iPhone without Contract in Germany? - 999€ UPDATE: Confirmed + 600€ for an unlock!

[csimmons]

Has it occurred to you that some-one with a wider view of the whole industry may actually have a better appreciation of whats going on (and where Apple is doing wrong) that some-one with your very narrow focus?

Your focus isn't exactly wide...

Having a good knowledge about all the players I have an informed unbiased opinion. You can chose to hear it, or live in your cocoon where Apple can do no wrong.

...as opposed to your cocoon where Apple can do no right?

BTW, some-one else mentioned Zune first.

That would be me. The reason why (which you interestingly chose not to reply to), which addressed your comment about MS's "reassurnces to it's partners" is in post #502 and #524

 

[samab]

People should remember that the iPhone came with 2 3rd party apps installed.

Both written by Google. I'd be surprised if Dalvic doesn't come to iPhone at some point, joining the two company's phone strategies. Remember Google is also going for the 900mhz band in the US. Both companies could side step the networks at some point. Just think about that!

It's 700 Mhz spectrum and it won't be vacated for a while and it doesn't have any hardware running it on at the moment.

To bring this back to the topic at hand, which is the protection of Apple's profits, what are they going to do when the first 3rd party app is an easy Amazon MP3 store? Or an IM client, so you dont have to use expensive AT&T SMS? Or a WIFI VOIP client? Are they going to block them to preserve their profit-sharing revenue projections, or go with the flow?

Every indication is that Apple is going to copy the Qualcomm BREW or imode model. Apple never said that the SDK is available to everyone. You probably have to pay for the SDK and you have to pay for the certification and you have to pay a revenue share like imode or BREW.

You buy the 3rd party apps from itunes --- which means that they are going to control what's on the catalog.

How many unauthorized imode or BREW apps are out there? Zero.

 

[emotion]

It's 700 Mhz spectrum and it won't be vacated for a while and it doesn't have any hardware running it on at the moment.

Sorry it's 900 that'll potentially be vacated here (uk). The timescale for all this stuff is immaterial. The fact that these moves are being made at all is incredibly interesting indeed.

 

[mccldwll]

I mentioned the Zune to demonstrate to Archie- how unreliable MS's promises and assurances to it's partners has become, since he mentioned how "MS reassured it's partners that it won't be making a Zune Phone, and will roll some of the Zune's functionality into Window Mobile 6" (quoting verbatim). They made a similar promise to their Plays For Sure partners, and shortly thereafter they came out with the Zune. My comments had nothing to do with the device itself.

That's the context in which Zune belongs--not where Archie used it (why did he bother to mention Windows and Zune at all if didn't also list OSX and iPods for similar proposition).
BTW, two days ago I was talking to a well educated, "with it", international travelling, Dell and MacBook Pro using, twenty-something professional. I mentioned Zune in some context. He asked what a Zune was!

 

[boz0]

649 euros in France

Well, there it is. Orange's iPhone offer begins today, 399 euros with a 49 euros/month contract (which is, for the French market, a rather expensive contract), or 649 euros unlocked.

I'm going to open an iPhone store near the German frontier : "Man spricht Deutsch."

 

[edesignuk]

Well, there it is. Orange's iPhone offer begins today, 399 euros with a 49 euros/month contract (which is, for the French market, a rather expensive contract), or 649 euros unlocked.

I'm going to open an iPhone store near the German frontier : "Man spricht Deutsch."

€649 = £464. Actually not too bad for a fully unlocked off-line iPhone. Top end off-line Nokia and SonyEricsson are around the same. Go French laws and pricing! ....can't believe I just said go French anything

 

[Blue Velvet]

can't believe I just said go French anything

Oh, I'm sure you've said that before.

 

[Archie-]

€649 = £464. Actually not too bad for a fully unlocked off-line iPhone. Top end off-line Nokia and SonyEricsson are around the same. Go French laws and pricing! ....can't believe I just said go French anything

So what happened to all the arguments of the other posters now? Is Apple going to take a sudden loss on the iPhone? Or are they happy enough with their 260% margin after all?

I guess Apple can always deny updates and support to these freeloaders who were hoping to get the wonderful Apple experience on the cheap. I mean, by rights they still owe Apple another €350, dont they?

 

[alFR]

They are obviously making a profit on it at £269, so they are making even more of a profit at £464. What's your point again?

 

[Archie-]

They are obviously making a profit on it at £269, so they are making even more of a profit at £464. What's your point again?

My point is that some people here argue that the 999 euro price is justified by the cost to Apple of ongoing support. In fact some people here claim the iPhone is subsidized at the £269 price, hence the need for locking it to a network.

So my point is, these people appear to be wrong.

 

[boz0]

My point is that some people here argue that the 999 euro price is justified by the cost to Apple of ongoing support. In fact some people here claim the iPhone is subsidized at the £269 price, hence the need for locking it to a network.

So my point is, these people appear to be wrong.

Puh-leaaaase!

Of course, the iPhone is outrageously overpriced. Of course, no sane person could *justify* the price.

Happily enough for Apple, they don't have to justify it, they just have to sell it, and, if their business model makes me want to puke, the interface they've designed just makes me drool.

Will I get one? Nope, no way I'm putting 400 euros in a goddamn phone. Will it be a commercial success? Seems so. At the very least, even if they sell less phones than they expected to, they'll have established themselves as a major player in the mobe market.

 

[Archie-]

Puh-leaaaase!

Of course, the iPhone is outrageously overpriced. Of course, no sane person could *justify* the price.

Hey, I agree! The people trying to justify the price are insane.

Happily enough for Apple, they don't have to justify it, they just have to sell it, and, if their business model makes me want to puke, the interface they've designed just makes me drool.

Will I get one? Nope, no way I'm putting 400 euros in a goddamn phone. Will it be a commercial success? Seems so. At the very least, even if they sell less phones than they expected to, they'll have established themselves as a major player in the mobe market.

Apple is obviously punching way above their weight. Nokia sold 110 million when Apple sold 1.2 million. Remember, Apple is only going for 1% of the market. They still have to reach much more than 1% of Nokia's sales.

 

[boz0]

Apple is obviously punching way above their weight. Nokia sold 110 million when Apple sold 1.2 million. Remember, Apple is only going for 1% of the market. They still have to reach much more than 1% of Nokia's sales.

Let's not compare Apple and oranges (yeah, I know, shame on me).

Apple is new to the mobile business, only ships a high-profile phone, and the quarterly results you mention only display the US sales, as the iPhone was not available in other countries at the time (it might include the UK, but that remains a very small part of their sales).

On the other hand, Nokia's portfolio includes many phones, and they have a very strong worldwide presence.

What would be interesting, though, is a comparison of Apple's market shares in the high-end phone business in the US, or worldwide once they've really hit the Europe and Asia markets.

At any rate, they've pitched the iPhone as a luxury product (as most smartphones are). They don't give a damn that Nokia's selling a hundred times more phones than they do, because they have a huuuuge margin, something Nokia sacrificed long ago, at least for their entry-level models.

 

[spinstorm]

I am sure plenty of you have seen that if you want an unlocked iPhone from France that it will cost 649 euros plus another 100 euros to unlock it.

That is £533 if I am correct - which to be fair is IN LINE with unlocked phones when they are new and very high tech - I bought an N95 without contract for £500 so its not as much as Germany and is much better.

Of course this leaves two issues - first of all will it be easier to get the phone unlocked than it has been in Germany? if it is then anyone from the UK could go buy one and bring it back and wait for it to be unlocked - very easy considering how close France is to England - a couple of hours by Ferry or 30 mins by train and Calais provides a nice quick stop off for an iPhone.

But it isn't so close you would want to go back to get the phone unlocked if the process isn't smoother than it is in Germany now.

You have to wonder if O2 may be pressurised into offering an unlock even at a premium here in the UK... after all if everyone else in Europe is doing it then why shouldn't they in the UK...

And also anyone in Germany who wants an unlocked phone could drive to France to get it even cheaper! So T-Mobile may actually have competition for unlocked phones from Orange!

Of course the big question I would wonder is what about issues with the screen - namely if you get an iphone with a problem replacing it will be very hard and will Apple in the UK accept it for replacement when you bought it in France or if your German and bought it in France? and good luck unlocking an iPhone that is replaced - I imagine that will be a bit of a big mess!

It will be very interesting to see what happens!

Just one quick question to those in Germany - how do you activate an unlocked iPhone? what happens in iTunes? Thanks.

 

[samab]

You have to wonder if O2 may be pressurised into offering an unlock even at a premium here in the UK... after all if everyone else in Europe is doing it then why shouldn't they in the UK...

O2 is not in the business of selling hardware, they are in the business of selling cellular telephone services. Everybody else in Europe is doing it because they are required by law (France) or by a temporary injunction which will likely to be reversed tomorrow (Germany).

Sales people don't get a commission selling you an unlocked iphone --- see if they care.

 

[Archie-]

At any rate, they've pitched the iPhone as a luxury product (as most smartphones are). They don't give a damn that Nokia's selling a hundred times more phones than they do, because they have a huuuuge margin, something Nokia sacrificed long ago, at least for their entry-level models.

And when I mention Windows Mobile is a major player in the high end I got laughed at. Either one has to accept the market is segmented, or not.

What would be interesting, though, is a comparison of Apple's market shares in the high-end phone business in the US, or worldwide once they've really hit the Europe and Asia markets.

Nokia just announced they sold a million Nokia N95's in UK in 7 months. In comparison Apple sold 1 million iPhones in 2.5 months. Win for Apple? Not quite.

The iPhone was surrounded by tremendous amount of hype, while the N95's release did not make the 6 pm news. The UK's population is 5 times smaller than USA. The N95 has clearly been selling at quite a clip, and much faster than the iPhone. IOW, if the UK has 300 million people, Nokia would have sold 2 million high end phones in the same period Apple sold 1 million.

To compare sales in the same population, the iPhone in UK sold 26 500 in 2 week's that 13 250 per week, whereas the N95 sold 36 000 per week to the same population, and without the hype.

And remember, the N95 is only one high end phone is Nokia's stable, and is only one high end Symbian phone from a wide choice of many, and is further only one high end smartphone from a big population of other smartphones.

I'm sure the iPhone is a major player - in USA that is.

 

[boz0]

[...]
To compare sales in the same population, the iPhone in UK sold 26 500 in 2 week's that 13 250 per week, whereas the N95 sold 36 000 per week to the same population, and without the hype.

And remember, the N95 is only one high end phone is Nokia's stable, and is only one high end Symbian phone from a wide choice of many, and is further only one high end smartphone from a big population of other smartphones.

I'm sure the iPhone is a major player - in USA that is.

While I understand your point of view, I still think that the iPhone has made an impressive entrance on the phone market, considering they weren't present at all, only offer a single device, and a pricey one, at that.

They've not suddenly become a major player, but they've sure made an impact on a stable, mature market, and that's no mean feat.

 

[Archie-]

They've not suddenly become a major player, but they've sure made an impact on a stable, mature market, and that's no mean feat.

I fully agree.

 

[Manic Mouse]

They've not suddenly become a major player, but they've sure made an impact on a stable, mature market, and that's no mean feat.

Had they not demanded a chunk of the monthly contract and simply sold the phone as is they could be dominating the mobile phone market. They're doing a Mac rather than an iPod with the iPhone. Overcharge and sell to those few who are willing to be gouged rather than go after the mass market.

Fine, but I'm not willing to be gouged and pay Apple four times what the iPhone costs to make.

 

[Stella]

If the iPhone is a Nokia competitor, WM is even more so, as they sold more than 12 million WM devices in the last financial year, and for example the HTC Touch sold 1 million to the iPhones 1.4 million in the same time, and thats only one WM handheld out of 44 device makers.

Symbian had twice the sales in the last quarter alone, and Nokia represents a significant chunk ( the sales figures come from royalty payments - one payment per device).

WM is a competitor, but a small one, though one that should not be ignored.

While I understand your point of view, I still think that the iPhone has made an impressive entrance on the phone market, considering they weren't present at all, only offer a single device, and a pricey one, at that.

They've not suddenly become a major player, but they've sure made an impact on a stable, mature market, and that's no mean feat.

They have made an impact, but in terms of sales, the iPhone is very small. It will be interesting to see if iPhone sales can maintain its momentum or just stall and fall off the radar.

 

[Archie-]

Symbian had twice the sales in the last quarter alone, and Nokia represents a significant chunk ( the sales figures come from royalty payments - one payment per device).

WM is a competitor, but a small one, though one that should not be ignored.

Its widely believed Nokia will release a WM phone next year, to help them penetrate the enterprise market (especially also in USA). People report having seen prototypes etc. They would be in good company, with Motorola, Samsung, LG all shipping WM devices.

 

[Stella]

Its widely believed Nokia will release a WM phone next year, to help them penetrate the enterprise market (especially also in USA). People report having seen prototypes etc. They would be in good company, with Motorola, Samsung, LG all shipping WM devices.

Nokia have already been putting exchange etc support into its Symbian devices. I really hope Nokia don't go with WM.

Moto, Samsung also ship Symbian devices too.

 

[Archie-]

Nokia have already been putting exchange etc support into its Symbian devices. I really hope Nokia don't go with WM.

Moto, Samsung also ship Symbian devices too.

Symbian is extremely successful and ever evolving. Nokia would only release one or two devices, much like Motorola and Samsung. If you are a hardware maker, is there really any benefit in confining yourself to only one OS, especially if you dont own it in the first place.

 

[ibricking.com]

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