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Look, I am a much of an Apple loyalist as they come, but hard to see the correlation between "Holds Strong" and losses in every country.

What I would like to know, what is going on with Windows phone in Europe? Nice job MS!
Here in Belgium I do see quite a lot of Nokia Lumia's around. One major point for many consumers is price, and Lumia's are quite cheap. My father's firm has also recently started distributing a Samsung WP8 device to its employees, to streamline desktops, tablets and phones.


As for Apple's marketshare dropping - I think the major issue is still the price. I mean - an iPhone 4S brand new costs 399 euros. This device is almost 3 years old - iOS 7 isn't the smoothest on this and I'm guessing in the near future many apps will become unavailable for this device (my dad had an iPad 1st gen, stuck on iOS 5 you really can't do much). Whilst I bought a brand new Android phone, high end (Nexus 5), 16GB, for 365 euros...

Don't get me wrong, I like Apple and its simplicity, and I've always said I wanted an iPhone from the second iteration, but in the end it's a lot of money for a phone, whilst an Android device is cheaper for a high-end device. I was concerned about Android at first, it is pretty confusing with the settings - sometime the volume rocker edits the media volume even though no media is playing, glitches like that - but the setup of the phone was such a breeze (Google Music = heaven! No 5 million hour sync with iTunes).
 
Thanks for showing that you made up the claim and that continuing the conversation with you would be a waste of time. When you can pout a single proof that Android steals information, write it, until then, have a nice day

Using Android without Google apps is worse than using iPhone without Apple apps and everyone knows that Google uses your information.
 
I feel like it it doesn't makes sense to compare all iPhones with all Android phones. Maybe one particular iPhone compared with with one particular Android (iPhone 5 vs. Samsung Galaxy 3) but not the entire lineup of androids vs. iPhones.

Exactly, the point of view is of significance here. In terms of ecosystem and developers the market share is relevant when measured Android vs iOS vs Windows.

In terms of hardware sales it makes sense to compare Samsung, Apple, Motorola, HTC etc..

In terms of (flagship) phone sales it makes sense to compare iPhone 5 to HTC one, Samsung Galaxy 4, Moto X etc..
 
Have you ever tried to use an Android device these day's without Google's Apps -- it's pretty much a brick otherwise.

Maybe 'steal' is the wrong word maybe not..

http://business.time.com/2013/03/13/did-google-get-off-easy-with-7-million-wi-spy-settlement/
http://www.3news.co.nz/Google-in-br...chdog/tabid/412/articleID/323360/Default.aspx
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/12/20/spain-fines-google-over-privacy-breaches/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...million-compensation-over-privacy-breach.html

The list goes on and on -- they have been caught many times trying to get around and get information they shouldn't be. Unless you run a rooted Android phone without any of Google's apps some of you're information will eventually get gathered and analysed, their entire business relies on nothing less than connecting the dots between your connected history to serve more targeted ads.

And you think this isn't being done on your iOS device? Lemme have a bit of what your smoking .. cause it's good stuff apparently.
 
So with all that market share iOS is still the primary developer platform and almost none of the Android OEMs are even making money off their products. So someone tell me what the advantage of that is again?

This isn't even a case of Windows vs. Mac where Windows gets almost all the primary support and favoritism from software developers. It seems that Android market share is just a nice looking number to discuss. No benefits to the hardware makers or devs.

Ever notice that the vast majority of Android OEMs never release sales numbers? This is likely because sales are so low that they'd rather them not be made public. This makes it difficult to determine how many are buying high end handsets and how many are buying low end sub $150 handsets that are used as glorified dumb phones with internet capability. I'd venture to say such handsets make up the majority of this great market share which is probably a reason developers still prefer iOS.

Android still has a long way to go before Apple has to worry about them competing on the high end which actually matters. Even Samsung is having trouble maintaining profits without its massive marketing spending.
 
Exactly, the point of view is of significance here. In terms of ecosystem and developers the market share is relevant when measured Android vs iOS vs Windows.

In terms of hardware sales it makes sense to compare Samsung, Apple, Motorola, HTC etc..

In terms of (flagship) phone sales it makes sense to compare iPhone 5 to HTC one, Samsung Galaxy 4, Moto X etc..
I would not include the HTC one because was hit with so many patent infringements, Apple makes more off of the HTC one than HTC.
 
One thing I think is good to mention here:

Apple does not play in the cheap phone market. I know when I was in high school, most people I knew had the FREE or dollar phones. They were always really popular.

When Apple first came into the smartphone market, the smartphone market was a premium market. So lets say 100% of the smartphone market is premium. That means Apple has the potential to grab 100% of the smartphone market. As smartphones have become more popular and reach saturation around the world, the percentage of the smartphone market that is considered premium keeps going down. So, lets say Apple consistently grabs 70% of the premium market. Lets look at this completely made up and bogus table that will help me prove my point:

year | premium | iPhone
2007 | 100% | 70%
2008 | 95% | 68.5%
2009 | 80% | 56%
2010 | 60% | 42%
2011 | 55% | 38.5%

If you were to say this is a true representation, Apple has kept a steady 70% market share in the premium market, but in 4 years, its overall smartphone market share has been cut in HALF. All those people who used to buy the free phones were initially not counted in the smartphone sales numbers because all the free phones were dumbphones. Now, all the free phones are Android. Since it has Android on it, its (for the most part) considered a smartphone.

Its natural for Apple to continue to loose market share as the smartphone market reaches saturation. However, it still is not a good thing that Apple is loosing market share. Also, I am sure with these numbers, Apple is loosing part of the premium market too. Apple should only worry when its loosing market share in the premium market. That figure is not shown here.

Another thing to note: I think once saturation hits, the premium smartphone market will be bigger than the premium cellphone market before smartphones so that should work in Apple's favor.
 
lol majority of people buy iPhones because they are premium/expensive. How many people are going to understand that you going to get the same android experience from a Moto X versus a S-4 or S5

True as of today but once they have a choice between a $179 phone and a $649 one that does the same things albeit while looking only a little better it isn't very hard to see more and more people making the cheaper choice.

With PCs it's different in that not many PC makers make decent hardware software combo - Apple has the better hardware and software combo by a long shot. And yet Apple still struggles in that market. If Moto continues their cheap yet decent strategy it could get very problematic for the expensive/so called premium phone makers in a subsidy free market.
 
Amusing to see people on either side (why there are sides for a mere consumer product I'll never understand) trying to divine ultimate meaning in these numbers.

Look, this is ONE data point. One really insignificant data point because, if anything, it confirms status quo. It's no surprise that Android has world marketshare. It's also no surprise that iOS users use more data, buy more apps and shop more w/ their phones. And it's just reality that as more and more Android phones come into the marketplace the iPhone's share will get diluted. But sometimes it's more about the quality of the marketshare, not just the volume. That why this ONE data point has no meaning in and of itself. It neither a call for a victory lap or a raising of the white flag for either OS.
 
True as of today but once they have a choice between a $179 phone and a $649 one that does the same things albeit while looking only a little better it isn't very hard to see more and more people making the cheaper choice.

With PCs it's different in that not many PC makers make decent hardware software combo - Apple has the better hardware and software combo by a long shot. And yet Apple still struggles in that market. If Moto continues their cheap yet decent strategy it could get very problematic for the expensive/so called premium phone makers in a subsidy free market.


On top of this, new iterations of phones are offering less compelling reasons to upgrade than they once have. People used to buy a new computer every couple of years, now many are just buying them when they need to. Same can happen with Smartphones too. Why spend $649 for a slightly better screen or camera when your current phone works fine?
 
BlackBerry

Most interesting to me is the utter collapse of BlackBerry. Here in Canada they are all Gung Ho for BalckBerries big come back. the stock even rose from ~$5 to nearly $10 in the last couple of weeks, but this data just shows that they are in a free fall. It's interesting the compare these hard numbers to the Chauvinistic gainsaying in the Canadian press. So last week the Pentagon announced that they were going to allow staff to use BlackBerries to connect to their networks. Woo hooo, big bloody deal and the stock climbed steeply. It doesn't mean that anyone will actually be using them.

BlackBeerry will be gone, kaput, dead, within two years, probably less. (And if I said that on a Canadian board, like CBC comments I'd be called a Fandroid, Sheeple, or even a traitor.)
 
Seems to mirror what's happening with people I know...

Last year, for the first time I noticed many of my friends moving away from iPhones rather than switching to them. I think frustration about many things like flaky iMessaging and reliance on a still-poor iTunes (especially on PC) is part to blame but not all.

The iPhone is stale, people DO want bigger screens now, they're used to them - gee whizz it's got a 64 bit processor on the 5S but no-one outside of Geek World cares or notices, the average phone buyer now wants something that does the job they want it to do well and three people I know in the last few months have switched to Galaxy S4's.

The iPhone simply needs to move with the trends a bit more, Apple just need to stop being so smug and offer better computer software (replace iTunes with something simple and slick), fix all the weird messaging issues that myself and many people I know seem to have and at least give the option of a larger version (curve the back like the iPad's when they do as well!).
 
In Europe many phones are sold without contract. iPhone 4S costs 350-400 euros, which definitely is not in the cheap phone category.

Honestly I wish that was the case in the US as well. I wish I the contract model was less popular, and that carriers actually offered low priced plans, similar to what is available in Europe.

It's not free, it is subsidised, very different.
And keeping a former high end phone on the market is not the same as entering the low end market.

Also, Apple doesn't touch razor thin markets. In fact it is always making 25% margins. I believe no one else comes close.

So you are saying keeping an older technology phone in production is vastly different than producing a brand new model of similar specification (using older technology processors, and screen tech) at a similar price?

I fully agree that subsidized is very different, however many consumers (at least in the US) don't appear consider that. I can't think of any time when someone (including many people on MacRumors) discuss the actual cost of their phone.

What I mean is, The price that comes to mind for most people, when asked how much their phone cost. In the US, you will likely get the cost they paid when they picked up their phone, and renewed their contract. Most will not consider the purchase price + whatever their contract cost over the 2 years (or whatever term they chose).
 
Marketshare shows little value these days, both platforms exist and will exist for many many many years to come.

Things we can guarantee on in the next 5 years at least:

* One will *always* carry a premium price
* One will *always* attempt to steal as much of your information as possible
* One will always be a more profitable ( margin wise ) to their owners
* Both will always exist

* One will *always* be the lead platform for app developers. As the numbers sway more and more that platform will be Android. Your going to see more releases their first and second rate ports on ios.
 
If you were to say this is a true representation, Apple has kept a steady 70% market share in the premium market, but in 4 years, its overall smartphone market share has been cut in HALF. All those people who used to buy the free phones were initially not counted in the smartphone sales numbers because all the free phones were dumbphones. Now, all the free phones are Android. Since it has Android on it, its (for the most part) considered a smartphone.

It's hard to take you seriously when you use a qualifier that a free phone is "for the most part" a smartphone because it's free.

Does it run a Android or not? If it does, it's a smartphone regardless of the price. I've seen lots of 5C's being given away for free during recent times, so should we conclude that it almost doesn't make smartphone ranks because of the price?
 
If Apple sells more units every quarter in every category they are in wouldn't that be enough growth?

Current growth is due to a growing smart phone market, as consumers switch from basic phones to smart phones. As the smart phone market approaches saturation, that growth will slow. I don't see how Apple can continue to lose marketshare and still enjoy growth in a saturated market.

No need for the aggressiveness. I don't remember ridiculing your comment.

If you want me to respond to your posts and have a discussion than please try to stay civilsed. You can see in my comment history that I usually respond in a kind matter and explain my opinions in detail based on fact.

Fair comment. Upon rereading both our comments I agree, it wasn't fair to make character assessments like that. I apologise.

A for-profit company's objective is to make as fat margins as it can. Any profit after expense belongs to shareholders, not customers. I think you are confusing Apple with a co-op.

Okay, firstly, I don't subscribe to free market fundamentalism. You might be surprised to know that I myself am a business owner, and I understand the importance of profit—however, it is not the be-all and end-all. Every business is made up of humans, and every decent human that I've ever met is driven by more than just money. Putting a corporate wrapper around people doesn't instantly negate everything else that drives and motivates those people—at least it shouldn't! Again, I point you (and others) back to the previous articles about the Mac design team. If you believe what they say, they were driven by other things—like the desire to create a product that they themselves would want to buy and use, the desire to see ordinary (not just wealthy) people empowered to do awesome stuff with it, the desire to create a 'computer for the rest of us'. I put it to you that Apple would never have become what it did had those driving values not been at the heart of the creative process. Now Apple advertising would have us believe that these goals are STILL at the heart of Apple. But hey, I wasn't born yesterday—I realise that much advertising is pure unadulterated BS. (I once worked in advertising!) :)

Secondly, I haven't (as I've been accused of here) suggested that Apple give back to customers as pure charity. I've suggested that this period was a critical one for establishing one's company in the smart phone market before it becomes saturated. I believe it would be in Apple's long-term interests to maintain a healthy marketshare at the expense of some short-term profit. You and others are entitled to disagree on that point of course.

As the chart at the top of the thread demonstrates, people are not forced to by Apple products. If enough don't buy then the company has to adjust the product line, pricing, or both, to draw in customers; i.e., lower margins. But it's not a goal of any profitable enterprise to decrease prices just to give customers a breather from high prices. If Apple wasn't selling product it wouldn't be taking in income. If that were the case would you feel as sorry for Apple as you do irritation now?

Mate, I was an Apple fan through the 90s. I lived through constant rumours and speculation of Apple's demise. Did I feel sorry for them? Actually, I was just kind of fearful that I wouldn't be able to keep using the platform I loved! I seriously would have considered a change of career had I been forced to use Windows at the time. So I suspect, by your comment, that you have me pegged wrong.

Again, I never said the goal of lowering prices should be purely altruistic. I think it makes good business sense when your marketshare is dwindling and you're sitting on an absolute mountain of cash.
 
It's not surprising that iOS has horrible numbers in less wealthy countries.

The iPhone has horrible numbers in more wealthy countries as well.

It's all about the upfront price. The iPhone sells best wherever it is subsidized to be the same price as other phones. No doubt the same goes for higher priced devices from any company.

These cheap phones are what is causing Apple to "lose" market share. For every iPhone Apple sells, probably 10 or more <$100 Android smartphones are sold (off-contract ofcourse). Today it's maybe 10, tomorrow it could be 20.

Cheap phones are not the majority. There are tons of middle range phones as well, many with decent specs.

price-range-sales-by-band.jpg

The fact is, it doesn't cost that much to make a decent smartphone these days. Just look at the Xiaomi flagship phones that sell for around $300.
 
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