I'm worried by that statement, I planned to que for my iphone on launch. But if we're only getting minimal shipment here in Japan, I may wait.
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iPhone Japan and Other International Pricing
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Perhaps the figure of $214.6 includes VAT (or its Japanese analogue).
First of all, are you willing to pay AT&T the penalty for terminating your contract early? (By the way, when calculating how much the iPhone will cost you, don't forget that AT&T will charge $36 to activate it.) Second of all, you'll have to rely on the hacker community to unlock a U.S. iPhone. They've been successful with the first-generation iPhone, but you should wait and see how they fare with the iPhone 3G rather than getting one on July 11.
EDIT: I see you previously made a number of posts about the iPhone in other threads, so apologies if the above considerations had already occurred to you.
I don't know where you heard that, but it isn't true at all. At least not in Tokyo - they were showing the original iPhone on TV and every one of the morning show people were oohing and ahhing about it. In my own experience, when I show people my Touch, I get the same reaction - people clamoring to touch the screen and zoom in on pics, etc. It's going to be big here, especially once people see it in action.
That said, I've just got back a visit to the Softbank shop down the street (who promised me they would physically set a 16GB Black iPhone aside for me on the 11th - yay!) and was told by the manager that the iPhone 3G does NOT support emoji, nor does it have MMS. He said he actually got to play with a real unit last week, so he checked that stuff firsthand. I'm sure that glaring omission will turn off quite a few people, even Apple fans. Just how many are willing to overlook it remains to be seen.
I am one in the UK who is more interested in the iphone for its GPS capabilities, but don't use my mobile as a 'phone' much at all.
It will be interesting to see the data charges for the payg option.
It will be interesting to see the data charges for the payg option.
here's the deal with mail.
in japan, mms is actually email. full email. all the phones do it. and every phone has a mail address. above and beyond that, that mail is push. that's right, each and every phone sold in japan now has push email standard. sms is there too, but you can only send it within the same carrier (within softbank, docomo) so in the end you usually ask for a person's mail too.
everyone who says sms is so much better than email has never had push standard. email becomes your mms. and so much more since you send it directly to computers and recieve it as well, full html (normal phones)
deal with softbank is the iphone can't use the normal softbank address (softbank.ne.jp) but they created a new address specifically for the iphone (i.softbank.ne.jp) know what that means? push email. sms, mms, push email problem solved.
and whoever said that you can't see the emoticons in mails shouldn't be worried, that'll probably be taken care of in the update. at the very least softbank, or SOMEBODY will come out with soft for it. i'm using the x01ht right now, and although i installed fonts to use emoticons with the normal outlook, softbank DID make their own mail program for all windows mobile phones called softbank mail so that they can take advantage of the push mail system. all windows mobile phones can use it, touchscreen or no.
and about the packet pricing, it's actually cheaper than smartphones were before. for the longest now smartphones cost around $100 a month for unlimited internet, on top of whatever pricing plan you had, so this is actually a price reduction.
all the features on japanese phones are becoming standard, like tv (oneseg) but it's just features for the sake of features... i live on kyushu and maybe it's just me, but the credit keitai aren't able to be used where i actually shop yet. maybe they're everywhere in tokyo, but even in fukuoka they seem to be at small specialty shops or convenience stores.
all in all, it all comes down to software now. i love sharp phones, and they just came out with one that has all the features of the iphone and more. tv, credit, capacitive touch screen, music, movies, internet... seriously, everything....
thing is, the interface is decidedly slower than the iphone, not as featured, and since the iphone will get apps soon, nowhere near as flexible (apps on phones are generally just what the carrier will allow...)
in japan, mms is actually email. full email. all the phones do it. and every phone has a mail address. above and beyond that, that mail is push. that's right, each and every phone sold in japan now has push email standard. sms is there too, but you can only send it within the same carrier (within softbank, docomo) so in the end you usually ask for a person's mail too.
everyone who says sms is so much better than email has never had push standard. email becomes your mms. and so much more since you send it directly to computers and recieve it as well, full html (normal phones)
deal with softbank is the iphone can't use the normal softbank address (softbank.ne.jp) but they created a new address specifically for the iphone (i.softbank.ne.jp) know what that means? push email. sms, mms, push email problem solved.
and whoever said that you can't see the emoticons in mails shouldn't be worried, that'll probably be taken care of in the update. at the very least softbank, or SOMEBODY will come out with soft for it. i'm using the x01ht right now, and although i installed fonts to use emoticons with the normal outlook, softbank DID make their own mail program for all windows mobile phones called softbank mail so that they can take advantage of the push mail system. all windows mobile phones can use it, touchscreen or no.
and about the packet pricing, it's actually cheaper than smartphones were before. for the longest now smartphones cost around $100 a month for unlimited internet, on top of whatever pricing plan you had, so this is actually a price reduction.
all the features on japanese phones are becoming standard, like tv (oneseg) but it's just features for the sake of features... i live on kyushu and maybe it's just me, but the credit keitai aren't able to be used where i actually shop yet. maybe they're everywhere in tokyo, but even in fukuoka they seem to be at small specialty shops or convenience stores.
all in all, it all comes down to software now. i love sharp phones, and they just came out with one that has all the features of the iphone and more. tv, credit, capacitive touch screen, music, movies, internet... seriously, everything....
thing is, the interface is decidedly slower than the iphone, not as featured, and since the iphone will get apps soon, nowhere near as flexible (apps on phones are generally just what the carrier will allow...)
one more thing, google updated gmail so that all the japanese carrier emoticons work in gmail. globally. it's so cool. now you can send mails with emoticons from japanese phones to friends phones and computers around the world and it shows up in gmail (at least the net version and japanese phones) i like sending emoticons to everyone now...
sh906i
here's docomo's sh906i (softbank has one too)
this thing is like a clamshell iphone. thing is, the software holds it back.
ttp://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=8l9JY0h_EZQ
i have the touch now, and seeing that video made me cringe. taking the day off to get the iphone when it comes out.
and you can only use it in that manner on certain, preplanned screens. like the photo viewer, or the camera. it is still basically made for use as a normal phone, with the touch screen as a partially useful addition.
here's docomo's sh906i (softbank has one too)
this thing is like a clamshell iphone. thing is, the software holds it back.
ttp://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=8l9JY0h_EZQ
i have the touch now, and seeing that video made me cringe. taking the day off to get the iphone when it comes out.
and you can only use it in that manner on certain, preplanned screens. like the photo viewer, or the camera. it is still basically made for use as a normal phone, with the touch screen as a partially useful addition.
That article looks like they did a conversion from the italian price (it's a number I've seen around the forums before). It's probably the right ballpark but O2 have not announced anything yet.
I agree though at that price it's fairly good - OTOH the N95 sim free price is £279 for example (OTOH that's not an *entirely* fair comparison, since the N95 is over a year old now.. the brand new N96 would knock you back £599 (which is a rip IMO)).
I dont think the iphone is ready for japan. They love cameras and the iphone has minimal camera features and a really bad camera to boot (its a good camera by US standards but their phones rival normal digital cameras). Plus when the iphone first came out the japanese reaction was just "so?" If the iphone hasnt taken off in Europe yet how on earth can it take off in Japan?
And can the iphone read these things?
It seems like the japanese live off of scanning those things with their phones. Those codes are on literally everything, signs, websites, food, tv shows... everything.
The iphone just doesnt have what it takes for the japanese lifestyle. If they "evaporate" right away something tells me it wont be a very big shipment.
I think there are some very valid points here. That's not to say that some of those things can be implemented fairly easily though.
And can the iphone read these things?
Yes, they are ubiquitous. No, not a single Japanese cares one bit about those, and most have never even tried scanning them (and a few do not even know they can).
In Tokyo they are. But I insist, only a fraction of geeks use them. Most are afraid of using it and the risks they assume it implies (and I say "assume" because most have not even bothered finding out).
Not too shabby unless you consider the fact that the $70 monthly fee includes no free minutes for voice calls - sure, calls to other Softbank subscribers are free at certain times of the day (from 1am to 9pm), but calls to any other phone in Japan are billed at about $0.40 per minute. No free nights and weekends, etc. Not too shabby? It's NOT EVEN CLOSE to what you guys in the States are getting. Not by a long shot.
Also, existing customers are getting shafted BIG TIME. As I posted in another thread, I just got off the phone with a Softbank customer service rep after inquiring about my account, and my upgrade eligibility. I am 12 months into a two year contract (actually a 27 month contract due to a bit of trickery on Softbank's part) ... My early termination fee will be $450! However, the fun doesn't stop there. Even though I will pay that ETF, I will not qualify for subsidized pricing on the iPhone, as I have not yet been a customer for the full 24 months. I was told that final pricing has not yet been decided, but for other phones, the subsidy in my situation is generally half of what it would be if I were a new customer. WTH??!!
So, to summarize: if you're an existing customer on a contract, you will have to pay a hefty ETF, but will still not qualify for new customer pricing on the iPhone, even though you'll sign a new 24 (actually, 27) month contract for it. The only way to get the 'new customer' pricing is to pay the exorbitant ETF and get a new phone number.
****ing crooks. Am I the only one that sees anything wrong with this picture?!
Not at all. I think this time around Apple has really messed up and i can see them getting a lot of bad publicity with the 3G. Because of the change in money sharing between Apple and phone companies they (phone co.) are now really taking the p**s with this and as usual its the existing customers that get shafted. This isn't anything new i suppose as i had this problem with a basic upgrade a few years ago with O2, its all about getting new people tied down to a 18 month contract and sod the existing customers.
Price plans for Germany's T-Mobile at http://www.t-mobile.de/iphone/showTariffs.do
With UMTS and WiFi Flatrate the big iPhone is Euro 150 plus Euro 50 montly charge, which is about US$ 235 for the phone and US$ 75 per month.
Also there's a note on there that existing customers of t-Mobile can pre-order the iPhone 3G per 1st of July.
With UMTS and WiFi Flatrate the big iPhone is Euro 150 plus Euro 50 montly charge, which is about US$ 235 for the phone and US$ 75 per month.
Also there's a note on there that existing customers of t-Mobile can pre-order the iPhone 3G per 1st of July.
So, to summarize: if you're an existing customer on a contract, you will have to pay a hefty ETF, but will still not qualify for new customer pricing on the iPhone, even though you'll sign a new 24 (actually, 27) month contract for it. The only way to get the 'new customer' pricing is to pay the exorbitant ETF and get a new phone number.
****ing crooks. Am I the only one that sees anything wrong with this picture?!
I've been saying for <i>years</i> now that Japan <i>needs</i> a Better Business Bureau.
I don't feel like saying it again, because I always have to spell-check "bureau".
Seriously, it is <i>mind-boggling</i> how little any Japanese mobile phone carrier -- or retailer -- cares about keeping customers happy. Sherlock <i>Holmes</i> would have a ****in' aneurysm.
Edit: You know what? You should email Steve Jobs / Apple about this. (I'm 99% serious.)
Also, for the record, I am an AU customer with just two months left on my contract.
Hooray. For six weeks, I will be a two-phone man. Just like a yakuza.
Where apple screwed up was by leaving exclusivity in place - you could always get around the new customer/existing customer difference by switching carriers regularly - I've been on them all now more than once. With the iphone you're stuck with the one carrier.
OTOH O2 are allowing existing iphone owners to upgrade within their 18 month contract for free so they're at least trying.
Ideal for me would be a payG iphone with a Simplicity SIM in it. £7.50/mo cheaper than the iphone contract and no minimum term. It remains to be seen whether O2 allow that kind of thing though. Thinking about it though calculating at that saving it'd take 36 months to make up the price difference (or to put it another way, on those figures iphone costs £235 including subsidy).
Not at all. I think this time around Apple has really messed up and i can see them getting a lot of bad publicity with the 3G. Because of the change in money sharing between Apple and phone companies they (phone co.) are now really taking the p**s with this and as usual its the existing customers that get shafted. This isn't anything new i suppose as i had this problem with a basic upgrade a few years ago with O2, its all about getting new people tied down to a 18 month contract and sod the existing customers.
Existing iPhone users can upgrade for free in some cases. Its going to cost me £59 to upgrade from an 8GB iPhone to the 16GB iPhone 3G. Thats GOOD. You can't blame Apple for O2 shafting their own customers using other phones. Thats O2s decision and solely O2s decision. Apple would gladly have those customers on board.
For the record i wasn't saying Apple is shafting their customers, im saying O2 is! O2 cares more for getting new customers then keeping their old ones. I've been with O2 for 5 years and everytime i try and upgrade its a hassle. I just cant be arsed with changing my number again! But yes, you're right you can just change carrier but i think thats one of the reasons they don't care for existing customers as they know they've got them for a minimum of 18 months and after that they know they'll probably go off to someone else.
Im also hoping i can go the PAYG route, but instead of putting in a Simplicity SIM i can put in my existing one, of which i have approx 7 months left. Then i'll change it to a monthly plan that includes unlimited data.
Who here thinks this will work? Or will the iphone PAYG be tied to new SIM?
Just (very) quickly thinking of the prices, and i know its been covered here before, but stay with me on this! Its £99 for a contract 8gb iphone with a £35p/m plan. If you stuck to your minutes and texts over the 18 months it'll be £729. So looking at this £350 for PAYG for the same phone is not bad. By my calculations if you spent less than £21 per month on topping up then its slightly less than contract. This is the BIG question though, and probably why O2 haven't yet released any PAYG prices is that if they charge you a lot for topping up and/or unlimited bolt on, then it could work out more expensive!
Lets say your contract runs out in feb 2009 on your non 1st gen iphone. What would O2 do you took out a new contract and number, ran two contracts, then you wanted to cancel both in feb 2009? You would be 7 months into your 2nd gen iphone contract. I take it they would charge you for every month left on your contract at the monthly rate you were on. By my reckoning it would be £385 (if your on a £35pm tariff), which equals £484.
So, cheaper to do a contract and then cancel than the PAYG option?
Any thoughts??
What you have to remember is that they have subsidised you when you take out a new contract with a cut price or free phone. The only way they can make money on you as a customer is if you honour the life of the contract or at least 90% of it.
What you are asking for is essentially for O2 to lose money by letting you upgrade to the iPhone early. Its not that they dont care about their customers, more that they just don't want to lose money on them. And at the end of the day you did sign up to the contract.
I understand its frustrating for existing users to see new users get good deals, but when you think about it, it makes perfect sense. They aren't looking to lose money.
Agreed, o2 are a business and need to make their money back. Now this will be interesting when the iPhone revision 3 launches to see if existing customers will be able to break out or will we have to honour our contracts?
Again, for the record i managed to not go for the 1st gen iphone, but i've buckled now! So im not one of the many iphone users that are in their 1st 12 months of an iphone contract wanting to get hold of the 2nd gen.
This one will be my first iphone but im still with an 18 month O2 contract. My route is the PAYG option, but also in another post on this thread (see a couple above) i have mentioned the possibility of starting a 2nd contract for the 2nd gen, then canceling early and the cost differences between that and PAYG.
And yes, i do understand the economics of phone companies and new customers against older customers wanting to upgrade.