Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
From a business standpoint (maybe not the idiot goons on Wall Street) making more profit selling fewer items is better. REAL business is not about getting the highest score, its about making the best RETURN on the money your investors give you. That's why Apple's stock is crazy high priced.
You're right, except that Apple's stock is crazy low priced. The P/E is much lower when compared to other tech companies.
 
Okay, but be fair—I also argued that I thought it would be in Apple's best long-term interests to have chased a larger chunk of the market with more competitive prices. Sometimes a shareholder, or even a board of directors, can lose sight of the big picture while chasing short-term profits.

Really, the profit-making objectives of a large public company are not that much different to a small private company. BOTH wish to make a healthy profit! Apple has its shareholders to feed—I have my family!

On Point 1: but to what end... to just chase marketshare? Marketshare is not the end all and be all metric. BMW's marketshare in 2008 was blip to Pontiac's. The goal is to make the most money the most efficient way. Sometimes that is by customer volume at the expense of low margins other times it's making an at least perceive "premium" product and selling at the top of the market at the expense of sales volume. I don't think savvy BODs or executive lose sight of those choices because when they do they most often fail. I can list off a dozen high profile "volume strategy" companies that are now no longer.

On Point 2: Yes, the concept is the same broadly, but you as a privately held business owner have a lot more flexibly legally and fiducially to shareholders, than does a BOD or executives in publicly held company. That is my point. There is no softening the edges here anymore than comparing a Chevy Malibu to a Maserati Quattroporte (and all the headaches that come with the latter).
 
Apple fans are turning into Gollum.

Marketshare is the false. They stole it from us. Sneaky little Androids. Wicked, tricksy, false!

Your statements, are in order: False and an insult. Absolutely true apart for the spelling; for some reason market share in the phone market is never published. Made up. Would be insulting if Apple fans said that, but they don't. Quite stupid.

So you seem to be using the strategy to make one true statement to seem false by surrounding it with false or nonsense statements.
 
But here we are 30 years later, and it seems the Apple iPhone is too good for the unwashed masses.

What a blatant load of nonsense. Where I live (in the UK), everyone can afford an iPhone. There are plenty of people for whom paying lots of money every month (you can get an iPhone for about £20 a month) for a phone is definitely not a wise decision, but everyone can afford one.

If Apple's plan was to provide a more attractive entry-level offering with the 5C, they failed miserably.

That never was Apple's plan. The 5c mostly takes buyers away from the high-end range of Apple's competitors. Not a huge number, but a lot of phones that Apple otherwise wouldn't have sold. Samsung's high end phone sales are hurting, and the 5c had some effect there.

And I know people who will _never_ buy the best and most expensive of anything, and others who will _never_ buy anything _but_ the best and most expensive (in both cases, even if it is not a rational decision). With these people, the 5c _does_ produce more sales. There are people who now buy a 5s because it is better than the 5c, who wouldn't have bought it if the 5c didn't exist.
 
Last edited:
Everyone who didn't buy the 5 or 5S is waiting for a larger iPhone. That coupled with the fact that there is now a vast array of quality Android phones and Android is a mature platform with a massive catalogue of apps. And the fact that there is no viable competitor in the low end market, it would only make sense for Android to continue to gain marketshare.

I think that's a far stretch to say everyone is waiting for a larger phone. I know plenty of people that aren't upgrading because they aren't appealed by the new phone iOS 7. If you think about it, a 4S running iOS 6.5 is still a great phone.
 
Still is in my opinion. Emails, Messaging and BBM have never been faster and as instant on any other phone I've owned. I've never used an Android phone though, so for all I know, the grass could be really green in Android-land.

I have an Android now. I had a ipHone 4S.
I assure you, you are correct, they were fastest on a blackberry.
The email on the blackberry was just amazing.
 
Yes and no. The iPhone has made enough of an impact that it doesn't necessarily need a lot of advertising to sell. But if someone who were completely brand neutral were to walk into a store and see the latest and greatest Android phone set in a well built display right in the center of the room, proudly showing off the latest and greatest apps and features on a big screen, it's gonna draw some attention, and that attention will lead to sales.

No matter how big you get, no matter how well known you are, you never stop advertising. Because your competitors sure as hell won't.

Of course Apple will continue to advertise. I never said anything about that :)

My point was... there are 4 or 5 times as many Android phones on display at the Verizon store compared to iPhones on display.

Yet the iPhone makes up roughly half of Verizon's smartphone sales.
 
Good post, but I disagree that Apple should not be concerned about market-share at all. They should not be obsessed with market-share, but they should care about it.

Right now, Apple is very, very far from competing on razor-thin margins. They have incredibly high margins (they don't release them, but it's estimated to be anywhere from 50-60%). Those kinds of margins are unheard of in the consumer electronics industry.

Apple can very well afford to lower those margins and stop hoarding such massive amounts of money. It's not really a loss for them, since they don't know what to do with all that money anyway. If it increases the quality of products lower down the market, that will only squeeze their competitors even further.

If all Apple cares about is profit, they can keep on making it while their platform erodes. I believe Apple is still the most profitable PC manufacturer, despite their platform being only 10% of the market. It would be a horrible waste of an opportunity if Apple let their platform fall to those kinds of figures and didn't do anything about it because they were still the most profitable smartphone vendor (targeting the so-called "high-end" of the market).

From the point of view of a consumer, higher profit margins by the vendor should be viewed as a negative when comparing to other alternatives. I think that is the bigger story here. The euro numbers on this chart are interesting
 
The $1.500 price makes it climb in the rating?

It makes it come close to tying for second place.

Seriously? What's the point of that thing? It's got a touchscreen, and I can see the little phone icon right there on the dock, so I know it's got Androids dialer in it. SO WHY THE HELL DOES IT HAVE A PHYSICAL NUMPAD? WHAT'S THE POINT OF THAT? IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!

GAWD! I don't...I don't...I don't...
 
What a blatant load of nonsense. Where I live (in the UK), everyone can afford an iPhone. There are plenty of people for whom paying lots of money every month (you can get an iPhone for about £20 a month) for a phone is definitely not a wise decision, but everyone can afford one.

That little bit you quoted was in response to someone else's generalisation about the people who buy cheap phones, not a dig at Apple—no need to get your panties in a twist trying to defend them over that comment.

But since you've addressed me, may I point out that you must live a very sheltered life indeed if you think everyone in your own country can afford an iPhone (let alone people in poorer countries).
 
From the point of view of a consumer, higher profit margins by the vendor should be viewed as a negative when comparing to other alternatives. I think that is the bigger story here.

"Should be"? That's overly simplistic, especially in the phone market where carrier subsidies contribute to profits. And then you could consider long term viability and investment in the ecosystem.
 
How so? Do you think AppStore would still be #1 choice for developers, when iOS market share is 10% and Android has 80%? Many people buy iOS products, because most apps are available on iOS, and not necessarily on other platforms.

Developers don't care for market share. They care for people who are willing to pay money for software. If someone pays $80 for an Android phone (and there is nothing wrong with buying a cheap phone if it serves your purpose) that person is much less likely to spend money on apps than someone who paid $600 for a phone (whether iPhone or Android).
 
What a blatant load of nonsense. Where I live (in the UK), everyone can afford an iPhone. There are plenty of people for whom paying lots of money every month (you can get an iPhone for about £20 a month) for a phone is definitely not a wise decision, but everyone can afford one.
No.
 
But since you've addressed me, may I point out that you must live a very sheltered life indeed if you think everyone in your own country can afford an iPhone (let alone people in poorer countries).

Stupid again. I live in the UK, and I know the people here, including people who haven't worked in their life and live on benefits, and yes, they can afford iPhones.
 
I agree that Apple makes 'quality designs', and yet, they also have the highest profit margins in the industry. That's often lauded as the only metric that really counts by many MR members, and you're seeing it again on this thread. I'd like to know when Apple's cash reserves will be high enough to start passing on some savings to its customers. Heaven forbid they should do that some time before the smart phone market is saturated. It doesn't look like it though.

There is also another aspect to it vs. having higher margins. I can think of two. One, people tend to like expensive things more than cheaper versions. If it can be justified by marketing... Another one could be, people with money, who can afford an iphone will be more likely to buy apps, accesories, etc so a bigger ecosystem hence repeat customers.
 
"Should be"? That's overly simplistic, especially in the phone market where carrier subsidies contribute to profits. And then you could consider long term viability and investment in the ecosystem.

Fair enough regarding subsidies (personally no longer buy subsidized phones, so of course I overlook it :) ), but I don't have much doubt that android and windows will continue to be viable.
 
Another meaningless market share report based on estimates from some firm. Until OEMs actually report sales figures we'll never know what the real market is and each companies share of it.

Why are market share reports always meaningless when they don't favor Apple?
 
Developers don't care for market share. They care for people who are willing to pay money for software. If someone pays $80 for an Android phone (and there is nothing wrong with buying a cheap phone if it serves your purpose) that person is much less likely to spend money on apps than someone who paid $600 for a phone (whether iPhone or Android).

Generally speaking, more marketshare means more potential buyers for your software. Most developers always try to hit as large an audience as possible, and, barring a few higher end exceptions such as games and maybe some office suites, an $80 smartphone will run most apps just as well as a $500.

Though this doesn't mean they're more likely to choose Android over iOS. Just that Android is as potentially viable a platform.
 
but I don't have much doubt that android and windows will continue to be viable.

Neither do I. Profit isn't the only factor. Windows is extremely profitable for Microsoft. Android is profitable for Samsung. I'd be worried if, say, HTC had any sort proprietary platform features that I was invested in.

And if the iPhone was in the same position it is now with little to no profitability, I'd be concerned about its future.
 
had the numbers been more in Apple's favor, I doubt we would be seeing posts questioning the credibility of the source

No doubt, that's a given.

----------

Over the last few days we've been reading about the launch of the Mac 30 years ago, and how it was conceived as 'the computer for the rest of us'. The previous article reports that 'Caroline Rose, who wrote the Macintosh's technical documentation, said the team had tears in their eyes and became depressed when it was announced the price of the Mac was raised from $1,995 to $2,495 to offset the massive marketing costs, because the people they built the computer for wouldn't be able to purchase it.'

But here we are 30 years later, and it seems the Apple iPhone is too good for the unwashed masses. Are you guys all shareholders? You sound more like the John Sculleys of that period of Apple history, than the passionate Mac team we've all been reading about—the team that would have taken lower profit margins to see a Mac in the hands of as many ordinary people as they could.

Good post. Apple isn't for "the rest of us" anymore. They have become what they once fought against, IMO.
 
I did not say a free phone is "for the most part" a smartphone. An ANDROID phone is "for the most part" a smartphone. Over the years FREE phones have been shifting from mostly dumbphones to mostly smartphones running android. That is all I am saying.



Ok, let me step back a minute. When I think of smartphones, I think of a phone that requires a data plan. You could technically create a clam shell phone running android with no 3G or LTE chip in it. It could have a 1.5 inch non-touchscreen LCD display. Is such a phone a smartphone? Yes it technically has Android, but it cannot connect to the internet, it has no touch screen, and it has no qwerty keyboard. I would not consider that a smartphone.

You're dealing in if situations that don't exist (that I am aware of), I am talking about real world examples.

However with your reasoning on this, the point is moot anyways. If that device ran Android and you don't consider it to be a smartphone, then you would have to treat any device running iOS the same. So they cancel each other out.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.