Yes, those other manufacturers keep cramming more and more features into their phones that most people never use or don't know how to access. The one thing they DON'T do is innovate with their user interfaces or their OS. THIS is why the iPhone works despite it's shortcomings. The vast majority of average cell phone users want something that is simple, elegant and that works.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
iPhone (Germany) to be Announced Next Week?
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Yes, those other manufacturers keep cramming more and more features into their phones that most people never use or don't know how to access. The one thing they DON'T do is innovate with their user interfaces or their OS. THIS is why the iPhone works despite it's shortcomings. The vast majority of average cell phone users want something that is simple, elegant and that works.
I for one really....really want one. But if a 3G release is as far away as thinksecret reckon, then I may as well just get one from the states, unlock it and put a prepaid card in it.
That way by the time the 16GB, 3G edition arrives in scandinavia I'll be ready for a new phone anyway.
Just have to wait and see what comes out on tuesday.
So people can get an idea of 3G coverage over here, below the signal coverage map for Zealand. Notice nearly the whole of Copenhagen is covered by up to 3.0 MBit/s
That way by the time the 16GB, 3G edition arrives in scandinavia I'll be ready for a new phone anyway.
Just have to wait and see what comes out on tuesday.
So people can get an idea of 3G coverage over here, below the signal coverage map for Zealand. Notice nearly the whole of Copenhagen is covered by up to 3.0 MBit/s
Attachments
Of all the phones Apple has to worry about, the HTC Touch would be near thebottom of the list. Its already outsold it worldwide via sales in the States alone.
My mother does not even have a computer yet she knows what the iPhone is and is impressed by the apparent ease of use. Yet she has probably never even heard of HTC.
Apple simply doesen't know what foreign exchange is. It's all just money units. 399$ = 399 As simple as that.
iPod Touch Germany = iPod Touch USA
So an iPhone for 399 is absolutely possible
Don't European prices include VAT? US prices don't include state sales taxes. If German VAT is 19%
then the price is not far apart.German Price (pretax) - 399 *(1-19%)= 323 = $448 vs. $399 for US.
Fortunately our sales taxes are no where near that level.
Apple should sell 3G phones in the U.S. because other countries have 3G.
Explain that one to me slower, please.
did i say apple should sell 3G phones in the US?????? no. evidently you are confused.
and because we get the phones free at the beginning we essentially think of them as disposable. we don't want that for iphone!! it's too nice to go in that category. and i think apple are right not to apply existing mobile phone business models to iphone.
Well, they're in the market for years and ever even tought of a device with such beautiful interface and design like the iPhone... I think that Apple is pretty safe at least for a year with this very model of 2g cell phone.
Er, you're right - it's an iPhone minus the camera, bluetooth, speaker, etc for almost the same price... and as I said, it's selling well!
If it can sell, why can't the iPhone without 3G?
Ugh, sorry, but I hate Nokia interfaces. I used to have a Nokia, and the damn menus drove me crazy. Samsung on the other hand makes nice phones and has good menus. I know I know, off topic, but personally, I would pick a Samsung over a Nokia.
Your post brought up an interesting thought into my head: logistics. Europe and Japan are much smaller than the US in terms of land. I think that factors into newer services being offered. Companies in Europe can lace the landscape with towers to give people service everywhere. The same feat would cost a lot more in the US because of the geography here. Just a thought.
Someone was saying that 3G phones in the U.S. aren't really needed right now.
You simply told them to get an Atlas.
I guess I really have no idea what you meant by that, then.
Don't European prices include VAT? US prices don't include state sales taxes. If German VAT is 19%
German Price (pretax) - 399 *(1-19%)= 323 = $448 vs. $399 for US.
Fortunately our sales taxes are no where near that level.
Well, think about Brazil:
18% VAT, and 35% more or less of other taxes...
It's cruel, man...
Umm, because you are not paying £35+ a month for it
Ok, so you prove that someone without a cell phone already probably won't buy an iPhone.
What you don't prove is that somebody with a cell phone already won't switch to an iPhone.
I think 3G coverage is far less important than some picky posters on this thread think, even in Europe. 3G is fairly widespread in the large US cities and you don't see many people complaining about the current iPhone not being compatible.
People aren't buying the iPhone only to use 3G. They're buying it for the interface, they're buying it to make calls, they're buying it because it's a cool, trendy thing to have. 3G compatability does not play a hand in any of these reasons.
If 1 out of 10 people in Europe who'd like to buy it don't because it lacks 3G, it's no big loss. They'll simply grab one of the 3G models that comes out in '08.
It's win-win for Apple.
I am really curious about the plans and locking to networks. I wonder how well that will go in Europe.
yes...this thread about introducing iphone in european countries. some people were posting that 3G is very important in europe. and then that person you mention said there was no need for 3G in iphone as there isn't really much 3G in the US. so i pointed out that there are other countries in the world. we are talking about iphone in europe.
Well, think about Brazil:
18% VAT, and 35% more or less of other taxes...
It's cruel, man...
Our $1,000 per month health care helps bring some parity to these things
Yes, it is. At least, it is here in the Netherlands. Your provider has to be able to unlock it one year after you purchased the phone with their plan.
I think the fellow you're referring to was trying to say - rightly so - that Apple would like to keep 1 model iPhone on the assembly line, and thus keep costs down.
That being the case, if they were to release a 3G phone in Europe, they'd probably switch the US model over at the same time, due to manufacturing synergies.
Well, I'm not sure how wireless companies work in Europe, but I think Apple wants a deal with each carrier, similar to the one they got with ATT. Other manufacturers don't do this because they don't demand $9 per month per phone that's been activated. This profit sharing scheme might require country by country contracts. Don't worry about it being outdated. It won't be by the time it gets there.
Actually, the US dollar is printed on some high quality cotton, and goes through several stages before it's ready to be used. We saw an interesting video on this in my econ class. Nonetheless, no currency is worth the amount that's printed on it (with the notable exception of the US penny, which is a drain on the Bureau of Engraving and Printing), otherwise, the concept of seigniorage wouldn't work
OK, econ lesson aside, Europeans will always pay more (by a little) because that market is more expensive. Using your own numbers, let's look at Apple's situation. iPhone in the US sells for $400. In order to get similar margins in Europe, Apple is going to have to account for more taxes (argue all you want, Europe does have higher taxes) and is going to have to account for greater employee costs, land costs (property is more expensive in Europe, whether it's leased or bought), and regulatory policies. To be nice, let's say that all of these factors add up to be about 15%, basically, it costs 15% more to get a product to market in Europe than it does in the US. Now, factor in the exchange rate fee that Apple is going to pay (even with a bulk rate, they're looking at something around 4%-ish), and finally factor in the possibility of a change in exchange rates. Suppose the Euro falls relative to the dollar in the next few months? Apple has to be prepared for that; customers won't be happy if they go to the store and find a different price on the iPhone every week. The price point allows Apple to keep prices stable without having to worry too much about what could happen.
I'll defer to my comments from above
The question is whether the people who disclosed this news to us know that. Remember, they might have forgotton
Don't European prices include VAT? US prices don't include state sales taxes. If German VAT is 19%
German Price (pretax) - 399 *(1-19%)= 323 = $448 vs. $399 for US.
Fortunately our sales taxes are no where near that level.
European prices always include VAT. Here in the Netherlands that's 19% (soon to be 20%).
This 3G nonsense has to stop. There are a lot more ppl still on 2G in the UK than most ppl seem to acknowledge. Most of them don't know what 3G is. I've had a 3G phone for over 3 years. The battery life on them is much less. There is no way Steve can just bung in 3G without damaging battery life to the point where the iphone doesn't stay on long enough to play a whole feature film.
The V3 razr still sells far better as a 2G phone than its thicker 3G cousin. It may now come free with a contract, but when it came out it cost a fair bit and its not that old a phone. Nobody uses 3G on their phones anyways. The data cards do well, but UMTS on a smartphone works out quite expensive for anything but lite browsing. If I had a 3G phone with wifi, I doubt I would use its 3G capabilities much. Better off just paying a monthly fee for the cloud and having wifi everywhere in central London.
The price premium seems in line with the rest of apple's foreign pricing policy. They don't need to put in any new features. To say that apple needs to bring out new models as often as Ericsson et al is laughable given their policy on updating computers relative to Dell & co, which, if anything, has given way to longer intervals between refreshes since the announcement of this phone.
Apple will make its own rules, update when it wants to update and hold back features for generations longer than its competitors, just like in every other sector it thrives in. People will want their product, period.
The V3 razr still sells far better as a 2G phone than its thicker 3G cousin. It may now come free with a contract, but when it came out it cost a fair bit and its not that old a phone. Nobody uses 3G on their phones anyways. The data cards do well, but UMTS on a smartphone works out quite expensive for anything but lite browsing. If I had a 3G phone with wifi, I doubt I would use its 3G capabilities much. Better off just paying a monthly fee for the cloud and having wifi everywhere in central London.
The price premium seems in line with the rest of apple's foreign pricing policy. They don't need to put in any new features. To say that apple needs to bring out new models as often as Ericsson et al is laughable given their policy on updating computers relative to Dell & co, which, if anything, has given way to longer intervals between refreshes since the announcement of this phone.
Apple will make its own rules, update when it wants to update and hold back features for generations longer than its competitors, just like in every other sector it thrives in. People will want their product, period.
IMHO, a eletronic device is not obsolete because it was launched a year or two ago. It will become obsolete if another device launched before or after its launch date could handle much more tasks with greater capacity, less power comsumption, easier of use, generating a lap in quality that the previous device lost all or at least most reason to co-exist.
Obsolescence is a concept that must be better used for everybody. All big companies are doing with cell phones is to put more colors in the screen and more functions in the cell phone. This does not make any phone with a year or two completely obsolete.
It will make calls, send sms, take pictures and more like a new one, just with some inferior quality.
A revolutionary device that is affordable to everybody and brings a lot of new tech, and a new better way of doing things makes even near future releases obsoletes.
SO, iPhone made a lot of phones in the market and to be launched obsolete.
This is one area where people misunderstand Apple's business model. Go read Roughlydrafted for an analysis of how in the US cell phones are given away as a way of hiding true cost of ownership (that is, the contract cost dwarfs the cost of any phone) and the result of giving away cheesy phones is that people expect them to be pieces of junk and want to replace them - for free - every 12 months. That is not what Apple is doing, they're not giving away iPhones so you'll sign up with ATT. They want you to sign up with ATT so you will BUY an iPhone from Apple.
Apple does not sell the iPhone for a subsidized price. That means Apple does NOT expect you to replace your own phone in a few months. Note Apple has said value will continue to be added by free software updates over the life of your iPhone. It means Apple sees the iPhone as a valuable item worth paying for. Obviously they are betting it will be worth what they charge, and for unclear reasons they decided to slash the price here in the US presumably to make it the right price for more people.
Again, the mistake is to look at the current business model and then see if Apple has the same items on the check list, for the same price. Apple, since it recreated itself, has repeatedly invented new business models that use new rules. That's why comparing iPods to other mp3 players don't work. The iPod will not compete on how many different tasks it performs. It competes by making a product that limits the number of qualities and strives to make those qualities work intuitively and easily. Elegance is what Apple strives for, and it gets it most of the time, and in that arena, elegance, beats the pants off of all competitors. Elegance is not just something pretty, or just something simple. It's the combination of form and function. And unlike Bang and Olafson (sp?), which takes regular phones, or regular stereos, and makes them really pretty and simple to use, Apple actually creates new tasks, new ways of doing things. iMovie is an example of a new way of making home movies, doesn't use the old techniques of constructing movies
So the iPhone can't be compared to Nokia (or whatever) phones really. It's doing something different. It does that elegantly. It will need to be judged only on its own merits, and consumers will do the voting. Is it too expensive? Is it practical? Will it do something they need? Not, is it a better Nokia, not why is it more expensive than another cell phone that plays mp3's (crappily), not, why doesn't it have a 5 megapixel camera with autofocus and zoom lens.
Our $1,000 per month health care helps bring some parity to these things
Good God!
On the other side, well, at least you have healthcare...
I hate Governments!