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How many Android flagship phones have you owned in the past two years, and what products from the Android ecosystem have you owned along with said phones, i.e. the Pixel buds/watch, Samsung Galaxy buds/watch, etc.? Along with my iPhones that I use for work, I've owned over 12 Android phones and several products from the Android ecosystem within the past two years. Just in September of this year alone, I owned the OnePlus Open, The Z Fold 6, the Pixel 9 Pro Fold, and the Honor Magic V3 Global. I would like to hear what all you have owned, and I would ask that you share your experiences, high level of course. There's no need to write a book about them. The way I see it, if a person has no experience with products, and I mean ownership not playing with a product for five minutes in a store, their opinion means nothing to me. I'm talking about products that are known for being top tier and reliable industry wide, not Yugo's or Folexes or any other piece of **** product. The difference between me and probably 95%+ of the people on this forum, is I put my money where my mouth is, and I try several phones and associated tech products a year to make sure I always get the best ones for my use case. Fire away.
I have owned zero android phones and unless one befalls on me as a gift unlikely that I will ever use one as my daily driver.

Whatever these third party firms report be reminded that they are estimates that could be off by a large margin.

Whatever your preferred platform is and biases to that platform and against competing products is all good. Mine is partially to apple products because for iPads and iPhones they are the best for me and my family. I do use windows but my kids use Macs.

So I do put my money where my mouth is.
 
I have been using an iPhone since 2011. Never owned an android phone, though my dad does own a Sony smartphone (and so I do help him with periodic tech support), as well as assisting my colleagues at work with various matters pertaining to their android phones (which is admittedly funny when you consider that I am widely known as the Apple guy and am supposed to have zero experience with how Android works, but I guess it functions close enough to PCs that I can usually figure something out on the spot).

I also bought my mom an android tablet to play with at home. I would shortly pass it to my dad, and replace it with an ipad 9 (more on that later).

So what I have seen is:

1) Numerous Samsung galaxy flagships with green lines on their screens, and tales of Samsung basically refusing to fix them or charging an arm and a leg for screen replacements.

Seems to be a well-known issue.


I do know a friend who owned the galaxy fold. For a while, it did seem like a great device with a large, gorgeous display that was excellent for viewing photos and documents. Until we returned from an overseas learning trip and her fold’s display died the day after. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Quite a few own the galaxy flip. It seems more popular amongst women, I personally don’t see the point, and the crease in the middle is very prominent.

So yeah, something about Samsung phones and screens and crappy customer support.

2) Nobody I know cares about Dex, much less know that it exists.

3) The main thing they appreciate about android phones is the usb c port, which they can charge using their work laptop charger, though I had to be the one to educate them on how usb-c was universal, and the difference between usb-c as a data port vs pd-only.

Funny story - I also have a ton of spare usb-c chargers and power strips lying around at my workstation, and people come to me by default if they need one in a pinch. It’s my one guilty pleasure, and why I am largely supportive of Apple removing chargers from their products. Because I tend to have better ones lying around.

I will also say that I am largely indifferent between usb-c and lightning, especially after switching to wireless / magsafe charging. I have my lightning adaptors, and Bluetooth for everything else.

4) Apps in the google play store do generally seem of worse quality. On iOS, I was able to quickly locate a free bubble shooter game that was free and ad-free for the ipad. I could not seem to locate the same app on android; they were all ad-supported, and seemed to sport worse UIs overall.

I don’t need to own an android device to know that apps like notability and 1password and Ivory simply aren’t available, and likely won’t be for the near foreseeable future. To be fair, the Xiaomi tablet that I purchased did sport pretty good hardware specs for the price, but that’s offset by me not really being able to do a lot of the stuff I am used to performing on an ipad.

So I don’t think I need to actually own an Android smartphone, much less switch over to the Android ecosystem, to know that it’s not for me. You all like to talk about how android hardware tend to have better specs and / or lower prices, and my response is - “and then?”

And within the context of this discussion, I don’t see Android posing a threat to Apple. Not now, not ever. The main reason why the iphone has the smaller market share it does is due to price, and it’s a paradigm that Apple is happy with.
So, you admittedly have no real firsthand experience with the Android ecosystem at all. This is what I was talking about in my last post. Regardless, I do appreciate all the information you've provided. Most people in MR wouldn't even go that far.

I agree with you on the Galaxy Flip. I owned the Flip 4 and I thought it was practically useless in terms of functionality. It sounds like you don't work with IT/tech people, so I'm not surprised that they need tech support for any phone, to be honest. I work in software and every Android user I know knows their phone inside and out. I could counter many of these points with actual experience, but it doesn't sound like you're willing to give the Android ecosystem an honest try, and that's okay. My goal is to broaden minds, not change them. 😊

However, I will say you're missing out on a lot in life by not experiencing things, be it tech or otherwise. I owned every iPhone and multiple Apple accessories/devices from the iPhone 4 to the 12PM. I tried a few flagship Android phones during that time and I will admit they were all complete trash by comparison. Nearly unusable garbage if I am being honest. And I rooted them, installed custom ROMs, the works. I think people are sometimes stuck in the past when it comes to Android. In my experience, continuing to use both Android and iOS, Android has gotten better by leaps and bounds and iOS has consistently gone downhill over the past 4-5 years. IMHO, Android is the better OS overall now, and this is something I swear I never thought I would say.

I do feel like I should respond to couple of your points, so here goes:

  1. I've owned the Samsung Z Flip 4 and the Fold 3, 4, 5, and 6 for various times each (up to a year), and I've never had a screen issue. Some people take far better care of their phones than others, and from what I've seen in life and on multiple forums, most people treat their phones like complete garbage.
  2. I absolutely loved Dex and now I have what's called Desktop Mode on my Honor Magic V3 Global (their version of Dex), and I like it just as much as Dex. Everyone I know who has used Dex loves it. What's not to love? You can get real work done using Dex on a foldable phone w/ a TV, at home or whenever you travel. It's awesome.
 
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So, you admittedly have no real firsthand experience with the Android ecosystem at all. This is what I was talking about in my last post. Regardless, I do appreciate all the information you've provided. Most people in MR wouldn't even go that far.

I agree with you on the Galaxy Flip. I owned the Flip 4 and I thought it was practically useless in terms of functionality. It sounds like you don't work with IT/tech people, so I'm not surprised that they need tech support for any phone, to be honest. I work in software and every Android user I know knows their phone inside and out. I could counter many of these points with actual experience, but it doesn't sound like you're willing to give the Android ecosystem an honest try, and that's okay. My goal is to broaden minds, not change them. 😊

However, I will say you're missing out on a lot in life by not experiencing things, be it tech or otherwise. I owned every iPhone and multiple Apple accessories/devices from the iPhone 4 to the 12PM. I tried a few flagship Android phones during that time and I will admit they were all complete trash by comparison. Nearly unusable garbage if I am being honest. And I rooted them, installed custom ROMs, the whole works. I think people are sometimes stuck in the past when it comes to Android. In my experience, continuing to use both Android and iOS, Android has gotten better by leaps and bounds and iOS has consistently gone downhill over the past 4-5 years. IMHO, Android is the better OS overall now, and this is something I swear I never thought I would say.

I do feel like I should respond to couple of your points, so here goes:

  1. I've owned the Samsung Z Flip 4 and the Fold 3, 4, 5, and 6 for various times each (up to a year), and I've never had a screen issue. Some people take far better care of their phones than others, and from what I've seen in life and on multiple forums, most people treat their phones like complete garbage.
  2. I absolutely loved Dex and now I have what's called Desktop Mode on my Honor Magic V3 Global (their version of Dex), and I like it just as much as Dex. Everyone I know who has used Dex loves it. What's not to love? You can get real work done using Dex on a foldable phone w/ a TV, at home or whenever you travel. It's awesome.
I remember upgrading my iPod touch to iPhone OS 3 (cost me €7,99 BTW) and getting cut, copy, paste. These days both iOS and Android and the hardware have matured and to me the only differentiating factor is personal preference. I think it's a bit of stretch that you'd be missing out on much choosing either platform, unless you really care about certain specific features I guess.
 
I remember upgrading my iPod touch to iPhone OS 3 (cost me €7,99 BTW) and getting cut, copy, paste. These days both iOS and Android and the hardware have matured and to me the only differentiating factor is personal preference. I think it's a bit of stretch that you'd be missing out on much choosing either platform, unless you really care about certain specific features I guess.
While I agree that the choice of mobile phones is personal preference. I see that lots of brands (almost all) have copied apples ecosystem. Together with much better assistants (this isn’t up for discussion), much cheaper third party offerings (for the exact same gear), better and more advanced AI, latest snapdragons are on pair with Apple’s A-series of chips (will be even faster than Apple’s offerings next year). The iPhone is getting overhauled on all fronts. It’s time for Apple to shift in a higher gear. Relevance can go downhill fast.
 
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While I agree that the choice of mobile phones is personal preference. I see that lots of brands (almost all) have copied apples ecosystem. Together with much better assistants (this isn’t up for discussion), much cheaper third party offerings (for the exact same gear), better and more advanced AI, latest snapdragons are on pair with Apple’s A-series of chips (will be even faster than Apple’s offerings next year). The iPhone is getting overhauled on all fronts. It’s time for Apple to shift in a higher gear. Relevance can go downhill fast.
The argument that the competition is ahead has been made for as long as I can remember. Siri has been bad since 2011. Apple joins new tech later than others like with AI (that IMHO is an overblown hype). It’s never been a spec sheet war.

Meanwhile sale are slowing but it seems to me that this is mostly because Apple remains the only brand without a truly cheap offering in emerging markets. Seeing as they’re investing in local fabrication in those protective Asian markets, they do seem to be on the right track.
 
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My question to you would be, why doesn’t your banking software work on Safari? And I guess you mean your website. Considering Apple’s iphone and tablet marketshare in the US (assuming this is where you are), that’s a huge oversight.
Yeah, any website money and/or buying things that only works with Chrome (because it’s easy for developers to code in) was a website that had a bad set of requirements to start with. These folks HAVE money and have shown the desire to want to spend it, to cut them off is the WORST decision. :)

I’d guarantee that the money paid to support the iPhone would be offset by the revenues they’d see!
 
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Times have changed though and in my small circles I have noticed where 10 years ago nearly all my friends, colleagues and family were using iPhones and now Android is more popular.
Primarily because Apple is aiming for the demographic your friends, colleagues and family aged out of. There is a benefit to a company changing their product to meet the needs as their customers get older. However, as those folks get to the point where they’re unable to buy products anymore (because of changing finances or, like, death), the company would find themselves with a stagnant shrinking customer base.

And, in the 10 years since, if Apple’s been able to sell phones to a number of younger users that equal the number of your friends, colleagues and family, OR MORE, that’s a more sustainable position for Apple over the long run.
 
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So, you admittedly have no real firsthand experience with the Android ecosystem at all. This is what I was talking about in my last post. Regardless, I do appreciate all the information you've provided. Most people in MR wouldn't even go that far.
I guess the point I am trying to make here is that my choice of smartphone is not really going to have a material impact on how well Apple does as a company. We can argue until the cows come home about how Google Assistant is better, about how there are cheaper alternatives that have 120hz refresh rate, about how Android supposedly does this or that one thing better, the fact is that people are buying iPhones (and other Apple products), and Apple is still making a ton of money.

It's a common recurring phenomenon where people like to latch on to news with the slightest hint of Apple negativity, and use it to paint the image of a rudderless company on the brink of irrelevance. Back when I first bought my 4s, there were already people on Cnet claiming that Android market share would dwarf that of iOS, how app developers would soon abandon the iOS App Store soon after, and yes, how Android hardware offered a better deal because they were cheaper and offered better specs on paper (the Google Nexus 7).

So yes, the arguments I see being made today are nothing new, and each and every time, Apple has gone on to do the exact opposite of what "experts" claimed they ought to do, and prospered for it. When people said they needed a netbook, Apple released the iPad. Instead of cheaper phones, Apple actually raised prices, while relying on the grey market and trade-in programmes to keep prices affordable (while at the same time leveraging their devices' longer durability, length of support and access to parts to maintain resale values). At the same time, instead of lowering prices, Apple banks on value, meaning that while customers may pay more upfront, they quickly earn it back in the form of better productivity and fewer problems overall. You laugh at the iPhone's notch; I was able to unlock my colleague's android phone with a photo of her (with her knowledge and permission). Instead of Apple acquiring large companies like Netflix, Apple would instead opt to build up their services portfolio from scratch.

And the one point I don't see you or anyone here addressing head on is that while Apple has the smaller market share, developers continue to release apps for iOS first or exclusively, in part because Apple has successfully aggregated an affluent user base with a higher propensity to spend. Even if you are right in that I can find a cheaper android tablet with better specs, what's the point when the apps I have come to rely on for work and leisure (eg: lumafusion, notability, ivory, overcast, infuse, Play) aren't available on it?

Perhaps we should be trying to explain Apple's success, not explain it away. Apple's ecosystem is designed around people that easily spend money. It's a common trope around here that Apple gear is overpriced (which I disagree with) but given that, and their financials which are unlike any other comparable company, you can only conclude that Apple buyers do spend money, and a lot of it too. 

I'm end-to-end Apple gear, because I don't want to dick around with cobbling some system together, deal with any more accounts than I already have (200+ passwords in my 1Password - welcome to adulthood), or deal with security issues. I've worked hard and while I am not rich by any means, I have enough left over to still splurge on nice things every now and then after deducting expenses, and at this point in my life I want things to be easy more than I want them to be cheap.

I am Apple's target market. Is Apple Music lower quality or more expensive? I literally don't care. I just want to be able to pull up a song on my watch and stream it to my airpods no matter where I am. That's it. I don't have to install an app. I don't need to enter my l/p. I can airplay it to damn near everything. 

This is what Apple does. They rarely beat competitors on the bullet list, but when it comes to 'look at your phone and all your stuff is unlocked', they're unbeatable. They play the system integration game better than anyone else, and if it costs a few bucks more, I'm happy to pay it.

This is why I say - the moment you start to go into nitty gritty like specs, you have lost the plot, because that's not what the majority of Apple's user base bases their purchasing decisions on. It's one of those things which is really hard to quantify, but it obviously matters. Otherwise, Apple wouldn't be around, much less the size that they are today.

It sounds like you don't work with IT/tech people, so I'm not surprised that they need tech support for any phone, to be honest. I work in software and every Android user I know knows their phone inside and out. I could counter many of these points with actual experience, but it doesn't sound like you're willing to give the Android ecosystem an honest try, and that's okay. My goal is to broaden minds, not change them. 😊

However, I will say you're missing out on a lot in life by not experiencing things, be it tech or otherwise.
I am a primary school teacher, so the people around me are teachers as well, with varying degrees of comfort level surrounding technology, but generally, they are not the ones to tinker with devices as well. To give you a general idea, I am the one who showed them that they could plug in their android phone to their school laptop via a usb-c cable to drag files on and off their phones.

Ironically, the people I know don't seem to care about Dex because they need an external display, keyboard and mouse to make it work, and I also happen to be one of the very few with a monitor and dock at my desk. They simply don't see the point of it because for them, the purpose of a computer is to get things done, they already have their work-issued laptop for that, and a docked smartphone is simply a worse alternative for stuff like checking mail, working on google docs or preparing lesson resources.

As to your point about possibly missing out, I don't deny that. Perhaps if this were before the pandemic, I would still have been open to keeping a second phone around just to play with it. But since taking on a new portfolio (Maths) and with the arrival of a new principal, I have found myself busier in the past few years. The Nintendo Switch I purchased in 2020 has been lying on my desk largely unused. I miss the days when I was experimenting on how to make my new iPad work for me or playing around with the workflow app (now known as Shortcuts). I have stopped subscribing to all my streaming services save for YouTube Premium and Prime. And I go back to my earlier point about how I want things to work more than I want them to be cheap.

I don't care about being able to change keyboards or theme my phone or change launchers because they don't really do anything to make me more efficient. Productivity is my iPad connecting to my 2013 Apple TV flawlessly day after day after day. Productivity is annotating on pdf documents in notability using my Apple Pencil. Productivity is not having to worry that dropbox runs rampant in the background (like it did on my colleague's android phone) and killed her battery in half a day. And back when Tweetbot was still a thing, "productivity" was not having to deal with the Android version of the twitter app. 😬

I know it sounds like I am disparaging Android a lot. I am sure it has its strengths and its redeeming qualities, but so does iOS (and Apple), and if all you are doing is simply comparing Apple to everyone else and then go “Hey, Apple isn’t following what everyone else is doing, so I don’t think whatever Apple is doing is going to work”, I think they go down the wrong path, because you are comparing Apple too much to other companies, and you are not allowing Apple’s unique attributes to speak for themselves or recognise how Apple is able to set themselves apart from the competition.
 
I guess the point I am trying to make here is that my choice of smartphone is not really going to have a material impact on how well Apple does as a company. We can argue until the cows come home about how Google Assistant is better, about how there are cheaper alternatives that have 120hz refresh rate, about how Android supposedly does this or that one thing better, the fact is that people are buying iPhones (and other Apple products), and Apple is still making a ton of money.

It's a common recurring phenomenon where people like to latch on to news with the slightest hint of Apple negativity, and use it to paint the image of a rudderless company on the brink of irrelevance. Back when I first bought my 4s, there were already people on Cnet claiming that Android market share would dwarf that of iOS, how app developers would soon abandon the iOS App Store soon after, and yes, how Android hardware offered a better deal because they were cheaper and offered better specs on paper (the Google Nexus 7).

So yes, the arguments I see being made today are nothing new, and each and every time, Apple has gone on to do the exact opposite of what "experts" claimed they ought to do, and prospered for it. When people said they needed a netbook, Apple released the iPad. Instead of cheaper phones, Apple actually raised prices, while relying on the grey market and trade-in programmes to keep prices affordable (while at the same time leveraging their devices' longer durability, length of support and access to parts to maintain resale values). At the same time, instead of lowering prices, Apple banks on value, meaning that while customers may pay more upfront, they quickly earn it back in the form of better productivity and fewer problems overall. You laugh at the iPhone's notch; I was able to unlock my colleague's android phone with a photo of her (with her knowledge and permission). Instead of Apple acquiring large companies like Netflix, Apple would instead opt to build up their services portfolio from scratch.

And the one point I don't see you or anyone here addressing head on is that while Apple has the smaller market share, developers continue to release apps for iOS first or exclusively, in part because Apple has successfully aggregated an affluent user base with a higher propensity to spend. Even if you are right in that I can find a cheaper android tablet with better specs, what's the point when the apps I have come to rely on for work and leisure (eg: lumafusion, notability, ivory, overcast, infuse, Play) aren't available on it?

Perhaps we should be trying to explain Apple's success, not explain it away. Apple's ecosystem is designed around people that easily spend money. It's a common trope around here that Apple gear is overpriced (which I disagree with) but given that, and their financials which are unlike any other comparable company, you can only conclude that Apple buyers do spend money, and a lot of it too. 

I'm end-to-end Apple gear, because I don't want to dick around with cobbling some system together, deal with any more accounts than I already have (200+ passwords in my 1Password - welcome to adulthood), or deal with security issues. I've worked hard and while I am not rich by any means, I have enough left over to still splurge on nice things every now and then after deducting expenses, and at this point in my life I want things to be easy more than I want them to be cheap.

I am Apple's target market. Is Apple Music lower quality or more expensive? I literally don't care. I just want to be able to pull up a song on my watch and stream it to my airpods no matter where I am. That's it. I don't have to install an app. I don't need to enter my l/p. I can airplay it to damn near everything. 

This is what Apple does. They rarely beat competitors on the bullet list, but when it comes to 'look at your phone and all your stuff is unlocked', they're unbeatable. They play the system integration game better than anyone else, and if it costs a few bucks more, I'm happy to pay it.

This is why I say - the moment you start to go into nitty gritty like specs, you have lost the plot, because that's not what the majority of Apple's user base bases their purchasing decisions on. It's one of those things which is really hard to quantify, but it obviously matters. Otherwise, Apple wouldn't be around, much less the size that they are today.


I am a primary school teacher, so the people around me are teachers as well, with varying degrees of comfort level surrounding technology, but generally, they are not the ones to tinker with devices as well. To give you a general idea, I am the one who showed them that they could plug in their android phone to their school laptop via a usb-c cable to drag files on and off their phones.

Ironically, the people I know don't seem to care about Dex because they need an external display, keyboard and mouse to make it work, and I also happen to be one of the very few with a monitor and dock at my desk. They simply don't see the point of it because for them, the purpose of a computer is to get things done, they already have their work-issued laptop for that, and a docked smartphone is simply a worse alternative for stuff like checking mail, working on google docs or preparing lesson resources.

As to your point about possibly missing out, I don't deny that. Perhaps if this were before the pandemic, I would still have been open to keeping a second phone around just to play with it. But since taking on a new portfolio (Maths) and with the arrival of a new principal, I have found myself busier in the past few years. The Nintendo Switch I purchased in 2020 has been lying on my desk largely unused. I miss the days when I was experimenting on how to make my new iPad work for me or playing around with the workflow app (now known as Shortcuts). I have stopped subscribing to all my streaming services save for YouTube Premium and Prime. And I go back to my earlier point about how I want things to work more than I want them to be cheap.

I don't care about being able to change keyboards or theme my phone or change launchers because they don't really do anything to make me more efficient. Productivity is my iPad connecting to my 2013 Apple TV flawlessly day after day after day. Productivity is annotating on pdf documents in notability using my Apple Pencil. Productivity is not having to worry that dropbox runs rampant in the background (like it did on my colleague's android phone) and killed her battery in half a day. And back when Tweetbot was still a thing, "productivity" was not having to deal with the Android version of the twitter app. 😬

I know it sounds like I am disparaging Android a lot. I am sure it has its strengths and its redeeming qualities, but so does iOS (and Apple), and if all you are doing is simply comparing Apple to everyone else and then go “Hey, Apple isn’t following what everyone else is doing, so I don’t think whatever Apple is doing is going to work”, I think they go down the wrong path, because you are comparing Apple too much to other companies, and you are not allowing Apple’s unique attributes to speak for themselves or recognise how Apple is able to set themselves apart from the competition.
How can you even say all of this and at the same time never touched any other brand or experienced other eco-systems?
 
How can you even say all of this and at the same time never touched any other brand or experienced other eco-systems?

Like I said, I have a windows work laptop and I am exposed to android from time to time. I don’t need to actively venture outside of the Apple ecosystem to know what I am missing (or not).

And my point remains. The same refrain keeps getting parroted here - that I can evidently get a cheaper android phone with a better refresh rate. And the implication is that iOS users will suddenly “wake up” one morning and start abandoning the platform because of this. And reality is the complete opposite. You are all too eager to explain away Apple’s success, when you should be trying to explain it instead.

Apple keeps teaching, and everyone keeps ignoring.
 
Like I said, I have a windows work laptop and I am exposed to android from time to time. I don’t need to actively venture outside of the Apple ecosystem to know what I am missing (or not).

And my point remains. The same refrain keeps getting parroted here - that I can evidently get a cheaper android phone with a better refresh rate. And the implication is that iOS users will suddenly “wake up” one morning and start abandoning the platform because of this. And reality is the complete opposite. You are all too eager to explain away Apple’s success, when you should be trying to explain it instead.

Apple keeps teaching, and everyone keeps ignoring.
What success does Apple has lately? The stagnant one trick pony it has become? Or you mean the absurd amount of profits they make? In the last case… it’s nothing to be proud of. As a consumer you know that you’re paying too much for the product.

These days you’ll have to look to other manufacturers to see what’s coming from Apple over two years.

Looking at the rumors of the new iPhone 17… it’s a blatant copy of the google pixel.

But hey… when you’re happy with Apple solution and willingly paying much more for yesterday tech, I’m happy for you.

As for the educational parts… your school is better of buying Chromebooks and spending the money saved for other educational purposes 😊
 
What success does Apple has lately? The stagnant one trick pony it has become? Or you mean the absurd amount of profits they make? In the last case… it’s nothing to be proud of. As a consumer you know that you’re paying too much for the product.

It almost feels like you have either chosen to not read the last couple of posts I made in this thread, or plain decided to ignore them altogether.

You can choose to believe that Apple products have zero redeeming qualities whatsoever, and that users are paying too much for them. And then feign surprise and shock and anger every quarter when Apple shows that they are anything but doomed.

I will continue to buy my Apple products (have purchased an iPad Pro and Apple Watch this year) and we will let the market speak for itself. I have fought this battle for well over 10 years now. The outcome is and always will be, the same.
 
It almost feels like you have either chosen to not read the last couple of posts I made in this thread, or plain decided to ignore them altogether.

You can choose to believe that Apple products have zero redeeming qualities whatsoever, and that users are paying too much for them. And then feign surprise and shock and anger every quarter when Apple shows that they are anything but doomed.

I will continue to buy my Apple products (have purchased an iPad Pro and Apple Watch this year) and we will let the market speak for itself. I have fought this battle for well over 10 years now. The outcome is and always will be, the same.
I’m happy for you. All I try to say is that there are much better options around these days. Offering much more, high quality for a reasonable price. The reason many are starting to complain is because many of us have Apple in their hearts. It’s from the good old days when Apple was innovative and ahead of anyone else. That justified higher prices. The Apple of today puts little to no effort in being the best anymore but is still asking premium prices.

Together with the tactic to lock you in and making it very hard to switch, makes me angry and sad.

But there is hope on the horizon and the EU and the DOJ have Apple in their crosshairs to force Apple to play nice with others and opening up their walled garden. This gives users a free choice instead of dictator Apple forcing you to buy only Apple related things.

It happened with the cables, it happens too the App Store, Apple Pay, etc. Also you might benefit in an Apple that has to compete and will be forced to not overcharge you.

Unhappy with it? It’s free to you to donate your salary to Timmy each month 🤑
 
But there is hope on the horizon and the EU and the DOJ have Apple in their crosshairs to force Apple to play nice with others and opening up their walled garden. This gives users a free choice instead of dictator Apple forcing you to buy only Apple related things.

I have also written previously about my thoughts regarding how a Trump presidency might affect the aforementioned lawsuits. So all I will say for now is - we will just have to wait and see. With regard to the DOJ investigation at least, I think it’s completely without merit, and I suspect it won’t go anywhere.

Time will tell.
 
It's a common recurring phenomenon where people like to latch on to news with the slightest hint of Apple negativity, and use it to paint the image of a rudderless company on the brink of irrelevance. Back when I first bought my 4s, there were already people on Cnet claiming that Android market share would dwarf that of iOS, how app developers would soon abandon the iOS App Store soon after, and yes, how Android hardware offered a better deal because they were cheaper and offered better specs on paper (the Google Nexus 7).
To this point, in the business world, Android's global market share does dwarf Apple's, at over 71% this past quarter.
And the one point I don't see you or anyone here addressing head on is that while Apple has the smaller market share, developers continue to release apps for iOS first or exclusively, in part because Apple has successfully aggregated an affluent user base with a higher propensity to spend. Even if you are right in that I can find a cheaper android tablet with better specs, what's the point when the apps I have come to rely on for work and leisure (eg: lumafusion, notability, ivory, overcast, infuse, Play) aren't available on it?
I've never had any issues finding apps in the Google Play store. I'm sure there are apps in Google Play that you cannot find in the Apple App Store as well. This goes both ways.
Ironically, the people I know don't seem to care about Dex because they need an external display, keyboard and mouse to make it work, and I also happen to be one of the very few with a monitor and dock at my desk. They simply don't see the point of it because for them, the purpose of a computer is to get things done, they already have their work-issued laptop for that, and a docked smartphone is simply a worse alternative for stuff like checking mail, working on google docs or preparing lesson resources.
The purpose of Dex is 100% to get things done on a desktop that you can use nearly anywhere, at home (if/when needed) or when traveling. I never bring my work laptop with me when I travel, for obvious reasons, but I can get work done using Desktop Mode (Dex) if I have to. You don't need a keyboard and mouse to use Dex. Of course, a keyboard and mouse would make you more productive, but they are not needed to get work done.

Also, you've mentioned several times that Apple products are more expensive. When it comes to Android phones, which is what I've been commenting on, that couldn't be further from the truth. As one example...of the four Android phones I owned this past September, every single one of them was at least $600 more expensive than the comparable iPhone 16 Pro Max with 512GB of storage, and even more than $600 if you move up in storage. Apple is the one making cheap phones anymore. Yes, you can buy a $300 Android phone new, but who would do that unless they absolutely had to? I know I wouldn't. Even my backup phones cost at least $1000. But, there is nothing wrong with providing phones for people on the lower end of the income spectrum.

Also, you talk about using an iPad. I used to use an iPad Mini along with my iPhone all the time before the Z Fold 3 came along. Now, I would never go back to a slab phone again. Having a phone and mini 8" tablet in one slim and lightweight device is outstanding, and it is something Apple simply doesn't offer. This is what I mean when I talk about people missing out. If I hadn't jumped ship on iPhone and bought the Z Fold 3 back when I did, I would legitimately be missing out. And, I hate to mention this again because it has been mentioned ad nauseum, but Apple will most likely release a foldable phone at some point and when they do, you are going to see a complete 180 by the vast majority of foldable haters here at MR. It doesn't matter if it will be a flip-style or book-style foldable, they will sell in large numbers. I would bet a large amount of money on that. I would hope they go with the book-style foldable and not the flip.

"I am Apple's target market. Is Apple Music lower quality or more expensive? I literally don't care."

This is why Apple currently has the relatively small market share it does. Because a lot of people, for now anyway, will buy Apple products no matter what. For many reasons, one of them being they think they will be the "cool kid" for having Apple this or that. As absurd as this sounds, it is true. The tide is changing on this though.

Anyway, I appreciate the respectful conversation. I always take something away from these. Have a great weekend!
 
To this point, in the business world, Android's global market share does dwarf Apple's, at over 71% this past quarter.
Which people love to point out, and which I respond with - to what end?

The iPhone commands the lion's share of profits in the smartphone market, iOS app sales are typically twice or thrice that of the google play store, what exactly is the value of that larger market share again?
I've never had any issues finding apps in the Google Play store. I'm sure there are apps in Google Play that you cannot find in the Apple App Store as well. This goes both ways.
Except I am not trying to convert you from android to iOS; I am explaining why I have little interest in switching from iOS to Android, because first and foremost, I know I would likely not be able to find 1:1 replacements for the apps I love to use.

As a thought experiment, let's say I were to ditch my iPhone and get a Samsung phone tomorrow. What's the closest alternative I can use for the following apps?

1) Notability - PDF annotation and notetaking, PDF Expert
2) Play - presents YouTube channels as a RSS feed and lets me save them to a inbox to view (I can sync this to my Apple TV as well)
3) Reeder 5 - RSS feed
4) Lumafusion - for video editing, though I admittedly have used it far less of late
5) Overcast - podcast player
6) Infuse - for playing video files
7) 1password
8) Ivory - 3rd party Mastodon Client
9) Things - Task manager (I guess there's Todoist?)
10) This one is technically cheating, since I no longer use it, but Fantastical?
11) Lookup - 3rd party dictionary app
This is why Apple currently has the relatively small market share it does. Because a lot of people, for now anyway, will buy Apple products no matter what. For many reasons, one of them being they think they will be the "cool kid" for having Apple this or that. As absurd as this sounds, it is true. The tide is changing on this though.
I know people who pay $3000 for a leather handbag, and I am not going to tell them that they are spending their money wrong. Apple has the smaller market share because their stuff does cost more, but there will always be people willing to pay more for a better user experience. Their market share may fluctuate a few percentage points here and there, but I don't see people abandoning the Apple ecosystem en-mass.

Nor am I worried about Apple having the smaller market share. Apple users buy iPhones first and foremost because we want to use iOS. This gives Apple durable market share and pricing power because they are the sole provider of iOS devices. This is a feature, not a bug. If Apple charges more, I am willing to pay more. If Apple's margins improve because they are able to lower the costs of their products, good for them. We are not being held captive and trapped in a walled garden against our wills. To imply otherwise is to ignore consumer choices and the very real innovation that Apple has undertaken to create and continually update the iPhone for the last 17 years. Not to mention the numerous Android handset manufacturers who have gone under during this time as well.

For some reason, this is a concept that many critics seem to find difficult to understand, much less accept. That maybe iPhone users just don't want to switch, and that we have our own legitimate reasons for this?
 
I’m happy for you. All I try to say is that there are much better options around these days.
Yes agree. It’s up to the individual to make that determination.
Offering much more, high quality for a reasonable price.
Price vs value is highly subjective.
The reason many are starting to complain is because many of us have Apple in their hearts.
Many? Apple has 1 billion customers. Are you saying 500 million are complaining? Or is it the vocal minority on Mac rumors?
It’s from the good old days when Apple was innovative and ahead of anyone else. That justified higher prices. The Apple of today puts little to no effort in being the best anymore but is still asking premium prices.
Yes. In your opinion.
Together with the tactic to lock you in and making it very hard to switch, makes me angry and sad.
What tactic is that, that exists today that wasn’t there with the iPhone 4 let’s say?
But there is hope on the horizon and the EU and the DOJ have Apple in their crosshairs to force Apple to play nice with others and opening up their walled garden.
Nothing will come of this in the US for various reasons.
This gives users a free choice instead of dictator Apple forcing you to buy only Apple related things.
So does voting with your $$$.
It happened with the cables, it happens too the App Store, Apple Pay, etc. Also you might benefit in an Apple that has to compete and will be forced to not overcharge you.
Competition is great? That’s what Mac rumors posters keep parroting. Overcharging is not a crime.
Unhappy with it? It’s free to you to donate your salary to Timmy each month 🤑
And I do.
 
1. iPhones have superior cameras. This is proven out in comparison tests carried out over and over.

For example TechRadar: https://www.techradar.com/news/best-cameraphone

Or Tom’s Hardware

2. Android phones have more RAM because they NEED more RAM to perform. Having a higher number doesn’t mean better.

3. What are these “real world” tests. No points if it’s from a pro-Android source.



Quicker release of mediocre to bad software isn’t a plus. And most of the leading AI tools are cross platform (like CharGPT). What are some specific examples of superior AI driven software that’s only available on Android?


I use both every day (Android for work only fortunately) and this is very much not true in actual use. There is still a significant gap in UI experience and performance for Android compared to iOS. Android wins in customization and that’s about it.
you certainly don't seem very educated when it comes to flagship android devices. The fact you have used an article to judge cameras is a bad one when that article only mentioned apple, samsung and google. There are tons of other great camera phones on android which blow away all of those cameras. UI wise there is basically no difference in software/fluidness and overall usability.

Android does need more RAM as it handles things differently and it's fair to say you can do more on them so more ram depending on the device you need that extra ram certainly for Al.
 
Together with the tactic to lock you in and making it very hard to switch, makes me angry and sad.
With regards to this, I have always felt that tight integration and "lock in" are but two sides of the same coin.

One reason why the apple watch works as well as it does with my iPhone precisely because of that integration. Is it "unfair" that the Apple Watch does not work with android phones, or that Apple reserves certain functionality (like Siri access) only for their own products and does not make them available to third parties? Perhaps, but at the same time, I feel there should be a limit to what Apple is expected to do in order to prop up the competition, especially if it does not result in any benefit to itself.

For example, sure, I suppose it is technically possible for the Apple Watch to be made to work with an android phone, but then Apple would probably have to invest a lot more work and effort on the compatibility, and it still may not work very well either, and maybe the market just isn't there (how many android users are willing to pay $800 for an Apple Watch Ultra?). At the same time, Apple spent so much resources on developing custom APIs, and if you tell Apple they are expected to make them freely available to third parties in the name of "fair play" who can then come in and undercut Apple because they didn't need to spend a cent on R&D, and Apple can't even charge them a licensing fee to recoup those costs (and yet everyone here expects Apple to just pay Masimo to license their blood oxygen tech), I find that hard to accept as well.

If you want less lock in, the end result is simply that Apple products are less integrated with one another (eg: no airdrop between iPhone and iPad, or no iCloud photo library, or no iPhone mirroring in the EU at the moment), thus making them more interchangeable with the competition. Kinda like owning a windows laptop and an android smartphone right now. Sure, I have a PC and a phone, and that's pretty much it. Would consumers really be better off in this scenario, or do they lose out by way of not being to access added functionality they might have had were the two devices allowed to talk to each other better?

I don't think people really understand what it means to see less lock in from Apple. It just means the death of everything that makes Apple uniquely Apple.
 
With regards to this, I have always felt that tight integration and "lock in" are but two sides of the same coin.

One reason why the apple watch works as well as it does with my iPhone precisely because of that integration. Is it "unfair" that the Apple Watch does not work with android phones, or that Apple reserves certain functionality (like Siri access) only for their own products and does not make them available to third parties? Perhaps, but at the same time, I feel there should be a limit to what Apple is expected to do in order to prop up the competition, especially if it does not result in any benefit to itself.

For example, sure, I suppose it is technically possible for the Apple Watch to be made to work with an android phone, but then Apple would probably have to invest a lot more work and effort on the compatibility, and it still may not work very well either, and maybe the market just isn't there (how many android users are willing to pay $800 for an Apple Watch Ultra?). At the same time, Apple spent so much resources on developing custom APIs, and if you tell Apple they are expected to make them freely available to third parties in the name of "fair play" who can then come in and undercut Apple because they didn't need to spend a cent on R&D, and Apple can't even charge them a licensing fee to recoup those costs (and yet everyone here expects Apple to just pay Masimo to license their blood oxygen tech), I find that hard to accept as well.

If you want less lock in, the end result is simply that Apple products are less integrated with one another (eg: no airdrop between iPhone and iPad, or no iCloud photo library, or no iPhone mirroring in the EU at the moment), thus making them more interchangeable with the competition. Kinda like owning a windows laptop and an android smartphone right now. Sure, I have a PC and a phone, and that's pretty much it. Would consumers really be better off in this scenario, or do they lose out by way of not being to access added functionality they might have had were the two devices allowed to talk to each other better?

I don't think people really understand what it means to see less lock in from Apple. It just means the death of everything that makes Apple uniquely Apple.
When it comes to lock in, why is Apple expected to know and deal with every other bit of hardware out there and make their device work with it?

Plenty of Android stuff doesn't play nice with Apple hardware.

Guess I'm long used to stuff that just doesnt work on hardware that it could in theory...
game consoles... they expect you to buy a licence for the same game on each console.

But that was too big a can of worms for one group to take on ;)
So they make some arbitrary threshold that excludes them ...

People say they are locked in.
But you often find the same apps on both platforms.
So you could swap if you really wanted to.
Even put your data in the cloud to access it on the other device.
Your data tied to a Cloud account solves many issues.

Least now we have better tools to do this.
Remember old phones and having to manually add Contacts using a T9 keypad? ;)
Even moving from one telco to another... how many forgot their photos and music and contacts were in the device and not on the SIM card?

And media consumption?
How many of us owned a cassette, an vinyl album, a CD and now stream and effectively paid each time for the same songs?
VHS, DVD, BluRay, 4K... every time tech moved on and you upgraded because the quality improvement was there.

The the media players needed upgrading because of copy protection protocols or codecs they didnt support or newer more efficient ones took over. Surround sound standards... Stereo, 5.1, Dolby, Atmos, DTS... tech life has always been about change. And that costs money.

Fortunately we've pretty much reached peak consumption media format and wont have to do it again.
 
you certainly don't seem very educated when it comes to flagship android devices. The fact you have used an article to judge cameras is a bad one when that article only mentioned apple, samsung and google. There are tons of other great camera phones on android which blow away all of those cameras. UI wise there is basically no difference in software/fluidness and overall usability.

Android does need more RAM as it handles things differently and it's fair to say you can do more on them so more ram depending on the device you need that extra ram certainly for Al.
can you list those Android devices with cameras that "blow away" Apple, Samsung and Google cams please?
I'd love to look at comparison reports by photographic experts who can assess them.
 
With regards to this, I have always felt that tight integration and "lock in" are but two sides of the same coin.

One reason why the apple watch works as well as it does with my iPhone precisely because of that integration. Is it "unfair" that the Apple Watch does not work with android phones, or that Apple reserves certain functionality (like Siri access) only for their own products and does not make them available to third parties? Perhaps, but at the same time, I feel there should be a limit to what Apple is expected to do in order to prop up the competition, especially if it does not result in any benefit to itself.

For example, sure, I suppose it is technically possible for the Apple Watch to be made to work with an android phone, but then Apple would probably have to invest a lot more work and effort on the compatibility, and it still may not work very well either, and maybe the market just isn't there (how many android users are willing to pay $800 for an Apple Watch Ultra?). At the same time, Apple spent so much resources on developing custom APIs, and if you tell Apple they are expected to make them freely available to third parties in the name of "fair play" who can then come in and undercut Apple because they didn't need to spend a cent on R&D, and Apple can't even charge them a licensing fee to recoup those costs (and yet everyone here expects Apple to just pay Masimo to license their blood oxygen tech), I find that hard to accept as well.

If you want less lock in, the end result is simply that Apple products are less integrated with one another (eg: no airdrop between iPhone and iPad, or no iCloud photo library, or no iPhone mirroring in the EU at the moment), thus making them more interchangeable with the competition. Kinda like owning a windows laptop and an android smartphone right now. Sure, I have a PC and a phone, and that's pretty much it. Would consumers really be better off in this scenario, or do they lose out by way of not being to access added functionality they might have had were the two devices allowed to talk to each other better?

I don't think people really understand what it means to see less lock in from Apple. It just means the death of everything that makes Apple uniquely Apple.
Apple deliberately don’t open up their API’s so others aren’t able to play nice with Apple gear. A Samsung galaxy watch for example could give you the same integration as an Apple Watch if Apple would let others use their API’s. It’s up to third party venders if they want or not to write software. But at this time Apple is prohibiting them to do so. That’s monopolistic behavior. Apple is notorious for that. If Apple wanted, it could make their Apple Watch play nicely with Android because the API’s to to so are open to everyone.

The argument that Apple’s closed system is giving users a fully integrated experience is plain wrong when other vendors could give you the same experience when Apple opened up their API’s. It had nothing to do with safety or other vague reasons Apple is using. Its main reason is money and get you locked in.

The same functionality Apple is offering will be able to others. Apple is deliberately crippling them.
 
Apple deliberately don’t open up their API’s so others aren’t able to play nice with Apple gear. A Samsung galaxy watch for example could give you the same integration as an Apple Watch if Apple would let others use their API’s. It’s up to third party venders if they want or not to write software. But at this time Apple is prohibiting them to do so. That’s monopolistic behavior. Apple is notorious for that. If Apple wanted, it could make their Apple Watch play nicely with Android because the API’s to to so are open to everyone.

I agree that Apple could do so, and at the same time, they don’t need to, and while it may not be to my advantage, I don’t think they should be forced to do so. At least not for free.

It’s why I feel the DoJ lawsuit is nonsense and expect to see it thrown out altogether.

If I were running Apple, I wouldn’t want to spend all that time and resources creating the foundations underpinning the Apple Watch, only to give it away to Samsung for free and watch them undercut my offerings. There is no justification behind this unless you specifically have an axe to grind with Apple.

This is why Apple products have so small market share, but their products are profitable. Their business model is in direct contrast to Google’s, where they gave away Android for free (in exchange for your data). I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect the same of Apple without some other form of remuneration on their end.
 
In mine, I haven't seen anyone switch sides in any capacity, but they also don't talk about their phones and don't care about them enough to even be pointed out or mentioned.

Smartphones are boring now, across the board. Not because of what any company is doing, but because they are common, commodity devices.
Cars are also a commodity; but you’re right people don’t talk about civics and corollas.
 
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