iPhone SE 4 Rumors: Price, Features, Release Date and More

[Reason077]

Much of the advancement in smartphone photographic capability comes from carefully optimizing all the components as an integrated system.

In some ways they seem to have gone backwards.

My mum has some great, amazingly detailed macro photos of bees on her flowers that she took on her iPhone 12 Pro. She recently got a 16 Pro and tried to get similar shots in exactly the same place, but on the 16 Pro it’s a total fail. Bee just looks blurry and terrible no matter what she tries. It’s so bad it almost looks like some AI filter can’t comprehend what a bee is and tries to delete it!

 

[macjaffa]

In some ways they seem to have gone backwards.

My mum has some great, amazingly detailed macro photos of bees on her flowers that she took on her iPhone 12 Pro. She recently got a 16 Pro and tried to get similar shots in exactly the same place, but on the 16 Pro it’s a total fail. Bee just looks blurry and terrible no matter what she tries. It’s so bad it almost looks like some AI filter can’t comprehend what a bee is and tries to delete it!

Does anyone know how to get the iphone to lock to a particular lens when shooting especially close up stuff? What tend to happen is the iPhone Will continuously switch between lenses makingnit almost impossible to frame or focus the subject

 

[theorist9]

In some ways they seem to have gone backwards.

My mum has some great, amazingly detailed macro photos of bees on her flowers that she took on her iPhone 12 Pro. She recently got a 16 Pro and tried to get similar shots in exactly the same place, but on the 16 Pro it’s a total fail. Bee just looks blurry and terrible no matter what she tries. It’s so bad it almost looks like some AI filter can’t comprehend what a bee is and tries to delete it!

I'm not that familiar with the details of the camera on my iPhone, since most of my photography is done with a stand-alone camera. But it's possible she might be able to use this to capture the bee:

Use iPhone camera tools to set up your shot

Learn how to use camera tools such as the flash, timer, focus and exposure, and more with your iPhone camera.

support.apple.com

Having said that, one of the surprising downsides of the iPhone's camera is indeed the very limited manual control. And I say surprising because, with their very sophisticated software, there's no reason they couldn't have added extensive manual control features.

Some additional manual control can be gained by either burrowing deep in the menus, or with third-party software. But that in turn points up another limitation of using the iPhone vs. a well-designed stand-alone camera. With the latter, key manual controls (shutter speed,exposure*, and focus) are directly accessible and settable. With the iPhone (and, I assume other smartphones), you have to go through multiple layers of menus—which also means you can't adjust more than one setting at a time.

*And on the iPhone (and most or all other smartphones), you can't even adjust aperture, since the lenses are fixed-aperture.

6 Advanced iPhone Camera Controls For Jaw-Dropping Photography

Learn to use advanced iPhone camera controls, including shutter speed and ISO. Start taking incredible photos that you never thought possible!

iphonephotographyschool.com

 

[theorist9]

You are of course absolutely right in your comments.
I photographed the starry sky with the latest iPhone Pro just a few days ago, and I have to say that just a few years ago I would have ruled out the possibility of the small sensor surface being able to process very little light extremely perfectly.

As I am also a lover of 4/3 devices (a hugely innovative compromise step forward when introduced, in my opinion) I simply wonder whether the sensor area of a 4/3 chip could be integrated into an iPhone. Then you could add the optics in a modular way, i.e. an adapter would allow the attachment of a conventional 4/3 lens (which are available in fascinatingly different focal lengths). If you don't want that, you can then use Apple's slide-on plate with Apple's standard lens.

By the way: Apple is applying for various patents, e.g. for active aperture systems for the iPhone camera. So of course they are also thinking a lot beyond the current status. And I just wanted to bring that into the discussion.

I'm not any better at reading Apple's tea leaves than anyone else. But my suspicion is that they won't do that because adding a 4/3 sensor to an iPhone would require significant reengineering, and also add significantly to the BOM (bill of materials). And they're not going to do that, I think, for a feature that only works well for the tiny percentage of buyers who will add 4/3 lenses to their iPhones. [Or untll they can create 4/3 lenses that are as compact as their current lenses, and outfit all their phones with those.]

One other downside that just occurred to me vs. a full-featured camera is the degree of manual control. I just mentioned the following to another poster. So I think before they begin reenginnering the entire phone to accommoadate 4/3 lenses, they need to come up with an entirely different camera interface that puts all the manual controls (shutter speed, aperture, focus, flash, etc.) onto a single screen:

"Some additional manual control can be gained by either burrowing deep in the menus, or with third-party software. But that in turn points up another limitation of using the iPhone vs. a well-designed stand-alone camera. With the latter, key manual controls (shutter speed, aperture*, and focus) are directly accessible and settable. With the iPhone (and, I assume other smartphones), you have to go through multiple layers of menus—which also means you can't adjust more than one setting at a time."

*And on the iPhone (and most or all other smartphones), you can't even adjust aperture, since the lenses are fixed-aperture.

 

[mattspace]

With the iPhone (and, I assume other smartphones), you have to go through multiple layers of menus—which also means you can't adjust more than one setting at a time."

And if we go up to what makes a "professional" camera such, it's the amount of functionality outboarded to hardware buttons, so that you can adjust by feel, while keeping your eye on the subject.

Pretty much any modern dedicated camera is going to produce a better photograph than a cellphone. Whether it's a nicer image would come down to the shooter's skill as a photographer, Vs. the cellphone's ability to average the sensor data against (an AI model of photos other people have taken and rated highly), to create a photo-referenced computer generated image.

 

[theorist9]

And if we go up to what makes a "professional" camera such, it's the amount of functionality outboarded to hardware buttons, so that you can adjust by feel, while keeping your eye on the subject.

Yup, that's what I had in mind when I wrote this:

But that in turn points up another limitation of using the iPhone vs. a well-designed stand-alone camera. With the latter, key manual controls (shutter speed, aperture*, and focus) are directly accessible and settable.

 

[mattspace]

Yup, that's what I had in mind when I wrote this:

I agree - just emphasising the use of physical buttons for those things, as opposed to putting them on a touchscreen, the way "pro" camera apps do for the iPhone.

It's interesting how widespread the experience of newer phone cameras seeming to produce worse photos than older models is being reported, especially in the case above where it's similar subject matter and situations.

 

[GlenK]

I just want a phone that doesn't give me headaches!!! This 11 is going to die anytime now!!

 

[G5isAlive]

As I am also a lover of 4/3 devices (a hugely innovative compromise step forward when introduced, in my opinion) I simply wonder whether the sensor area of a 4/3 chip could be integrated into an iPhone. Then you could add the optics in a modular way, i.e. an adapter would allow the attachment of a conventional 4/3 lens (which are available in fascinatingly different focal lengths). If you don't want that, you can then use Apple's slide-on plate with Apple's standard lens.

Not going to happen. At least not with Apple.

1) Their design (and monetary) philosphy is to control everything, you are advocating the use of third party lenses. They aren't designing camera bases for Sigma lenses.

2) My full frame becomes difficult to handle with a large telephoto, can't imagine trying to strap my camera to one. I hear you 4/3 is not as big, but it's not small, and to compete with full frames...those ARE big.

3) Why not ask the opposite question, why doesn't Apple license their technology to Sony to put in their cameras? That would be a killer combo. Not going to happen. Apple wants to sell phones. Look at the problem they have getting CarPlay into cars, and thats a LOT bigger market than real cameras.

Yes credit to Apple for what they have accomplished, and yes they are going to continue to push the limits. But physics count and at some point even apple is going to be limited by their small size. Not to mention battery life. And one area you gloss over in comparing cell phones to real cameras software is the advances in autofocus, not comparable. And autofocus requires motors and motors takes power. There is a reason real cameras still have replaceable batteries.

All these factors are about quality versus convenience. Ever since the creation of MP3 with their lower sound quality, the average consumer has shown they are willing to sacrifice quality to put convenience first. And while my HomePods have some amazing software, and sound great for what they are, they just can't compete with my Klipsch floor standing speakers. Again, physics (and power). Apple is pushing convenience in a great way but they will not hit the quality you can get with a full frame camera in the hands of someone who knows how to use it. All these things are tools with limits.

BUT, and here is a big but, photography is also about the photographer. And a good photographer can indeed get great results from a phone.

Just my 2 cents. So who knows, might happen.

 

[lenningj]

A quick search on amazon for SE4 cases shows potentially the phone having a small raised area for flast/microphone and camera instead of the squard raised surface for the x2/x3 cameras for the 16/16 pro. I trust these more than the mock on this article with complete flat back

Difficult to see the mirror-like glass area on the following images:

NIMASO for iPhone SE4 Case Compatible with MagSafe, Shockproof Military-Grade Protection Cover,Slim Anti-Scratch Magnetic Phone Case for iPhone SE4 6.1 inch, Black

NIMASO for iPhone SE4 Case Compatible with MagSafe, Shockproof Military-Grade Protection Cover,Slim Anti-Scratch Magnetic Phone Case for iPhone SE4 6.1 inch, Black

www.amazon.co.uk

 

[balupton]

Considering the Wednesday announcement is a new product family, and as the leakers often mix things up, and considering the rumours of an iPhone 16e or iPhone 17 slim. I'm guessing that the iPhone 17 slim is this iPhone SE 4 which is going to actually be titled the iPhone 16 Slim, or some other marketing term. Hopefully the days of random letter suffixes are done.

 

[Reason077]

I'm not that familiar with the details of the camera on my iPhone, since most of my photography is done with a stand-alone camera. But it's possible she might be able to use this to capture the bee:

Use iPhone camera tools to set up your shot

Learn how to use camera tools such as the flash, timer, focus and exposure, and more with your iPhone camera.

support.apple.com

Having said that, one of the surprising downsides of the iPhone's camera is indeed the very limited manual control. And I say surprising because, with their very sophisticated software, there's no reason they couldn't have added extensive manual control features.

She's a fairly experienced photographer and certainly knows how to use the focus lock. And her 16 Pro will take beautiful photos of flowers, just like in the Apple support document you linked. But if you try and take a photo of a bee on the flower, it will never give you a clear shot of the bee!

It's also weird that exactly the same bee photo comes out great on the 12 Pro but the 16 Pro just won't do it. It's almost as if some sort of AI filter is running over the image, doesn't understand what a bee is, and tries to ignore it...

 

[theorist9]

She's a fairly experienced photographer and certainly knows how to use the focus lock. And her 16 Pro will take beautiful photos of flowers, just like in the Apple support document you linked. But if you try and take a photo of a bee on the flower, it will never give you a clear shot of the bee!

It's also weird that exactly the same bee photo comes out great on the 12 Pro but the 16 Pro just won't do it. It's almost as if some sort of AI filter is running over the image, doesn't understand what a bee is, and tries to ignore it...

The AI assumed by 2025 all bees would be extinct.

Yeah, no idea what's going on. Here's a bee pic from a review of the iPhone 16 at https://mobilesyrup.com/2024/09/19/iphone-16-series-review-a-camera-built-to-give-you-control/
He writes:"The final camera upgrade is the ability to use the Ultrawide camera to take macro photos and this has been super fun. You can get insanely close to your subjects, making photos of small things like bugs pop in a way the base-level iPhones couldn’t do in the past."

...but I don't know how tricky it was to get this shot. If you have to take a lot of shots just to get one that works, that's not good. Also, it's possible your mom isn't trying to take macro shots, but rather general flower shots with the bees in the foreground.

Anyways, if your mom is really interested in this specific type of photography with her iPhone 16, she might want to email the the author (mentioning her difficulties w/the iPhone 16) to ask how he got this shot.

And here's another one (not as good) from Reddit: iPhoneography/comments/1ic8uql/bees_having_a_drink_iphone_16_pro_max_reeflex_app

Also from Reddit:
iPhone16Pro/comments/1g92pwd/iphone_16_pro_max_these_cameras_are_exceptional

Finally, these aren't stills, and they don't specify the iPhone generation, but they're pretty good:

apple on Instagram: "“When honey bees appeared in my life, I was hooked. It was love at first sting.” #ShotoniPhone by Jan L. @maxbee_beekeeping ‘more time (instrumental)’ by @bramasukarma"

67K likes, 483 comments - apple on November 13, 2024: "“When honey bees appeared in my life, I was hooked. It was love at first sting.” #ShotoniPhone by Jan L. @maxbee_beekeeping ‘more time (instrumental)’ by @bramasukarma".

www.instagram.com