimal by not adding extra words like "Bluetooth EarPods" or "wireless in ear headphones" (to the main title of the item; of course, they will have a subtitle like this).

2. AirPods represent Apple-made Bluetooth headphones well, as no (or little) cable would be needed, making it seem like the product is floating or lives in the air. Also, it has a closer relationship to thin air than the iPad (Air) or MacBook (Air) does, since it will literally be high in the air during use.

3. EarPods. AirPods. Say it. They sound nearly identical, with subtle differences. They are both three letters, first two of which vowels. Perfect. Especially perfect for marketing.

4. "What are AirPods?" one may ask. "Think about it," another would say. As I mentioned briefly above, "AirPods" clearly sounds like it could be the name of Bluetooth headphones. Even if a consumer didn't realize that when they saw the name, once they did find out what it was, they would never forget it, as the word "Air" would ring a bell when they heard it again.
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But this name isn't great because of each idea acting individually; its that fact that they are all incorporated into the name "AirPods" that makes it so perfect. And every person who is somewhat familiar with Apple products will pick up on these ideas, whether knowingly or unknowingly/subconsciously. Whether "AirPods" was an obvious name choice or one that required much thinking at Apple, it may be (assuming it is used) one of the greatest Apple product names in their history.

CBW
 
Frankly, I don't want to have to make sure yet ANOTHER thing is charged. I am going to go on a run and listen to some music. Ooops. No I am not. Because my headphones aren't charged.

Too bad you didn't buy a set of wireless headphones that come with an optional analogue port for that possibility. But let's hope you remembered to charge your iPhone or none of that will matter.

As for having to worry about making sure yet another device is charged, it's a good thing you can just plug in your lightning headphones, or your 3.5mm headphones into an adaptor and not have to worry about anything but cable management.
 
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There was one USB floppy drive capable with the iMac when Apple dropped the internal one. And after the customer paid $1299, they were supposed to for over another $150 for an external floppy drive, which many still needed. And what Apple PowerBook exactly had built in floppy drive after the iMac came out?

IIRC, there were three: Wallstreet, Lombard, and Pismo. I can't remember if the floppy drives were optional or not. It's possible that they might have been third-party. I forget. The point is that there were internal floppy drive options, which was critical for a mobile device, and irrelevant for a desktop.


And yes USB thumb drives were far superior to floppies but they were also incredibly expensive. More importantly, USB was a new standard, that even if someone did shell out the money for a flash drive, they weren't likely to have anywhere they could use it. I have to ask, were you there? Because I was. And it was nothing like the paradise you describe.

But USB was still a standard. Lightning isn't.


You really need a history lesson. When Firewire came out there were no products for it.

I never said that there were.


And what there were were incredibly expensive, and buggy as it took time for drivers to be fixed. Moreover, people weren't about to throw out thousands of dollars of perfectly good SCSI peripherals that worked just as well as Firewire, at the time, so Firewire to SCSI adapters appeared, and were hard to get they were in such demand.

A key difference here is that SCSI was a big, heavy cable that was a pain in the backside to use in a mobile device. FireWire was a huge improvement, albeit with some growing pains. There was no question whatsoever that FireWire was a better solution. The rest was a matter of timing. That's not the case here.



Of course it is. In the end, wireless is absolutely superior to wired, all thing being equal.

Not quite true. Wireless means carrying either spare batteries or an additional charger with you whenever you travel. That's a nonzero penalty when you're trying to fit your stuff into a suitcase and stay below airline weight limitations.

It also isn't possible to eliminate the latency inherent in wireless transmission of audio. They still haven't reduced it below what audio engineers consider to be the threshold of perception, and I have no reason to believe that they will do so any time soon.


1) You're stating this like a fact, without citing your evidence. but I'll bet it's just your opinion based on some anecdotal experiences. My experience has been vastly different. I've never had a Lightning connector break and I must plug and unplug my iPhone over a dozen times a day. On the other hand, I've had headphone jacks go bad routinely, cables go bad, and sometimes even a plug itself. As long as wires are in the mix, there will always be problems like this.

My evidence is Amazon reviews. Go look at reviews for third-party Lightning cables and connectors (including the MFI-certified ones) some time. It is not a robust connector. One good tug in the right direction can break it.

I used to have a lot of headphone jacks go bad twenty years ago. I haven't seen one fail since the mid-1990s. They've improved them a lot since then.


3) My Bluetooth headphones run for 8 hours on a single charge. Some run for up to 20. And that's only going to improve over time. $20 BT Adapters will do just fine, no need to replace your receiver. THat's just spreading FUD and you know it.

By "receiver", I was referring to those $20 Bluetooth adapters. They have to have electrical power, generally speaking, unless you buy one with batteries and keep unplugging it to charge it every day, in which case there's no advantage over wired connections.
 
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MS has quite a few awesome things with windows phone 10 and windows 10 that nobody else really offers. For starters, devs need really only make one app and then scale it to the other platform. Apparently you can also set up your phone/pc to effectively mirror one another. I have been trying to pay close attention because no other platform offers anything even remotely close to this. We always talk about the "ecosystem", and MS has the neatest vision, IMO. We just need APPS.

They have some good ideas indeed, but they really need to work on the execution of those ideas. I was test driving a Lumia 950 XL + the display dock for a couple of weeks thanks to a Microsoft campaign over here, and the end result was a major disappointment. I knew about the app gap already as I've had various Lumias over the years, but with the 950 XL even the things that were formerly strong points of those phones weren't working as well as they used to. Granted, it was the first Lumia I've ever encountered where Bluetooth actually worked like it should. But still, making a 700€ phone that feels like a 300€ phone that doesn't even run all of the apps you'd need isn't exactly the recipe for success. When I first saw the specs of the 950 series on paper it looked like I could actually want a Windows Phone once again, but that feeling disappeared quickly after getting my hands on one.

What comes to the actual topic, I'm somewhat on the fence on this. I do have and use Bluetooth headphones, but there are lots of occasions where the possibility of connecting to a pair or wired headphones or speakers is necessary, and unless the undoubtedly outrageously expensive adapter fits into my wallet (it won't), I'd be out of luck in those situations. I've already switched to Android for my daily driver for now, but a waterproof iPhone (especially if coupled with wireless charging) has the potential to bring me back to the iOS fold. I'm just not convinced it'll happen if my connectivity options take an unnecessary hit as lots of Android phones have demonstrated that it's perfectly possible to waterproof a phone and retain the 3.5mm jack. If they remove the 3.5mm jack just to make the phones even thinner, then I think I'll be happy to stay with Android where I'm not at the mercy of one single thinness-obsessed design team.
 
Like adopting and making the usb-c, Apple forced manufactures to come with really nice things..and almost just 1 year have passed. So with iphone 7 removing and keeping the iphone 6s and maybe iphone 6c on the market for those who still need the jack is the way to go and force bose or beats or heavy headphones manufactures to make a really solid products adopting bluetooth 4.1, and in 2 years nobody will miss the 3.5 jack
 
Like adopting and making the usb-c, Apple forced manufactures to come with really nice things..and almost just 1 year have passed. So with iphone 7 removing and keeping the iphone 6s and maybe iphone 6c on the market for those who still need the jack is the way to go and force bose or beats or heavy headphones manufactures to make a really solid products adopting bluetooth 4.1, and in 2 years nobody will miss the 3.5 jack

I don't see all those expensive headsets with 3.5mm jack dying in 2 years, nor I don't see parties adapting to the needs of those without the universal audio jack. If a 2-second cable swap cannot switch your phone as the audio source, you're not playing the song you want but the next guy/gal with a different phone gets the chance instead. "Sorry, couldn't we just connect the cord to a computer with which I could pair my phone using Bluetooth" isn't going to fly.
 
I really don't understand why anyone would need a water proof phone. Are people trying to swim with it? All you need is water resistance, and pretty much all phones are water resistant. So Apple is adding a useless feature by removing a useful audio jack? Makes sense.
 
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I'm not that drastic, but its a pity they remove features continually.

Could you name like maybe a half dozen of the other features they're "removing continually"??

I've read some pretty outlandish claims on the internet before, but depending on your reply- this one may take the cake!! :0)
 
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