Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I think that’s what people struggle with the most here. There is a rumor with somewhat shaky details and people are ready to blow up the entire production line, call it a hardware issue, design flaw, say Apple is in shambles, they don’t QC products, and their Android phone never has issues.

With Apple’s scale, any MAJOR issue affecting a large portion of devices would be clear cut and immediate outcry that would be headline news everywhere.

The fact there are some issues just speaks to the fact Apple sells 10s of millions of phones per month.

The issue is almost always fixable via software and only impacts a small subset of customers.

Yep, that is likely how this will play out. If 1% of the phones have an issue, then that is 10s of thousands of users already who could come to chat boards like this. If it is software, it will get fixed. If it is manufacturing issue, then the phones will be replaced for free. If it is a design issue, then Apple has an issue. But it is unlikely to be a design issue if it is only impacting a small percentage of users.
[doublepost=1537900038][/doublepost]
The last real design issue was probably the Jobs era iPhone 4 you’re holding it wrong. I have a lot of confidence in Apples ability to make good products on a massive scale. You also had the bending iPhone 6, but only if you bent the phone or sat on it.

When is the last time an actual component was recalled on a massive scale? If it’s something serious, Apple would have no choice.

Well to be fair, the keyboards and crumbs issue for the laptops was a design issue. One that only cropped up a bit, but far more than it should have. And Apple had to fix the design in its new laptops. I'd put that about at the same level as the antenna issue. I had both a blackberry and an iPhone at that time and I could hold my blackberry in a way to drop the bars as well. I never had an issue with the iPhone only I forced it with a not normal grip. And Apple kept selling that design. While they have stopped selling laptops with last year's keyboards by and large.
 
Yep, that is likely how this will play out. If 1% of the phones have an issue, then that is 10s of thousands of users already who could come to chat boards like this. If it is software, it will get fixed. If it is manufacturing issue, then the phones will be replaced for free. If it is a design issue, then Apple has an issue. But it is unlikely to be a design issue if it is only impacting a small percentage of users.
How many users this is affecting vs how many users actually notice and report it will be two entirely different things I am afraid. Most everyday iPhone users are not going to be like you and I or the other people here. We here are extremely persnickety and will notice these subtle nuisances for the worse. How many every day casual "oh I have an iPhone" people that you know of in your opinion would even notice such differences? I would venture to say less than 1%.

We here at MR are NOT your average ho hum Apple people. This is something to be proud of, even though sometimes ignorance is bliss. Being this on top of things is a double-edged sword IMHO. Many days I wish I wasn't this involved LOL ;)
 
Okay guys... I took my Pixel 2 into the office today to get a little bit more data. This is what I have come up with:

It seems like some are having issues after restoring a backup when they set up their new phone. That is probably unrelated to what I am about to type and what I provided in the quoted post. I set my iPhone up as new since I am coming from a Pixel 2.

I am ONLY talking about actual RF performance - not speeds. I am dealing with raw data on Verizon. Everyone's experience will be different depending on carrier and active LTE band. Each LTE band can and will have their own performance to a certain degree.

So what I have found besides the quoted post above?

My Verizon LTE connection in terms of pure coverage is actually relatively close to my Pixel 2. No LTE drops on my commute... Only during the brief elevator ride did it drop, but then it immediately regained LTE within 5-10 seconds once I got off of the elevator.

Now lets get to the actual issue (if there is one):

For Verizon's Band 4 (AWS), my Max is averaging about 7dBm worse than my Pixel 2 - granted my Pixel 2 was pretty good on that band. I had a Pixel 2 XL briefly and the smaller Pixel 2 beat it on average by 3-4 dBm. So the iPhone isn't AWFUL. But not exactly great in that band.

For Verizon's Band 2 (PCS), my Max is averaging actually relatively close to my Pixel 2. I would definitely say within the margin of error - maybe 2-3 dBm on average worse. Nothing too bad.

For Verizon's Band 13 (700MHz), my Max is also averaging about 2-3 dBm worse than the Pixel 2 - so again within what I believe would be the margin of error.

So what does this all mean? Well each carrier is different... Each band is different. In terms of what it means for me (or probably most Verizon users), is that coverage wise it should be pretty similar. The problem is in areas that are congested and/or fringe AWS/PCS areas. I have areas that I used to be on AWS B4 (with CA on B13), but I am now only on B13. That means less throughput/spectrum available to me which = less speed... Also it means most likely more users on B13 only seeing as iPhones are extremely popular which = less speed. I would expect that is these fringe areas that speeds may plummet.

What about those that seem to get a good connection for awhile after Airplane mode or resetting Network Settings? Well this can also be explained. When you initially connect to a cellular network it has a tendency to pick the strongest connection (B13 for Verizon). After anywhour ere from about 30 seconds to a few minutes, the network will try to dump you off to a higher frequency (B4 in my case). That's all good and all, but these iPhones don't seem to have good RF performance in that band.. Which causes the lower signal quality and may be leading to some of your issues.

"Oh - but I am not having issues - this can't be true!!" - Oh but it can be true. Everyone will have different experiences at different cell sites and different times of the day. Each network tries to manage users and offload them onto other bands to free up capacity, etc. If you now have connection to only the main coverage band (B13 on Verizon, B12 on T-Mo, B12/B17 on AT&T) then your throughput will be reduced. HOWEVER, if you are in an area with overall great coverage and cell spacing then you may never experience this.

Long winded response from me on this. Take this as you will. Most will probably ignore it or call it fake news. I don't care. I have been playing around with phones and comparing RF performance on them for years (started back when I was with Sprint because of their swiss-cheese network - had to get the phone with the best RF performance then, ha!). Take the data and manipulate it as you wish. :D

How do you tell which band you're using and can you do see that info on your iPhone?
 
And your hysteria and temper tantrums are? Get real! Only an Apple engineer and or engineering team can make that call.
Who do you think I am working with? The only person throwing temper tantrums on this site is you :)
[doublepost=1537900341][/doublepost]
How do you tell which band you're using and can you do see that info on your iPhone?
Yes you can put your phone in fieldtest mode and it will tell you
 
Workplace parking lot:
2633AC02-59DD-4A65-88F3-09FF90FD7F45.png


Inside workplace building, second floor, no windows:
2585AC3A-BA95-4CA6-91AC-3A7318C553E6.png


My previous phone (X) had slow to nonexistent performance inside this same building, in the same room. So this is actually a small improvement!
 
  • Like
Reactions: aka777
How many users this is affecting vs how many users actually notice and report it will be two entirely different things I am afraid. Most everyday iPhone users are not going to be like you and I or the other people here. We here are extremely persnickety and will notice these subtle nuisances for the worse. How many every day casual "oh I have an iPhone" people that you know of in your opinion would even notice such differences? I would venture to say less than 1%.

We here at MR are NOT your average ho hum Apple people. This is something to be proud of, even though sometimes ignorance is bliss. Being this on top of things is a double-edged sword IMHO. Many days I wish I wasn't this involved LOL ;)

Ha so true. I know far too much about the latest iPhone.
I hope yours gets sorted soon. And I do hope you get some official analysis of the issue before your 14-day trial period ends.
 

This doesn't prove anything. What I want to see are speed tests run using an iphone 6s and X and the Xs side-by-side simultaneously, using the exact same speedtest server.

On a side note. It's well known that Samsungs have better burst speeds and even reception. However, a note 9 doesn't have anywhere near the smoothness of an iphone, let alone long-term support from Samsung. Samsung basically abandons their phones are year or two after launch. Software updates grind to a halt and they stop producing their batteries, so you have to rely on 3rd parties. wash, rinse, repeat with the next Samsung handset.
 
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-max-even-worse-than-iphone-x.2140854/page-26

DrinkJuiceShelb on Twitter: "@MacRumors @reneritchie @9to5mac an hour on the phone with Apple, we fixed the issue with W…



"an hour on the phone with Apple, we fixed the issue with WiFi/Cellular on iPhone Xs Max. You have to restore with a computer without a backup. I know its crazy to think we still have to do this, but it worked and fixed both WiFi and Cellular!"


"Complete restore with iTunes and as New device unfortunately. It’s literally night and day now. Blazing speeds." Then no restoring from backup.
 
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-max-even-worse-than-iphone-x.2140854/page-26

DrinkJuiceShelb on Twitter: "@MacRumors @reneritchie @9to5mac an hour on the phone with Apple, we fixed the issue with W…



"an hour on the phone with Apple, we fixed the issue with WiFi/Cellular on iPhone Xs Max. You have to restore with a computer without a backup. I know its crazy to think we still have to do this, but it worked and fixed both WiFi and Cellular!"


"Complete restore with iTunes and as New device unfortunately. It’s literally night and day now. Blazing speeds." Then no restoring from backup.
I wonder if there is any legitimacy to this at all...?
 
"an hour on the phone with Apple, we fixed the issue with WiFi/Cellular on iPhone Xs Max. You have to restore with a computer without a backup. I know its crazy to think we still have to do this, but it worked and fixed both WiFi and Cellular!"


"Complete restore with iTunes and as New device unfortunately. It’s literally night and day now. Blazing speeds." Then no restoring from backup.

Yes but will it stay blazing fast a few hours from now? That is the real question!
 
  • Like
Reactions: roncron
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-max-even-worse-than-iphone-x.2140854/page-26

DrinkJuiceShelb on Twitter: "@MacRumors @reneritchie @9to5mac an hour on the phone with Apple, we fixed the issue with W…



"an hour on the phone with Apple, we fixed the issue with WiFi/Cellular on iPhone Xs Max. You have to restore with a computer without a backup. I know its crazy to think we still have to do this, but it worked and fixed both WiFi and Cellular!"


"Complete restore with iTunes and as New device unfortunately. It’s literally night and day now. Blazing speeds." Then no restoring from backup.
hmmmmm When I first got my Max last Friday I did not do a restore from backup on my iMac from iTunes, but instead did setup as "New" and I was having the wifi issue. Are you saying that in cases like mine, do "another" restore to "New" would solve the issue even though I originally already did it that way? Seriously asking.
 
  • Like
Reactions: roncron and dspdoc
Hmmm... interesting. If it’s a design flaw with the XS antennae it may be worth getting a Qualcomm X.

From my (limited) testing the Qualcomm X did not perform better than the XS in one poor-signal quality edge-case cellular situation.

Qualcomm iPhone 7 and 6S outperformed both though.

I can’t speak to the WiFi performance of the X vs XS, and I think it’s worth mentioning again that the XS absolutely crushes the other phones on cellular throughout when it has 2 bars of signal or more.

Personally I’d rather have the better cellular and 5GHz WiFi reception of the older models than the higher throughout of the XS. I don’t need 150mbps vs 80mbps, but 5-10 mbps solid is definitely better than 0-2 intermittent. But I do like everything else about my XS!
 
  • Like
Reactions: apolloa
hmmmmm When I first got my Max last Friday I did not do a restore from backup on my iMac from iTunes, but instead did setup as "New" and I was having the wifi issue. Are you saying that in cases like mine, do "another" restore to "New" would solve the issue even though I originally already did it that way? Seriously asking.

I set mine up as new also and have horrible cellular problems. So I am not sure that fix will work .
 
  • Like
Reactions: roncron and DotCom2
Coming from a iPhone 6S to a XS I haven't noticed any major speed changes. Wifi and 3G/LTE speeds match my 6S.

Funny part is that the article mentions that some people are noticing that the phones seem to prefer 2.5ghz network vs 5ghz if it is named the same. I had this issue with both the 6S's that we had, so I renamed my 5ghz network. I don't see this as being a new issue.
 
hmmmmm When I first got my Max last Friday I did not do a restore from backup on my iMac from iTunes, but instead did setup as "New" and I was having the wifi issue. Are you saying that in cases like mine, do "another" restore to "New" would solve the issue even though I originally already did it that way? Seriously asking.
I can’t say this was why I don’t have issues, I can only talk from my perspective. I decided with my iPhone XS to set it up as new, my iPhone 7 had been though all updates so far including 12. When it was on one signal or two signal bars you could not get any data flow to even browse.

It took me along time to transfer everything manually sending pictures over via Airdrop and and reset my apps and preferences. All I know is I have no problem with Wi-Fi or 4G (UK) Maybe that helps I cant say or recommend that much work without someone doing some serious testing on that way of setting up or taking a poll here and even then that’s just a snapshot of the total number of users.

To be honest we could talk about this over and over and hypothesise for hours and never really know until Apple comes up with a fix or explains what’s going on. Or if setting up as new really helps, because when you’ve got years worth of data on your phone it’s not fun doing it my way and that includes not using any iCloud backup either. Let’s just say I have adversity to the cloud.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: DotCom2
From my (limited) testing the Qualcomm X did not perform better than the XS in one poor-signal quality edge-case cellular situation.

Qualcomm iPhone 7 and 6S outperformed both though.

I can’t speak to the WiFi performance of the X vs XS, and I think it’s worth mentioning again that the XS absolutely crushes the other phones on cellular throughout when it has 2 bars of signal or more.

Personally I’d rather have the better cellular and 5GHz WiFi reception of the older models than the higher throughout of the XS. I don’t need 150mbps vs 80mbps, but 5-10 mbps solid is definitely better than 0-2 intermittent. But I do like everything else about my XS!

I have a 6S currently. I’m going to an Apple store next week hopefully so will have a play with all the phones and have a think. Trouble is the XS has a hell of a camera... but cellular and WiFi reception are quality as important, especially for the price! Daft to pay a grand for a phone that can’t get mobile reception.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.