iPhone Japan and Other International Pricing

[Project]

Agreed, o2 are a business and need to make their money back. Now this will be interesting when the iPhone revision 3 launches to see if existing customers will be able to break out or will we have to honour our contracts?

I suspect it will be the latter.

And thats the one main thing on my mind when its pretty much a given that there will be a 32GB iPhone by fall.

 

[a456]

Which to choose PAYG or

Ignore this post, see below.


Let's do some maths on the Pay & Go ownership of an iPhone on the theoretical price of £370 for the 8 GB. You have two options one pay the £30 a month and £99 for a phone 18 month contract: Total cost £459.

Now minus the £370 from the £459 = £89. Now divide that

 

[a456]

Which to choose.

Let's do some maths on the Pay & Go ownership of an iPhone on the theoretical price of £370 for the 8 GB. You have two options one pay the £30 a month and £99 for a phone 18 month contract: Total cost £459.

Now minus the £370 from the £459 = £89. Now divide that by the 18 months = £4.94

Result: if you are going to spend less than £4.94 a month on the phone in the first 18 months buy the Pay & Go version - if not go for the £30 month plan and enjoy the unlimited data.

 

[moniker]

So much for the $199 US MAX Jobs said at WWDC.

I know he said $199 worldwide, but please bear min mind that when American companies speak of "worldwide" they really mean "throughout all the American states".

The real wide world is a different concept. Then they speak of EMEA (Europe, Middle East and Africa -- 2 1/2 continents!), Asia, Oceania and so on. Worldwide very often means the USA.

 

[TonyHoyle]

Im also hoping i can go the PAYG route, but instead of putting in a Simplicity SIM i can put in my existing one, of which i have approx 7 months left. Then i'll change it to a monthly plan that includes unlimited data.

Who here thinks this will work? Or will the iphone PAYG be tied to new SIM?

I can't see O2 really caring, since they'd be getting your money anyhow, and the PayG isn't likely to have much (if any) subsidy.

What would O2 do you took out a new contract and number, ran two contracts, then you wanted to cancel both in feb 2009? You would be 7 months into your 2nd gen iphone contract. I take it they would charge you for every month left on your contract at the monthly rate you were on. By my reckoning it would be £385 (if your on a £35pm tariff), which equals £484.

So, cheaper to do a contract and then cancel than the PAYG option?

Any thoughts??

Just before cancelling drop to the £30/mo option. Then you'd only pay for the remaining months at that rate, meaning the charge would be £330 to cancel, plus 7 months you paid for at £35 (£245), plus £99.

That gives you a total of £674

If you don't make many calls it may be cheaper to use the £30/mo option from the start, dropping the total to £639

Assuming a max. price of PayT of £399 plus Simplicity Tariff + Data at £22.50 a month for 7 months the total cost is £556.50

So it's still cheaper to do it that way around.

Of course if you're going to run the iphone for the full 18 months it works out a *much* better deal to be on the contract - but then that's the way O2 have structured it, deliberately. The break even point is at about 11/12 months by my calculation.

 

[captain kaos]

What to choose....

Let's do some maths on the Pay & Go ownership of an iPhone on the theoretical price of £370 for the 8 GB. You have two options one pay the £30 a month and £99 for a phone 18 month contract: Total cost £459.

Now minus the £370 from the £459 = £89. Now divide that by the 18 months = £4.94

Result: if you are going to spend less than £4.94 a month on the phone in the first 18 months buy the Pay & Go version - if not go for the £30 month plan and enjoy the unlimited data.

Ok, so maths wasnt my best subject at GSCE! But arent these prices wrong?

8gb contract = £99. Plus 18 months at £30 = 540. Total = £639.
8gb PAYG = £370. £639 - £370 = £269. £269/18 = £14.94.

tell me if im wrong on this??!

So by this reasoning if you spend more than £15 per month then the contract is the way forward. The grey area is what O2 will come up with for PAYG "web bolt ons".

 

[captain kaos]

I can't see O2 really caring, since they'd be getting your money anyhow, and the PayG isn't likely to have much (if any) subsidy.



Just before cancelling drop to the £30/mo option. Then you'd only pay for the remaining months at that rate, meaning the charge would be £330 to cancel, plus 7 months you paid for at £35 (£245), plus £99.

That gives you a total of £674

If you don't make many calls it may be cheaper to use the £30/mo option from the start, dropping the total to £639

Assuming a max. price of PayT of £399 plus Simplicity Tariff + Data at £22.50 a month for 7 months the total cost is £556.50

So it's still cheaper to do it that way around.

Of course if you're going to run the iphone for the full 18 months it works out a *much* better deal to be on the contract - but then that's the way O2 have structured it, deliberately.

Yeah, the more i work it out the more the PAYG option is the better route, especially as i dont want to be signing up to another 18 month contract!

Also i hope they don't care about me using my existing O2 SIM with it as i understand that the PAYG price is pretty much unsubsidised. Then i can carry on paying my contract amount and just add an unlimited web bolt on.

I just wish they would release the flippin PAYG prices, its driving me nuts!

 

[TonyHoyle]

Ok, so maths wasnt my best subject at GSCE! But arent these prices wrong?

8gb contract = £99. Plus 18 months at £30 = 540. Total = £639.
8gb PAYG = £370. £639 - £370 = £269. £269/18 = £14.94.

tell me if im wrong on this??!

So by this reasoning if you spend more than £15 per month then the contract is the way forward. The grey area is what O2 will come up with for PAYG "web bolt ons".

Yes, that's about right. Remember you're going to want a data plan, which O2 currently charge £7.50/mo for. That means if you spend more than £7.50 a month on calls/SMS it's better to go with the contract ('better' is subjective of course.. 18 months is a long lockin period).

If O2 charge for things like visual voicemail on PayG (like they do with the business tariffs - there's an 'iphone bolt-on' for it) then the calculation changes again.

 

[captain kaos]

Yes, that's about right. Remember you're going to want a data plan, which O2 currently charge £7.50/mo for. That means if you spend more than £7.50 a month on calls/SMS it's better to go with the contract ('better' is subjective of course.. 18 months is a long lockin period).

If O2 charge for things like visual voicemail on PayG (like they do with the business tariffs - there's an 'iphone bolt-on' for it) then the calculation changes again.

I know, this is what's so annoying with the PAYG price wait. Im hoping they dont take the p**s with charging for using all the nice iphone facilities (visual voicemail, etc), they whole reason why people want the iphone! I bet they do as a way of pushing people towards the contract phones.

If they do then it really will make PAYG and unreasonable option. They do mention on the O2 site how all the nice features of the iphone are now coming to PAYG, but i can see that being technically right, but it will extra!

Im kind of jealous of my mate who bought a 1st gen in Las Vagas back in October 2007, at which point i didnt fancy the iphone i just bought a 16gb touch, how stupid a move that was!) We hacked it in the hotel to run his orange SIM card, then when he came back here he just got the O2 Simplicity Sim. That of course could be the only route now, getting a 1st gen off ebay and jailbreak it, although ironically they aren't cheap either!

 

[ruku]

7000 yen a month is nutty. softbank are known for their white plan of 1000 yen a month with the free calls included too. where is the other 6000 a month going? i can guess where some of it is going but bloody hell its too rich for my tastes. looks like i have to back up my enthusiasm on getting a new toy. if it were able to be bought outright or even on a lower plan but with a somewhat higher original outlay then id reconsider.
phooey cats spewy!

 

[jonnylink]

we'll see how japan adopts the iphone now since their phones are usually crammed with way more features than we have. will probably take off, but i wonder how a phone without picture messaging or a smart phone without disk mode or document editing will be. it's a step back 5 years in the u.s., prob a decade in japan.

Document editing? Not here in Japan. Not in most phones in the US either, even the smart ones don't really have it (some got it last year[1]). Smart phones aren't big in Japan. We have smaller phones that are used mostly for email, calls, and cameras here.

Who's to say document editing won't happen in the iPhone 2 anyway? Unless you've somehow stepped into the future and seen all the apps that people will make.

Hooray. For six weeks, I will be a two-phone man. Just like a yakuza.

Or like a high school girl

 

[Joe The Dragon]

So much for the $199 US MAX Jobs said at WWDC.

that is the pre tax price and out side of the us there are taxes that are higher then they are in the us.

 

[66217]

The Mexican numbers don't look right. For one thing, the maximum purchase price with a contract is too high. More damning, though, is the fact that the post-tax prices are the same as the pre-tax prices in local currency, but not in U.S. currency.

You gotta hate Telcel. They are extremely expensive and the worst is they don't have any serious competition.

One thing that is for sure is that you can get the iPhone in any plan. You are not restricted to getting one specific plan to get the iPhone. I think this is rather cool, seeing that in the US you are restricted to certain plans.

 

[samab]

You gotta hate Telcel. They are extremely expensive and the worst is they don't have any serious competition.

One thing that is for sure is that you can get the iPhone in any plan. You are not restricted to getting one specific plan to get the iPhone. I think this is rather cool, seeing that in the US you are restricted to certain plans.

But those AT&T iphone plans --- are the same price as their regular priced voice plans and regular priced PDA data plans.

There is no slight of hand in the American plans --- what you see is what you get.

 

[samab]

Where apple screwed up was by leaving exclusivity in place - you could always get around the new customer/existing customer difference by switching carriers regularly - I've been on them all now more than once. With the iphone you're stuck with the one carrier.

OTOH O2 are allowing existing iphone owners to upgrade within their 18 month contract for free so they're at least trying.

Ideal for me would be a payG iphone with a Simplicity SIM in it. £7.50/mo cheaper than the iphone contract and no minimum term. It remains to be seen whether O2 allow that kind of thing though. Thinking about it though calculating at that saving it'd take 36 months to make up the price difference (or to put it another way, on those figures iphone costs £235 including subsidy).

Look at Italy ---- 2 carriers selling the iphone --- nothing changed. It's still very expensive.

 

[66217]

But those AT&T iphone plans --- are the same price as their regular priced voice plans and regular priced PDA data plans.

There is no slight of hand in the American plans --- what you see is what you get.

I'm not sure I understood what you said in the last sentence, but here you also get what you see, the only difference being it is more expensive than in the US.

We have yet to see what plans go official here. But nonetheless, expecting that we were going to receive the same prices as in the US was extremely optimist.

 

[shigzeo]

japan not ready

i don't think japan is ready for the iphone. japanese phones have every sort of gadget already built in: so you can have your life wherever you go. they are terrible for interface, often requiring someone who owns a phone from the same company a trip to the manual to discover how to simply send an infared post. or receive one.

free for most of the day to other softbank users: but that means that the other 70 or 80% of phones will still come at ridiculous prices for chat time. a plan of 7280 en in japan will cost 10 000 per month or more. i use my phone for no where near my 25 minutes per month at its price of 1900 en per month and rarely use it for email or anything but have never paid less than 3533 per month.

a phone that is a phone cannot make it in japan: phones for mobile use are unless business: way too much money. if this thing cannot maintain worst usability ever, overspec and too many features, it will not last.

 

[djellison]

it's cheaper than the £449 for the Nokia.

And £201 more expensive than a 16Gb iPod Touch.

£250 more expensive than ANY phone available on PAYG with Orange, and barely shy of being twice as expensive as ANY other phone available with O2.

Apple bleating on about 'Twice as fast, Half the Price'.

No sale. Get a 16 Gb iPod Touch, which isn't made entirely of plastic, spend £150 an a cell phone with a MUCH better camera, MMS, proper Bluetooth, and still be saving money.

Doug

 

[Neutral Gamer]

Defending the iPhone

£250 more expensive than ANY phone available on PAYG with Orange, and barely shy of being twice as expensive as ANY other phone available with O2.

With all due respect Doug, you need to do some research about the mobile phone market in the UK before posting such alarmist statements. Who do you work for, Nokia, Motorola?

Most mobile operators only have a limited number of phones available on Pay As You Go and the maximum they charge is around the £200-250 mark. The more expensive handsets you have to buy elsewhere if you want them SIM free. The reason for this is that people buying PAYG phones have a smaller budget and can't afford the monthly bill. Hence the operator knows that there's not much point selling these high end phones on PAYG as they're way over budget for their target market.

With this point in mind, if you look at the high end SIM free phones from competitors available from places such as The Carphone Warehouse and various websites, you'll see the iPhone DOES compare more than favourably with them. A lot of which can reach the £500-600 mark and above. Saying the iPhone is more expensive than any other PAYG phone on Orange or o2 is a flawed statement because they're not directly putting ALL of their phones up for sale as PAYG in the first place!

But they made a special case for the iPhone 3G, no doubt cos they expected it be pretty popular.

No sale. Get a 16 Gb iPod Touch, which isn't made entirely of plastic, spend £150 an a cell phone with a MUCH better camera, MMS, proper Bluetooth, and still be saving money.

What's your point though? You could go one better and get a cheap digital camera that would easily own your camera phone as well as an MP3 player with larger storage and add a small and stylish mobile phone etc. etc.

But the whole point of a device such as the iPhone is to offer convergence. People don't want to carry multiple devices around with them in the limited space in their pockets and have to remember to take them everytime they leave the house.

Convergence = Convenience - Compromise.

No product is perfect (although some may argue the 12" PowerBook comes pretty close ... ) and there will always be some features that are missing or not fully implemented. Personally, I wish Apple had improved the quality of the camera but reading the forums it seems that most other people are able to accept this limitation with it being offset by all the other features and most importantly the superior user interface.

The iPhone isn't for everyone in the same way the MacBook Air isn't for everyone. That's why I bought a Sony VAIO TZ instead of an MBA and why I'm waiting for the HTC Touch Diamond/Pro or Sony Ericsson XPERIA instead of an iPhone 3G. BUT that doesn't mean I begrudge anyone who does buy the iPhone and why I'm defending it right now!

We're all different and have different needs and wants, right?
If you don't like it, don't buy it.

 

[samab]

I'm not sure I understood what you said in the last sentence, but here you also get what you see, the only difference being it is more expensive than in the US.

We have yet to see what plans go official here. But nonetheless, expecting that we were going to receive the same prices as in the US was extremely optimist.

I was responding to your comment that the iphone is restricted to certain plans in the US. That is not the case at all --- because the US iphone plan is the combination of their regular price voice plan with their regular price PDA data plan.

There is no restriction at all.

 

[EdRossignol]

Bah, seems like a scam to me... $199 thats £100 what is going on with these numbers.

Give us proper figures at WWDC Jobs, not lies.

Over priced still.

 

[MrSmith]

7,280 yen? We have 3 Softbank phones for about the same. Maybe they'll be special plans in place (I cuurently forgo Internet access, but why would I want to access it on my phone?). Is this aimed at the single crowd or something?

 

[mavis]

I cuurently forgo Internet access, but why would I want to access it on my phone?

Wow, have you been living under a rock or something? 'Why would someone want to access the internet on an iPhone?' I don't even know where to begin to answer that!

 

[TonyHoyle]

Look at Italy ---- 2 carriers selling the iphone --- nothing changed. It's still very expensive.

You missed the point. If there are two carriers you can be a new customer with the other one - meaning you get all the new customer benefits. Upgrade pricing is for mugs (yes I really want to pay £100 for that phone you're giving to new customers for free... not..).

The iphone is somewhat a special case in that previously it wasn't subsidised so all current owners get 'new customer' pricing. At least this year...

 

[MrSmith]

Wow, have you been living under a rock or something? 'Why would someone want to access the internet on an iPhone?' I don't even know where to begin to answer that!

Shock! Horror! Using it because it's there and having to use it are different things. I had it before and it served no purpose at all. True, I don't have to waste time commuting, but if I did I'd rather sleep or listen to music.