"iPhone will never conquer enterprise" - Can someone with IT knowledge translate?

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by Kinderhauz, Jun 17, 2008.

  1. Kinderhauz macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2008
    #1
    I got a lengthy email from a gentleman who claims to work in IT for many different major companies. He says that Apple will never be able to work its way into the enterprise sphere, and that he expects Apple's stock price to crash as a result. Here is his argument, which frankly I cannot understand. If anyone can explain this to me I'd appreciate it.

    ?
     
  2. Sky Blue Guest

    Sky Blue

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2005
    #2
    The guy has no idea what he's on about. He makes some good points but he's way off on others.
    The corporation I work for has 300 Macs I look after and 500 Windows computers. All the Macs are bound to Active Directory. It's easy and simple to do. Anybody who has a network account can log in to any Mac or Windows computer so his "Mac doesn't currently and isn't ready to interoperate with Active Directory or Exchange. It -might- be slightly more prepared to work with a Novell environment. " quote is nonsense.

    The whole reason Apple have chosen to license ActiveSync is so they don't have to go down the BES server route. Schiller talks about this in the SDK presentation. There are advantages/disadvantages of both. If you already have a BES, of course you're more likely to go for a BlackBerry.

    This email is another knowledge Microsoft guy doing no research on Apple and pretending he knows what he's talking about.

    ...and Apple make at least 4 Windows products, iTunes, Safari, Quicktime and Bonjour (which you could actually class as Enterprise)
     
  3. Consultant macrumors G5

    Consultant

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    #3
    People who don't know that they don't know are the saddest of all.

    By the way, with each service release, MS "enterprise" products ALWAYS break something that was working which are time consuming to fix. MS centric programmers regard that as the way of life because they don't know any better.
     
  4. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

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    Mar 25, 2002
    Location:
    London, England
    #4
    They have some valid points, though they are poorly explained, but the fact they spell RIM as RIMM puts a slight downer on their credibility as an "expert". RIM = Research In Motion. There's no additional M.

    [edit] Hmmmm, RIM's stock is listed under RIMM, maybe that's what he's getting at. Probably not, but I'll give some small benefit of doubt. Though if this was the case surely he'd use MSFT and AAPL. [/edit]

    There are a lot more real and valid reasons why Apple will have a hard time, and they can be explained much better than this nitwit has.
     
  5. kevbernard macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    #5
    There are some good points made in the original post. But I also agree with most of the subsequent posts (apart from the one about MS constantly breaking - frankly it doesn't).

    Here's my perspective though. I'm Head of IT for my organisation, I'm also a frequent Mac & Windows user. I have an iPhone which I've been using for my corporate email (MS Exchange with IMAP) for some time now, and I can't wait for v2.0 to get "proper" integration.
    I also connect my mac to our corporate network with no particular issues.

    BUT, here's the thing. I can do all of this because I am the Head of IT, and I have full access to the resources of my department to set up and configure this stuff for me - along with being considerably more IT literate than my user base. Furthermore, I don't have to worry about corporate policies, security related or otherwise. I just do what I want :cool:

    I have to say though, that if one of my users came to me and asked to use a mac, or an iPhone and I wasn't personally a fan of these products then frankly I would tell them to go away as I don't want the headache.

    In fact, even though I use these things, I'd still be reluctant to let others use them as my support team have no experience with macs or iPhones, and so would not be well placed to help the users.

    For my organisation I recommend MS products because of the ready (and cheap) availability of expertise, as well as issues of interoperability.

    Apple may have the means to penetrate the corporate market if they wish. But it will be a massive hill to climb. This is not a criticism of Apple, but simply a fact of life for anyone other than MS right now.

    Whatever you may think of MS products the Total Cost of Ownership is lower for most corporates than any other product out there. Even so-called "free" products such as Linux or StarOffice will cost you more in the long term as you have to re-train your enitire user base, plus any new starters, and recruit or train support staff to deal with the new products and infrastructure.
     
  6. GotMac? macrumors member

    GotMac?

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    Jun 12, 2008
    #6
    One thing I can say is who wants to put iTunes on a server to do remote iPhone duties?
     
  7. diamond.g macrumors 603

    diamond.g

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    Mar 20, 2007
    Location:
    Virginia
    #7
    According to Apple, tons of companies...


    I know that the Airforce didn't like iTunes being installed on the computers. I didn't even know you could lock iTunes down so it only looks internally.
     
  8. BongoBanger macrumors 68000

    BongoBanger

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    Feb 5, 2008
    #8
    Some good points, some bad ones. It's a valid message though: the iPhone has a mountain to climb in terms of TOC, entrenchment, proven suitability and security and user preference to overcome. Don't expect it to happen overnight if, indeed, at all.

    As for APPL beign overvalued, yup, it is. That said, as was pointed out to me, it's not nearly as insanely overvalued as RIMM.
     
  9. TXCraig macrumors 6502a

    TXCraig

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    #9
    The OP is just touching on the some of the problems that Apple has to get worked out before they enter corporate environments.

    RIM is very secure and just about every company has invested in installing a Blackberry infrastructure. So there has to be something earth shaking to change that.

    I never really thought Apple would go up against the corporate phone market but I guess they decided to take it on. Using iTunes will have to go- they will never get companies to package and install this product on corporate machines locked internally or not. They could come out with a sync only product for the corporate customers.

    Please make sure you understand all the hype in the keynote. The comments about 35% of fortune 500 companies in the test may be true- how many are going to implement it? Its very easy to do a test without much management approval but its a different thing to implement it in production.

    They are wanting companies to develop corporate apps for the phone. I saw many of these from Microsoft on those iPac phones... remember those? They could push apps out over the wire.. shut a lost phone down... had secure SQL connections... looked real cool but never went much further then the demo.

    They have an uphill battle ahead of them in this space.
     
  10. SFStateStudent macrumors 604

    SFStateStudent

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    Location:
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    #10
    Not sure about the date of this person's research and analysis, but it seems to have cobwebs on it. I think they were referring to the RIM ticker tape symbol (RIMM), but probably should have used them for AAPL and MSFT. And the addition of Microsoft Exchange with ActiveSync to the iPhone line-up is not even mentioned, so nothing about connection with iPhone and corporate email server, pushmail, let alone any mention of the 3G iPhone and 3rd party webapps. Additionally, the introduction of "remote wipe" is not mentioned as well, addressing securely managing any confidential company information with enforced security and password policies. Most of this information is readily available leading up to and following SJ's Keynote at the WWDC this month. :confused:
     
  11. Kinderhauz thread starter macrumors member

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    May 28, 2008
    #11
    Thanks guys -- lots of really smart people on this board.
     
  12. Virgil-TB2 macrumors 65816

    Virgil-TB2

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    Aug 3, 2007
    #12
    the easiest way to parse this email would be ... bulls*t.

    He doesn't seem to know even as much as I do and I am no tech genius. His writing is all over the map and mostly makes no sense. I'm sure it sounded like sense in his head though. :)

    If I had to guess I would say he is a classic "Windows IT guy" who through years of working and training in Windows systems exclusively, believes that he knows all there is to know about computers when in fact he only knows his own limited and peculiar Windows oriented world.
     
  13. Michael CM1 macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    #13
    Wow. Dude takes a case with valid points and makes it into a Windows/BlackBerry fanboy rant.

    First of all, Apple makes three Windows apps: Safari, iTunes, QuickTime.

    Second, I can't believe much from anybody who touts the high security of Windows applications. I'm better that he thinks that because all of his schooling was for an MCSE and maybe CCNA/CCNP. Cisco's OS is so damned old school that it's not even funny. I'm glad I didn't go that route because relying on a command-line OS is just so 1985. Windows, we all know that.

    Mac OS is more secure because it's based on UNIX, or so I'm told. I don't blame corporate types for not adopting it because until a couple of years ago, it was NOWHERE. OS 9 wasn't very desirable (I still hate it), but OS X is a diamond. You see many more people writing apps for OS X, and market share keeps going up. Does this tool think all of the graphic design and multimedia (movie, TV, music) companies are completely devoid of security??

    The thing is after umpteen years of "trusting" Windows-based stuff and now using Macs for about 3 years, I will NEVER trust a Windows machine for anything again. I can't believe how complicated everything seems after using Mac OS for a few years.
     
  14. JPIndustrie macrumors 6502a

    JPIndustrie

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    Queens, NY
    #14

    It's not a fanboy rant. It's the truth. Corporate IT/IT with business applications is an entirely different mistress than what Apple traditionally specializes.

    The original post wasn't trying to favor one standard over the other, or claim that the iPhone 'will never make it'.

    In the end, corporate IT is just like any other part of big business, the application of IT resources to further the goals of the company while minimizing cost and ensuring the highest rate of return.

    Currently the Windows server system is that system, and while us IT guys know how great the Mac is, and hear it all the time - in the end, we're going to choose and recommend systems that are known extensively, and proven to accomplish the business' task.

    Apple understands that, which is why it's making a first step into the world of exchange. Perhaps we may see a Windows server competitor. Who knows.
     
  15. d21mike macrumors 68040

    d21mike

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    #15
    Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)

    iPhone with direct Exchange support solves most of these problems. As far as training your staff on the iPhone, that will happen mostly by itself. Like Windows PC, many technical people will want the iPhone so a lot of people will be self trained. And if those same people work in IT that will help to get them supported.
     
  16. skubish macrumors 68030

    skubish

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    Ann Arbor, Michigan
    #16
    A. I don't think Apple is trying to conquer enterprise in the near future. Its a long term goal but remember the iPod was a small player that only worked on Macs in the beginning.

    B. If some killer apps come to iPhone it could really drive certain companies to iPhone.
     
  17. R6laser macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    #17
    I work on military networks and I can tell you that its not only the Airforce, every branch in the military will not allow iTunes to be installed on their networks. Plus I have worked on other sites where iTunes is not allowed software. From that point of view I can see how some companies will always prefer a blackberry, actually they already do.

    Now, other companies who are not so strict on their security policies will probably allow the installation of iTunes.
     
  18. PoitNarf macrumors 65816

    PoitNarf

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    #18
    IT departments can only resist so much. As soon as a CEO or other high level executive wants an iPhone, be prepared to bend over backwards to support it...
     
  19. d21mike macrumors 68040

    d21mike

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    #19
    Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)

    Why is iTunes "required" on your work computer. I have iTunes on my home computer. When Exchange client is on my iPhone I should just be able to connect to my email server. Right?
     
  20. proc macrumors member

    proc

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    The Netherlands, Europe
    #20
    I have had several directors in the company (Pan-European petrochemical company) I work for, with a request to connect their iPhone 1.x.x to our Exchange Server environment. With the first iPhone I wasn't exactly waiting for things like this to happen, but with iPhone 2.0 I would consider to set these up within our corporate IP network (so with reduced functionality compared to our regular smartdevice offerings). I will need to examine this further however once it is released and you can be assured that I will not install any additional software on our Exchange environment, just because of the iPhone if there is no pressing need besides the iPhone.

    So to answer your question: don't assume that just because iPhone 2.0 will be released it will automatically be accepted by corporate IT environments, but it could be considered now. With iPhone 1.x.x there wasn't much chance of breaking through in corporate environments, so there is some insight in the case you pointed to.
     
  21. GoCubsGo macrumors Nehalem

    GoCubsGo

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    Feb 19, 2005
    #21
    I agree.
    My company, not the Airforce or even close to it, doesn't allow iTunes to be installed. I've also inquired about giving up my BB for my iPhone, they're confused and would like me not to even bring it up again. Frankly, I just don't think larger companies are willing to learn something new.
     
  22. PoitNarf macrumors 65816

    PoitNarf

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    #22
    Correct, if you're in an Exchange environment then all you'd need iTunes for is if you'd want to put music or videos on your iPhone.
     
  23. Michael CM1 macrumors 603

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    Feb 4, 2008
    #23
    Have you used Leopard Server before? I remember the pain of learning Win2000 server in school. One of the reasons I gave up on all that IT stuff a few years back. It may just be that way for all server stuff, but hoo-ah was it a lot to know (and we barely touched active directory).
     
  24. TXCraig macrumors 6502a

    TXCraig

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    #24
    What about installing apps and new firmware? You think you can do that over the wire too? What about backing up your phone config?
     
  25. PoitNarf macrumors 65816

    PoitNarf

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    #25
    Installing apps, yes that can be done through the App Store app directly on the iPhone. New firmware would require iTunes, as would backing up the iPhone.
     

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