iPhone-optimized web app (demo)

[WannaGoMac]

He chose to make it Safari only by choice, not by a limitation. Since the iPhone (target audience) is a WebKit engine, Safari is a second best choice for accurate layout and function testing. Once iPhones are in the wild better apps will be designed to test these apps. For now, Safari is the best choice.

It would likely function in any browser, since CSS and JS are internet standards, but he chose to stick with Webkit since Firefox (mozilla) doesn't run on the iPhone.

lol, wow, Microsoft said the same thing about IE and the world yelled. Yet, you have a choice to make IE only pages or not, and to choose to use those advanced features or not that make it IE only.

To me, this is a real double-standard and I am disappointed in the Mac community that they don't see this and complain (and whine) similarly as they did about IE. I guess everything is fine with crazy standards as long as it is your own standard eh?

 

[neven]

One suggestion: When you go to edit the list on the main screen, it would be nice if you can still see what was checked off so you can delete those items.

That had occurred to me, but I figured that since the item was "grayed out" in addition to being checked, I could hide the checkbox to save horizontal space for the item name, and you could still see what was checked when editing.

 

[neven]

To me, this is a real double-standard and I am disappointed in the Mac community that they don't see this and complain (and whine) similarly as they did about IE. I guess everything is fine with crazy standards as long as it is your own standard eh?

I think you're missing the fact that most developers at WWDC (according to everything I've read) are furious at this web app scheme. They want to develop Cocoa apps based on the code they already have and know, and they're rightly upset.

Apple will have some sort of iPhone SDK at some point, but not on June 29. And until they do, iPhone users have the options of:

a) not using 3rd party apps at all
b) using web apps already out there
c) using web apps made with iPhone in mind

You're free to choose for yourself, but don't be surprised that many will pick c).

 

[dtich]

Just wanted to let everyone know that OneTrip is now located at

OneTrip.org

Many, many, many thanks to Ambitious Lemon for hosting it!

that is a pretty little app, well done. i for one could really use that!

i can't see any reason why we won't be able to save this to our iphone 'desktop' or wherever and call it that way. i'm sure they'll be a file system/desktop/finder thing on there to access saved lists and backups and images and such. hopefully it's a pretty customizable finder type setup and we can have folders, etc. so you could open with a bookmark that points to a local file, or the web site. why not?

this is all assuming most of us aren't killed or maimed in the apple att store onslaught that occurs on the 29th....

 

[neven]

i'm sure they'll be a file system/desktop/finder thing on there to access saved lists and backups and images and such. hopefully it's a pretty customizable finder type setup and we can have folders, etc. so you could open with a bookmark that points to a local file, or the web site. why not?

I'd love for that to be true, but my intuition says, nope...

 

[strangelogic]

I don't know if it because I'm not using the new safari beta, but it might be more finger friendly if the whole line for an item activated/deactivated the check-box. Having to point to the right side and hit the check-box is very obvious with a mouse but with a finger I will just be happy to hit 'Apples' instead of 'Berries' ... And selecting the items seemed to be the whole item name was in effect the 'selecter'.

It is a great example of what can be done. I'm hoping that there will be someway to store these apps to run in safari on your phone with no internet access. I had assumed there would be by the way SJ described it --- but I'm now assuming that all the people who say 'aint gonna happen' here have researched it - that's a let down.

 

[dopeytree]

osx on iphone?

am i imagining it or isnt the iphone supossed to have a cut down version of osx on it?

i.e it should have some kind of finder? and away to store files

if u get sent emails with photos in your guna want to save em etc so for gods sake we should be able to save a webpage/app

im sure someone will find a hack if not, i expect the iphone to be huge like the psp brought loads of homebrew and the wii brought lots of little web pages /widgets the iphone will have its own thing, its going to be a huge hit

just look how the ipod has gone!

 

[dtich]

I'd love for that to be true, but my intuition says, nope...

yeah, maybe i'm dreaming....

but, then where does sj get off calling it a mobile computer? i think it's crazy if we can't even have local file/app access. what is the point??

hopefully all this is fixable in firm/soft-ware and we won't have to wait long for them to wake up to the issues....

(dreaming again.)

 

[RedTomato]

Neven, I know you have specifically said you don't want to make it cross browser, but if you could make it work with the IE browser for Windows Mobile 5/6, you would make it work with millions of phones.

HTC make the coolest phones in the world (until the iPhone comes out) and they are the only people who seem to give thought to hardware design and useable slide-out qwerty keyboard for actually doing useful stuff on mobiles. Their qwertyphones run WM 5/6.

 

[winterspan]

Even SJ Agrees with Me!

I already wrote a long analysis on why it's a terrible idea to only allow web applications on the iphone. I dont want to rehash that. It is here:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/312939/

But what I wanted to point out was the conversation Steve Jobs had at 'All Things Digital':

Steve: I’ll give you a concrete example. I love Google Maps, use it on my computer, you know, in a browser. But when we were doing the iPhone, we thought, wouldn’t it be great to have maps on the iPhone? And so we called up Google and they’d done a few client apps in Java on some phones and they had an API that we worked with them a little on. And we ended up writing a client app for those APIs. They would provide the back-end service. And the app we were able to write ... blows away any Google Maps client. Just blows it away. Same set of data coming off the server, but the experience you have using it is unbelievable. It’s way better than the computer. And just in a completely different league than what they’d put on phones before. And, you know, that client is the result of a lot of technology on the client, that client application. So when we show it to them, they’re just blown away by how good it is. And you can’t do that stuff in a browser.

So people are figuring out how to do more in a browser, how to get a persistent state of things when you’re disconnected from a browser, how do you actually run apps locally using, you know, apps written in those technologies so they can be pretty transparent, whether you’re connected or not. But it’s happening fairly slowly and there’s still a lot you can do with a rich client environment. At the same time, the hardware is progressing to where you can run a rich client environment on lower and lower cost devices, on lower and lower power devices.And so there’s some pretty cool things you can do with clients.

Walt: OK. So you’re saying rich clients still matter...

Steve: What I’m saying is, I think the marriage of some really great [native] client apps with some really great cloud services is incredibly powerful and right now, can be way more powerful than just having a browser on the client.



EXACTLY STEVE!! The Ideal (and only IMO) 3rd-party application support is allowing sandboxed native rich-client applications utilizing Cocoa/Core Animation/Multi-touch SDKs that can also retrieve data/sync to the internet *when its available*!!!

link here: http://d5.allthingsd.com/20070531/d5-gates-jobs-transcript/

 

[kansaigaijin]

First off, this is my first post (I usually use the website to browse), so please, no newbie bashing

Anyhow, this may have been mentioned, but, will the iphone.org domain name play a role in the upcoming "safari-based" applications? From my understanding (or lack thereof), these applications will utilize safari as their foundation and then run / execute within safari's browser. In my view, it seems that it would be difficult to download each specified "safari-based" program, whereas it would be easier for programmers to upload their work to the domain name; thus, being easier for Apple to disseminate the programs...

...something to the affect of accessing a website to use the program (does that make sense?); e.g.: iphone.org/ProgramXYZ

Again, not so sure if that's even a feasible possibility, but just a thought...

Any domain/website will do. there are already apps that are accessed through browsers, it is just a matter of visiting a web page, and if it it private, logging in. I have set up a site that tracks drivers, trips, and buses for a coach company. Users log-in and they can only see what they are allowed to see. It would be simple to make it optimised for the iPhone.

 

[gobsofrob]

what sites are good for learning javascript to develop apps for iphone?

what sites are good for learning javascript to develop apps for iphone?

thanks in advance.

 

[dcv]

I've just had a play with your OneTrip app - it's very nice and simple to use

Couple of comments though...

- Maybe add a 'Home' button so you don't have to click the back button twice after adding an item.

- When you're in the Edit screen, the 'Edit' button should perhaps change label to 'Back' or 'Home' or 'Previous' or something as having an 'Edit' option there is a little confusing.

- Also in the Edit screen - the 'Clear' option could perhaps do with a warning that it will clear the entire list, or maybe label it 'Clear All'? I missed the little delete icons the first time around!


Apart from that it's great, really nice and simple. Good luck with it!

 

[Ti_Poussin]

I'm disapointed about the web only application avaible for the iPhone. I got a smart phone (kyocera 7135) and I can install or great stuff for it cause it run palm OS. Why on earth do we would want web base only application on a cell phone where bandwith cost an arm and leg ?!

Seriously, you will want to use as less as possible bandwith on a cell phone for the price. I thought a 4 Go HD would be sweet to put a lot of software for work and on the go.

Right now I'm not sure about the iPhone:
1- Too small hard drive space to be a real iPod (OS take some place)
2- App web base only
3- No replaceable batterie
4- Few carrier
5- Expensive (that would be ok if the point above would have been solve)

I wounder with the last keynote with the so "NEW" desktop and the iTV where Apple is going ?! they make eye candy and no more flexible/featured products. The iTv is a flop because you can't add real stuff to it (video codec, a remote controller for my home desktop, etc..) i would install a small form factor Linux (http://linuxmce.com/ for exemple, because there's many more avaible) on the TV that could do a better job so far at lower price point per Go.

I love OS X, the move to intel is ok, but all those new gadget with a real lack of features expensions is killing me, I don't want to be limited to what I can do with a device, let me expend it's capability to what I want.

I'm a computer Ing by the way, that's why I don't like it to be containt like that by a cie, we already have one Microsoft I don't want a second one!
The 3 thing I hate about Apple thoses day:
1- OS X get many eye candy stuff when there's still a lot of job to be done to multithread it for max performance and a decent server version that still behind
2- Fancy gadget like the iTV, dashboard and iPhone that is lock down experience and expensive crap
3- The "pre-fab" model of working they are puting in everything thoses days

 

[dicklacara]

Why bother with a cookie?

Just started reading this thread... so this may already have been addressed.

Why bother storing the data in a cookie... there are lots of easier ways to show/hide data within a web page with much less work and overhead.

Other than that, really nice job!

One thing this points out, tho, is it will be difficult to charge for iPhone apps as the source is available for the world to see (rip off)...

...I think that is why the Developers are upset.

 

[EagerDragon]

Outstanding job. Clean, simple and very elegant. This is a very handy little widget and I hope to see more from you.

So.....if I am understanding how this works.....web-based widgets will be stored as bookmarks within Safari?

I would think that you can save the actual web page right on the phone, then use file:// on the browser to run it.

 

[0098386]

That's actually a very nifty little web app! It'll replace the video diaries I make of shopping lists

 

[0098386]

Why not? A whole "ecosystem" of web pages has sprung up for the Wii, why not the iPhone?

If the iPhone is a raging success, who knows? Thing is the Wii has been out 7 months and snatched 6-7 million users. I hope the iPhone does half as well as that. Hopefully they'll cut the price then and let me get one

 

[EagerDragon]

WAIT!!!! What if my supermarket doesn't have a mobile signal!!!! AHHHH!!!

It would be smart if these mobile web apps could run locally. Like you download a package that can be stored on the phone rather than run via the internet.

Just sayin!

Once the page is downloaded, the script can continue running if it does not use any network resources. As long as it is reading files and comunicating with other iPhone apps, it should be fine.

Once loaded the page that runs can be save to the iphone and just reload as needed by using file://filename

 

[TitoChazo@toold]

First off, let me say - VERY NICE! I love the way you can go back and forth and especially love the use of cookies. I visited the site earlier today and came back later in the day and everything I had "checked off" earlier was still there. One comment/suggestion if I may. Is there a way to unclick or unselect an item once you have selected it besides having to go all the way back and selecting the edit button? Is there a way to have an item checked off with a click but also uncheck it with another click. Basically an "on" and "off" function? Just curiuos. Besides that, I think everything works great.

P.S. Have you seen this site as well? Pretty cool. I'm loving the all the work I'm seeing so early in the stages of this iPhone web app stuff.

 

[iPoodOverZune]

that is a pretty little app, well done. i for one could really use that!

i can't see any reason why we won't be able to save this to our iphone 'desktop' or wherever and call it that way. i'm sure they'll be a file system/desktop/finder thing on there to access saved lists and backups and images and such. hopefully it's a pretty customizable finder type setup and we can have folders, etc. so you could open with a bookmark that points to a local file, or the web site. why not?

I'd love for that to be true, but my intuition says, nope...

Actually, my intuition says that there would be something like that. Could be this is the mystery app/finder system. You could store all the bookmarks (optionally in different folders). And to start the process, apple may provide a small list of useful web-applets. Now the question remains whether those would be just bookmarks or would they allow caching of websites/working offline thing. The former would not consume much memory space but the latter will. Both things are good in the long run for iPhone stability and security until Apple presents another choice.
I think they thought about this since they would probably dont want the consumer to fill the memory with crapplets, especially since you already will have some music and possibly videos there. So Apple started out with this option to build a market (to whatever extent that would be) that would be a good trade-off for now especially when it is important to build the reputation of product in terms of stability and then later venture for something more ambitious. I for one dont want to get lured into crapplets (since we all fall into "temptation" ) once I have this device towards the end of this year.
iPhone FTW

 

[neven]

Why bother storing the data in a cookie... there are lots of easier ways to show/hide data within a web page with much less work and overhead.

Cookies are being used only to store your list so it could be loaded next time you visit OneTrip.

One thing this points out, tho, is it will be difficult to charge for iPhone apps as the source is available for the world to see (rip off)...

It really depends on the app. OneTrip was made to be as small and light as possible, so it doesn't talk to the server once it's loaded. However, the whole thing is output by PHP (makes it easier to maintain).

A more complex application would almost certainly post back to the server often or use AJAX; those are combined client/server technologies and having the client code wouldn't really mean that you have the whole app (or the most significant part of it).

Look at it this way - you can't go out and rip off Google Maps even though a large part of it is client-side code.

 

[iPoodOverZune]

iPhone Digger

there is one more here. Even nicer! I bet you will like this on iPhone better than on your desktop.

http://davidcann.com/iphone/

 

[surferfromuk]

To paraphrase SJ 'It's a sweet little App!''

Nice work but thought you might like to know it didn't work on Windows Safari under XP. I just got a text list of the first screen. Works great on my mac though!.

 

[fjleon]

Fix javascript

Hey neven, i never log in here, but wanted to post this. I understand that you don't want/have the time to make the web page cross browser, but at least you could write legal javascript.

For example,

function hideAllButtons()
{
	btnAdd.style.display = 'none';
	btnEdit.hide();
	btnEditing.hide();
	btnBack.hide();
	btnHome.hide();
	btnClear.hide();
}

You can't use id's without using document.getElementById("id_goes_here"). Otherwise stuff will break. I am amazed that safari can read that, given that they are standard nazis.