iPhone 8 / 8 Plus [Pipeline Tim Cook] is a Joke...

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by booksbooks, Oct 14, 2017.

  1. booksbooks macrumors 6502a

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    Aug 28, 2013
    #1
    Coming from a long-time iPhone user, and current iPhone 6 Plus user who has been using the 6 Plus since it launched, iPhone 8 / 8 Plus is ridiculous. I'll focus on the 8 Plus.

    Yes, it's faster than previous generations and has a better camera, all good things. And we all expect that. Other than that, it's a joke because this is what a company with billions and billions of dollars and thousands of engineers pump out. I know the iPhone X is coming, but the jury is out on that.

    For the first time today, I demo'd an iPhone 8 Plus. I had my 6 Plus next to it, comparing them both in terms of App launching speeds, and the way each device looks and feels, etc.

    The iPhone 8 Plus is a TANK compared to the 6 Plus.

    iPhone 6 Plus:
    172 grams
    7.1 mm thick


    iPhone 8 Plus:
    202 grams
    7.5 mm thick


    The difference in thickness and weight makes a difference holding and handling the devices. The 6 Plus feels light as a feather comparatively: much better in the hand.

    Overall, the design of the 8 Plus is exactly the same as the 6 Plus other than the camera and a few other minor things. Is there any compelling reason to upgrade for a 6 Plus owner like me? Not much.

    • I get Apple Pay with my 6 Plus.
    • The same size screen as the 8 Plus.
    • Still fairly capable processing power.
    • TouchID, etc., etc.

    I was thinking that Apple just did the iPhone 8 as a sort of "older" model with some nice spec bumps for people to buy as a cheaper option than the X. But in the end, they really are marketing the 8 as a "new, redesigned phone" that people should run out to buy. For instance, they've kept the 7 around, and other older phones, so these latter are the "old" phones now, not the 8 / 8 Plus. And launched this one first before the X.

    For a company like Apple to spend a bunch of time and money and marketing focus and effort on a phone that effectively is the same design as a several year old iPhone is absurd.

    It's like Tim Cook is afraid to retool machines. Like they just can't innovate past their balance sheet. We have all of these "old" products laying around still selling, like the several iPhones still selling or the MacBook Air with 20th Century screen resolution. The iPhone 8 / 8 Plus is an expression of the new Apple. In with the old, marry it with what we call the "new".

    Oh those bezels Apple, those massive bezels. The iPhone 8 / 8 Plus has no reason to live. You put yourself out there and made the iPhone X. If that's what you believe in, then that should be the only new phone we're looking at and the direction you want consumers to go.

    Now, we have phones you're peddling like the 8 Plus that have TouchID, something the X doesn't have.

    It's getting more and more fragmented in Cupertino.
     
  2. OneMike macrumors 603

    OneMike

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    Oct 19, 2005
    #2
    The A10 and A11 are great. The apps just don’t exist yet to take real advantage of them.
     
  3. wlossw macrumors 65816

    wlossw

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Location:
    Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    #3
    If they had put a decent amount of
    Ram in the 6 plus, no one would have needed to upgrade since.
     
  4. BenTrovato macrumors 68030

    BenTrovato

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Location:
    Canada
    #4
    6 and 6 Plus has been a joke since launch. Anyone who used the 6 and upgraded to the 6s or 7 gets it. The processor in the 8 is an absolute beast. You can complain that the 8 looks the the same as the 6 and you would be right but performance is night and day.
     
  5. booksbooks thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Aug 28, 2013
    #5
    Performance is certainly better on the 8. However, the 6 Plus is very capable. Watching Netflix, YouTube, surfing the Web... this is all pretty much on par.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 14, 2017 ---
    I'm interested to hear from anyone who has compared the feel of the 6 Plus to the 8 Plus, because of how much heavier and thicker the 8 Plus is. This is one major reason why I will never buy the 8 Plus due to its heaviness. Of note, the iPhone X is effectively the same weight as the 6 Plus.
     
  6. staggerlee41 macrumors 6502a

    staggerlee41

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2017
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    #6
    Your opinion of the 6 vs 8+ is as valid as mine or anyone else. If it works for you that's all that should matter. I'm just as happy with my 8+ as you seem to be with your 6, that's great for me.

    Producing one model phone, putting everything out there with the X would be a foolish move in my opinion because that pretty much puts all eggs in one very expensive basket. That would limit their sales opportunity. By offering the 6s/7/8 and SE they diversify their offerings and are able to reach more consumers with nearly every financial status. Since the design is a very slight variation, production costs should allow greater profit, even with the upgraded hardware included in the 8's. Plenty have purchased 8's, some have gone for the 7's, some are going the 6s route and it appears many are holding out for the X. From Apple's perspective, there's an iPhone for everyone. How is that a bad thing? Regarding your opinion of Tim Cook, calling him "a joke" is a bit harsh at the very least. Shareholders seem to appreciate what he's doing.

    I see so many people who want or DEMAND a new design every year and I just don't understand it? Nearly every company that produces anything rarely if ever changes that drastically from year to year. There's a good reason for that, a drastic change impacts their bottom dollar.

    Just my unprofessional opinion.
     
  7. rgarjr macrumors 603

    rgarjr

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    Apr 2, 2009
    Location:
    Southern California
    #7
    That little RAM was planned obsolescence.
     
  8. joeblow7777 macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    #8
    The 8 Plus is a tank compared to the 6 Plus?

    LOL. Let’s not forget that the 6 Plus had bending issues because it was too thin and light.

    Coming from a regular sized 6 to an 8 Plus just three days ago, I’m already accustomed to the extra size/weight. Excellent upgrade.
     
  9. rgarjr, Oct 14, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017

    rgarjr macrumors 603

    rgarjr

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Location:
    Southern California
    #9
    Same can be said with the iPads with the same design since the iPad Air release in 2013.
     
  10. booksbooks thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    #10
    Thanks for the comments.

    • I never stated that I wanted a new design every year. What we have here is what is now an old design that continues to be used. The problem with it is how big the bezels are, and how technology and smartphone design has evolved over the years to significantly reduce the bezel size, thereby increasing screen-to-body ratio. This is an objective issue. The iPhone 8 / 8 Plus is thus an old design that has too high a screen-to-body ratio. It's just like looking at an old iPad versus a new one with much smaller bezels. And then we have the added weight of the iPhone 8 / 8 Plus and thickness, and it's like going back in time even more.
    • Producing one model phone and leaving maybe one or two old iPhones is better, because it simplifies the product line, mitigates fragmentation, move the world in the direction you believe in, and fosters economies of scale so you can sell at the same or similar prices as before. Fragmentation is the result of keeping so much old stuff around, because these devices don't have the same key technologies. For instance, now we have TouchID, FaceID, a notch, a W1 chip for Bluetooth, Bluetooth 5 for longer range connections to the Apple Watch, etc. etc.... developers have to then contend with this stuff, and Apps end up not supporting certain things on certain phones, thereby leaving the consumer in a state of fragmentation.
     
  11. Bethanie21 macrumors regular

    Bethanie21

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2015
    Location:
    Bristol, U.K.
    #11
    So what if the design is the same? I’d rather have something tried and tested than a whole new design for the sake of it. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

    The compelling reason to upgrade to a 8 from a 6 must be that your 6 must run so slowly on iOS 11 (don’t beat around the bush here, my old 6S turned sluggish so I can’t imagine what the experience is like on iOS 11 on a 6).

    Finally, if you don’t like it, you don’t have to buy it. Go and buy an X, or whatever you think does look innovative. Stop slagging off something that you don’t even own or use (I’m talking real world, every day - you playing with a demo 8/8+ is nothing).
     
  12. Tom G. macrumors 68020

    Tom G.

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    Jun 16, 2009
    Location:
    Champaign/Urbana Illinois
    #12
    A good part of the extra thickness and weight on the 8+ is battery. People want bigger batteries, but not the extra size needed for it.

    Y'all can't please all the people all the time.
     
  13. staggerlee41 macrumors 6502a

    staggerlee41

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2017
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    #13
    Thanks for your rebuttal.

    On your first point, an estimated 5.5 million people felt compelled to upgrade to iPhone 8 with an old design and large bezels, according to this Forbes article:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckj...the-x-lurking-in-the-background/#7538914bcebb

    While I don't disagree that I'd like to see the bezels have been smaller, I can tell you that the 8+ performance wise, is better than any other iPhone I've used before it. Camera, battery life, processors, stereo speakers were compelling to me. My opinion and nothing more or less. If the 8 series doesn't move you to purchase, then stick with your 6 Plus. That's a win for you and a win for Apple.

    Now, moving on to point 2, you do raise a good point about fragmentation and impact of costs, but keep in mind your situation. You have a 6Plus and aren't feeling compelled to move from it, right? If Apple made another "courageous" move and stopped support due on devices older than 1 or 2 years, you'd be FORCED to either upgrade to a new Phone or search for greener pastures. One thing Apple does very well is keeping consumers within their ecosystem. Losing them to a competitor comes with a cost as well. Apple knows this and has a pretty good handle on what the proper balance needs to be in order for them to push profits.

    Personal note: I converted from Android to Apple years ago with the 4s because after 2 years I had a phone that was basically useless. Hardware was dated, performance was horrible and new updates to Android weren't an option. I should note that I'm not sure it's still that way at this time and from what I know, the Android experience has improved. My comments aren't meant to be anti Android by any stretch of the means. My hope is that readers do not interpret this as such.

    Then let's talk Apps. Apple products ship with native Apps. Technically, you could not install a single app on your device from the app store, and use your phone with native apps alone. But what fun is that? If you want to make apps as a source of revenue for iOS then you play by Apple's rules. Period. Those developers are in business because of Apple, not the other way around. Though both benefit greatly from one another and certainly enhance the experience of using iPhone.

    Last point to make once again, this comes down to profitability. Apple is certainly no slouch at at making profits. They are after all, the worlds most valuable brand 5 years running. Tim is a human. Humans are not perfect, but surely he and the Apple team must be doing something right.
     
  14. JohnApples macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2014
    #14
    The 8+ actually has a smaller battery than the 7+, 6s+, and 6+.
     
  15. bambooshots macrumors 65816

    bambooshots

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    #15
    You say it feels like a tank like it's a bad thing.

    Many people, here included, think the heft and thickness gives it a certain premium feel to it.

    Like closing the doors of a Chevy Cruze vs. a Mercedes-Benz C-Class. One sounds tinny, the other is like closing a bank vault.
     
  16. Ipadfever macrumors 6502a

    Ipadfever

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    #16
    I kind of thought along the same lines as you OP but after seeing the X I am glad Apple didn’t redesign the 8! The weight and thickness becomes irrelevant after extended use.
     
  17. booksbooks thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    #17
    The iPhone 8 Plus battery is smaller than the iPhone 6 Plus's. Therefore, the battery is not bigger in the 8+.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 14, 2017 ---
    I'm buying the iPhone X. So yes I do have a reason to upgrade, just not to the iPhone 8 Plus. Having said that, I have some serious concerns about the iPhone X, which really doesn't need to be repeated on this forum.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 14, 2017 ---
    Precisely the OPPOSITE is my point. I can't speak for every single person, but I've done usability studies on this very stuff in terms of increased weight and thickness of mobile devices and how much extra torque is required at specific joints.
     
  18. nilk, Oct 14, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017

    nilk macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    #18
    Regarding weight, you missed the jump from 6 -> 6S which was the biggest increase (I believe 3D Touch increased the weight). I had the non-plus model, and the increased weight was the only complaint I had with the 6S coming from the 6, and the weight was also imbalanced (one side felt heavier than the other, IIRC the bottom felt heavier).

    Note that the 7 lost a tiny bit of weight, but then the 8 was the heaviest thus far, but only slightly heavier than the 6S.

    I'll take any iPhone Apple currently sells over the 6, though (including the SE, but not including the X); my experience was that the 6 performed terribly since it's launch, and I'm not hearing good things about it handling iOS 11.

    Personally, I was not asking for significant design changes. I don't care if Apple kept the outward design essentially the same (with non-visible hardware improvements like Qi charging being welcome of course, even if it means weight increase). In fact, I wish they'd do a hardware refresh of the SE, keeping it's classic design with all the old cases and accessories continuing to work (though would like to see waterproofing even if it means no headphone jack).

    Many people begged for a new design and now we have the abomination that is the iPhone X. Some people or ok with it, but I am not one of them, and won't be buying the X. What I wanted Apple to be doing is improving iOS. Not releasing experimental devices that didn't have enough time to cook.
     
  19. iSayBoourns Suspended

    iSayBoourns

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2017
    #19
    The thickness comes from adding wireless charging. And the thickness before that came from adding Gen 2 Taptic Engine and dual lens. And the thickness before that was from 3D Touch + smaller Gen 1 Taptic Engine.

    That is how the iPhone got progressively thicker since the thinnest model 6/6+.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 14, 2017 ---
    To the OP, the design can’t be “that” old if it’s still used in a lot of smartphones still. The smaller Google Pixel 2 has the same large chin and forehead, and was the last smartphone of 2017 to be announced. And just like the Pixel XL 2, Apple has the X as the next evolution in current “less bezel” smartphone design that has been all the rage this year and will continue to moveing forward.
     
  20. booksbooks thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Aug 28, 2013
    #20
    The design is without question old. Bezels are out. LG and Samsung lead in design of smartphones next to Apple. The transition is well underway.

    Google can do whatever they want: they are terrible at design, so it's not surprising.

    The fact that Apple has made a "bezel-less" iPhone as in the iPhone X and publicly stated that this is the phone they've been wanting for years in terms of an all screen phone... and that this is the future... along with Samsung miniaturizing their bezels in the Galaxy line... and LG in their flagship, etc... puts to rest any proposition that large bezels on a mobile device is not old design and dated.

    And it's all for good reason: the larger the screen to body ratio, the smaller the physical body of the device can be made in relation to the screen size.

    Imagine if Samsung just stayed with the old design of the previous Note on the left, and put glass on the back, along with bumping up the internal specs and calling it "revolutionary", "magical", a "brand new, redesigned smartphone!". It's absurd.

    [​IMG]

    Here's LG's flagship smartphone... (there's no turning back, bezels are dead):

    [​IMG]
     
  21. flat five macrumors 603

    flat five

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Location:
    newyorkcity
    #21
    ....8 sheets of paper in additional thickness
    + 1 slice of bread in weight
    -----------------------------------
    TANK

    ........
    got it.
     
  22. iSayBoourns Suspended

    iSayBoourns

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2017
    #22
    I never said bezels weren’t dead. I even said the slimming of bezels will continue moving forward. No doubt most phones in 2018 will be slim bezels and pushing closer and closer to 100% screen to body ratio (that’ll be at least two years off) but you can be guaranteed that there will be some phones still coming out with the typical thick bezels as cheaper options, for those who do not care for expensive bezel less designs.

    I was just pointing out that just because a lot of top flagship devices have moved to slimming bezels, doesn’t mean manufacturers have to stop offering an option that still have bezels. It doesn’t make them ancient old relics. At least not for a year or so more.

    Get the one you want and who cares how stale or old the design is on a lower tier option.
     
  23. booksbooks thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Aug 28, 2013
    #23
    I am 6'1" and 200 pounds, and fit. I noticed the difference in weight right away testing it. It is noticeably heavier. There is a wide gamut of people out there that will need to use this, and the phone at this point feels heavy. It's not just that it's heavier, the large physical size of the phone combined with the increased weight causes the lever with one handed holding to increase the torque required to hold it at the joint(s). Thus, with such a large physical phone, increasing the weight exacerbates the increased torque at the joint(s) in a way that is amplified.

    And like it's only me bringing this up...

    "Other than this, and the fact that you now get wireless charging to the Qi standard (another benefit to a glass rear), the phone is now noticeably heavier than last time."

    http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/appl...aster-better-but-essentially-more-of-the-same

    "The iPhone 8 Plus is... 14g heavier than the iPhone 7 Plus, 10g heavier than the iPhone 6S Plus and 30g heavier than the iPhone 6 Plus. At a total weight of 202g the iPhone 8 Plus feels pretty heavy, with only the Samsung Galaxy Note 8 with its colossal 6.3in screen coming anywhere near at 195g. Most rivals weigh around 160g.

    Like its smaller non-Plus sibling, the design of the iPhone 8 Plus has barely changed since it was introduced in 2014 with the iPhone 6 Plus, but it has aged worse. The iPhone 6 Plus was thin but relatively wide and tall for a smartphone with a 5.5in screen in 2014, with big bezels and a chunky top and bottom."

    http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/appl...aster-better-but-essentially-more-of-the-same

    "Very heavy
    Boring design"


    http://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/iphone-8-plus
    --- Post Merged, Oct 14, 2017 ---
    Interestingly, the chunky bezeled iPhone 8 / 8 Plus is not a "cheap" phone. It's one of the of the most expensive phones...
     
  24. flat five macrumors 603

    flat five

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Location:
    newyorkcity
    #24
    yeah, i was being snide with that comment earlier.. sorry.
    my daughter has an 8+ and i can tell a difference (in weight) between it and the previous plus models.

    personally, i like it like that*.. she says she likes how it feels better as well (she's 11).
    but yes, we are just two people.. i don't expect everybody else should feel the same way.


    *however, as my daily carry.. i wouldn't want a plus.. it's both too heavy and too big imo.. it does feel nice when i occasionally pick it up though.. maybe i just like it at those times because it feels different than what i'm used to.. a 6s


    -------
    idk.. you say you're getting iPhone X.. i suspect once the time comes that you actually have it, this 6 vs 8+ thing will be a distant worry ;)
     
  25. zipur macrumors 6502a

    zipur

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2011
    Location:
    The great state of Texas
    #25
    Just how much change does everyone want? All phone look the same nowadays anyway. At a distance you can't tell the difference between a Sammy and Apple. Same with desktops as everyone is jumping on the IMAC design all in one. Bottom line is performance in speed and apps that can use them. Thats all I want and need. the iPhone has a great camera, apps, size. Why all this complaining about a compete redesign. As far as the X is concerned I would stay away from it. Apple track record proves that the Xs will be a much better and more stable platform.
    But then back to my original point, what more do you need, calling, email, maps, facebook, tweets, music, news and selfies. As long as that is top notch I'm happy all backed up my Verizon's solid coverage an I'm sticking with 7+.
    well till the 11+ comes out.
     

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