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iPhone without Contract in Germany? - 999 UPDATE: Confirmed + 600 for an unlock!
- Thread starter DaveTheGrey
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Windows Mobile is competition for whom? In what market?
As far as mobile OS market share is concerned, WM devices have less than 5% share of the smartphone market (even less when counted into the total mobile market), behind Symbian, Linux and soon RIM and iPhone OSX. Numbers don't lie.
Anyone who has used WM-compatible 3rd party software knows that the vast majority of apps for WM are very poorly programmed, so the notion that WM is somehow competition for anyone based on it's supposed openness to 3rd party apps is simply wishful thinking. Again, numbers don't lie.
Furthermore, when Apple releases the official iPhone SDK in February - regardless of whether or not it's "fully open" or only "partially open" - the relevance of Windows Mobile will be reduced even more. Just the sheer numbers of hacks available for the iPhone today are a pretty good indicator of just how big 3rd party apps will play into the iPhone's future success.
In fact, the worst thing (and probably most likely thing) that could happen to manufacturers who use WM on their devices would be for MS to "pull a Zune" and start making their own mobile phone with a different, non WM-compatible OS, and sinking millions of dollars into such a device by marketing it as an iPhone killer. That would be funny.
If the iPhone is a Nokia competitor, WM is even more so, as they sold more than 12 million WM devices in the last financial year, and for example the HTC Touch sold 1 million to the iPhones 1.4 million in the same time, and thats only one WM handheld out of 44 device makers.
I said competition on the high-end, where most WM devices are located. There are many tens of cheap midrange Symbian devices, which people do not even know are smartphones, whereas all WM devices are very obviously smartphones. The reason why this is relevant is because the margins are with the high-end devices, and therefore the competition is most fierce there.
The 20 000 WM apps include thousands of professional commercial apps that will take a long time to come to the iPhone. You can not really compare iPhone hacks.
3 of the top 5 phone makers make WM devices (Motorola, Samsung and LG) with only Sony Ericsson and Nokia not making WM phones. WM has the majority of the USA smartphone market. Nokia has licensed WM technologies such as Exchange Activesync, PlayForSure and Windows Live Search.
This is an interesting comment, because MS has gone out of their way to reassure their partners there will be no Zune phone, and has recently said they would fold some of Zune's features into WM.
I'm sorry, but you clearly dont know much about the competitive lay of the land, despite says "numbers don't lie".
The corporate situation is totally different when Navteq is a small and independent (compared to Nokia and Google) vs. Navteq being a part of the Nokia empire.
Most people mistakeningly think that iMode and BREW as computer language (especially with the talk of brew vs. java). iMode and BREW is just mainly a revenue sharing business model --- they certifies your apps, put them into the catalog and collects a percentage of the revenue.
DoCoMo keeps 9% of the revenue. Qualcomm keeps 10% of the revenue.
http://www.ebstrategy.com/mobile/case_studies/ntt_docomo.htm
http://www.wirelessweek.com/qualcomms-brew-gains-ground.aspx?terms=
Nokia has been trying to do the same thing since 2004 with Preminent.
http://telephonyonline.com/mag/telecom_nokia_clears_content/
The first thing analysts talked about when apple announced the iphone sdk is that it will look like the qualcomm brew model of revenue sharing.
http://www.mobile-tech-today.com/ne...pp-Revenue-/story.xhtml?story_id=120006Y62CXC
Considering that Finland has been allowing 3G phones to be simlocked in 2006 --- they are beginning to change as well.
True, but 2/3 of phones are still sold unlocked in Finland, and the new law is temporary. There will be a goverment review next year to see how allowing simlocking has affected competition in telemarkets, and that will decide if the law will be continued or not.
I should add, since this came up as a part of discussion about Nokia's secret plan to lock everything, that Nokia lobbied against that law, but telecoms managed to get what they wanted (they whined for years and years to get this right).
Personally I would like to see return to old system. Finland used to have cheapest minute rates on the planet and the best service. Now with simlocking telecoms have started the same kind of crap that they do elsewhere (i.e lure your customer in with cheap phone prices and then suck them dry with long plans, sucky service and expensive prices).
So wait, are Apple's updates needed because the product was unfinished, or does everyone do product updates? You're going to have to decide for yourself whether you think they're a good thing or a bad thing.
Its pretty simple - if you are going to ship an unfinished product, the updates better be free. Whats not to understand about that?
An example of service without ongoing fees is when Nokia enabled AGPS for the N95. The N95 always had GPS, but lock on was slow. Now with their free AGPS update lock-on's are fast, and the device work better. This is an ongoing service, requiring devices to download ephemeris data from Nokia servers. Strangely no subscription is needed. Apple would expect at least $50 for the same thing.
http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/July2007/4937.htm
Its amazing how that $2 WIFI update conditioned Apple fans to accept the whole broken model.
If Finland is like every single country that moved from banning simlocking to allowing simlocking --- then the policy will stay the way it is. Nobody is ever going to go back to "3G beauty contest" model or simlock banning.
It's only a free service if you don't use the navigation feature.
You mean the voice guidance. Thats separate from the AGPS update and turn by turn navigation works otherwise perfectly fine without voice guidance.
Of course you can also install any 3rd party navigation software package for Symbian, and there are quite a few of them. You would still have the benefit of the AGPS service, even without using the built-in navigation software.
Thats the whole point of an open vs closed system. Trying to make a good device instead of trying to monetize every little feature.
If this is true why are the cell phone data and voice plans more expensive in Great Britain and Europe?
Is this really true anymore? T-Mobile UK has unlimited data for $15, and their $25 plan allows tethering and streaming. Thats cheaper than AT&T's rates AFAIK. For $45 you get VOIP and a 10 GB fair use limit, which is better than Verizon's 'secret' 5GB cap.
3 in UK allows Skype use over their 3G network, and they sell a Skype phone.
Times they are a'changing.
iPhone data and voice plans are more expensive in Europe, but not mobile rates in general. Of course it's not just about price but spread and availeability of 3G, HSDPA, pay services with your phone etc. He also mentioned "world" not "Europe". Parts of Asia are way more advanced in mobile technology than most of Europe.
The problem with that argument is how many people buys a N95 vs. how many people paid for a nickel and dime Qualcomm BREW-based turn-by-turn navigation software (which is the most popular software purchased by Verizon Wireless subscribers).
GPS turn-by-turn software is the only 3G killer app. Like it or not --- Qualcomm was the only one who saw it coming and monetized it (Qualcomm installed 100 million cell phones with AGPS all the while Nokia was still hyping video calling).
Nokia was late in the GPS game, had apps that was slow and nobody wanted to pay for that --- that's why the Nokia GPS apps are free.
The problem is that while allowing VoIP on paper is good --- HSDPA is still not good enough to do VoIP yet (for the general public). Same thing with the Skype on 3 --- not ready for public consumption yet.
It's easy to promise the world when the technology is still in alpha.
Also TMO UK is not really that good in the UK (their subscriber numbers only look like a 3rd place carrier because of Virgin Mobile UK) --- so if their data rates are cheaper or that they have more GB allowance, that's really unfair to compare it with the top network carrier (Verizon Wireless) who charges a premium on their rates.
Or it could be because people like Google and Microsoft were giving away GPS navigation for free? Google Maps has reduced the value of mapping software tremendously, just like Gmail reduced the value of offering gigabyte-sized mailboxes. Nokia could have done 2 things - either block the installation of the free java google maps app, or make their own app free. By your theory they would do 1, but they did 2 instead, because they are an open vs underhanded company.
You seem to offer plenty of excuses why real examples do not matter. The main thing is that these services are out there, in a competitive market, being used by consumers.
To bring this back to the topic at hand, which is the protection of Apple's profits, what are they going to do when the first 3rd party app is an easy Amazon MP3 store? Or an IM client, so you dont have to use expensive AT&T SMS? Or a WIFI VOIP client? Are they going to block them to preserve their profit-sharing revenue projections, or go with the flow?
This sounds a lot like Steve Ballmer's "The Zune has 10% of the high end hard disk MP3 player in the over $250 market" statement at the beginning of the year.
Extrapolating the "high end" out of the equation doesn't hide the fact that WM has a very small percentage of the market compared to Symbian, Linux and soon RIM and iPhone OSX
The point was: there is extraordinary interest in 3rd party apps for the iPhone, and when the SDK is released, there will be even more. 20000 WM apps don't really mean much at all. If none of these apps come to the iPhone, so what. Others will.
Actually, US smartphone market shre was until recently pretty evenly split bwtween WM and RIM (about 28% for WM compared to 26% for RIM), with Symbian, Palm and Apple (in it's first quarter of sales 1.8%) pulling up the rear. With the latest NPD numbers indicating that as of the current quarter, roughly 27% - 1 out 4 - smartphones sold in the US were iPhones, it's clear that WM is NOT as big a player as you seem to believe.
Furthermore, all of the above manufacturers also make non-WM smartphones as well. You seem to think that having a lot of devices with WM makes it a big player in the market, but if out of those 44 or so WM devices only 1 or 2 are actually selling, the former number is pointless.
Oh, just like they assured their Plays For Sure partners they would not come out with their own digital media player, then came out with the Zune, right? I see...
Sorry, but I think I showed pretty clearly that I indeed do know the lay of the land. You, however, read a little like a typical MS apologist, unfortunately.
Sorry, but you still dont know what you are talking about. You are mixing up feature phones, like the iPhone and the vast majority of Linux phones, with smartphones. Come back when the iPhone actually has a native SDK.
I originally questioned whether Archie was employeed by Nokia based on his attack on the iPhone coupled with his fawning over the N95. Then somewhere along the line he expanded, and actually brought up the Zune. NOBODY mentions the Zune (an endangered species) in a technology discusson with a straight face, unless employeed by, or "consulting" for, mr softy. Archie's continuing attack on the iPhone while simultaneously naming/supporting/promoting several other players in the greater industry, suggests a poster with several paid sponsors (I would say a "wannabe" Enderle or Dvorak, but they're already "wannabes"). If you doubt this for one minute, just reread some of his posts. It's unfortunate that some are resorting to this, but demonstrates just how threatening the iPhone has become to the status quo. Watch out for this stuff, especially from newbie posters.
I'd like to beg everyone to please use multi-quote. So many of you are double and triple posting in a row, use multi-quote or edit your posts.
Has it occurred to you that some-one with a wider view of the whole industry may actually have a better appreciation of whats going on (and where Apple is doing wrong) that some-one with your very narrow focus?
Having a good knowledge about all the players I have an informed unbiased opinion. You can chose to hear it, or live in your cocoon where Apple can do no wrong.
BTW, some-one else mentioned Zune first.
Your #467:
"Do PS3 owners pay Sony every month for software updates (that add extra functionality even)? Or Xbox owners? Or WIFI router owners? Or Zune owners? Or N95 owners? Or Mongul owners? Or Windows owners?"
Ok, I said it first, but you were the first to go off-topic arguing about it. My mention was completely on-topic for devices which recently got new firmware updates which added functionality, and you decided to dismiss it by saying they did not exist.
Which is rather typical of your level of debate.
As I stated twice before, the 3rd party SDK for the iPhone will be here in February. That however doesn't mean that there aren't already 3rd party apps for the iPhone right now; some Web-based, some unauthorized native.
According to you, a phone isn't a smartphone unless it has 3rd party apps. Thing is, the iPhone has 3rd party apps already, but in your world, if the apps aren't native, then it's not a "real" smartphone, correct?
A typical Windows Apologist view of the market.
I mentioned the Zune to demonstrate to Archie- how unreliable MS's promises and assurances to it's partners has become, since he mentioned how "MS reassured it's partners that it won't be making a Zune Phone, and will roll some of the Zune's functionality into Window Mobile 6" (quoting verbatim). They made a similar promise to their Plays For Sure partners, and shortly thereafter they came out with the Zune. My comments had nothing to do with the device itself.
Everyone has a different definition of smartphone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone
"A smartphone is a mobile phone offering advanced capabilities beyond a typical mobile phone, often with PC-like functionality. There is no industry standard definition of a smartphone[1][2]"
"The most common operating systems (OS) used in smartphones are:
.....
.....
OS X from Apple Inc. (1.3% Market Share)"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone
"A smartphone is a mobile phone offering advanced capabilities beyond a typical mobile phone, often with PC-like functionality. There is no industry standard definition of a smartphone[1][2]"
"The most common operating systems (OS) used in smartphones are:
.....
.....
OS X from Apple Inc. (1.3% Market Share)"
People should remember that the iPhone came with 2 3rd party apps installed.
Both written by Google. I'd be surprised if Dalvic doesn't come to iPhone at some point, joining the two company's phone strategies. Remember Google is also going for the 900mhz band in the US. Both companies could side step the networks at some point. Just think about that!
Both written by Google. I'd be surprised if Dalvic doesn't come to iPhone at some point, joining the two company's phone strategies. Remember Google is also going for the 900mhz band in the US. Both companies could side step the networks at some point. Just think about that!