iPhone (Germany) to be Announced Next Week?

[megfilmworks]

The iPhone is a problem in most European country's (and canada??) because the 3G unlimited data contracts are nonexistent or extremely expensive, the iPhone needs unlimited data so this may well be the deciding factor to choose the next country's. Maybe not taking 3G because its to expensive.

Here in Belgium the GSM can't be coupled to a 2 year contract and sim-lock is also prohibited by law, guess we'll have to wait for the sim-free version in 2012.

Just got back from Benelux last week and had full functionality (not as good as SoCal, but close) and paid only $24 for 20megs of data (EDGE). Worked better than any phone I have ever taken to Europe, hands down.

 

[bilbo--baggins]

Secondly, Apple will not release a crippled phone in Europe. A lot of people know that Europe is more demanding, and Apple will plan accordingly. Jobs is no fool.

There are tonnes of rumours about O2 in the UK upgrading parts of their network to support EDGE, there are quotes from Steve Jobs saying that 3G components drain batteries too quickly and are too bulky currently to fit into the iPhone (just look at the 3G version of the Razr V3 - it looks ridiculous compared to the original thin version).

Jobs is no fool - but he's taken the tough decision that with current technology available they've opted against a bulky power hungry iPhone and gone with EDGE until they can come up with something better.

According to all the rumours, it is too soon for that 'something better' to be launched - more likely well into 2008.

PS. I currently have the 3G Sony Ericsson M600i - and I would choose the iPhone over this 3G phone any day. In order of importance/frequency of use for me it's 1) making calls 2) calendars/address book 3) web browsing 4) music. Just the nice interface and the ability to sync with iCal and Address book would make me buy the iPhone. Web browsing is so useless on the M600i it really doesn't matter what the theoretical speed is - the screen size is rubbish, the connection reliability is rubbish, the phone itself is slow and unresponsive. Data speed is NOT the most important factor for many people.

 

[Bonte]

Just got back from Benelux last week and had full functionality (not as good as SoCal, but close) and paid only $24 for 20megs of data (EDGE). Worked better than any phone I have ever taken to Europe, hands down.

The service is good here, i won't complain but 20 MB data on the iPhone is nothing. The iPhone uses 10 MB per day when your not using it, let alone surfing the web.

• BASE Data Max
1 GB data included 25 euro per month and 2,5 euro per extra MB
GPRS/EDGE network, not 3G
http://www.base.be/BASE/nl/Home/Professioneel/BASE_Data/page.aspx/2190

Its a small country so roaming is much more of an issue, from 2,50 euro up to 15 euro per MB. This is also GPRS/EDGE.

http://www.base.be/BASE/nl/Home/Professioneel/Data_Roaming/page.aspx/2432

UMTS (3G) is even more expensive, it won't be 3G in Europe!

 

[ngdesign]

3G is overrated here in the states. AT&T's 3G coverage is not anything to write home about.

Here in New York state, there are only 2 places that have 3G coverage, NYC and the Hamptons. The rest of the state is on EDGE. Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse and Albany are all EDGE.

So if the 3G coverage is not there in most states, why should Apple put it into the iPhone?

I'm pretty happy with my 190kbps on EDGE as is because if I need faster speeds I just find myself a WiFi locale in a pinch.

I heard that the USA doesn't use 3G is because of the state security reason, is that correct?

 

[swagi]

Well, maybe worse interface...

And every interface Nokia has made was laughable compared to the iPhone.

Maybe they should stop chatting and start producing phones without horrible interfaces.

...but in case you haven't checked your facts, Nokia phones currently run a WebKit based browser for Symbian (which btw identifies as Safari on Macrumors) that at least can do FLASH!

And I won't brag about all the other business features, Nokia phones have.

Check the E series, check the N series, and then come back flaming.

Back to the topic: No 3G will kill iPhone sales despite its cult status. My 3G coverage in Germany is PERFECT (have yet to suffer from a dead spot), and I'm on O2.

 

[ngdesign]

Err... it's not a phone...



Everyone knows that the US 'cell phone' market stinks.

Japan and Europe are leagues ahead. 3G is almost total in Japan and over in the UK we have 3G in every city and good coverage elsewhere (someone will argue I am sure).

Europe's 3G is still far behind Hong Kong and Taiwan
The Japanese are already so far ahead that they are on iMode and they can buy cheap mobile phone out of the Pay-as-u-go Machines inside tube stations

 

[Blacky]

I'm from Belgium, and apple will have a rough time here, phones aren't alllowed to be bundled with any kind of contract, very phone sold here has to be unlocked. Which is a great thing, selling cellphones and providing cellphone services are entirely different markets that should compete in their own markets. So we can't get cheap(er) phones here from our providers. So either apple skips Belgium or they will have to sell us unlocked phones.

 

[twoodcc]

i think that this will become reality next week (at least an announcement). i just hope more is announced as well.....

 

[shawnce]

I heard that the USA doesn't use 3G is because of the state security reason, is that correct?

This is not true.

 

[Daeve]

No what I prove is that people in Europe [myself included] are used to and quite frankly expect that if they are going to be paying at least £35 a month then they should get a phone of value around £350 for free.

Absolutely, most people I know were quite up for the Iphone in the UK - but not if they have to pay for it on top of a contract fee.

Every phone I've owned since 1997 (one a year) has been *totally free* on a contract, and mostly <£25/month contracts. Currently i can easily get a Nokia N95 totally free on a £30 per month, 12 month contract. No way I'd tie in for 2 years with any phone (as it'd be outdated by then) at £30+ per month AND have to pay full cost for the phone! - it's ridiculous, noone here has ever done that on a contract.

I know a lot will - I'm sure it'll sell and be a qualified sucess, but I don't actually know anyone who will buy one personally, nearly all entered contracts with other phones after the US Iphone launch - put off the Iphone mainly due to no 3G, and cost on top of contract (even my non-tech Mum wanted a 3G phone a year ago). I was probably the most enthusiastic about the Iphone amongst my colleagues, but I'll only buy if its either free or <£100 and no more than £35pm (which is still more than I've ever paid before for a mobile phone!).

 

[CalBoy]

Australia's the same size as the US. We've got a 14.4Mbit HSDPA network that covers over 98.8% of the population and over one quarter of the land mass.

And to top it off it was built in 10 months from concept to completion. An average of one base station activated every 25 minutes, day and night.

There are three other city-only 3.6Mbit HSDPA networks here too.

If it can be done here, it can be done there...

Point well taken; US phone companies are a bit lazy and too greedy. I guess the argument put forth by mobile companies that it would cost too much with little improvement is bull; Australia is nearly the same size and has less than a tenth of the population. If it was profitable there, it can be profitable here as well. Sometimes being an American has its downsides

Jobs is no fool - but he's taken the tough decision that with current technology available they've opted against a bulky power hungry iPhone and gone with EDGE until they can come up with something better.

Which is why I said the phone wouldn't be crippled; I never said it would have 3G

 

[lamadude]

The service is good here, i won't complain but 20 MB data on the iPhone is nothing. The iPhone uses 10 MB per day when your not using it, let alone surfing the web.

Indeed, I HOPE that if the iphone is ever introduced over here (because we are one of the countries where all phones have to be sold unlocked), that it will make the providers give a more reasonable rate for their 3G networks. The infrastructure is there, for example proximus claims they cover 80% of the Belgian population with their 3G network, but what is the point when the data plans are so rediculously expensive.
But the prices on 3G for laptops seem a lot more reasonable, I think that if the iPhone ever gets released here they'll use those prices or go cheaper than those. (40€ for unlimited data, it's not great but it's a start: http://business.proximus.be/nl/Mobile_Internet/index.html)

 

[nemaslov]

Mr Gorbachev, "Tear Down that Wall!"

 

[megfilmworks]

The service is good here, i won't complain but 20 MB data on the iPhone is nothing. The iPhone uses 10 MB per day when your not using it, let alone surfing the web.

I was in Europe for 2 weeks and used my iPhone constantly, visual voicemail,
read the NY Times and LA Times every morning on Safari, Google maps and Weather a few times a day, sent pics I took back to the famiy and friends and when I was at the airport to leave I still had not used my 20 megs. Don't know how you use 10 megs a day, but I had trouble using 2 megs a day. And it does not use data when you don't want (except for visual voicemail file push). That is a silly rumour. I've owned my iPhone since iDay and I can tell you there is a lot of misinformation out there. As far as 3g goes. I hated it on my RAZR, it is a battery hog!! Also I found a lot of free wifi in Amsterdam and Dublin, as well as Groningen.

 

[j763]

No 3G in iPhone would subject Apple to mockery from Europeans. anything other than 3G in Europe is worthless.

Agreed. European consumers are generally a little less taken by shiny boxes - more interested in functionality.

Concerning the price, I can't recall Germany's GST rate, but I remember it being notdisimilar to France's TVA of around 19.6% So, that may explain the price difference.

It's going to be interesting to see what Apple does regarding SIM locking. When the iPhone was released, I was of the immediate view that I was not going to pay AT&T $59.99 a month, when at a flat rate of 10c a minute - no monthly charges - my T-Mobile prepaid account was a much better deal given my usage (I don't make anything near 600 minutes worth of calls a month; often less than 100 - meaning I spend about $100 with T-Mobile USA total every year for network charges - not over $700 like AT&T's asking for), and would simply wait for a European or Aussie unlocked version, eBay it, and an uncrippled version of the phone. Well.... commercially, I don't think forcing people on expensive contracts in addition to paying quite a hefty price upfront will be very successful in Europe as others have pointed out (TCO of the iPhone in the US is still about $2000 on the cheapest plan - which is, of course, over 24 months). And then there are consumer protection laws - in Belgium, for example - which do not allow phones to be sold as SIM-locked.

 

[hotdamn]

Agreed. European consumers are generally a little less taken by shiny boxes - more interested in functionality.

Concerning the price, I can't recall Germany's GST rate, but I remember it being notdisimilar to France's TVA of around 19.6% So, that may explain the price difference.

It's going to be interesting to see what Apple does regarding SIM locking. When the iPhone was released, I was of the immediate view that I was not going to pay AT&T $59.99 a month, when at a flat rate of 10c a minute - no monthly charges - my T-Mobile prepaid account was a much better deal given my usage (I don't make anything near 600 minutes worth of calls a month; often less than 100 - meaning I spend about $100 with T-Mobile USA total every year for network charges - not over $700 like AT&T's asking for), and would simply wait for a European or Aussie unlocked version, eBay it, and an uncrippled version of the phone. Well.... commercially, I don't think forcing people on expensive contracts in addition to paying quite a hefty price upfront will be very successful in Europe as others have pointed out (TCO of the iPhone in the US is still about $2000 on the cheapest plan - which is, of course, over 24 months). And then there are consumer protection laws - in Belgium, for example - which do not allow phones to be sold as SIM-locked.

24 x 60 = 1440 + iPhone is around 400.

If anyone is wondering, the €399 price tag is INCLUDING taxes, 19% that is, in case of germany.

btw, I am a european customer, if you will, (just moved to canada), and my iPhone is currently being shipped here from the US. I couldn't care less about 3G or not. All the 3G phones I had were ****** to begin with.
I'd rather have a phone like the iPhone were the apps actually work the way they are advertised rather than just a feature checklist.

 

[Hero33]

I don't know how you guys on the other side of the world like their tech in their phones but over here, 3G is used pretty often in South East Asia.

The culture of close family ties and relatively reasonable 3G packages make sending MMS videos to family far away common place.

We used to have GPRS, but the tech became old real fast with all the cheap 3G phones flooding the market. Now even our maids carry phones with a camera for sending pictures and/or video with voice.

If its not used for communication, some use it for entertainment. We get a lot of ads that use MMS for local gameshows and trust me, people eat it up!

I'm waiting for the 16 gig iPhone after eeing the relatively dismal 16 gig size of the iPod touch (might as well buy the whole farm with phone built in!).

I really hope 3G is put into the iPhone in Europe as our phone tech is similar to Europe's (GSM, phones etc.)

 

[Bonte]

I was in Europe for 2 weeks and used my iPhone constantly, visual voicemail,
read the NY Times and LA Times every morning on Safari, Google maps and Weather a few times a day, sent pics I took back to the famiy and friends and when I was at the airport to leave I still had not used my 20 megs. Don't know how you use 10 megs a day, but I had trouble using 2 megs a day. And it does not use data when you don't want (except for visual voicemail file push). That is a silly rumour. I've owned my iPhone since iDay and I can tell you there is a lot of misinformation out there. As far as 3g goes. I hated it on my RAZR, it is a battery hog!! Also I found a lot of free wifi in Amsterdam and Dublin, as well as Groningen.

I think you used a lot of wifi, a NY Times page is typically 400k, Gmaps 500k up to 1MB or more and a photo is probably about 1MB. In my own country i do plan on using visual voicemail and push mail, 10 MB per day is nothing.

 

[willybNL]

Europe's 3G is still far behind Hong Kong and Taiwan
The Japanese are already so far ahead that they are on iMode and they can buy cheap mobile phone out of the Pay-as-u-go Machines inside tube stations

May I remind you NTT-DoCoMo tryed to work with KPN in the Netherlands for iMode... nobody bought it. We're not behind, we're just people that like to see it work before we try it. Like WAP: who really uses it, nobody, so why bother. Just get EDGE/UMTS and full internet. But videophone (over UMTS) seems to work just fine over here.

Note that some networks over here already disabled their EDGE network. HSDPA/UMTS = 90% of total country over here. So if it's a non-3G iPhone, it won't be KPN or Telfort in The Netherlands. Nice thing tough: every telecom operator has WiFi on every important corner, and they all work together http://portal.hotspotsvankpn.com/templates/dispatcher.asp?page_id=home_inet_uk

 

[joe8232]

Absolutely, most people I know were quite up for the Iphone in the UK - but not if they have to pay for it on top of a contract fee.

Every phone I've owned since 1997 (one a year) has been *totally free* on a contract, and mostly <£25/month contracts. Currently i can easily get a Nokia N95 totally free on a £30 per month, 12 month contract. No way I'd tie in for 2 years with any phone (as it'd be outdated by then) at £30+ per month AND have to pay full cost for the phone! - it's ridiculous, noone here has ever done that on a contract.

I know a lot will - I'm sure it'll sell and be a qualified sucess, but I don't actually know anyone who will buy one personally, nearly all entered contracts with other phones after the US Iphone launch - put off the Iphone mainly due to no 3G, and cost on top of contract (even my non-tech Mum wanted a 3G phone a year ago). I was probably the most enthusiastic about the Iphone amongst my colleagues, but I'll only buy if its either free or <£100 and no more than £35pm (which is still more than I've ever paid before for a mobile phone!).

Very well said! The fact that the iPhone has all this extra useability is irrelevant. The fact that the Nokia N95 sim free is around £400 and is free on most contracts is the problem apple will have!

 

[aznkid25]

iTunes 8?

Would it be a possibility that iTunes 8 would be released at the Paris Apple Expo? What do you think the chances of this happening?

 

[FiveEcco]

I really hope that the iPhone here in germany will be 3G. We have a very nice UMTS coverage here. And I hope it will hit the stores very soon. I CAN NOT WAIT ANYMORE!!!

 

[winterspan]

RE: 3G Is overrated here in the states...

3G is overrated here in the states. AT&T's 3G coverage is not anything to write home about.

Here in New York state, there are only 2 places that have 3G coverage, NYC and the Hamptons. The rest of the state is on EDGE. Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse and Albany are all EDGE.

So if the 3G coverage is not there in most states, why should Apple put it into the iPhone?

I'm pretty happy with my 190kbps on EDGE as is because if I need faster speeds I just find myself a WiFi locale in a pinch.

Be careful not to generalize. What you mean is UTMS/HSDPA is overrated in the USA. Verizon/Sprint EV-DO 3G coverage is actually pretty good! Now I hate some of the ***** Verizon does with their phones and the unlimited internet price is abhorrent (39.95-59.95 depending on phone vs data card - sprint is $15 I think). Even where my parents live in a city of 30K in North IDAHO they have 3G coverage. Thats why Im SO PISSED OFF Verizon didn't take the deal with APPLE, Verizon is evil, but AT&T is just as bad and has TERRIBLE 3G coverage.

Which begs the question, does anyone know why we are like one of the ONLY fricken countries to use CDMA?

 

[winterspan]

Wrong...

Ugh, sorry, but I hate Nokia interfaces. I used to have a Nokia, and the damn menus drove me crazy. Samsung on the other hand makes nice phones and has good menus. I know I know, off topic, but personally, I would pick a Samsung over a Nokia.

Your post brought up an interesting thought into my head: logistics. Europe and Japan are much smaller than the US in terms of land. I think that factors into newer services being offered. Companies in Europe can lace the landscape with towers to give people service everywhere. The same feat would cost a lot more in the US because of the geography here. Just a thought.

This has been rehashed a thousand times, particulary with respect to wired telecommunications, e.g., "The USA doesn't have good broadband internet speeds cause its cost prohibitive to lay fiber optic cable in the huge land mass". This disinformation is sprayed out there by the telecom monopolies in this country!

Whether its about wired broadband or cellphone technology, the flaw in that argument is that the population density of the top 25 markets (or even top 100) in the United States is quite high, definitely high enough to warrant competitive broadband and cellphone technology. And yet besides the extremely limited rollout of Verizon FIOS, most of us are limited to a DUOPOLY of DSL/Cable for internet with abhorrent speeds for either and ridiculous prices and terms of service.

On the cellphone front, we are hardly any better. Indeed the CDMA 3G coverage isn't too bad in populated areas, but we are still much behind the latest technology and we pay out the **** for what we do get.

I don't mean to jump on you, but Im very passionate about this issue and wish to dispel any misconceptions about why the US is falling so behind in certain technological areas. I mean for GOD **** SAKE, WE BASICALLY DOMINATED THE LAST 40 YEARS OF TECHNOLOGY IN THIS COUNTRY AND NOW LOOK WHATS HAPPENING. The piece of *** corrupt Republican politicians sold us out to the telecoms long ago. I am so sick of that.

Im moving to Tokyo....

</rant>

 

[koobcamuk]

...drain batteries too quickly and are too bulky currently to fit into the iPhone (just look at the 3G version of the Razr V3 - it looks ridiculous compared to the original thin version).

Check it out...

http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?cc=GB&lc=en&ver=4000&template=pip1&zone=pp&pid=10653

Battery life on this thing is amazing - I had one. It's also the thinnest phone I have ever owned.

Comparing a modern phone to the RAZR is not fair. I know americans love the damn thing, but it's over 3 years old now...

Europe's 3G is still far behind Hong Kong and Taiwan
The Japanese are already so far ahead that they are on iMode and they can buy cheap mobile phone out of the Pay-as-u-go Machines inside tube stations

Yes. Japan is far ahead. I totally agree. I am moving there in 3 years anyway...