iPhone SDK Delay? Another Touch Device?

[paul.b.davis]

Like a multifunction device that would be the remote for the Apple TV? Curious..

I think that would be ultra cool. And expand it, lets say it could interact as a remote control for any Mac via bluetooth or wifi. You could use it as a semi mobil extending screen for showing people things, just drag a window onto it from your screen.

then when you are away from home it still functions as a super PDA/mini tablet with badass multitouch

 

[Rogzilla]

No...this wont be the MacBook air.

I think a lot of the talk here is right. It is a larger (not the 5.25 thing AppleInsider mentioned a while ago, it would seem silly after the recent iPod touch/iPhone updates... especially if they are releasing/announcing it on Feb 26 as I suspect.) tablet, at least 7", no more than 10". At this size, it would use Apple's Multitouch 2.0 and, if so, yes Yankee, there will be the option of pen input.

I would like to see it act as an extension of my iMac, allowing me to stream to it over my AirPort Extreme while I am home and continue to access through .Mac. With Bluetooth, we could pair a keyboard with it when we need to type. Use a pen when we need to draw (like a Wacom device). Making it a remote for the Apple TV would add to its functionality, making it a must have for an Apple household, especially one with a desktop. It would be portability for us.

Heck, at the 10" size, we could set up a screensaver to run in "sleep mode" that turns it into a digital photo frame.

Hmmm. Connectivity wise, it will follow the MacBook air and go for minimalism, wouldn't it? A mini DVI out, at least one USB port, maybe 2, headphone jack. No ethernet (USB dongle will work but really, this shouldn't be tethered like that). Plug it in to charge (Magsafe). HAS TO HAVE GOOD BATTERY LIFE! At least as good as a MacBook.

Finally, it will be able to sit up by having a stand built into the back that pops out. Knowing Apple, it will seem to completely disappear when closed but be fully stable when out.

This is all speculation...but hey, that would be awesome and I would pay about $800 for it!

 

[winterspan]

1. No MMS & No forwarding SMS - without jalibreak
2. No native chat without jailbreak (and they suck)
3. No GPS
4. No themes without jailbreak
5. Phone locked to 1 provider - Lame

1. its called email & every phone has it. its cheaper to have edge/3g than mms and it better
2. Update (hence SDK at the end of the month)
3. Locate Me - drop a pin where your area is and it works almost the same way + GPS just lowers the battery life and remember its a 1G device.
4. It looks ugly and is you get a white background you cant see titles.
5. the iPhone wouldn't exist without a 5yr contract.

1. Everyphone has email? What parallel universe are you living in? MMS is very popular and I find it incredible such an oversight could be made on the iPhone.
2. Native (non jail-break) chat will be here soon
3. "Locate Me" only works in major cities, and is only accurate to like 1000m. GPS is needed in V.2
4. themes, customization, etc will be provided for with the SDK
5. The iPhone would most definitely exist, but Apple wouldn't be raking in the contract cash

Why would there be stuff for writing Air apps on the iPhone software?
And the 360/PS3 comparison is strange. I've read many many articles that say the PS3 is easier to write for...

Not to get to far of topic, but no, the Playstation 3 platform is a much more involved system to develop games for. The Cell BE's asymmetric PowerPC + 7 "SPE" parallel programming model has to be explicitly managed by the programmer, where as the XBOX 360's parallelism is automatic. However, I believe 2008 will be the year that it will take off. Many of the new game titles look to be quite amazing. We are finally starting to see developers take advantage of all the power in the system.

Since it's in the iPhone's OS X software I bet it's going to be one of two things:
A simulator for running iPhone/iPod Touch apps on your computer or Something like a big iPod Touch.

The simulator is already listed.

I have to agree with you there. But then what's the simulator?

A device in the Apple labs that can simulate anything they want, sounds really cool, but probably not.

No.. the simulator is most likely the iPhone/Touch platform emulator for development/debugging purposes on your computer.

I think a lot of the talk here is right. It is a larger (not the 5.25 thing AppleInsider mentioned a while ago, it would seem silly after the recent iPod touch/iPhone updates... especially if they are releasing/announcing it on Feb 26 as I suspect.) tablet, at least 7", no more than 10". At this size, it would use Apple's Multitouch 2.0 and, if so, yes Yankee, there will be the option of pen input.
I would like to see it act as an extension of my iMac, allowing me to stream to it over my AirPort Extreme while I am home and continue to access through .Mac. With Bluetooth, we could pair a keyboard with it when we need to type. Use a pen when we need to draw (like a Wacom device). Making it a remote for the Apple TV would add to its functionality, making it a must have for an Apple household, especially one with a desktop. It would be portability for us.

I may just be lacking "the vision", but I just don't see a "mini-tablet" being viable for the mainstream. I find it difficult to envision a (useful) maass market device that fits between your iPhone/Touch and laptop computer.
Don't get me wrong, I think this type of thing could be compelling for entertainment value, but I just don't see any practical uses. More of a novelty like device that's used for browsing the web at home. Now I can understand why some might want a full-sized tablet/laptop for use in the lecture hall to take notes or for specialized applications like healthcare, etc.
Can someone give me some use cases or applications for this type of device? Are you thinking like the Nokia tablet size or bigger?

 

[macinfojunkie]

is it possible that the N82 is the rumored 3G version of the iphone?

or even possibly a second gen? (soon I know, but possible)

All the other cell phone companies release updates more than once a year. Why would Apple be any different. I'm sure the next version has been in development long before the first version was even released.

IMHO the 1st version is a compromise product (albeit a rather good one) to fill the gap until the components they wanted to use came down in size/power/cost. Of course some suckers will complain that their 2 year lock in device is then out of date, but nobody forced them to buy the first version! But if AT&T allow an upgrade path then, everyone should be happy.

The tip of the iceberg on what they can do with these kinds of devices is only just emerging. I think those that held off purchasing the handset until all the issues are ironed out and we have better battery life, more software functionality and 3G will be rewarded with a much more polished product. They'll be very grateful to the early adopters.

 

[rt_brained]

Waiting for this one to be added:

Platforms = (N10_Doh!)

 

[Rogzilla]

I may just be lacking "the vision", but I just don't see a "mini-tablet" being viable for the mainstream. I find it difficult to envision a (useful) maass market device that fits between your iPhone/Touch and laptop computer.
Don't get me wrong, I think this type of thing could be compelling for entertainment value, but I just don't see any practical uses. More of a novelty like device that's used for browsing the web at home. Now I can understand why some might want a full-sized tablet/laptop for use in the lecture hall to take notes or for specialized applications like healthcare, etc.
Can someone give me some use cases or applications for this type of device? Are you thinking like the Nokia tablet size or bigger?

Well, to answer your last question first, I imagine this device would be at least 7", like I said above.

The key market of this device is to appeal to desktop users (both PC and Mac users) who need a portable device that isn't a whole second computer. Perhaps the best way to put it is like an oversized PDA. You would need something to carry it in as it would be too big to fit into any pockets. However, since I rarely see people without some sort of bag at one point during the day (briefcase, laptop bag, or messenger bag to name some examples). Don't need a keyboard all the time? Don't carry one, it will still have the software one.

If it helps, equate this more to an Eee, but in tablet form. This isn't your only computer, it is just the one that you carry with you.

Work on reports on the go without having to get out a much heavier laptop. Use it as a digital portfolio to show to clients (if you are in a creative field). Use the multitouch 2.0 and use a pen to take notes during class.

I really can't see how anyone (especially desktop users) WOULDN'T want this device! If Apple charges less than $1000, then they will dominate the tablet PC, MID and UMPC market like they do MP3 players.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Do you have an iPhone? I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I'd say the software on the iPhone is pretty great

Besides missing MMS (which is a huge deal, even though I don't use it), I'd say that the iPhone sets the bar pretty high!

You don't have to have an iPhone to judge the thing. Saying that is really a very lame cop out excuse to belittle someone's valid opinion or facts. Bbplayer has his opinion of the phone and backs it up with facts, the way it should be.

Many iPhone users just have their own opinion. I don't have the iPhone and have more reasons than Bbplayer for NOT getting one, and thinking that Apple has really let a lot of users down with it.

1. No MMS & No forwarding SMS - without jalibreak
2. No native chat without jailbreak (and they suck)
3. No GPS
4. No themes without jailbreak
5. Phone locked to 1 provider - Lame

Given their track record, Apple will neuter this SDK and not allow devs to do anything good.

Add to this
6. AT&T has no insurance for the phone
7. AT&T's EDGE is slow as hell
8. No Phone as modem options without a jailbreak
9. No productivity apps w/o JB
10. No disk use (maybe with JB???) like iPod
11. No future compatibility with 3G or WIMax
12. No other keyboard options (XT9 or something other than the tiny one)
13. No copy paste

All of these features are in many phone today, including my HTC Touch which is great except for the buggy Window Mobile 6. If Apple took their award winning UI and put it into a real phone on another more powerful instead of gimmicky network then we'd have something.

Right now, I can't see how people put the iPhone into the same category as the other smart phones.

And owning a device doesn't discredit someone's opinion or facts.

 

[matthewlesh]

I don't see Apple coming out with a new Laptop so soon after the MacBook Air.. EDIT: Removes the whole Hype factor

I think it's most likely a touch cinema display screen.. something Apple is due for an update of...

 

[Agathon]

1. No MMS & No forwarding SMS - without jalibreak
2. No native chat without jailbreak (and they suck)
3. No GPS
4. No themes without jailbreak
5. Phone locked to 1 provider - Lame

Your first three points have little merit (chat will undoubtedly be fixed with the SDK). GPS is an expensive battery hog. Complaining about lack of 3G is more reasonable, but that is also a battery hog.

Complaining about the lack of themes is ridiculous. This is one case in which less is clearly more. What are themes other than opportunities for idiots to wreck the GUI on their machine. The graphics are the way they are because of weeks of painstaking work on trying to make the interface as intuitive and obvious as possible. Then some clown comes along and reduces the intuitive nature of the interface because he wants to make it look "pretty" or "sci-fi".

Apple deliberately restricts the theme changes you can make on its devices. One look at the usability disaster that is Windows theming should be enough to tell you why.

If the iPhone wasn't locked to one provider, you probably wouldn't get visual voicemail or some of the other cool things that Apple and AT&T are likely to partner on. The whole point of Apple products is to make the user experience identical across all products. Having multiple providers would frustrate that long standing Apple goal.

I wonder how long you have followed the company. This is basic stuff that any long term user of Apple products should have grasped by now.

 

[overanalyzer]

If the iPhone wasn't locked to one provider, you probably wouldn't get visual voicemail or some of the other cool things that Apple and AT&T are likely to partner on. The whole point of Apple products is to make the user experience identical across all products. Having multiple providers would frustrate that long standing Apple goal.

The iPhone isn't locked to one provider, just one provider per market. Considering that's still ending up being many companies across the world and they're all implementing the necessary technology, I disagree with you on this particular point. I think the reason for the exclusive deals isn't to get the technology working but rather to get the buy in and support from a major provider in each market to help Apple enter the mobile phone market, which is clearly dominated by a small handful of companies and is much harder to break into than the MP3 market was with the iPod because Apple entered and shaped the MP3 market at a time when it was all pretty new. And I think given the rate of adoption of the iPhone, particularly with all its feature shortcomings and foreseeable improvements, is proof this strategy is working wonderfully.

 

[jacekwo]

Umm. No

I disagree. I think we all know what the "new" device is. How about there I'd one touch device no one is talking about. The MacBook air's touchpad. It only makes sense...

 

[Rogzilla]

I disagree. I think we all know what the "new" device is. How about there I'd one touch device no one is talking about. The MacBook air's touchpad. It only makes sense...

But that doesn't make any sense. I mean...why would it be where it was? It doesn't run the same OS, it doesn't even use all the multitouch patterns. In fact, it seems a lot more complicated.

No, it ain't the air.

 

[jacekwo]

Support for the air

But that doesn't make any sense. I mean...why would it be where it was? It doesn't run the same OS, it doesn't even use all the multitouch patterns. In fact, it seems a lot more complicated.

No, it ain't the air.

There is one think your missing. The air has a chip dedicated to the multi touch. It may found as firmware, but it is definately an OS.
Dedicated chip is as per dissection done by one of the other sitesof the air.

 

[Rogzilla]

There is one think your missing. The air has a chip dedicated to the multi touch. It may found as firmware, but it is definately an OS.
Dedicated chip is as per dissection done by one of the other sitesof the air.

...um...I have no idea what you are trying to say. Seriously. Not in the mean guy on the internet trying to make someone who disagrees with him feel bad and not counter argue. I would love to make a counterpoint...but I don't know what your point IS!

I know that the it has a chip dedicated to multitouch. But why then would it be a platform for the multitouch OS (which is my understanding here)?

 

[Rogzilla]

I wonder if this is any relation? I mean if Apple were to come out with a gaming handheld wouldn't it make sense if it ran the same OS as the iPhone/Touch?

http://www.trademork.com/apple/

Yeah I saw this on 9to5 Mac. I dunno but it is a definite possibility.

 

[nxent]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)



what other functionality does a PDA have? iPhones are PDAs too.

a full calendar, task list, the ability to edit, add, and remove events in that calendar. since the iphone was designed to be a phone +ipod, the pda interface is more of an afterthought.

 

[jacekwo]

Still on the multi-touch track-pad...

...um...I have no idea what you are trying to say. Seriously. Not in the mean guy on the internet trying to make someone who disagrees with him feel bad and not counter argue. I would love to make a counterpoint...but I don't know what your point IS!

I know that the it has a chip dedicated to multitouch. But why then would it be a platform for the multitouch OS (which is my understanding here)?

The point being that just because it is firmware doesn't preclude it from being a development platform nor an operating system. What I am suggesting here is merely that the multi-touch system that runs the touch-pad of the MacBook Air can definitely be improved on. The best way to get ideas in to the company would be to release an SDK and therefore allow developers outside of the company to have a whack at it.
Just because there is no screen interface doesn't mean that there cannot be development for the platform. I'm saying that there are more gestures to be programmed. There are more motions that need integration. I think that having Hot Corners style integration would be awesome, and this would be an outside idea that could be integrated by the SDK inclusion.

Besides. Anyone who doesn't think that this multi-touch track-pad isn't its own creature is sorely mistaken. This thing will start appearing on all of the coming laptops (pros at least) and will need to be tweaked to do so. A release of modification of the system for the purpose of multi-system integration only makes sense.

 

[jacekwo]

However

However, I would love to have a larger iPhone type device. About 6"-8" with wifi, bluetooth, infared and the ability to run OS X, not toned down, but large scale. I think that with the release of the ultra-portable processors, this could be possible.

No keyboard, no mouse, just touch. It would make sense of the technology that they developed for the Air to be able to mount CD's wirelessly.

 

[dgdosen]

Tweak that a bit...

However, I would love to have a larger iPhone type device. About 6"-8" with wifi, bluetooth, infared and the ability to run OS X, not toned down, but large scale. I think that with the release of the ultra-portable processors, this could be possible.

No keyboard, no mouse, just touch. It would make sense of the technology that they developed for the Air to be able to mount CD's wirelessly.

Adding/Updating a few features:
-DVI/Optical out - need to drive a monitor/tv
-- see pics on the TV!
-- see quick video on the TV!
-BT - why not use a BT keyboard and mouse?
-- I want to use it like a PC if I want
-Power it with a mag safe adapter
-add a USB port
-- about as much connectivity as the MBA
-MS Exchange connectivity support (for the enterprise)
-802.1x support (for the enterprise)

Not sure if you need to run the full OS X or OS X lite - If I can do everything I can on an iPhone AND run at least some kind of PIM software AND install at least some other non-connected apps - I think it might be possibility. I really like the instant on of this type of device, so that may mean we need to use OS X Lite...

That would truly be a market defining device and, as I said before, something I'd carry with me everywhere. While the under 20 crowd carries a sidekick everywhere - the over 30 crowd would carry one of these everywhere....

my .02...

 

[wizard]

Perhaps the extra device is the iPhone nano.

Tablet would be nice but then again its kinda hard to imagine how it would play out.

It would play out very well for me. Something with a 4.5 inch HD display would be ideal.

Perhaps there will be an invisible hardware upgrade in the near future or the leap to 3G is already being planned.

Well yeah the leap to 3G is being planned, both Apple and AT&T has said so. I don't believe there will be invisible updates I very much believe that there will be new iPod like devices that have extended capabilities. It is not like the iPods need a lot but a few tweaks and features added could make for a real lock on the market.

Dave

 

[wizard]

Hi all,
hopefully the SDK delay is not true... iPodTouch/iPhone platform needs it to succeed!

It also needs to be opened up a bit.

Regarding "Another Touch Device" .... I'm really waiting it!

Yep me too. Mainly for a bigger screen and evidence that Apple will support the OS properly. By this I mean the BlueTooth stack which is very pathetic.

What I need from a new device:
- Play Music/Video etc (iPodTouch is perfect ... but please more codec)

Then it is not perfect. I understand what you are saying but these devices are far from perfect, it si basically generation 1 technology. Some might even call it prototyped hardware.

- Internet browser (iPodTouch is perfect ... but not complete)

Again if it is perfect then why fix it. In fact I would have to say that the internet browser is the one thing that needs the most work on the Touch devices. I know this is like a figure of speech but for the browser you are way off.

- Touch qwerty keyboard (iPodTouch has it... but too small for my fingers)

Even a modestly larger device would help hugely here. I have beg hands and find most cell phones to be fumblely to operate. The Touch screens are actually better than some of the mini cell phones on the market. But a larger screen would really improve on usability with respect to Apples devices.

- Bluetooth: All the profiles for audio,video, data sharing and to connect to wireless keyboard.

Yeah I can't understand Apples problem with Bluetooth. It is key to leveraging the SDK. Many of the new apps possilbe will need to communicate with the local world, Bluetooth on a hand held device is key to that sort of communications.

This is another item I'm holding out for. If Apple can't give us the drivers we need I may very well end up going with a Linux based device.

- Pen: I would like to be able to sketch some notes and drawings
- PDF/books reader: This is a main scope, I will use it on the train, I want to read, take notes, highlite.. Current iPodTouch seems to have bad resolution for reading.... fix this please...

Yeah I think this is another thing that Apple is missing the boat on. A PDF reader is great for people that need to travel with documentation and info. So would the ability to read HTML stored locally. When it comes right down to it Apple needs to deliver file system access. Both in its supplied apps and for third party apps.

- mini/microSD reader: it would allow for extending capacity

Well yes and no. The reader should be a full size SD card or compact flash reader. My usage would be different than yours too as I want to be able to read cards from my cameras.

What I do not need from a new device:
- Phone: I like to have a separate and small phone. It is risky to carry around such a precious device every time. Too easy to loose/break/scratch/steal ...

Well yes and no again. A phone isn't any easier to loose than an iPod. The problem with Apples Cell phone isn't that it is a Cell phone but rather that one has zero choice in providers. In my case spending $60 dollars a month for a cell phone plan is silly when I pay $15 a month for the current one.

In other words I'd be interested in a Cell capability if it wasn't tied to a specific carrier.

- GPS: I already have GPS in my car... and google maps is more than enough when I'm around

Well again some of us don't use GPS in a car and google maps don't do diddley for you in the woods. I think the key here is simply giving people a choice. What Apple needs more than anything is a product line up not a single iPhone.

I'm currently looking around to buy such a device... current candidates are Nokia N810, Archos 605WIFI 30Gb and iPodTouch 16Gb.

Hey I'm looking at the same.

In my opinion none of these completely satisfy me.... I will wait few months more...

Yeah I'm most surprised with nokia in that they really blew it with the N810. They totally missed the need for FLASH STORAGE in the N810. it is otherwise an interesting machine.

Archos and Nokia seems very good but.. hey... how can I have such a powerful device but not enjoying the super UI developed by Apple? No way.. I want it! I need it!

Now that isn't really the correct way to look at it as each device does have an interesting approach to the user. More so with Nokia is that vast amount of software already available for the devices. Te thing that really turned me off to Nokia is the Flash issue above not the units interface or software.

Please "dear" Apple.... increase the size of you iPod touch by 1 or 2", add full bluetooth, put a stylish pen in the bigger body , if you have space for an easy-to-access minisd reader that would be great...

Yeah that would be great, that is a larger screen. By virtue of the larger screen and thus larger PC board and battery area a lot can be added to a Touch like device. Much more than maybe some people would imagine. Especially considering the huge development effort going into processors for the cell and device market. The next round of devices should be even more powerful and use less power as in watts than the current devices. The SOC online or scheduled for this year are pretty amazing which leads to fewer chips on board or more functions in the same space.

Then it is just a matter of software development.... I'm patient ... I will give you some more month to develop new "great" functionalities... you demonstrated you are able to do it... and you will release new software for free... I'm glad you are doing this to my appleTV... I bought it the first day because I believe in you... ...

Well call me cynical but i don't believe. I want to see the product first. Things like Bluetooth support and user access are to important to hope for.

Am I the only one who wants such a device???
If I am the only one the Apple marketing dept. will never produce it....
If I am not alone in this hope ... I can continue dreaming... and waiting ...

Nope you are not the only one! There are a lot of motivations for Apple to build a larger screen iPod Touch. Chief among the is the ability to deliver higher resolution video or a bigger screen if you will. I believe the video download services success depends on a alrger hand held device.

enjoy your

yanke

Right now I'm not enjoying anything and that frustrates me. I really believe that Apple will attempt to exert so much control over the third party development process and thus reduce demand for the Touch devices. Apple needs to keep in mind that there are a lot of potential users of these devices that are not from the traditional iPod crowd. Hopefully they will take into account the needs of these power users.

Dave

 

[mogzieee]

Duh . . . . .

Has anyone thought that the other type of touch device could just be the newly released 16GB iPhone???? Yes i know they're the same thing but because of the different memory they are totally different if you take them apart...

 

[macnewbie13]

Alright, I might be the only one that remembers this, but does anyone else remember the 3 tv Disney movies about Zenon and her life on a Space Station? Well they had some really cool touchscreen videophone/internet capable devices. Ever since I saw those movies I've always wanted something like that. Who knows, maybe Apple is making something like that?

 

[osxmiggsosx]

Here is what i think.

Platforms = (N45);
( "i think its for macbookair touch jester".)


<(0.o)>
All Mobile
Black MacBook
iPhone 8gb

 

[Welly]

1. No MMS & No forwarding SMS - without jalibreak

I don't use MMS either but I agree that sucks for other people.

2. No native chat without jailbreak (and they suck)

No phone I've ever owned has had native chat of any description.

3. No GPS

There's only a handful of phones I'm aware of on the market that has GPS. That the iPhone doesn't have GPS doesn't make it suck. This is a poor argument.

4. No themes without jailbreak

Mac OS X doesn't have themes without 3rd party software either. That's the Apple way.

5. Phone locked to 1 provider - Lame

Terrible argument. Many phones are locked to one provider. Most of them can be unlocked. But this has nothing to do with the iPhone.