iPhone "SDK" To Receive Improvements, Remain Web-based

[plumbingandtech]

Uh, yeah, because 49% of iPhone owners is a huge minority...

Did you see the stats?

1880 people hacked their phone.

Out of a million + iPhones.

So yah, a minority.

and yes more people will vote and some people hacked their phone but have not been here today for the poll but that number is not going to get to 500K thats for sure.

 

[shadowfax]

I don't think it's about the phone. This whole situation reeks heavily of what most of us hate so much about other computer/technology companies. Apple was different, but that difference is starting to disappear and this is the first time in the almost 3 years that I have been a customer that I have been really questioning my relationship with Apple as a company.

what was the other time?

 

[rjwill246]

I don't see how any customer could be against having the iPhone open for third party development. What Apple are doing in closing up the platform benefits nobody but themselves. For the sake of making a few extra bucks Apple is absolutely crippling the iPhone.

Honestly, I already own an iPhone and had been recommending it to all my friends, but since Apple locked up the device I can no longer recommend it to anyone. In fact, I'm telling everyone to stay well away from the iPhone unless Apple get their head out their ass and open up the platform.

So another person jumps on his sword. I agree that it would be nice of Apple to open up. But let's look at Apple... for the last few years, many people had the same opinion as you about the iMac, the iPod and now the iPhone. It would seem, if you look for a second, that none of the complaints bore fruit and Apple has been incredibly successful on these items.

Now, does anyone really believe that SJ is going to let this phone just fade into the black beyond??? C'mon... Now, I can't speak for him but let us at least accept that this venture is MORE than dear to his heart. He didn't want to get into the phone business a few years ago because he knew the world would stack up against Apple and that is certainly the tone of all the noises that were made by the competitors just a few short months ago.

SJ is NEVER going to let this fail. It would be a dismal failure for him, personally. So what is all the posturing about? Getting the most out of the market by having apps developed that Apple will make money off. That will not last-- it's untenable. Then, as the competitors strike, Apple will open things up, I assume with some great stuff that it will have noted was wanted and used just a few short days ago. Yep, rip off the hardworking 3rd party developers-- but it's Apple and that is what any company would want to get away with. It's their right even if not ethical, IMHO.

The iPhone will not be eclipsed by anyone. SJ and Apple Inc will never, ever let that come to pass.

SJ has put more than his chin out --and the other anatomical "feature" is not going to get chopped-- well, again!

 

[tuartboy]

How do we know they are not working on both?

Even after a true API, web apps will be important.



Judging by sales since the price drop... not many.

If it's truly safari running under there, why not just get dojo's offline mode running and bang, there you go.

And I bought my phone days after the price drop. I doubt I would have bought one otherwise. The update is only a week old. The only way we will know by looking at numbers is to wait a few weeks to a month and then look. Statistically, that still proves nothing. I think anecdotally you will find that the negative buzz in popular media (NPR even had something about it) and on the web will at least make most savvy buyers think twice.

 

[tmiw]

What if Apple's onto something even bigger than we think? The fact of the matter is, most people really shouldn't be developing any sort of compiled application--C isn't a safe language, no matter what anyone wants to think. Could Apple be forcing the software community to finally realize that Web applications are superior in security and usability? And unless native applications are blocked, AT&T has no motivation or excuse to improve the EDGE/3G networks even further. I imagine speed improvements on the Safari end will come to OSX with future updates.

Hmm, I just realized I kinda argued for Apple-approved native apps (it is possible to write good code in a compiled language if you know what you're doing)...anyways, I'd prefer an open SDK, if at all possible, but I doubt this is going to happen anytime soon.

 

[nagromme]

"off-line storage capabilities which would gain the ability to run 3rd party web-based code without accessing the internet."

And suddenly I am modding my own phone just like making a Dashboard widget, in a controversy-free manner Now get that Flash support done!

 

[shadowfax]

Did you see the stats?

1880 people hacked their phone.

Out of a million + iPhones.

So yah, a minority.

and yes more people will vote and some people hacked their phone but have not been here today for the poll but that number is not going to get to 500K thats for sure.

I think it takes a special kind of dumb to take the number from the poll (1880) and compare it to the total number of sales. I mean, let's be honest. the poll is inaccurate. Obviously, 2/3 of people are not iPhone owners, and of those 2/3, 1/2 are not hacking their phones. The Poll is pretty utterly meaningless unless you are curious about MacRumors Forum demographics.

But the number of "hackers", or rather "3rd-party software installers" is certainly significant. It could be as high as 7%. I believe there have been like 80,000 downloads of AppTapp from distinct IP addresses.

 

[joeshell383]

I couldn't agree more!!! I understand the unlocking issue = lost of money for Apple and ATT, but the refusal to allow 3rd party applications id just dumb. Developers didn't charge a dime for their iPhone applications so far, it's not like their are making money instead of Apple. Instead they are using the iPhone to expand its possibilities.

Yeah, I forgot that Skype and VOIP services don't hurt AT&T's bottom line. Oh, I also forgot that IM doesn't take away from AT&T's text messaging revenue. I can't recall that free ringtones take away money for the record companies, and that most other services charge $2.50 and don't let you choose the snippet or keep the actual song. It escaped my mind that MMS is outdated and Apple is abandoning it like many other technologies (Floppy, Modem) to push e-mail as the preferred way of multimedia messaging.

My memory is absolutely horrible.

 

[Marx55]

A true SDK is what is needed for iPhone and iPod touch. Or else --yet much better-- a brand new handheld computer based on the revolutionary Intel Silverthorne (the full Mac OS X on your hand).

 

[guzhogi]

I guess security's their biggest concern.

Pity it can't use a sandbox and something akin to Java.

It'll be wonderful to see the phone being expanded to allow all sorts of applications to be installed.

Very true. However, there are a lot of really good, competent 3rd party developers out there and look at all the good apps that were created that didn't crash (as far as I know)!

Let's see:

(1) Voice Notes (vNotes) to record notes, comments, etc. Great way to have a voice recorder right on the iPhone.

(2) Apollo. REAL IM capabilities (no WEB mess, just a good IM App right on the iPhone.

(3) Tons of games (NES, Blackjack, Tetris, Yahtzee, etc.).

(4) Terminal App for us that love to control and run all kinds of mini apps right on your phone (great for testing as well).

(5) SendPic, SendSong and SendFile for TRUE content sending. Send pictures, any song OR any file from your iPhone.

(6) WeDICT. All kinds of dictionaries right on your device.

Plus much more that comes out every other day.

P.S. And yes I still have them on my iPhone. No updating for me, yet . . . .

(7) an improved e-mail app

(8) an iPod that works in the traditional iPod manner

(9) an app that accesses the accelerometer, so you could do silly stuff like have pics of girlies so when you shook the iPhone their breasts bounced

(10) Sketch

(11) A useful weather widget that goes beyond "it's 80 degrees!"

(12) A wifi-finder/wifi-grapher

(13) A money manager

(14) A screensaver

These are all good apps. While having Apple test the apps themselves to make sure they don't do anything to mess up anything else is a good idea, it would be a pain is the rear. At least make a REAL SDK & documentation so everything plays nice together. Apple's & SJ's control freak thing is awful. Great products, but not being used to their full potential. I like #9, but kinda inappropriate. But accelerometer-aware apps are awesome! Anyone use MacSaber on their MacBook (Pros)? Total waste of time, but AWESOME! Ah, what great apps can be developed if only Apple let them.

 

[cecemf]

I guess security's their biggest concern.

Pity it can't use a sandbox and something akin to Java.

It'll be wonderful to see the phone being expanded to allow all sorts of applications to be installed.

What security ??

Sebian, Palm, Windows mobile are open for 3rd party and don't have any problem.

What are they scared off ????

 

[arkmannj]

I just had a thought,
ya know, I can (to a point) understand Apple's desire to be sure the phone is stable, secure, etc.

Couldn't Apple implement a process similar to game consoles, where any programs that are going to run need to be digitally signed by Apple themselves, 3rd party apps would need to be tested and certified for the iPhone. But, then Apple could still hold the reins, and 3rd parties could still develop Apps. win-win right ?

 

[guzhogi]

So another person jumps on his sword. I agree that it would be nice of Apple to open up. But let's look at Apple... for the last few years, many people had the same opinion as you about the iMac, the iPod and now the iPhone. It would seem, if you look for a second, that none of the complaints bore fruit and Apple has been incredibly successful on these items.

Now, does anyone really believe that SJ is going to let this phone just fade into the black beyond??? C'mon... Now, I can't speak for him but let us at least accept that this venture is MORE than dear to his heart. He didn't want to get into the phone business a few years ago because he knew the world would stack up against Apple and that is certainly the tone of all the noises that were made by the competitors just a few short months ago.

SJ is NEVER going to let this fail. It would be a dismal failure for him, personally. So what is all the posturing about? Getting the most out of the market by having apps developed that Apple will make money off. That will not last-- it's untenable. Then, as the competitors strike, Apple will open things up, I assume with some great stuff that it will have noted was wanted and used just a few short days ago. Yep, rip off the hardworking 3rd party developers-- but it's Apple and that is what any company would want to get away with. It's their right even if not ethical, IMHO.

The iPhone will not be eclipsed by anyone. SJ and Apple Inc will never, ever let that come to pass.

SJ has put more than his chin out --and the other anatomical "feature" is not going to get chopped-- well, again!

Very true. However, people shouldn't become apathetic and just be like "Oh, they'll never change. Might as well get what I can." If enough people speak up in the right way, Apple & Steve Jobs would take notice and do something about it. I'll admit, I don't know how we can do this, but we should at least try. If the people in the US were this apathetic 230 years ago, they'd still be under the control of England.

 

[72930]

What security ??

Sebian, Palm, Windows mobile are open for 3rd party and don't have any problem.

What are they scared off ????

Badly coded apps can be unstable, and ruin the user experience...

 

[iJed]

What if Apple's onto something even bigger than we think? The fact of the matter is, most people really shouldn't be developing any sort of compiled application--C isn't a safe language, no matter what anyone wants to think. Could Apple be forcing the software community to finally realize that Web applications are superior in security and usability? And unless native applications are blocked, AT&T has no motivation or excuse to improve the EDGE/3G networks even further. I imagine speed improvements on the Safari end will come to OSX with future updates.

C may not be a "safe" language as you put it but it is around 500 times faster than JavaScript. This is especially bad in the confines of an embedded device like the iPhone where a JIT compiler will use up more resources than it is worth. This is one reason why web apps will never have better usability than native apps.

I'd take a sandboxed JVM or an implementation of the MS CLR any day over JavaScript. Even MS Silverlight would be better than this crap!

 

[guzhogi]

I just had a thought,
ya know, I can (to a point) understand Apple's desire to be sure the phone is stable, secure, etc.

Couldn't Apple implement a process similar to game consoles, where any programs that are going to run need to be digitally signed by Apple themselves, 3rd party apps would need to be tested and certified for the iPhone. But, then Apple could still hold the reins, and 3rd parties could still develop Apps. win-win right ?

Possible, but a pain the rear if there's a lot of people writing apps.

 

[Unspeaked]

Did you see the stats?

1880 people hacked their phone.

Out of a million + iPhones.

So yah, a minority.

and yes more people will vote and some people hacked their phone but have not been here today for the poll but that number is not going to get to 500K thats for sure.

Let me explain how polls work:

You see, you get a sample of folks to answer a question. Based on that sample, you can draw some conclusions.

In the poll you quote, half the people that owned iPhones hacked them.

Now, you brought up a valid point that the average MacRumors iPhone owner is more likely to hack their phone than the average customer on the street, but still - we're looking at the number of people who answers as a part of the test group, not as a part of the entire iPhone owning population!

Geez, I don't think there's a million members of MacRumors - you expect everyone to have an iPhone to sign up for an account and vote in the poll?

All we know is 4032 iPhone owners voted in the poll and 1971 of them hacked their phones - that's a pretty large number....

I think it takes a special kind of dumb to take the number from the poll (1880) and compare it to the total number of sales. I mean, let's be honest. the poll is inaccurate. Obviously, 2/3 of people are not iPhone owners, and of those 2/3, 1/2 are not hacking their phones. The Poll is pretty utterly meaningless unless you are curious about MacRumors Forum demographics.

Thank you!

 

[Roy Hobbs]

I think it takes a special kind of dumb to take the number from the poll (1880) and compare it to the total number of sales. I mean, let's be honest. the poll is inaccurate. Obviously, 2/3 of people are not iPhone owners, and of those 2/3, 1/2 are not hacking their phones. The Poll is pretty utterly meaningless unless you are curious about MacRumors Forum demographics.

But the number of "hackers", or rather "3rd-party software installers" is certainly significant. It could be as high as 7%. I believe there have been like 80,000 downloads of AppTapp from distinct IP addresses.

Last time I checked 7% is still much less that 93% thus making it the minority.
7% of a million iPhone users is far from significant.

 

[Telp]

offline storage is beast! I can't wait for that capability. Does that mean like bring able to download apps and pictures and stuff like that?

 

[guzhogi]

C may not be a "safe" language as you put it but it is around 500 times faster than JavaScript. This is especially bad in the confines of an embedded device like the iPhone where a JIT compiler will use up more resources than it is worth. This is one reason why web apps will never have better usability than native apps.

I'd take a sandboxed JVM or an implementation of the MS CLR any day over JavaScript. Even MS Silverlight would be better than this crap!

I agree. Even then, there are still no truly , absolutely, 100% safe languages. There will always be someone who finds a way to do bad stuff w/ any language. As some people have said, maybe Apple can digitally sign apps so that only signed apps can run. Pain in the rear for them, but safe and the apps would be fairly fast. If not signed, maybe a real SDK & documentation. For these, add a "Use at your own risk" thing. Of course, people will still complain b/c they don't want to be held responsible. Unfortunately, this is one of those things that doesn't have an easy solution everyone can agree on.

 

[72930]

Geez, I don't think there's a million members of MacRumors - you expect everyone to have an iPhone to sign up for an account and vote in the poll?

All we know is 4032 iPhone owners voted in the poll and 1971 of them hacked their phones - that's a pretty large number....

A lot of people would like 3rd party apps too, but don't want to hack their phones...

Last time I checked 7% is still much less that 93% thus making it the minority.
7% of a million iPhone users is far from significant.

I guess less than 7% use the stocks widget but that didn't stop Apple...

 

[w00master]

Yeah, I forgot that Skype and VOIP services don't hurt AT&T's bottom line. Oh, I also forgot that IM doesn't take away from AT&T's text messaging revenue. I can't recall that free ringtones take away money for the record companies, and that most other services charge $2.50 and don't let you choose the snippet or keep the actual song. It escaped my mind that MMS is outdated and Apple is abandoning it like many other technologies (Floppy, Modem) to push e-mail as the preferred way of multimedia messaging.

My memory is absolutely horrible.

So why does AT&T allow their other smartphones to do this then? Hmmm?

I highly doubt the lack of 3rd party apps have ANYTHING to do with AT&T. I really think this is all Apple.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: AT&T has phones that have and do allow 3rd party apps.

w00master

 

[shadowfax]

Last time I checked 7% is still much less that 93% thus making it the minority.

It's funny to hear a Mac-user dismiss "7%" like it's not worth anything. Is that what you think of yourself as a mac user in a PC-world? 7% share of the computer world Apple does not have, so why should anyone waste their time with it?

 

[macUser2007]

... The iPhone will not be eclipsed by anyone....

Ah, just like the Mac?

Back then it was also was light-years ahead in UI, now it garners 3% of PC sales worldwide....

The iPod is a different story: first, people buy these to play music, kind of like the Walkman before it. Nothing else. Add the iTunes store, which is pretty much the best one out there. And last, but not least: the iPod is EASILY hacked, both to strip DRM and to copy music to and fro.

The iPhone is different. Many buy it for the UI and don't really use the iPod function on it. Most I know rarely listen to music on it. They kind of think of it as a cool smart-phone.

But people are starting to expect certain things from a smart phone, including some customization. The web-based apps are lame and just not it. The UI can go a long way to mitigate some of the more glaring shortcomings of the iPhone, but all the bad publicity about 1.1.1 is the first chink in the armor.

Apple is incurring a tremendous amount of ill-will from many, who just a week ago were the iPhone's biggest supporters. Right before the European launch.

Let's see how it goes. But even though I didn't get bricked, for the foreseeable future I am disappointed enough, not to be in a mood to recommend an iPhone to anyone.

 

[iJed]

In my 20 years as a Mac user I do not think that I have ever seen such a backlash against Apple as the banning of iPhone third party applications.

Apple behaving like this is beginning to make Microsoft look reasonable. I have never known them to cripple any of their own software or devices in such an evil way!