iPhone Buyer Statistics, O2 Confirmed for UK?

[gnasher729]

I imagine that a decently priced unlimited data plan is a big requirement for Apple in terms of negotiating with any provider. It might shake up parts of Europe, but I think that's what Apple would push for.

In the UK, Vodaphone offers "unlimited internet access" for £7.50; unfortunately their definition of "unlimited" is 120 MB per month. That is Megabytes, not Gigabytes. Others call 3GB "unlimited", which makes slightly more sense.

With the slowish Edge network, it would be hard for an iPhone user to exceed those 3GB per month by a lot, so AT&T can easily afford a data plan that is only limited by the network speed. For an iPhone using 3G and therefore technically capable of downloading say 40GB a month, I could imagine a data plan with a reasonable limit and reasonable fees if you exceed it. I don't think Apple would ever agree to something like 120MB per month.

 

[j_maddison]

At the moment, in the UK, I'm paying £10 per month (including taxes) for 300 rollover minutes to any country, including foreign mobiles, and 300 texts.

As is customary in Europe, I do not lose minutes for incoming calls (caller pays, always), so, I find that 300 rollover minutes are enough for my needs.

Many people in the UK pay more than that to cover the cost of "subsidized" handsets but £10 is about the right base price for the voice/text segment of any package.

I would value the addition of unlimited 3G data at around £20, possibly five or ten pounds more if I can pass connectivity through to my MBP via Bluetooth.

I think that, whoever they go with, Apple need to recognize that the European market tends to be less price sensitive than the American market but we won't tolerate crippled services as much: we love 3G and using our phones as modems for our laptops, missing features that didn't really bother the American market.

I have no idea where you've got that plan from, but it's not representative of an average UK plan. I've never heard of a tariff that low in cost offering so many minutes, its not available from any of the four main networks websites. And I've never heard of minutes being allowed for foreign calls as part of the standard package. If I were you I'd never move from that contract, you'll never get that deal again anywhere!

The average cost for a sim only deal starts between £15 and £20. O2 offer a maximum of 200 minutes at £15, Voda will give you 300 minutes at £20, Orange 125 minutes at £20. T mobile only do a £7.50 offer for 50 minutes. None of the main networks offer international free minutes.

I'm pretty sure that the average arpu in the UK is still £35 (for subsidised handsets), but its been a good nine months since I've worked in that industry.

Jay

 

[OllyW]

I have no idea where you've got that plan from, but it's not representative of an average UK plan. I've never heard of a tariff that low in cost offering so many minutes, its not available from any of the four main networks websites. And I've never heard of minutes being allowed for foreign calls as part of the standard package. If I were you I'd never move from that contract, you'll never get that deal again anywhere!

The average cost for a sim only deal starts between £15 and £20. O2 offer a maximum of 200 minutes at £15, Voda will give you 300 minutes at £20, Orange 125 minutes at £20. T mobile only do a £7.50 offer for 50 minutes. None of the main networks offer international free minutes.

I'm pretty sure that the average arpu in the UK is still £35 (for subsidised handsets), but its been a good nine months since I've worked in that industry.

Jay

It's a special SIM only deal from Virgin for it's cable customers, I've got it for my daughter and it saves me a fortune

 

[bilbo--baggins]

I am refering to the English adverts for vodaphone with the English football player, it kinda killed Scotish support for vodaphone. Why advertish a English nobody to sell phones in Scotland. It really put me of them as did there logo. O2 is fine there nice and simple never needed any support form them because they work. And Orange im used to because i used it in Thailand, France, and Scotland.

I guess Vodafone just aren't aware of, or don't care about, the racist opinion against the English that festers in parts of Scotland.

 

[j_maddison]

It's a special SIM only deal from Virgin for it's cable customers, I've got it for my daughter and it saves me a fortune

Shame I dont work in a cable area, that would suit my brother down to the ground. That's an excellent deal, you're onto a winner there

jay

I guess Vodafone just aren't aware of, or don't care about, the racist opinion against the English that festers in parts of Scotland.

Ha Ha, I don't think the chap was being racist. Until you live in either Scotland or Wales, you wont realise just how England centric things are. In fact it's quite arrogant and patronising. The media often ignores the ethntic differences, refers to british atheletes or performers as being British or English, unless the athelete loses and then they're Welsh or Scotish again. And there are countless other examples that annoy the hell out of me

It's not that he's being racist, its just annoyance. He's presented you with a small taste of what Scotish and English people have to put up with from the English, and you've totally bitten.

I'm not sure what the Northern Irish think, which is why I haven't commented on them.

Anyway lets not let this thread turn into a political thing.

jay

 

[OllyW]

I guess Vodafone just aren't aware of, or don't care about, the racist opinion against the English that festers in parts of Scotland.

That famous "chip on the shoulder", usually most apparent around the time of the World Cup finals.

 

[Roller]

It's good to hear that so many people are satisfied, as I generally am.

It's interesting that the top three wish list items quoted in the USA Today article (longer battery life, more memory, faster speed) are primarily hardware-related. But Apple would do well to provide the missing features and take care of problems that they can address via software updates. I hope that this survey doesn't delay that.

 

[koobcamuk]

I am refering to the English adverts for vodaphone with the English football player, it kinda killed Scotish support for vodaphone. Why advertish a English nobody to sell phones in Scotland. It really put me of them as did there logo. O2 is fine there nice and simple never needed any support form them because they work. And Orange im used to because i used it in Thailand, France, and Scotland.

I care more about what I pay for my phone useage than which idiotic 'celebrity' they choose to use. I also don't care about the logo, but I can't see what's wrong with it.

I really don't get your point, but maybe if I was from Scotland I would better understand. Who knows. It's vodafone not vodaphone by the way.

I'm not sure what the Northern Irish think, which is why I haven't commented on them.

do they have mobile phones?

Joking

I am from Norfolk anyway, so I am used to being the butt of the joke. Who cares. As for racism, its not. It's being xenophobic.

 

[xUKHCx]

I care more about what I pay for my phone useage than which idiotic 'celebrity' they choose to use. I also don't care about the logo, but I can't see what's wrong with it.

I really don't get your point, but maybe if I was from Scotland I would better understand. Who knows. It's vodafone not vodaphone by the way.

Havn't had any hands on expereince with vodafone handset do they brand the hell out of them like orange et al do. really hate that, one of the reasons i'm with 02.

 

[nebsta]

Ah, of course. It didn't occur to me you were someplace with a sane mobile provider market.

US customers get charged for receiving calls??? Thats crazy!

 

[cal6n]

*snip*

As for racism, its not. It's being xenophobic.

Actually it's neither. It's just the failure to realise that UK govt PLC has been shafting us all since before the Magna Carta. Regardless of whether we're from England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland, it's the ordinary people that carry the burden of supporting the parasites. The cultural divides and old enmities between the regions, as well as the North/South divide within England and those based on race and religion, are useful to the power-mongers as they cloud the true divide. That between the haves and the have-nots. It's still there, regardless of the attempts to spin it away.

 

[dale.albiston]

i've got an o2 phone (K800i) and a contract thats over in december.

750 txt & 300 mins a month for 35 ukp.

if the iphone deal is close to that (either under 40quid or fewer texts) I'll probably go for it.

using it as a modem is nice, but i doubt i'll bother, unless 'unlimited' starts to resemble something useful (given hm gov has just shrugged its shoulders over a petition on this i can't see it somehow) modem use ain't gunna happen.

or at least i won't use it as such.

a few hundred meg a month would do me fine, I have a decent static IP and the ability to run a server so some sort of proxy can be setup to strip out adverts and other multimeg crap..

however unless i can run a decent email app, with decent filters, I won't be using mobile email.

my current camera phone runs to 3.2meg, so the iphones is a step down.

but and its a big but, unless there is a way to actually use the data space on the phone as a disc i'll stick to a seperate ipod and phone, both of which i have.

this looks good, but i'm not sold on it yet

 

[Digital Skunk]

O2, not the best choice for the UK. Vodafone have a much better network.

I guess they were the only company who would bend over far enough for big Jobs to do the business.

This choice will affect iPhone sales, says he who's now thinking twice about it. If it were Vodafone; no issues.

Ho hum.

I wonder if a 3G version is coming for Europe? Seems stupid to go back to slow networks now all the carriers have invested in 3G.

I've used O2 before and it's not exactly great in my opinion.

I'm currently on a Vodafone contract which -- as far as I'm aware -- has a much more reliable network.

Even if it IS O2, I'm sure I'd make the switch when my contract is done. If they choose EDGE over 3G it won't be much of a deal-breaker for me, but who has EDGE in UK? Eeek!

That's just the way it worked over here in the states. Verizon and Sprint were much better networks but Apple chose AT&T instead... opting for a slower network with limited service.

 

[JeromeOD]

I've currently got a K800 on Orange, and the 3G data is pretty disappointing, when it drops back to GPRS the difference isn't like chalk and cheese for what I use data for. I'd rather have the battery life, and if they can get an edge network running at 180-200k in the UK, then great, that's enough for me. I don't use video calling, it's terrible quality. Moving between 2g and 3g networks is also far from seamless on my SE K800. The only things I would miss on the current iPhone software would be bluetooth file exchange, MMS and using it as a modem. Oh, and if the plans on AT&T are anything to go by for what O2 have in store, i'll save about £90 a month compared to our phones on orange (most expensive data in the whole world), so the price of the iPhones themselves will be immaterial.

 

[kallisti]

When you think about it, the market is wide open for one of the other manufacturers to come up with something to fill the iphone-sized gap at all the other telcos.

In theory the market is wide open. In practice it isn't. The iPhone is completely amazing to use and I doubt any other phone maker is going to come close to reproducing it in the near future. The iPhone simply works on every level.

As a phone I am getting better reception in Rhode Island than I ever did with Verizon.

The UI is amazing. Absolutely amazing. It is intuitive on a level that no other current phones can match. My wife (who is a technophobe) figured out how to use it with no coaching from me. It is the first device that she has ever lusted after. I can't stress this enough. She hates technology, and yet she fell in love with it almost immediately.

The built in apps work well. The virtual keyboard works well. Syncing works flawlessly.

I am using iCal for the first time because it is now actually useful to me. Visual voicemail, while it initially seemed like a gimick, has gotten to the point that I'm not sure how I lived without it. Email is no longer something I dread dealing with as it's now MUCH easier to keep on top of it throughout the day.

While I was initially scared about the slow speed of EDGE, I have to say that in practice it isn't that bad. I am surfing more on my iPhone than I do on my laptop or desktop.

Maps is amazing. I never really found Google maps all that exciting on my laptop. On my iPhone is addicting. Very, very addicting.

Multitouch still blows me away. It is so easy to use. I find myself becoming annoyed with my MBP that it doesn't feature multitouch.

While other manufacturers will no doubt try to fill the perceived price void created by the iPhone, they will most likely fail. None of them will be able to create the total package that makes the iPhone work. Feature-wise, they may be able to create something that seems to compare. I am highly doubtful that anyone else will be able to create the total package that makes the iPhone so amazing anytime soon.

 

[koobcamuk]

Havn't had any hands on expereince with vodafone handset do they brand the hell out of them like orange et al do. really hate that, one of the reasons i'm with 02.

Quite heavily branded, but I don't mind. There's always other themes and things. Apple wouldn't allow branding anyway. It's not as bad as Orange.

I just like my £15 a month for 500 mins and 500 texts. Throw in the vodafone 'passport deal' and I am really happy.

 

[JeromeOD]

Kallisti, what's the email like, given that there's no spam control? Apple Mail filters about 40-50 spams a day for me, I don't relish getting those all delivered to my iPhone.

 

[MacTheSpoon]

Count me in as one of the very happy owners. It isn't perfect, but it's awesome, and I wouldn't want any other phone out there. I just love this thing.

When they start allowing 3d party apps on it, I will be one of the extremely happy owners. This thing has so much potential, and I'd really love to see what developers do with it.

 

[rob@robburns.co]

When you think about it, the market is wide open for one of the other manufacturers to come up with something to fill the iphone-sized gap at all the other telcos.

In theory the market is wide open. In practice it isn't.

I agree with kallisti. Donnacha, if you think the idea of an iPod killer is a joke, then an iPhone killer is an even bigger joke. The competition will definitely be going after the iPhone like its the holy grail, but they will most likely fail to capture its UI elegance. The iPod would be a cinch to mimic compared to an iPhone. Apple has raised the bar here tremendously.

 

[Donnacha]

rob and kallisti, I understand what you're saying about the superior design of the iphone but, whereas with the ipod superior design alone was enough to dominate the market, with the iphone you've got an entirely new variable: an existing eco-system of telcos, each with existing customers, familiarity, brand-awareness and contracts.

All I'm saying is that, if another manufacturer came out with someone even vaguely as good as the iphone, huge forces would swing behind it because the industry is desperate not to let Apple wrench the power they've always enjoyed.

This is not a re-run of the ipod's unstoppable rise, this will be more like the fight between Mac and Windows, an inferior OS which managed to get vested interests to line up behind it.

 

[rob@robburns.co]

rob and kallisti, I understand what you're saying about the superior design of the iphone but, whereas with the ipod superior design alone was enough to dominate the market, with the iphone you've got an entirely new variable: an existing eco-system of telcos, each with existing customers, familiarity, brand-awareness and contracts.

All I'm saying is that, if another manufacturer came out with someone even vaguely as good as the iphone, huge forces would swing behind it because the industry is desperate not to let Apple wrench the power they've always enjoyed.

This is not a re-run of the ipod's unstoppable rise, this will be more like the fight between Mac and Windows, an inferior OS which managed to get vested interests to line up behind it.

OK, I see what you're saying now. I definitely agree with that. Because of the existing power-base, I wouldn't be surprised to see REM put out two solo paper cups, tied together by a string and then have the industry pundits herald the end of the iPhone. And tactics like that have effects too. So its a concern for the iPhone's market success.

 

[Donnacha]

I have no idea where you've got that plan from, but it's not representative of an average UK plan. I've never heard of a tariff that low in cost offering so many minutes, its not available from any of the four main networks websites. And I've never heard of minutes being allowed for foreign calls as part of the standard package. If I were you I'd never move from that contract, you'll never get that deal again anywhere!

Jay, you're wrong.

As OllyW says, it's a SIM only deal from Virgin but I was using it as an example of what the base price for voice and text connectivity should be, without handsets, multimedia or other distractions. It's also worth noting that I didn't have to get tied into a contract to get that price either - I can cancel at any time and my only obligation is to pay for the current month.

Remember, Virgin buys their service from T-Mobile, so, there's are already 2 layers of profit there. People may well pay more for their "deals" but this is what you should consider the base price from any provider; koobcamuk's £15 for 500 minutes and 500 texts from Orange is pretty much the same price. I have seen ALL the telcos except Vodafone run deals in the same ballpark - you just have to check out the money-saving forums occasionally.

I highlighted the base price so that people can have a better stab at estimating what the plans accompanying the unsubsidized iphone should be - there's no point in people basing their guesses on their current, awful deal which some spotty smoothy in the Carphonewarehouse talked them into. Some people felt that the AT&T plans, once revealed, were a pleasant surprise, but this was mainly because they had been paying too much to their existing providers. It wasn't a bad deal but it wasn't some sort of miracle. Expect roughly the same here in the UK.

 

[rob@robburns.co]

Jay, you're wrong.

As OllyW says, it's a SIM only deal from Virgin but I was using it as an example of what the base price for voice and text connectivity should be, without handsets, multimedia or other distractions. …

I highlighted the base price so that people can have a better stab at estimating what the plans accompanying the unsubsidized iphone should be - there's no point in people basing their guesses on their current, awful deal which some spotty smoothy in the Carphonewarehouse talked them into. Some people felt that the AT&T plans, once revealed, were a pleasant surprise, but this was mainly because they had been paying too much to their existing providers. It wasn't a bad deal but it wasn't some sort of miracle. Expect roughly the same here in the UK.

While its definitely interesting to learn about special deals on plans, they tell us nothing about what a wireless plan [em]should[/em] cost. I'll remind you all of the economics issues again, but its always a question of marginal cost (if you remember that from your intro economics class). The marginal cost of a cell phone customer for any provider is 0 (whether in pounds dollars or whatever). The [em]average[/em] cost of a customer is definitely higher than that. However, given a provider who has excess capacity (and they all need to have a good measure of excess capacity), they add to their bottom-line whenever a customer pays more than the marginal cost: i.e., more than 0. The average cost may be something like £25 (hypothetically), but anything over £0 adds to the bottom line. They need to find some customers who pay much greater than £25 also, but any additional customer who pays more than 0 increases their profits. On average, they need their customers to pay greater than £25 pounds, but any number of them can pay much less (so long as the average is greater than 25).

If Virgin comes along and tells them they can add many many new customers to the network, Virgin can get a wholesale price discount and then the network provider can offer Virgin very attractive deals to increase their subscriber base. This is good especially if they think Virgin will draw from completely different customers than they can currently target.

A similar example here in the US, AT&T offers a $2 add-on to their home DSL subscribers that gives them access to 10,000 AT&T wireless hotspots throughout the US. The same service for non-DSL subscribers costs anywhere from $20 to $40 per month. They probably only offer that deal to their DSL subscribers, because they believe there is very little overlap between home DSL subscribers and customer paying $40 for wireless hotspot subscriptions. It would be nice to see AT&T add such a deep discount for iPhone subscribers who want to use AT&T WiFi hotspots (you find them at a lot of McDonalds here in the US). It might help balance some of the load on the Edge network as well as provide a great benefit for iPhone users to get some really fast network access.

 

[heisetax]

Verizon?

Well, of course, they had the most people to loose.

The model that Apple & AT&T seem to be operating under is in complete opposition with Verizon's operating model. They provide Ring Tones, music & photos to sell more types of services not to help an outside company or partner like Apple or to help supply their customers with low cost user run services. I'm speaking this as a Verizon customer that is happy with my cell phone service, but do not use any of the other Verizon pay extra for services. Around here they have about the best cell connection service. That's what I bought my Verizon cell phone plan for. Not for the unsupported items & features of my cell phone.

I don't believe that Verizon would have goten along with the always obtrusive Apple. AT&T, not being the top cell phone company, had less to lose & more to gain. I would have liked to have seen either Verizon or Sprint to have been the iPhone partner. But they are both doing too well on their own to change their business model to that which Apple appears to require. Part of the requiring has to do with the many features of the iPhone.

AT&T has the reputation of being the company that many of the locations that wanted to sell their service could not make a connection, let alone a reliable one. If I changed to AT&T my out of town daughter would also have to change to AT&T & I would have to accept the loss of cell phone service in a lot of the area that Verizon services very well. One person I know changed because they were on roaming in most of Omaha, NE where we both live.

iPhones for those that want it bad enough to go with AT&T cell phone service or good cell phone service & using one of the other carriers. The choice is yours.

Bill the TaxMan

 

[Donnacha]

While its definitely interesting to learn about special deals on plans, they tell us nothing about what a wireless plan [em]should[/em] cost. I'll remind you all of the economics issues again ...

Er... thanks for the lesson

I wasn't using the "special" deal to say anything about what the wireless part of any deal should be, I was being very specific: that deal's price represents the bottom line, the limbo point, the level to which they can, if they choose, profitably provide a voice and text service, even the piggy-backers like Virgin, and similar deals have been spotted in the wild from all but one UK telco.

Having a rough understanding of how far the voice and text part of a UK package can be pushed (and, believe me, Apple will have pushed like Hell) gives us a starting point, and that's all, towards guessing how much the data part weighs in at.

Another indicator is this month's data card price war between T-Mobile and Vodafone, both now offering "unlimited" (3GB) for under £30 inc VAT.

That, and the base rate for voice and texts you choose to ignore, lead me to guess that, if the Euro iphone is 3G and offers Bluetooth pass-through (and it really does need both to cut it in Europe), the overall deal will come in at £39.99 inc VAT for 300 mins and 300 texts, just over $80.

I think you'll find I'm right.