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I call BS. If there were such a memo it would be huge news on macrumors, engadget, etc.

This whole thread is ridiculous - I might just as well say that the iPhone will be released for T-Mobile in August 2008, and anyone who claims otherwise (despite evidence to the contrary) is an idiot. But for those waiting for an iPhone on Verizon, enjoy the wait ....

I know I know, so then I thought, maybe only the 5th Ave workers got it? I am not 100% sure but I trust my friend and he wouldnt lie to me just as I wouldnt lie to you guys, who have helped me resolve Mac issues numerous times.

Btw, you're ridiculous.
 
Although I definitely agree that this is not going to be happening anytime soon, I wouldn't necessarily say there there is never going to be a Verizon iPhone. All the big cellphone makers have versions for all the major carriers (Motorola, RIM, Palm, etc....). If Apple really wants to change the whole cellphone game, they are going to have to expand to verizon at some point. IMO if Palm can afford to do it, Apple can as well.
 
yadmonkey, I just joined this forum a few moments ago to throw my full support behind your initial post. I've been getting my arse flamed on Howardforums for a very similar thread that I started a month ago on the same subject (and this was before the keynote). I know your frustration. I've found that no matter what clear and well-thought-out arguments I make, the AT&T fanboys toss the same worn-out arguments back at me, with little substantiation and little truth. The bottom line is that they have their iPhone already, so they really see no reason at all to bother thinking about your discussion points and whether they have any merit. They won't for a moment think like a businessman and ask themselves whether the CEO of a successful company like Apple would ignore 80 million potential customers out of the principal of the matter. They just don't care. It's far easier and more satisfying for them to come in here and trash your ideas because of a few rumors and myths that have gained WAY too much notoriety in the press.

For the rest of you, let's get a few facts straight. First of all, this IS a speculative thread. Yadmonkey said that outright. He has no facts that specifically point to a CDMA iPhone. He's deducing this conclusion from a few potential signs. Accept that.

Second, the supposed 5 Year Agreement was NEVER a confirmed fact, and neither was the statement that Apple was barred from making a CDMA iPhone. This was a rumor published in ONE paper, USA Today from an "inside source". A lot of people here have very inventive memories when they say things like the terms of the agreement were "announced". The terms of the agreement are a closely-guarded corporate secret and neither party has ever officially announced ANYTHING. Do a little digging and you'll find out it's true. Isn't it a little suspicious that they are keeping the terms so secret? Makes me think they are not as favorable to AT&T as they want you to think.

So it's not the big stretch everyone thinks it is for Yadmonkey to say that the 5 year term was a myth. I agree that the July 10 press release from AT&T is slippery and vague. AT&T's sudden revelation that they are going to lose money on the phone over the next few years is also very interesting. What a sudden and dramatic change.

Lastly, you guys that like to bash CDMA and say it's not worth developing a phone for, or that a future technology like LTE matters now in this fast-paced business, are not paying attention to the cell phone industry. Yadmonkey has already made a number of great (and generally ignored) points on this, so I will only say the following: Who is the other hot smartphone maker right now, the only one who has a prayer at competing with Apple in the long run? That's right, RIM (Blackberry). Did they bother with CDMA? You bet they did, and they continue to. They even sell world phones with both radios, because they know both markets are important. Their very first touch phone (the Thunder), which looks mighty nice I must say, will start as a CDMA Exclusive! And the Bold will intro on both networks on launch. Yes, it costs money to revise the iPhone design for CDMA, and it's not just "dropping in a new chip", but many companies have done this many times, so it ain't THAT hard. And I'm extremely confident in saying that they will MORE than make their money back. The iPhone is friggin HOT, and they would sell plenty to customers that don't want to switch for various reasons, or areas that AT&T doesn't even serve.

I think the chances are quite good we will see a CDMA iPhone in 6 months to a year max. And no, I don't believe for a second that salespeople at an Apple Store received any kind of memo revealing the terms of this clearly secret agreement. If they did that, they might as well put them on a Goodyear Blimp and fly it over New York too.
 
...and let me throw one more thing into the discussion. News item on AppleInsider today:

Apple's worldwide notebook share approaching 5 percent

The worldwide market for notebook computers shrank 6 percent during the first quarter of 2008, but the effects of the squeeze were nowhere to be found at Mac maker Apple Inc., which saw sales rise 7 percent to boost its position in the global rankings for the first time in about a year.
...​

Why is this relevant to the iPhone? Because the proliferation of the iPhone (and the iPod line previously) has played a big role in helping Apple expand their laptop and desktop market share. These products have done wonders to help Apple sell the benefits of their computer products to people worldwide. This is well documented in the news.

So if they make the iPhone available to 80 million new US customers, they could potentially sell a lot of Mac computers to many of them. Think that doesn't count for something?
 
This thread is hilarious, it's like a bunch of arguing husbands and wives!

My .02, no one knows, so why should anyone comment. Speculation(s) is fun, but it just becomes a recycled conversation. This thread is fun though, keep it up fellow board members...
 
...and let me throw one more thing into the discussion. News item on AppleInsider today:

Apple's worldwide notebook share approaching 5 percent

The worldwide market for notebook computers shrank 6 percent during the first quarter of 2008, but the effects of the squeeze were nowhere to be found at Mac maker Apple Inc., which saw sales rise 7 percent to boost its position in the global rankings for the first time in about a year.
...​

Why is this relevant to the iPhone? Because the proliferation of the iPhone (and the iPod line previously) has played a big role in helping Apple expand their laptop and desktop market share. These products have done wonders to help Apple sell the benefits of their computer products to people worldwide. This is well documented in the news.

So if they make the iPhone available to 80 million new US customers, they could potentially sell a lot of Mac computers to many of them. Think that doesn't count for something?

Redman, thank you for lending your voice of support to these cockamamie ideas! :)

I completely agree with your point about converting potential Mac users through the iPhone. Sure, 80 million potential customers isn't that impressive compared to the billions of GSM subscribers, but these 80 million are in North America, which is clearly where the Mac has its strongest presence by a long shot. These are, by world standards, amongst the most wealthy potential customers and the ones for which Apple products are the most recognizable and accessible. I've spent a lot of time in several European countries and you just don't see Macs in the quantities you do here. South and Central America? Africa? Asia? Relatively tiny adoption of the Mac platform.

At the same time, I'm not holding my breath, but I find people's certainty about AT&T's long term exclusive to be very odd. And even more strange is how obnoxious some of them are about it. There's this sort-of "You're an idiot if you think the iPhone will ever go CDMA and haha you don't have an iPhone" attitude. But we've seen this before on these forums...

"No way will Apple switch to Intel."

"No way will Apple drop PPC support that soon."

"No way will Apple make a phone."

"No way will Apple make another PDA. Look at the Newton." (look at what the iPhone and iPhone Touch are becoming)

"No way will Apple's stock go over 100 again."

"No way will bla bla bla..."

...you get the point. There's aren't real quotes obviously, but I've heard all of these sentiments expressed on these forums over the years with the same kind of certainty and hubris. I wouldn't be that surprised if the iPhone doesn't ever go CDMA, but how could you begin to count it out? We're all just amateur analysts without real sources, babbling on in the spirit of speculation!

Cheers and thanks for the thoughtful post!
 
Here's why today's events have actually increased my hopes for a CDMA iPhone (to be taken with a grain of salt of course!):

  • Apple barely mentioned AT&T at their WWDC keynote.

Look at what you said... at the WWDC, Apple barely mentioned AT&T... doesn't the WW in WWDC stand for WORLD WIDE?

If it's world wide then why would Apple focus on the AT&T service?
 
This thread is hilarious, it's like a bunch of arguing husbands and wives!

My .02, no one knows, so why should anyone comment. Speculation(s) is fun, but it just becomes a recycled conversation. This thread is fun though, keep it up fellow board members...

First of all, love your username!

I think the recycling of ideas is inevitable in these sorts of threads, but I think it can be pretty useful because through the process you drudge up a new idea or insight once in a while. Sometimes threads get to the good stuff long after many ornery types chime in to do nothing other than declare it dead.
 
First of all, love your username!

I think the recycling of ideas is inevitable in these sorts of threads, but I think it can be pretty useful because through the process you drudge up a new idea or insight once in a while. Sometimes threads get to the good stuff long after many ornery types chime in to do nothing other than declare it dead.

Oh Yad, thanks for the name compliment. I totally understand this thread, the thought of these ideas is what is fun and worthy of debate, I just hate for people to dig out the claws when we're all here for good natured fun. After reading I see everyone's side(those that can relay a proper message without belittling).

But the recycling nature I speak of mostly comes from those who refuse to think outside "their" mind space. Anywho, you all make good points. Myself I dont have an opinion, but I can understand both arguments....
 
"No way will Apple switch to Intel."

"No way will Apple drop PPC support that soon."

"No way will Apple make a phone."

"No way will Apple make another PDA. Look at the Newton." (look at what the iPhone and iPhone Touch are becoming)

"No way will Apple's stock go over 100 again."

"No way will bla bla bla..."

Fine, how about this: "Verizon explicitly said they rejected the iPhone when Apple approached them. What makes you think they'll turn around and ask to sell it after bashing the iPhone and entering in a short-term exclusivity agreement with Blackberry for the Thunder (because we all know that there WILL be a GSM version down the road just as there will be a CDMA version of the Bold that AT&T has short-term exclusivity for; that's just the way Blackberry works) and attempting to trumpet the LG Voyager as an iPhone killer?"
 
Fine, how about this: "Verizon explicitly said they rejected the iPhone when Apple approached them. What makes you think they'll turn around and ask to sell it after bashing the iPhone and entering in a short-term exclusivity agreement with Blackberry for the Thunder (because we all know that there WILL be a GSM version down the road just as there will be a CDMA version of the Bold that AT&T has short-term exclusivity for; that's just the way Blackberry works) and attempting to trumpet the LG Voyager as an iPhone killer?"

You're right because business climates never change. [/sarcasm] What I don't understand is how you can clearly understand the inevitability of an end to the Bold's exclusive, but won't consider the possibility that the iPhone will do the same, which is par for the course in this biz.

And yes, Verizon reject Apple's terms first time around, but clearly Apple's terms have changed, since they're no longer getting revenue sharing, which was the thing Verizon was most opposed to.

And Verizon has opened their network since all that. Another change in the climate. I'm open to the possibility that the iPhone will never go CDMA, but there's just not enough data out there to count it out.
 
I just like to point out that there is a big difference between pointing out the benefits of a future Verizon / CMDA iPhone and stating that you are certain there will be such a phone on the market within six months to a year.
 
yadmonkey, I just joined this forum a few moments ago to throw my full support behind your initial post. I've been getting my arse flamed on Howardforums for a very similar thread that I started a month ago on the same subject (and this was before the keynote). I know your frustration. I've found that no matter what clear and well-thought-out arguments I make, the AT&T fanboys toss the same worn-out arguments back at me, with little substantiation and little truth. The bottom line is that they have their iPhone already, so they really see no reason at all to bother thinking about your discussion points and whether they have any merit. They won't for a moment think like a businessman and ask themselves whether the CEO of a successful company like Apple would ignore 80 million potential customers out of the principal of the matter. They just don't care. It's far easier and more satisfying for them to come in here and trash your ideas because of a few rumors and myths that have gained WAY too much notoriety in the press.

For the rest of you, let's get a few facts straight. First of all, this IS a speculative thread. Yadmonkey said that outright. He has no facts that specifically point to a CDMA iPhone. He's deducing this conclusion from a few potential signs. Accept that.

Second, the supposed 5 Year Agreement was NEVER a confirmed fact, and neither was the statement that Apple was barred from making a CDMA iPhone. This was a rumor published in ONE paper, USA Today from an "inside source". A lot of people here have very inventive memories when they say things like the terms of the agreement were "announced". The terms of the agreement are a closely-guarded corporate secret and neither party has ever officially announced ANYTHING. Do a little digging and you'll find out it's true. Isn't it a little suspicious that they are keeping the terms so secret? Makes me think they are not as favorable to AT&T as they want you to think.

So it's not the big stretch everyone thinks it is for Yadmonkey to say that the 5 year term was a myth. I agree that the July 10 press release from AT&T is slippery and vague. AT&T's sudden revelation that they are going to lose money on the phone over the next few years is also very interesting. What a sudden and dramatic change.

Lastly, you guys that like to bash CDMA and say it's not worth developing a phone for, or that a future technology like LTE matters now in this fast-paced business, are not paying attention to the cell phone industry. Yadmonkey has already made a number of great (and generally ignored) points on this, so I will only say the following: Who is the other hot smartphone maker right now, the only one who has a prayer at competing with Apple in the long run? That's right, RIM (Blackberry). Did they bother with CDMA? You bet they did, and they continue to. They even sell world phones with both radios, because they know both markets are important. Their very first touch phone (the Thunder), which looks mighty nice I must say, will start as a CDMA Exclusive! And the Bold will intro on both networks on launch. Yes, it costs money to revise the iPhone design for CDMA, and it's not just "dropping in a new chip", but many companies have done this many times, so it ain't THAT hard. And I'm extremely confident in saying that they will MORE than make their money back. The iPhone is friggin HOT, and they would sell plenty to customers that don't want to switch for various reasons, or areas that AT&T doesn't even serve.

I think the chances are quite good we will see a CDMA iPhone in 6 months to a year max. And no, I don't believe for a second that salespeople at an Apple Store received any kind of memo revealing the terms of this clearly secret agreement. If they did that, they might as well put them on a Goodyear Blimp and fly it over New York too.

lol @ you thinking RIM is the only company that can compete with apple. ever heard of a little company called nokia? oh wait thats right, all of their high end smartphones are GSM. hmmm i wonder why that is? surely they could make CDMA versions if they wanted to but they dont.
 
The Two (Well Maybe Three) Reasons I Switched From Verizon to AT&T

  1. Rollover Minutes
  2. GSM
When I'm in the office I use maybe 20 minutes a month, on the road I use a ton of minutes.
Verizon was killing me with their overages.
I go back to the UK every year. The rest of the world uses GSM.
Enough said. Okay - I could have added #3. AT&T has the iPhone.
 
Reading through some of the posts again, just to note something:

I've spent a lot of time in several European countries and you just don't see Macs in the quantities you do here. South and Central America? Africa? Asia? Relatively tiny adoption of the Mac platform.

Response:
The rest of the world uses GSM.

They even sell world phones with both radios, because they know both markets are important.

And on that note, don't expect a UTMS/EV-DO dual-mode iPhone without the physical size changing. UTMS and GSM already have some different components. Throwing EV-DO into the mix would actually require re-tooling the iPhone physically.
 
lol @ you thinking RIM is the only company that can compete with apple. ever heard of a little company called nokia? oh wait thats right, all of their high end smartphones are GSM. hmmm i wonder why that is? surely they could make CDMA versions if they wanted to but they dont.

Answer:

A) Nokia is a European company, so it's much more understandable that they focus on the market they know best, which is GSM/3G.

B) They just announced a CDMA flip phone for Verizon (check PhoneNews). It wouldn't surprise me if smartphones for Verizon will follow.

C) You are missing my point entirely. My point was that a lot of people claim it is not worth it for Apple to develop for CDMA, since it is such a "limited market". The implication being made is that they can't recoup their costs plus make a nice profit with a CDMA model. Clearly RIM feels differently. Just because EVERY smartphone maker out there doesn't have a CDMA model doesn't mean my argument is baseless. But if you want to shoot holes in my comments just for the sake of it, don't let me stop you.:rolleyes:
 
  1. Rollover Minutes
  2. GSM
When I'm in the office I use maybe 20 minutes a month, on the road I use a ton of minutes.
Verizon was killing me with their overages.
I go back to the UK every year. The rest of the world uses GSM.
Enough said. Okay - I could have added #3. AT&T has the iPhone.

Therefore AT&T makes total sense for you. I wish it did for me. If so, I wouldn't be wasting my time arguing about CDMA possibilities. I'd already have an iPhone.

But for me, and many others, AT&T reception in my area (Sacramento) stinks compared to Verizon. I only go overseas once every 3-4 years, for two weeks at most. My wife and I are on a family share plan on Verizon. She gets a special County employment discount. Our contracts don't expire until next year. And frankly I'm spoiled by hardly EVER having a call dropped, and getting 3G speeds (EVDO) even out in the boonies. So that's why I'm holding off, hoping to enjoy this great phone on the network I prefer.
 
... But we've seen this before on these forums...

"No way will Apple switch to Intel."

"No way will Apple drop PPC support that soon."

...

I also remember when we were all using iPods with black and white screens, wondering if Apple would ever release a video model. But Steve Jobs commented to the press several times that Apple wasn't interested in video, and that music was their focus. Some heated discussions broke out on these forums, with some speculating we'd get a video iPod, because it just made business sense, while others were blasting them for dreaming because Steve specifically said he wouldn't do it, and that was that.

I wonder when folks are going to realize that the tech business is RAPIDLY changing, and no company like Apple or Verizon sticks with one decision for long if it doesn't benefit them anymore. They can't, or they wouldn't be as successful as they are. And companies will OFTEN tell us one thing, or give a vague answer, because it suits them at the moment, and then the story changes later. It's called protecting proprietary information for competitive reasons.
 
Answer:

A) Nokia is a European company, so it's much more understandable that they focus on the market they know best, which is GSM/3G.

B) They just announced a CDMA flip phone for Verizon (check PhoneNews). It wouldn't surprise me if smartphones for Verizon will follow.

C) You are missing my point entirely. My point was that a lot of people claim it is not worth it for Apple to develop for CDMA, since it is such a "limited market". The implication being made is that they can't recoup their costs plus make a nice profit with a CDMA model. Clearly RIM feels differently. Just because EVERY smartphone maker out there doesn't have a CDMA model doesn't mean my argument is baseless. But if you want to shoot holes in my comments just for the sake of it, don't let me stop you.:rolleyes:

your argument assumes that it is apple stopping the iphone from becoming CDMA. ever stop to think that verizon is the one refusing to play ball?
 
A) Nokia is a European company, so it's much more understandable that they focus on the market they know best, which is GSM/3G.

Good point. Nokia's offerings for Verizon have always been sparse, not just in the smartphone department.

As I've said before: the way some of these people are arguing, if they were correct then nobody would be making phones for CDMA. But they are. Yet how would Verizon have turned down the iPhone if Apple hadn't already approached them about it and thought it worthwhile to bring their phone to a CDMA network?

In fact it's almost a certainty that Apple already has done some of the R&D required to make a CDMA iPhone, since they've already approached Verizon about it. But people here talk like Apple would have to completely reinvent the iPhone in order to bring it to the Verizon network. They wouldn't. I'm not saying it'd be a piece of cake, but if Blackberry can do it... I'm saying that there's a lot of low-hanging fruit for them to snatch up in the North American CDMA network.

But for me, and many others, AT&T reception in my area (Sacramento) stinks compared to Verizon

That pretty much sums it up. I was on AT&T for 4 years. They were OK for me in NYC, but they stink in Colorado outside of downtown areas. If AT&T was even remotely viable for me as a professional, I'd have switched in a heartbeat. I've been out of contract with Verizon for 2 years and have absolutely no loyalty to them outside the fact that they have the network which works for me where I want to be.
 
your argument assumes that it is apple stopping the iphone from becoming CDMA. ever stop to think that verizon is the one refusing to play ball?

That was a very real consideration. That is, before this announcement. Things change. Verizon has decided to focus on selling their network rather than devices.
 
I was on AT&T for 4 years. They were OK for me in NYC, but they stink in Colorado outside of downtown areas. If AT&T was even remotely viable for me as a professional, I'd have switched in a heartbeat. I've been out of contract with Verizon for 2 years and have absolutely no loyalty to them outside the fact that they have the network which works for me where I want to be.

I also like to point out to the naysayers that Steve Jobs probably wants to get a strong signal on his iPhone too, and he can't be getting that now on AT&T in the Bay Area and the surrounding counties. I have family in the Bay Area, and I used to live there. I know first-hand that AT&T service there is pretty spotty compared to Verizon. It gets much worse when you head out of town. Every time I call my brother, who has an AT&T Blackjack and lives in the Bay Area, the call drops on his end at some point almost every single time whether he's at home or on the road. That rarely happens on my phone when I'm there.
 
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