iPhone Analysis and Palm Perspective

[wildmac]

Mr. Metz from PC Mag says it all:

"For all of ten minutes. Ten minutes isn't much, but I can safely say that the iPhone is even more impressive than it appeared during the Jobs keyote. And that's saying something."

Conclusion? Palm is dead, Treo is dead, every other high-end mobile phone is dead...Apple leads yet another revolution...simply amazing.

I will get one as soon as it comes, no question about it.

No, no no.... there are many business needs that Apple has not shown with the iPhone...

1) Who cares about push email from a yahoo account?... business users will need GoodLink.

2) using it as a modem. (tethering). that is also a necessity.

3) 3rd party specialized apps.

4) as mentioned already, SSH and other types of communications options.

5) can't synch over bluetooth?... even a Treo does that.

Right now the iPhone is very slick, and will be a hit with the "in" crowd, but the business users that are the bulk of the market for $500 smartphones and who pay the data charges these phones require will need at least some of the above issues dealt with.

 

[mick4394]

No, no no.... there are many business needs that Apple has not shown with the iPhone...

1) Who cares about push email from a yahoo account?... business users will need GoodLink.

2) using it as a modem. (tethering). that is also a necessity.

3) 3rd party specialized apps.

4) as mentioned already, SSH and other types of communications options.

5) can't synch over bluetooth?... even a Treo does that.

Right now the iPhone is very slick, and will be a hit with the "in" crowd, but the business users that are the bulk of the market for $500 smartphones and who pay the data charges these phones require will need at least some of the above issues dealt with.

Agreed. I don't view the iPhone as a business class phone. I view it as a Sidekick class phone with a business class price.

 

[joeshell383]

Vista Copy

Also lets be fair the iPhone copied/borrowed stuff from Palm such as the ringer/silent switch function, threaded SMS, the famous home button/home screen, phone app etc but thats ok they took the good stuff and improved on them so im not complaining.

Also, the interface is completely ripped off of Vista. If this is what Leopard looks like, than Apple will have copied MICROSOFT.

 

[joeshell383]

Imagine the possibilities, even for Apple widgets...

Don't you think the iPhone (from what we've seen) looks like an ideal platform for dashboard style widgets?

They are really easy to write yourself. We just need to wait to see if Apple will allow this but I don't know why people think Apple will lock this down to 1st party apps. It seems like an ideal platform for 3rd party stuff.

Imagine if they included (or you could create/import):
A dictionary/thesaurus with audio
A calculator/tip calculator/graphing calculator
A translator with audio
etc...

You wouldn't need any of those individual devices/internet and it would be easily accessible on the large full color screen.

 

[edoates]

If it is true, though, that the battery is not easily user-replaceable on the fly, that aspect may be a "learning experience" for Apple. It's one thing to be without an iPod for a few days while the battery is replaced, but a cell phone is different. People rely on them, and the broader cell phone market, which is what Apple is aiming for, is not going to accept it. I would hope that somehow they've made battery replacement easier, even just to the extent of making the case easier to open.

I'm a huge iPhone supporter, by the way. I think the multi-touch screen and the "convergence" as people call it of web, computing, media, and phone functions is the best realized yet, by far. But I did recently learn how difficult battery replacement is with my old 4G iPod.

The battery issue is easily resolved by third parties. The iPhone has a regular iPod doc connector which can supply power: so just create a battery pack which clips onto the iPhone connector and viola: a spare battery. These things already exist for iPods.

Ed

 

[rt_brained]

Indeed, Palm CEO had suggested that Apple would have difficulties in entering the phone market after Palm had "learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone".

Oh, absolutely...assuming Palm's design and R&D team are on par with Apple's.

 

[mick4394]

Oh, absolutely...assuming Palm's design and R&D team are on par with those at Apple.

What the Treo does do is take some punishment. I doubt that the iPhone will be the tank that the Treo is. Apple designers sure know how to make great looking hardware, but often times pretty devices are also fragile devices. Ipods aren't exactly known for their toughness.

 

[sishaw]

The battery issue is easily resolved by third parties. The iPhone has a regular iPod doc connector which can supply power: so just create a battery pack which clips onto the iPhone connector and viola: a spare battery. These things already exist for iPods.

Ed

Eh, it's not that easy. Just getting the case open is a pain, and one false move and you tear a tiny ribbon cable and you're SOL. Or, you have to be without the device for a few days--as I said, not a tragedy for a luxury item, but undoable for someone who needs their phone every day. It's not a big issue, and frankly, it doesn't bother me personally (there's no way I'm not getting one of these, unless it's because Apple comes out with something even more amazing using this technology), but Apple is entering a new market where expectations are different, and being able to pop in a space battery on the fly is one of those expectations. I agree the external battery pack is a solution, albeit not an elegant one.

 

[50548]

No, no no.... there are many business needs that Apple has not shown with the iPhone...

1) Who cares about push email from a yahoo account?... business users will need GoodLink.

2) using it as a modem. (tethering). that is also a necessity.

3) 3rd party specialized apps.

4) as mentioned already, SSH and other types of communications options.

5) can't synch over bluetooth?... even a Treo does that.

Right now the iPhone is very slick, and will be a hit with the "in" crowd, but the business users that are the bulk of the market for $500 smartphones and who pay the data charges these phones require will need at least some of the above issues dealt with.

Sorry, but I am a normal business user as most execs out there...and this also means I DON'T need 90% of what you mentioned there...

1 - the iPhone has almost universal email access, including MS Exchange...and that's what most people need and use;

2 - using it as a modem? What for, if every civilized notebook out there already has wi-fi, BT, ethernet and (gasp) modem?

3 - 3rd party apps for what, specifically? You've got media, browser, calendar, widgets, mail and, more importantly, a phone that works with no hassles...every other need is a niche;

4 - SSH? I've never used it on a desktop machine...and I won't use it on a phone either;

5 - BT syncing is just coming, believe me...it's simple and it's gonna be there.

As a final comment, I think you guys should tell the difference between the needs of MR members and the needs of 90% of the target market out there, formed by lawyers, execs, secretaries, teenagers, commuters...not necessarily programmers or very specialized technicians.

The iPhone is close to complete and wonderful...and it set the bar pretty high for anyone else...trust me.

 

[rish]

No, no no.... there are many business needs that Apple has not shown with the iPhone...

1) Who cares about push email from a yahoo account?... business users will need GoodLink.

2) using it as a modem. (tethering). that is also a necessity.

3) 3rd party specialized apps.

4) as mentioned already, SSH and other types of communications options.

5) can't synch over bluetooth?... even a Treo does that.

Right now the iPhone is very slick, and will be a hit with the "in" crowd, but the business users that are the bulk of the market for $500 smartphones and who pay the data charges these phones require will need at least some of the above issues dealt with.

This device is for the general consumer who enjoys purchasing a device with sheer kudos and ease of use.

However lets not forget that FCC approval will take time and the intro device will be improved upon by the time its released to market.

 

[shawnce]

That's not good...

LOL why?

Are you implying that Apple looked at photos of the LG device, decided to copy the design and had a working prototype (nearly fully functional... enough to start the FCC process) going in less then a month?

Folks LG and Apple developed similar products using similar concepts (large touch screen) but clearly differences exist between the two products (IMHO iPhone has the superior implementation of touch UI)... and the development of one did not precede the development of the other by any reasonable measure of time.

 

[rish]

Ahem!

Sorry, but I am a normal business user as most execs out there...and this also means I DON'T need 90% of what you mentioned there...

1 - the iPhone has almost universal email access, including MS Exchange...and that's what most people need and use;

2 - using it as a modem? What for, if every civilized notebook out there already has wi-fi, BT, ethernet and (gasp) modem?

3 - 3rd party apps for what, specifically? You've got media, browser, calendar, widgets, mail and, more importantly, a phone that works with no hassles...every other need is a niche;

4 - SSH? I've never used it on a desktop machine...and I won't use it on a phone either;

5 - BT syncing is just coming, believe me...it's simple and it's gonna be there.

As a final comment, I think you guys should tell the difference between the needs of MR members and the needs of 90% of the target market out there, formed by lawyers, execs, secretaries, teenagers, commuters...not necessarily programmers or very specialized technicians.

The iPhone is close to complete and wonderful...and it set the bar pretty high for anyone else...trust me.

I couldn't have said it better!

 

[Paladin]

Why would Apple include Bluetooth 2.0 with all of these hypothetical limitations? Let me see...we're getting forecasts of no Bluetooth syncing and no tethering. Of course, not one person has any clue that this is actually the case. If Apple wanted to severely limit Bluetooth, then they'd have chosen Verizon as the exclusive. Apple has always embraced Bluetooth, and they will continue to with the iPhone. They didn't put Bluetooth on the phone just so we could wear a stupid looking earpiece into our local restaurants. Yeah, it wasn't shown in the keynote, but that doesn't mean that the functionality won't be there.

 

[newrigel]

I'm sooo glad that Apple came out with a device that is USEABLE! OS X mobile is the key to innovative products that will keep Apple on top of their game. I don't care if they don't support PS on it... The thing is... it does what it's supposed to do and integration is whats going to be Apples strong points! Apple has always done that and their doing it again...
Where's that OCTAL MacPro!

 

[whatever]

No, no no.... there are many business needs that Apple has not shown with the iPhone...

1) Who cares about push email from a yahoo account?... business users will need GoodLink.

2) using it as a modem. (tethering). that is also a necessity.

3) 3rd party specialized apps.

4) as mentioned already, SSH and other types of communications options.

5) can't synch over bluetooth?... even a Treo does that.

Right now the iPhone is very slick, and will be a hit with the "in" crowd, but the business users that are the bulk of the market for $500 smartphones and who pay the data charges these phones require will need at least some of the above issues dealt with.

Modems? Is this 2007 or 1980? Using a traditional modem (tethering) is a thing of the past. Who does that? Between WiFi in McDonalds to Broadband cards, why would I want to kill my Cell phones battery and lug around an unnecceary cable?

As far as the Bluetooth syncing goes. That means a lot of different things to different people. Syncing iTunes, I doubt it, because the content is too large. But syncing files, maybe.

Who said there are no 3rd party apps? For all we know there will be an iPhone store as a part of iTunes in June, filled with 3rd party apps.

No one will really know until the FCC gives it the green light and hands it off to the consumers.

 

[doctorgregg]

iPhone Analysis - History Repeats Itself

Reading the several early evaluations of the iPhone is like re-reading historical events that are often forgotten and never learned.

After the initial "wow" reaction upon the final unveiling of the iPhone we see much posturing about how the iPhone is "vaporware" and how it really doesn't meet the so-called network (3G) and prosumer expectations. After all, didn't we hear similar protestations when the first iPod was released?

I for one did not expect anything like what was finally enveiled on Tuesday. I am quite happy to overlook the apparent short-comings of this device until I am able to purchase one later this year. After struggling with finding a few good applications to run on my current BlackBerry 3700 series I am not at all frustrated with the currently closed development for the iPhone - I have no doubt, though, that more apps will be written for this device.

 

[jettredmont]

Yeah, Jobs seemed to leave it purposefully vague. The tech-specs state that you can get 5 hours of talk, video playback, or browsing, but I am fairly confident that these activities were not measured at the same time. So this means you can do 2 hours of talk, 1 hour of video, and 2 hours of wifi use in one battery session, but not at the same time. That said, I doubt even these numbers. It is easy to manipulate battery life figures - are you testing with a strong cellular signal, or a weak signal? Are these real world, or lab tests? I bet most users will have Wifi on and cellphone on - does this mean that your phone will work for a total of 2 hours max?

No other slim phone has every gotten good battery life. That is the tradeoff for slimness, and one of the primary reasons the Treo is so thick. While Apple's engineering is incredible, it seems hard to believe that they have solved this one industry-wide problem in a device that looks more power-hungry then any other.

First off, of COURSE "five hours of A, B, or C" means that you can do any ONE of those for five hours (or a combination adding up to five hours).

Second, "I bet most users will have Wifi on and cellphone on". Umm, yeah, probably, but the cellphone will be in standby, which probably has about the battery life of the Treo in standby, which is around 300 hours (give or take).

Third, "It is easy to manipulate battery life figures - are you testing with a strong cellular signal, or a weak signal? Are these real world, or lab tests?" Of course it is. That's why the Treo's claimed 5 hours of talk time is really more like 2 hours of talk + goof around in WM5 time. All cell phone rated times are in ideal, strong cell tower situations. I expect Apples were, too (I mean, there is no "typical" situation for cell phones, and talk time can go from five hours with a strong tower to about thirty minutes on the fringe outskirts of a tower's range).

So, I trust Apple's "5 hours" estimate just as much as I trust Palms (and Moto's, and Nokia's and Sanyo's, etc). Which is: I know 5 hours is about 2 hours of solid talk/usage time. That's what I get on my Treo, and that ratio is what I got on my LG phone before it. It's not a matter of the tests being rigged: it's a matter of the only common comparison that anyone can trust is "idealized conditions", and everyone (for the most part) degrades from that at the same rate.

 

[Ljot]

How do you do quick notes with a Treo? I used to with my Tungsten and Grafitti, but the Treo doesn't support that shorthand that I learned over the years..... I can't/won't type fast enough with the QWERTY on my Treo. I'm sure the same will hold true on the iPhone.

I don't. That is why I use a Tungsten and a separate (paired) GSM-phone. Unfair comparison with the iPhone? Maybe, but didn't somebody say something about being 5 years ahead?

And regarding 3G in the iPhone. I did some quick calculations of estimated talk-time. One thing we can be fairly sure of is that Apple has not found a radical new battery type, so we can safely assume that they have the same Wh/kg as everybody else. We have the iPhone at 135 grams with a talktime of 5 hours for GSM. The SonyEricsson W950i has a weight of 112 grams and a talk-time of 7.5 hours for GSM/ 2.5 hours for UMTS. If we assume that Apple and SonyEricsson are equally good at designing low-power radios, this would give the iPhone a hypothetical UMTS talk-time of 1.7 hours. Not to bad, but not very good either. (I am still curious about the stand-by time of the iPhone: it is not given in the specs...)

 

[matticus008]

So, I trust Apple's "5 hours" estimate just as much as I trust Palms (and Moto's, and Nokia's and Sanyo's, etc). Which is: I know 5 hours is about 2 hours of solid talk/usage time. That's what I get on my Treo, and that ratio is what I got on my LG phone before it.

I get a solid 4 hours of talk time out of my T-Mobile MDA (which I use with Cingular service due to professional commitments), and it's over a year old. I have absolutely no problem believing that the iPhone can hold 5 hours of talk time; iPod battery life is exactly as advertised (I get 12-13 hours out of my first generation nano, and my full-sized iPod is still going strong after almost 3 years, too).

this would give the iPhone a hypothetical UMTS talk-time of 1.7 hours. Not to bad, but not very good either. (I am still curious about the stand-by time of the iPhone: it is not given in the specs...)

Except that the iPhone doesn't support UMTS, so GSM time would easily reach the 5 hours quoted, even using your dubious model.

 

[Thanatoast]

Steve said that phone calls are the killer app for the iPhone, but I think he's being disingenuous. You can get any number of phones that make acceptable calls. The UI is the killer app on the iPhone. As mentioned everywhere, this phone has few truly "new" features, but what it has is implemented so seamlessly, so elegantly that they seem like a whole new experience.

I am eagerly awaiting the new innovations that occur following the release of this UI. Perhaps now we know why we haven't seen those Leopard secret features? And also perhaps why we may be getting new displays soon?

 

[Ljot]

Except that the iPhone doesn't support UMTS, so GSM time would easily reach the 5 hours quoted, even using your dubious model.

I know. This was just an observation in the pervasive "iPhone will have 3G when launched in europe" discussion. And weights and efficiency measures are some of the better ways to make estimates regarding mobile tech, in my experience and humble opinion.

 

[annexw]

2 - using it as a modem? What for, if every civilized notebook out there already has wi-fi, BT, ethernet and (gasp) modem?

Except the Macbook and Macbook Pros, where you have to buy the modem separately. Sometimes you don't access to wireless, BT, Ethernet or a land line. At those times, tethering is a life-saver. I will admit I'm thinking of rather specialized situations, but I live near the oil patch so these things can come up with buyers.

I have no doubt the new phone will sell well once it gets FCC approval and ships, but until you have a customer release unit in hand there is no "for sure" information. People have played with a demo unit and demo's don't always stack -up to the real thing. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

It will be interesting to see one, if it ever makes it to Canada.

 

[matticus008]

I know. This was just an observation in the pervasive "iPhone will have 3G when launched in europe" discussion. And weights and efficiency measures are some of the better ways to make estimates regarding mobile tech, in my experience and humble opinion.

We'll just have to see. We don't know what the SOC consumption will be, since we don't have many hardware details, and since the battery seems to be integrated, the upshot to that is that it can be substantially larger than a removable one. Existing cell phone batteries also don't exactly lead the way in terms of efficiency, though maybe Ericsson is better than others (namely Motorola). The W950 and the iPhone may also have radically different power management capabilities, and as a mixed-use device, its biggest problem will be people watching 30 minute TV shows, listening to 6 hours of music, and then being surprised by a limited 2-hour talk time.

 

[wildmac]

Agreed. I don't view the iPhone as a business class phone. I view it as a Sidekick class phone with a business class price.

Totally. They need a lot more features/solutions to convince the business crowd, who are the major buyers of Treos. etc.

 

[clevin]

if there is anything this iphone brought to me, is the thoughts of getting a palm.... cheaper, Im already with cingular, and im satisfied with my Nokia 3200. but a PDA sounds good now....