iPhone SDK Limitations: Multitasking, Java, Emulators

[ert3]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone 8gb: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)

personally I think this guide line is really more there because some devs may use it as a means of writing spyware. (some thing aol does allot of). That and they may want to make sure every app runs as advertised which means no hogging the ARM core.

 

[GirthP]

Here comes.. the waaambulance....

Why do people think Apple owes them anything?

This is Apple's creation, they get to do what they want with it. Frankly, it seems like a reasonable decision. They are creating a very open framework from scratch. It is not hard to see why they are making this decision. If you think that you are being ripped off, your delusions of grandeur are of epic proportions.

Go buy a Nokia N95, and have at it.

 

[jz1492]

BB is for BerryBad

The blackberry becomes slow and almost unusable when you leave applications open in the background, specially when you leave some web pages open in the browser.

One of the more affected applications is their own blackberry messenger, which is also affected by message history length and typing activity on the other end.

Nerve wrecking.

 

[firewood]

limitations for the little guy

A lot of random badware hides inside loading code chunks, emulated code, and runs in the background. It's quite possible that the SDK limitations are to help Apple slightly more easily screen out potential malware, spyware, battery killing cr*pware, and ways of loading applets that bypass the official Apple Store. If you are BigCorp who can provide guarantees, code audits, post a huge indemity bond, maybe even provide $$$ comarketing to help sell more iPhones, then you most likely get to play slightly outside the sandbox.

So my guesses on the JVM are two possibilities: some technical manager at Sun spoke without consulting legal, and will be in big trouble come Monday; or the Java runtime will only be able to run signed applets that comes bundled with it or from the Apple Store, which will screen out the junkware.

 

[firewood]

no interpreted code?

The SDK limitation on interpreted code seems, as written, to disallow programmable calculators, spreadsheets, various games with scriptable characters or robots, and all types of emulators, even for legal unencumbered-by-copyright vintage games.

 

[Hattig]

Ah, I see, treat people like morons and protect them from themselves.

Sounds like the state of the US government right about now.

If you're a computer software company right now, this is pretty much the only option you have. Sadly, the truth is, it's true, most people are morons who can barely get the wherewithal to remember to breathe regularly.

This is fine for Apple if Apple's SDK provides a default method that tells the app to essentially "Save All State and Quit". I.e,. phone call comes in, OS tells app "That's it, time's up, save all and quit". By the time you've reacted as a user, the software has saved and quit, so it all appears seamless. Maybe the OS masks it all with a fancy Core Animation tween from the app to the next app ...

The next part is that the startup of the application checks the save state and reloads it, so that it appears to the user that nothing has changed.

On the other hand, my 512KB Amiga 500 back in the day multitasked multiple applications and laughed in your face (well, software got slower as you ran more). The vast majority of CPU cycles these days is used by media manipulation, XML manipulation and other things. Apple's issue is that media, etc, takes up loads of RAM, and that's what they don't have to spare in the iPhone. Far better the Quit App, Run Game (and get 100% performance), Quit Game, Run App and Reload State as if the app was never quit.

And I argue that is how all software should run, mobile or desktop (as regards the quit, save, restore behaviour, not having to quit when switching software, that would be silly on the desktop (unless you hadn't run it for a while, but the desktop will just page it out, which is the desktop option for this type of software).

However some applications should be allowed to listen "Launch Listeners" that will listen for incoming information, then launch the application if required. These listeners should also be allowed to keep connections alive. However they should be small, and use a very small proportion of CPU, and the active task should be able to tell the OS how to treat these things - i.e,. QUEUE UNTIL I QUIT, or INTERRUPT ME. Or whatever.

 

[GuillaumeB]

ok many of us will have been waiting a year before seeing thrid party applications. I got my iPhone in November and more than once I rsisted to JB it giving Apple some credit concernin the SDK.

Also I do love the Push features turning the iphone into a serious blackberry killer, i find this limit ridiculous. The phone OS they say? cm'on WFT? my gf can have GTalk run in the background of her BB pearl. it's not like it's huge CPU burner..especially for a so-called powerful machine!!

I dont see the point of opening up the iPhone if the Apps can talk one to another or be complementary one to another by multitaksing...no wonder you dont get copy/paste!

 

[Di9it8]

What is the situation now if you are downloading a Mail attachment and a call comes in, does mail quit and the download stop?

Surely the app would be suspended, and the download resumes on call termination?

 

[Di9it8]

Once they go 3G there is little/no reason they can't do a worldwide rollout very quickly, or at least rollout to Europe/Asian tigers+Thailand/Japan/Australia/New Zealand.

Couple of issues here, at present China, one of the largest potential iPhone markets does not yet have an Apple phone partner.
Will the US be included in your initial worldwide roll out?

 

[letsdiscussit]

Skype app on iPhone

I want Skype and that has to run in the background of the iPhone. I also want, when connected to WiFi full functionality of Skype, talking to people and using the camera as web camera. It would be sooooo awesome. Might it be possible?

 

[winterspan]

Um, I write software too, its also open-source. Check my sig for more details.

Well I'm sorry for being harsh, but I don't understand why you would make such a negative statement
about open source developers resorting to underhanded tactics for money. If you youself are one,
then you know that most do this for a hobby and for the community and don't expect anything in return.
Why give others false reasons not to trust OSS ?

personally I think this guide line is really more there because some devs may use it as a means of writing spyware. (some thing aol does allot of). That and they may want to make sure every app runs as advertised which means no hogging the ARM core.

1) I'm sure nefarious devs who would wish to spread malware/spyware would NOT be following any guideslines of Apples or attempt to use the iTunes distribution method.
2) All tools can be used the wrong way, that in no way means the tools shouldn't be used.

The blackberry becomes slow and almost unusable when you leave applications open in the background, specially when you leave some web pages open in the browser.
One of the more affected applications is their own blackberry messenger, which is also affected by message history length and typing activity on the other end.
Nerve wrecking.

Well of course the BB is a different beast, with a different OS and optimizations, and obviously a slower ARM processor and 1/2 the RAM.

If you're a computer software company right now, this is pretty much the only option you have. Sadly, the truth is, it's true, most people are morons who can barely get the wherewithal to remember to breathe regularly. This is fine for Apple if Apple's SDK provides a default method that tells the app to essentially "Save All State and Quit". I.e,. phone call comes in, OS tells app "That's it, time's up, save all and quit". By the time you've reacted as a user, the software has saved and quit, so it all appears seamless. Maybe the OS masks it all with a fancy Core Animation tween from the app to the next app ...
The next part is that the startup of the application checks the save state and reloads it, so that it appears to the user that nothing has changed.
On the other hand, my 512KB Amiga 500 back in the day multitasked multiple applications and laughed in your face (well, software got slower as you ran more). The vast majority of CPU cycles these days is used by media manipulation, XML manipulation and other things. Apple's issue is that media, etc, takes up loads of RAM, and that's what they don't have to spare in the iPhone. Far better the Quit App, Run Game (and get 100% performance), Quit Game, Run App and Reload State as if the app was never quit.
And I argue that is how all software should run, mobile or desktop (as regards the quit, save, restore behaviour, not having to quit when switching software, that would be silly on the desktop (unless you hadn't run it for a while, but the desktop will just page it out, which is the desktop option for this type of software). However some applications should be allowed to listen "Launch Listeners" that will listen for incoming information, then launch the application if required. These listeners should also be allowed to keep connections alive. However they should be small, and use a very small proportion of CPU, and the active task should be able to tell the OS how to treat these things - i.e,. QUEUE UNTIL I QUIT, or INTERRUPT ME. Or whatever.

You are getting at a good point here. I think from now on when discussing applications on the iPhone, everyone needs to make the distinction
between real multi-tasking of full applications and applications opening a small listener thread for things such as notifications, update downloads, etc.
I surely hope that the Apple guidelines are only that, and that developers will be able to have small background processes running the background.
How else would certain things work such as Instant messenging or downloading files in the background while playing a game.

Also heopfully only multi-tasking between 3rd party apps will be disallowed, while multi-tasking between a 3rd party app and the iPhone core functionality will be ok.
Think of situations such as retrieving information from a 3rd party app while on the phone, or writing down information while on the phone. There are so many use cases where
this functionality will be required. I only have an iPod touch, but for the people who have an iPhone, are you able to access contacts/notes while on the phone?

 

[plumpan]

I want Skype and that has to run in the background of the iPhone. I also want, when connected to WiFi full functionality of Skype, talking to people and using the camera as web camera. It would be sooooo awesome. Might it be possible?

that would be reallyyyyyy cool. hope apple allows it!

 

[iSlicer]

Apple DO develop to the Tech Savvy

I think, for a consumer device, that may be the best path. Yes, it IS constricting---but that applies for the tech savvy, which is a more limited market. If Apple's aim is to bring the power of the smartphone feature set to a wider audience, then the needs of the general consumer market will drive the development, not the needs of the more tech savvy.

Which is how Apple has ALWAYS been.

I disagree with your final comment as to how Apple have always developed for the general consumer. I assume you don't play with Final Cut Studio, Xcode, Aperture, Logic etc... They choose their markets and develop in style which suits them best and for the most part suits us best... Otherwise you would not be using a mac and the large developer community would not be working on a mac. It's because they do develop for the tech savvy that we use macs and it's why Apple do develop for the general consumer that my wife uses iLife.

 

[jragosta]

I'm no longer a student, but think of this workflow before you dismiss multi-tasking, even if just third party apps.

Listening to music in the library, editing class notes notes on your wordprocesser, looking up words in your dictionary, taking glances at a pdf (3rd party, not a converted picture) to check the if your notes are correct.

Give me a break. We're talking about a phone here, not a laptop computer.

 

[winterspan]

that would be reallyyyyyy cool. hope apple allows it!

Well considering Europe and Asia have had cellphones with secondary forward facing video calling cameras for years, I really doubt it. The nokia, HTC, and other models of phones have these cameras outside the USA, and then the stupid US carriers make the manufacturers develop alternative models without them for the US market. It's really a bunch of crap,
Verizon's and Sprints EVDO network can easily handle the bandwidth demands of small res video conferencing. AT&T's 3G network will be good when they have HSUPA (upload side) rolled out as well.

Also, Apple already said they will block "bandwidth hog" apps from the Iphone app store, and I would include video calling/ video chat in with that, in addition to place-shifting TV apps like SlingPlayer and other awesome things. This is why Apple controlling all App download will be a major problem.

 

[sanfransurfer]

"An Application may not itself install or launch other executable code by any means, including without limitation through the use of a plug-in architecture, calling other frameworks, other APIs or otherwise."

Apple applications already violate this. You can click on a link in mail or safari and make a phone call, launch google maps, or the video player.

 

[MacFly123]

Free SDK???

Can someone in here please tell me... I have never coded anything before, but I want to download the SDK and try to learn some things and just have fun. Can I really download it for free or do I have to pay the $99.00? What do I need to do? Just use my apple ID to sign up and download it for free or will I incur fees? How would it work for someone like me? Thanks

 

[Niiro13]

That's interesting.

They're probably gonna allow that exception to AIM and Java...AIM's one of the largest IM in the United States and Java is one of the largest plugins.

Those rules are probably general guidelines...I mean, Apple approves all applications anyway, right? So I highly doubt they're going to restrict AOL and Sun.

Unless they're gonna take AOL's already made program, implement MSN, Yahoo, and Jabber, and rename to iChat. =/

 

[PodHead]

As for the AIM application (and if this has been addressed, forgive me), why doesn't Apple just make iChat available for the iPhone? Wouldn't that take care of that AIM problem?

I'm personally waiting for adium and 8hands even though they don't have a mac version yet, that would need to run in the background as well.

 

[dejo]

Can I really download it for free or do I have to pay the $99.00? What do I need to do? Just use my apple ID to sign up and download it for free or will I incur fees? How would it work for someone like me? Thanks

You can download the SDK for free, no fees.

 

[twoodcc]

i can see the concern for Apple. i'm sure that they will work with people like Sun to develop Java for the iPhone though

 

[winterspan]

Can someone in here please tell me... I have never coded anything before, but I want to download the SDK and try to learn some things and just have fun. Can I really download it for free or do I have to pay the $99.00? What do I need to do? Just use my apple ID to sign up and download it for free or will I incur fees? How would it work for someone like me? Thanks

The SDK is free I believe. The $99 would be to join the Apple Developer program and obtain a digital certificate to be able to distribute Apps through the iTunes store.

I'm not experienced in Objective-C, but I have heard its much less of a nightmare than C++ and actually more elegant to use than C. Nevertheless, if you haven't done ANY type of programming before, I'd recommend you start easy and choose a simpler language.

PHP is nice and easy, but mostly limited to web applications.
Java is more advanced and much more versatile with a huge dev community, but it has its drawbacks.
I don't have alot of experience in Python, but it seems to be a major favorite among many, and very intuitive and developer friendly. Ruby is much the same, although like PHP, it's much less popular for anything other than web applications.
C# and VB.net are also very nice to use, but because they use a "virtual machine" like Java, they are mostly limited to Microsoft systems.

If you are ambitious to get moving on the iPhone SDK ASAP and are a quick learner, then you should just dive head first into Objective-C.

I would post some links for getting started, but honestly this is such a popular topic on the web that you won't have any trouble finding resources and information.

 

[TurboSC]

I'm sure Apple will have a solution for something regarding IM clients and smaller background processes.

 

[Hooka]

I view my iPhone as a cell phone, first and foremost. Anything that may slow down this basic function would be a concern to me and probably to Apple. So, yea, restrictions and quality control are important factors here.

Amen

 

[salilsundresh]

I'm no longer a student, but think of this workflow before you dismiss multi-tasking, even if just third party apps.

Listening to music in the library, editing class notes notes on your wordprocesser, looking up words in your dictionary, taking glances at a pdf (3rd party, not a converted picture) to check the if your notes are correct.

although you would have to have access to the filesystem for the wordprocesser and pdf viewer to me feasible, the point is that multi-tasking would make such a workflow easier. With the jailbroken touch now, every time you want to switch apps, native or third party, you have to go to the home screen. and most of the thrid party apps fully close, leavihng gaps in the usability of the progs.

The real problem is that with true multi-tasking design, they would have to rethink the UI and add buttons and such to allow the user to indicate whether they would like to close the app or put it in the background and switch to another task, something that they don't worry about now with the simple "press home, go to desktop" setup. although easy to understand, very limited.

I, for one, will jailbreak my touch/phone (when they get the 3G one to Japan) regardless of what they do for 3rd party apps. With access to the filesystem i have beautiful wallpapers (not the grainy compressed ones from the photo app), wikipedia and dictionaries, a text editor, and all the games that people will have with the official progs too. Not to mention probably the best thing, have my background show up behind my icons on the homescreen.
I mean come on, who at Apple thought people would be content with just a black background... Even if you can only choose from preset choices, it makes no difference if you can only see it for a second or two while you uinlock your phone...

What makes you so sure that you will be able to jailbreak 2.0? Not discouraging it, I would love for this to happen, but you seem overly confident that it will work so I was wondering if you knew something I didn't about 2.0.