iPhones on iOS 12 Will Automatically Share Precise Location Data During 911 Calls in United States

[Breaking Good]

So I guess when people want to report a crime and remain anonymous they won’t be able too. So they’ll report less crimes and then the governments can publish nice reports showing how crimes have gone down.

If you want to report a crime anonymously then you'll have to call from an anonymous number. Unless you are using a prepaid phone that was purchases with cash chances are a call can be traced back to someone.

This new system just gives EMS an exact location of the iPhone from which a call was placed. The other information like caller id is already available.

Cell phones are continuously providing their location to the cellular networks as are many apps. If you don't want to be tracked either power your phone down or don't carry it on you person.

 

[fireguy286]

I'm glad to hear that such a feature is in the works... and hopefully I just missed some one-liner somewhere in the article, but there is one detail that I'd kind'a like to know: How do they plan on implementing this for the legacy CDMA/LTE carriers? Verizon and Sprint both still default to CDMA for basic phone communication, and when a phone switches over to CDMA mode, cellular data just flat shuts off entirely. So how does Apple plan to get that critical location data to the emergency services reps, when data comms are down during the phone call?

This hasn't been true for Verizon for some time now...unless you've intentionally turned it off or stuck on an old 3G phone. Voice is carried over LTE and data works concurrently. Even Verizon's dumbphones are LTE now.

 

[TTTedP]

I'm glad to hear that such a feature is in the works... and hopefully I just missed some one-liner somewhere in the article, but there is one detail that I'd kind'a like to know: How do they plan on implementing this for the legacy CDMA/LTE carriers? Verizon and Sprint both still default to CDMA for basic phone communication, and when a phone switches over to CDMA mode, cellular data just flat shuts off entirely. So how does Apple plan to get that critical location data to the emergency services reps, when data comms are down during the phone call?

Thats the part the article and positive spin leaves out. This is for LTE only. Traditional (and potentially less accurate) methods such as cell ID, aGPS etc would be used on a 2G or 3G call.

 

[NightFox]

Hoping there will be the ability to turn this feature off.

So to protect your privacy (or whoever's privacy you're concerned about), how would your call go? Something like:

"Help, I'm injured and I need an ambulance"
"OK, where are you?"
"Not telling."

or

"Please, come quick, my house is on fire and I'm trapped inside it with my family"
"What's the address?"
"I'd rather not say"

or

"I need the police, there's a guy running round with a gun"
"What's your location?"
"Ha, nice try! You don't catch me out that easy though!"

 

[lunarworks]

I think Google were involved in developing it.

Which means swatters are gonna find a way to spoof locations on Android.

 

[lederermc]

It's hard to believe this didn't happen 10 years ago.

 

[centauratlas]

I am curious what precisely "starting later this year with iOS 12" means.
1. Is it active with the beta?
2. If not #1, will it be?
3. Will it be with iOS 12.0.0? Or 12.4?

I guess no one knows, but we'll find out.

Funny, but related to the other article on the state of Mac hardware, look how they ended the PR:
"Apple revolutionized personal technology with the introduction of the Macintosh in 1984." (but it hasn't been QUITE that long since it was updated. )

 

[djlythium]

Won’t using a VPN during such an instance (assuming the VPN is connected to a non-local server) be a bad thing?

...asking for a friend.

 

[Cndnmax]

And the user will be able to turn this off, if desired. Is this correct, dear apple ?

Yeah, you just don’t dial 911 lmao. What’s the point Im of calling for help if u don’t want them knowing where u are lol. FYI, they can already do this to a certain degree. Probably safer if u just don’t call anyone and turn on airplane mode. Can’t take any chances.

 

[joeblow7777]

So to protect your privacy (or whoever's privacy you're concerned about), how would your call go? Something like:

"Help, I'm injured and I need an ambulance"
"OK, where are you?"
"Not telling."

or

"Please, come quick, my house is on fire and I'm trapped inside it with my family"
"What's the address?"
"I'd rather not say"

or

"I need the police, there's a guy running round with a gun"
"What's your location?"
"Ha, nice try! You don't catch me out that easy though!"

Yeah, it’s funny how concerned some people are about their privacy in this scenario. If you’re calling 911/999, it probably means that your or someone else’s life is in danger and you need emergency services to find you. There are other means to contact police or other services if it’s less urgent.

 

[Cndnmax]

I’m just here for the Tin foil hat people that seem to have forgotten that they bought a device who’s main purpose is to track your location and learn your day to day habits.
Hey genus, Go back to using payphones because you can’t make anonymous phone calls with a number that is linked to your name, ssn, address, bank/credit card info, and DOB.

 

[Zxxv]

This was my thought... Yes, some people call 911 as a prank, and this tech could potentially be used to trace them and fine them. It's also invaluable to help people in an emergency. But it will put people off calling 911 if they wish for anonymity. I guess there's still Crime Watch/type lines for people to call without this tech outing them... And frankly - if as suggested this could save 10,000 people per year...

They’ll have to do it the old fashioned way. A phone box.
[doublepost=1529335367][/doublepost]

Interesting. What is the effect of doing that? The iphone will still see what’s available (brought casting) no?

It’ll still see what’s available but any you connected to by accident etc or in the past can be deleted and therefore forgotten. It’s just easier than doing it whilst out and about on your iPhone

 

[skippingrock]

Bring it to canada

No thanks.

 

[Zxxv]

When you call someone's phone number, it doesn't send their location back to you is the reason.

You and me ain’t the police and government.
[doublepost=1529335752][/doublepost]

I’m just here for the Tin foil hat people that seem to have forgotten that they bought a device who’s main purpose is to track your location and learn your day to day habits.
Hey genus, Go back to using payphones because you can’t make anonymous phone calls with a number that is linked to your name, ssn, address, bank/credit card info, and DOB.

My iphone isn’t connected to all those things.
[doublepost=1529335987][/doublepost]This auto merging of posts is stupid. I see a post reply that I like but I can’t thunbs up because it also merged someone else’s post reply that I don’t agree with.

Who’s stupid idea was that feature?

(Banned again for speaking my mind in 3,2...)

 

[Gasu E.]

And the user will be able to turn this off, if desired. Is this correct, dear apple ?

I hope not. The 911 systems was developed for landlines, and was set up based on the fact that the location of the caller was already known. Now, we have people fumbling to provide rambling vague directions while under the extreme duress of an emergency situation. The result is that 911 lines get tied up and first responders may get sent to inaccurate locations. Because there is now more burden on the caller, the caller may end up providing a less useful description of the emergency, resulting in poorer preparedness of the responder. That's a very serious issue when the emergency is a police situation, who (at least in the USA) are more likely to use unnecessary violence if the come with a limited understanding of the situation.

If you are uncomfortable with the change, feel free not to use 911. It's a public service, and you have every right not to use it.

 

[iSee]

Won’t using a VPN during such an instance (assuming the VPN is connected to a non-local server) be a bad thing?

...asking for a friend.

No, VPN affects the connections you make, but this system is only based on your proximity to WiFi access points and cell towers, aside from making any connection. (GPS isn't affected by VPN either, but that's more obvious.)

You're probably thinking of websites that try to guess your location based on how packets are routed to their servers. Those are affected by a VPN.

 

[Will.O.Bie]

"Landline" - that's something future generations will never know ever existed.

That being said, this will help even further in providing critical services to those that really need it. I've seen an ambulance circle a few times in my neighborhood trying to look for the scene or place of the emergency until someone ran up to flag them down. Those critical minutes driving around trying to find the emergency can mean hours to someone who's probably having a stroke, every second counts.

And enough with the "well I don't want the government following me" argument. You won't be saying that, God forbid, if you ever have an emergency. If you worry so much about the government spying on you, ditch your phone completely and move to the mountains.

 

[Gasu E.]

So I guess when people want to report a crime and remain anonymous they won’t be able too. So they’ll report less crimes and then the governments can publish nice reports showing how crimes have gone down.

Why? This doesn't provide any additional information other than the location of the call; which, if you are using 911 properly, you would otherwise be providing verbally. Your actual identity? Yeah, the government can already get that your phone called 911, from phone company metadata. They also keep your voice data from 911 calls, which can be used to verify your identity.

 

[Zxxv]

And enough with the "well I don't want the government following me" argument. You won't be saying that, God forbid, if you ever have an emergency. If you worry so much about the government spying on you, ditch your phone completely and move to the mountains.

Don’t think anyone’s saying that. Me for instance I’m just asking about the feature etc and wondering it’s effect in certain areas and circumstances.
[doublepost=1529337013][/doublepost]

Why? This doesn't provide any additional information other than the location of the call; which, if you are using 911 properly, you would otherwise be providing verbally. Your actual identity? Yeah, the government can already get that your phone called 911, from phone company metadata. They also keep your voice data from 911 calls, which can be used to verify your identity.

Not everyone phoning wants to give their identy. Just phone in a crime. Now it’ll pin point there exact location and could then pin them at the scene and later with some put together evidence criminate them. It happens. Some people think this way. Others don’t.

 

[Gasu E.]

This was my thought... Yes, some people call 911 as a prank, and this tech could potentially be used to trace them and fine them. It's also invaluable to help people in an emergency. But it will put people off calling 911 if they wish for anonymity. I guess there's still Crime Watch/type lines for people to call without this tech outing them... And frankly - if as suggested this could save 10,000 people per year...

As many have stated, they already have plenty of data to identify which phone, and which caller, are calling. 911 from a non-burner phone is not anonymous today. What they don't know is the precise location of the caller.

Maybe some drug dealer using a burner who witnesses a crime won't call it in now... hahaha.

 

[ineedamac]

This is a nice addition to iOS. I hope it helps emergency services respond faster.

 

[Zxxv]

Maybe some drug dealer using a burner who witnesses a crime won't call it in now... hahaha.

Someone might phone in a crime and get linked to the crime based on their location when calling and some one making up a false statement/confession to cover their own ass.

Stranger things have happened. Stranger things have been done by bent coppers.

 

[slimtastic]

So to protect your privacy (or whoever's privacy you're concerned about), how would your call go? Something like:

"Help, I'm injured and I need an ambulance"
"OK, where are you?"
"Not telling."

or

"Please, come quick, my house is on fire and I'm trapped inside it with my family"
"What's the address?"
"I'd rather not say"

or

"I need the police, there's a guy running round with a gun"
"What's your location?"
"Ha, nice try! You don't catch me out that easy though!"

Your logic is flawed. If I call 911 on an iPhone that I own, that I paid for, I should have the option to allow the phone (or disallow, in this case) from sending location information automatically. Simply from a security standpoint. It should be an OPTION for users, not a requirement.
What happens if this technology is circumvented (which, it inevitably will be), and hackers are able to gather this data for themselves, say, by remotely running a script that calls 911 (hey, we saw this last year!) and then they can intercept the data.

You have to think outside the box here. Nothing in the tech world is as straightforward as you seem to wish it were. Where's the harm in giving users the option?

 

[Zoboomafoo]

Apple best fix the broken wifi on/off switching in control centre then.

I keep it turned off most of the time in settings since they broke control centre. I don't mind leaving it on it's just that it's plain broken - keeps turning itself back on every day, and when location changes which is very annoying on the daily train commute, breaking connectivity. I usually find it attaching to non working wifi's (had to turn off ask to join networks as it was forever popping up) or ones it noticed we just passed by. Then there are apps keep prompting to turn it back on for location accuracy. A very poor user experience.

Solution is simple, make control centre off mean do not try and use wifi for connectivity, I'm fine with it listening to help location accuracy. Then I might leave it on in settings.

I notice messages checks it can connect to iCloud to decide if it should use SMS instead. They could do something similar to decide if the wifi is working enough to use instead of sitting there with no data moving.

I think you’re in the wrong thread?

 

[Zxxv]

Your logic is flawed. If I call 911 on an iPhone that I own, that I paid for, I should have the option to allow the phone (or disallow, in this case) from sending location information automatically. Simply from a security standpoint. It should be an OPTION for users, not a requirement.
What happens if this technology is circumvented (which, it inevitably will be), and hackers are able to gather this data for themselves, say, by remotely running a script that calls 911 (hey, we saw this last year!) and then they can intercept the data.

You have to think outside the box here. Nothing in the tech world is as straightforward as you seem to wish it were. Where's the harm in giving users the option?

They’ll probably make it so when law enforcement calls it triggers the feature. Then they just need to call the number to get a fix. You know how these things work. We’ve all seen the films. We’ve all seen the news.