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iPod Nano Class Action Suit

ericschmerick said:
Dude, have you ever seen an ipod nano that's been in someone's soft cotton pocket for more than 10 minutes? It's hilarious how many people on this forum seem to be speaking authoritatively about this issue who clearly have never seen a nano in the wild.
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I own a black 2GB and a white 4GB, and carry one or the other virtually everywhere I go... in my jeans watch pocket.

When viewed with the same sort of casual attention everybody normally gave to their normal iPods, prior to the hysteria that started everybody to squint and stare-really-hard, they're both similarly scratched to any of the other 20 or so iPods I've used through the years.

Oh, and I make my living working every day with China manufacturers on these exact issues... including spec'ing and evaluating polycarbonates and coatings.

There may have been a batch of badly coated outer nano shells slip out, repsonsible for the handful of worst, most-obvious 'scratch' issues... I have no clue. But, the bulk of photos I've seen posted by scratch whiners are of the scale I have seen since the first iPod on my own iPods.... and are perfectly within the bounds of reasonable expectation given any reality-based understanding of the materials involved.
 
Two nanos

Having purchased 2 nanos at the same time, same store, same shipment, I've have noticed differences in how the surface of each nano has fared. Both nanos have had lives inside Apple iPod Socks. One of the two did well with the sock, only showing minor swirls on the surface from occasional fingerprint removal. The other has vertical lines etched into the face from the ribs of the iPod Socks. iPod Socks are suggested by Apple as a solution for protecting the nano, yet in this case, one of two seemingly identical nanos was scratched by that product.

Is the nano unusable? Not so far. But it has taken a tremendous amount to care and delicate handling to keep the scratching to a minimum. The image is somewhat obscured, especially when viewing photos. (Since the nano doesn't connect to a TV for photo viewing, the screen is the primary viewer.) Over a short time, I expect one of the two nanos will become scratched to the point that the photo viewing will not be a viable option. It may not be the primary use for most people, but I actually do carry a lot of photos.

I guess my point is that the argument about whether or not a nano scratches beyond use is somewhat subjective. And it appears to me that not all nanos are necessarily created equal. Is it worth a lawsuit? In my small sample, 50% of nanos purchased seem to be prone to the issue hand. I'll need to wait and see what percentage a larger sample yields. ;)

These are iPods number 5 and 6 in our household, and I will say the previous 4 have been more durable and resistant. And yes, we now have cases for the nanos, as we have for 3 of the 4 siblings.
 
Kobushi said:
I have a Genration 2 iPod, and to this day, it doesn't have a single scratch on the screen. Why? Because I have a cheap little case that has prevented it for the past 3 years! My wife made herself one for her ipod out of some cheap, albeit nice-looking, fabric. Are people really not this self-sufficient that they have to blame everyone else for their lack of vision?
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My 60gb photo's screen is pretty scratched up... why? Because I use the Apple-supplied slip case for it. It's so snug that any foreign objects that get inside of it (ie, tiny bits of dust, etc) cause scratching. Meh. Would I sue em for it? Nah, I'm not American :p
 
the ancient debate of form v function

yes the ipod is beautiful but as a product designer one should know that putting polished polycarbonate on the front and a chrome effect back to the product is a receipe for disaster for portable electronics. These finishes are highly unsuitable for everyday life, that is why a lot of electronic's manufacturers give their surfaces a slight egg shell or matt finish as it hides the scratches but it does reduce the shininess of the product :p. I love my iPod and i have have had two (a first gen and a 4th gen) but Apple needs to toughen up the product.

How about brushed metal or bead blasted airgrade aluminium the material used in the powerbooks for the back. But how about apple just including an ipod sock with each iPod for protection, it wouldn't cost the earth and would be fun, especially if people could choose the colour at the counter or just got the silver one in the box. Apple should really be taking steps to ensure that this didn't happen, if those of you remember the better imac, the g4 one with the rather unique arm, it had a matt finish on the base which was good and didn't show scratches.
 
NVRsayNVR said:
Here's my 2 cents about the matter...

I have a black nano and by just touching the front of the thing with my finger left hair scratches. These can be buffed out. No problem. Now, if you are NOT going to use a protective case and a paper towell to wipe your little precious gem clean, you deserve scratches!

C'mon people...Use your head!!! Common Sense is FREE!!

Why litigate? Oh....And please don't put ANY iPods in your pocket with other items that might harm it's lustrious finish. Treat it rather like contacts and put them in protective cases! DUH!
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Common sense is not common practice.
 
You know that saying, "a watched pot never boils?" Well, to paraphrase, "an examined iPod is always scratched."

News flash: The fine "scratch" pattern you see in direct sunlight isn't an indication of a defect. It *comes* that way. Cars have it, plexiglass window dividers have it, as do iPods, glossy cell phones, iBooks, bottles of shampoo, CD cases, hardcover books, Nalgene bottles, metal dinnerware, dinner plates, and basically anything shiny. As the polish wears off, the factory buffing starts to show through.

Everything MacWhispers has said about the materials has been pretty much right on the money. I've never seen an iPod that didn't have a fine layer of scratches on it. It's much harder to detect on the 4G, where the polycarbonate was tinted white as opposed to the nano and 5G which have a transparent layer on top of a colored backing. This transparent layer makes the iPod surface a mirror, but shows scratches more easily. But those scratches aren't any worse than any other iPod...they just appear more distinct because of the reflective properties.

Exposure to natural elements and hazardous environments (clean pants pockets included) causes fine scratches. Microfiber cloths actually become one of the most hazardous things for glossy surfaces because they trap dust and debris and turn into an abrasive material if not properly cleaned and stored after each and every use.
 
I think that Apple should just sell 'iPod Polishers' on their website and make more money from the issue.

Fact is, anything plastic will scratch easily if it is in contact with abrasive or pointy metal things.

I have a nano. It is scratched, after 6 weeks, to the point where the screen is starting to appear a little smudgey. I haven't taken any particular care with it, but I haven't put it into a pocket with my keys, which would certainly gouge it to bits.

Fact is - black shows scratches more, higher resolution screen will get affected by scratches more. Core functionality - that of selecting and playing music, is not affected unless you can't read slightly distorted text, and that issue is more with the user than the player.

Many of these people are saying that it happened really quickly. In that case, return the player within the period of time you have to return it. Oh, but they'd lose a little money on the deal due to 'restocking fees' (yeah, like Apple could restock a scratched iPod nano).

I think this is a lawyer trying to jump on the lucrative class-action lawsuit train.

However I think the nano should have come with a small protective case with a hole in the bottom for the earphone cable. It would have given Apple a safety net - "they didn't use the protective case" (they wouldn't have, and you know it).

Me? I might buy one of those plastic polishing kits you can buy for a few dollars. Anyone recommend a particular brand? Maybe Apple could offer a free 'iPod Polish' in their stores with this stuff.

devilot76 said:
But even conscientious users savvy with how to take care of tech products have noted scratches coming from soft cloths as well... If that is indeed the case, then that would be why these consumers are upset-- because even upon following the manual's suggestions, the iPod is still getting scratched up (but the paper towel thing is a bit out of line).
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Paper towels are by definition abrasive - they are used to clean things as well as mop up spills, and abrasive materials do both better. Have you ever used one to blow your nose in lieu of a tissue or hanky? Yeah, it makes your nose sore if you do it a couple of times.

Anyone rubbing a paper towel over their nano is asking for trouble, in my opinion.

Using a soft cloth on my nano resulted in ZERO extra scratches. Maybe their hands are so greasy that the grease streaks look like scratches to them, and rubbing a cloth over that would make them more linear and scratch-like.
 
There seems to be a bunch of people even on this forum having problems with their nanos scratching heavily. Yet I haven't seen a single picture of nano where the screen would have been rendered unusable. Sure I have seen few photos of the black nano having couple of thin scratches but nothing that would make the gadget completely unusable. If scratching is as widely spread problem as is claimed someone ought to open a thread about nano scratches on the picture gallery section where we could collect evidence that this is an actual problem.

As I don't own a nano yet I can't really tell whether this suit is justified or not but the fact that they're asking for a share of the profit is ridiculous. I mean if the court finds for the plaintiff and they are given a share of the profit wouldn't that be on the expense of the other nano users who now - by court decision - own a defective gadget?
 
Please stop jumping to NASDAQ/APPL's defense all the time.

Apple probably spends more a month funding their legal department in a month than *anyone* here makes in his/her entire lifetime, please dedicate your time to something more worthy... for you may someday accumulate more wealth in your lifetime than does Apple legal in a month!

Having said that, I'm happy to see Apple getting sued. Don't get me wrong, I do love Apple products.

But let me sum up my experience with my iPod(s):

1st iPod: iPod 4G 20GB player.
When it first arrived, I was so excited to get it. Opened the box.. wow.. it's so great all and all, until one day I was sitting at my desk and looking at the light from my desklamp reflected off the LCD display.

Apparently the screen was either forced on or something, because you can see the tension causing the middle of the screen to reflect light in a multitude of ugly colors (go try it on a cheapish calculator by poking your finger nails on it, that's exactly what I meant).

The screen looked outright ugly in moderately bright light, so I called the Apple helpdesk, and ended up speaking to one of their staffers who spoke with a really strong indian ascent (I'm in Australia, maybe they outsourced support for Aussie call centres to india) that it is normal.

Ah well, guess I will have to *suck it*.

2nd iPod: iPod Photo 30GB

As it was, a couple months later the cheaper version of the iPod Photo was released, and gosh, it was pretty affordable!!

So off my first iPod went.. on eBay.. never to be seen again. Ordered the new iPod Photo, screen was significantly better definitely.. until I synched in my music collection, and discovered to my horror. Goodness, it sounds CRAP!

I brought it back to the nearest NextByte (Authorised retailer) and after spending sometime with the staffers, I left.. I'm not really one who likes to argue, and that staffer is probably doing his job. Besides I doubt he knows nothing about music probably.

Anyway there has been quite a few incidents of this being reported on iPod Lounge and Headfi.org, of how some iPod Photo units have a "tin can" like song for musical tracks. It sounds absolutely heinous. I was so happy to leave my iPod sitting on my desk collecting dust.. for FOUR MONTHS. No way wiill I subject my ears to that kind of abuse.

3rd iPod: iPod Photo 60GB

Anyhow I decided to give them a chance again, and finally a player that I'm happy with. But 3 weeks later the video iPod came out. Damned you Steve Jobs!! :D

I'll probably get the vPod... not so soon, but at least until after Apple pulls up its socks and actually starts to spend somemore money delivering, instead of sitting there expecting to sucker consumers for ever.

Apple wants to be a premium brand, fine.. I'm good with that.
Apple wants to cosy up to consumer market.. fine, it sounds reasonable.
Apple wants to charge a premium, and cut costs/corners on what it delivers? That is not fine by my book.

Just look at how the firewire cable was removed from the package... and now with the vPod, look at how the usb wallplug is conveniently dropped as well.

For ****'s sake, a firewire cable was probably... $2? Mind you, these things are insanely cheap in China. The wallwart? Probably $5-$10? Fanbois might go "no way!", but tell me, what's the difference between the Apple wallwart and any other generic one? Essentially none, it might look nicer, but the nicer plastic at best will only cost $1 more. The same step down transformers and stuff inside... the same stuff that caught fire on some powerbooks, mind you.. the same low quality junk.

Hence, Apple should get sued more. You want to charge more, you jolly well make sure you deliver.
 
teemu said:
There seems to be a bunch of people even on this forum having problems with their nanos scratching heavily. Yet I haven't seen a single picture of nano where the screen would have been rendered unusable. Sure I have seen few photos of the black nano having couple of thin scratches but nothing that would make the gadget completely unusable. If scratching is as widely spread problem as is claimed someone ought to open a thread about nano scratches on the picture gallery section where we could collect evidence that this is an actual problem.

As I don't own a nano yet I can't really tell whether this suit is justified or not but the fact that they're asking for a share of the profit is ridiculous. I mean if the court finds for the plaintiff and they are given a share of the profit wouldn't that be on the expense of the other nano users who now - by court decision - own a defective gadget?
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This is a good idea. A Nano picture thread to document this "problem."

That strange rustling sound you are now hearing is the sound of people moving lights around and finding the most exaggerating angle to take pictures of their scratched nanos. If the results are unsatisfactory, people will start rubbing them on wool sweaters or carpet, just to achieve the right effect in the photographs.
 
ZicklePop said:
I love Apple but I hope they lose. They need to learn how to make a solid product that DOESN'T SCRATCH. First rule of product making: Don't build it like butter.
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Since when the hell is THAT the first rule of product making?
 
generik said:
Apparently the screen was either forced on or something, because you can see the tension causing the middle of the screen to reflect light in a multitude of ugly colors (go try it on a cheapish calculator by poking your finger nails on it, that's exactly what I meant).
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I don't know how much exactly you know about manufacturing, but manufacturing of anything is an imperfect science. You see, the Earth has, what I like to call, gravity. Things made in a "Gravity Rich" enviroment tend to favor one sode or another. Imagine, if you will, a cup of yogurt with blueberries in it. After a while, the blueberries will all sink to the bottom. The rate that this occurs can be controlled by temperature, but barring the freezing of the solution outright, it will happen. Manufacturing is the same way, polycarbonates in plastics will "clump" together to form pockets of more and less dense areas.

Now, let's take the example of automotive glass. The glass itself in most cars is about as close to flawless as glass can get. The glass in BMW windshields is polished to such a sheen, that water will not stick. Windscreen glass, however, is three layers. Two layers of high strength glass, in between which is sandwiched a thin layer of lexan. Lexan is a plastic, its purpose in auto glass is to prevent the windshield from turning your face into jerky if a rock hits it. Even the windshield in my fine Bavarian automobile suffers from the deplorable refraction of light which you so knowledgelessly speak of. It's a fact of life. All plastics do it. BTW, if you leave your iPod out in a hot car ever, you'll notice that the effect gets worse. The high heat generated inside the car does just enough to excite the molocules in the polycarbonate to the point of mild shifting.

Bottom line, your arguments are foundless and without merit. Bottom line part deux, find something else to whine about. How about you start off with that strange dampness you feel when you stand out in the rain.
 
I bought a Nano the day on its release and after 3 days it was scratched like hell. Apple did not tell me that it could scratch *this* easily.

If I get the opportunity to get me money back I would do that.
 
My nano screen scratched from using a fine eyeglass clothe to wipe away fingerprints. I use this clothe on my glasses and cell phone without any issues.

Bottom line is the lawsuit has merrit and I would return it if they let me.
 
I visited my local Apple Store last week and looked at the several Nanos that they had out on display. I have no idea how long they had been on display, but they certainly didn't appear to be unusable or excessively scratched. If they had been out there even a couple days, based on the complaints here, I would have expected the display models to be scratched. I know people at the Apple Store aren't causing scratching by putting them in their pockets, and maybe that says something about the real cause of the problems.
 
Sun Baked said:
Apple lawyers will probably get this kicked out of state court into the federal court system where it'll die quickly, and thank Bush for signing the Class-Action Fairness Act of 2005.
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He gets the one check against the growing list of 40+ issues he's screwed us on :rolleyes:

I think the issue is the Nano's size. It's smaller, the screen is smaller and the Nano might be put in places it was not put before resulting in more nickel, dime and quarter scratches. Also, I would NOT be uses PAPER products such as rough paper towels to clean the PLASTIC screen of a $200+ electronic device! Use a microfiber shammy people!!
 
Warped1 said:
My nano screen scratched from using a fine eyeglass clothe to wipe away fingerprints. I use this clothe on my glasses and cell phone without any issues.
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If that's the case then yes, you do have a defective nano. I polished my first nano with a cloth and even my shirt sleeve. The guy I sold it to on ebay asked me if I was certain it had been used because it looked so good.

When I got my new nano (I upgraded from a 2 to a 4GB model) I protected it out of the box. Every ipod I've owned has been susceptible to scratches if it's not treated with kid gloves.

If I buy anything like this that costs a fair bit of money, I protect it. My cell phone gets a screen cover from day one and so does my iPod.

However, if your nano scratches that easily then it's made of softer stuff than the two I've owned.
 
Knowing about the issue, I simply left the protective plastic shield on that the nano came with. I can use the nano just the same with the shield, and it stays pristine underneath. If this thing comes off, I'll just put a transparent cling shield on -- bought one on Ebay that covers the whole nano and looks great. I also got Speck Products' clear hard case, and their white "cloud" case.

I have to say, the metal *back* side scratches like crazy, though. I had the nano simply sit on my desk for a day or two (without touching or moving it), and the moment I picked it up again, it had two scratches across the back side that do bother me.
 
After reading through this thread, all I can say is "WOW". I'm always amazed at the number of Apple apologists in an otherwise really intelligent group of people.

I've got a nano, no scratches on on it yet, but we heard about people having theirs scratched from DAY ONE. And all this talk about people putting nanos in their pockets without a case getting 'what the deserve'? I mean, did you guys NOT see the CEO of Apple take a nano out of his pocket without a case on it when they were INTRODUCING the product?

If that isn't an indicator of what they expected normal and intended use to be then I'm not sure what is. I'm not a big fan of lawsuits like this, but it looks like this one is worth taking a look into. I'm not saying they should give nano owners anything, yet, but it is worth looking into more closely.

It makes me a little sad to see people who are part of an otherwise generally a smart, balanced, helpful community be such raving zealots.
 
YOU SHOULDNT HAVE TO PUT IT IN A CASE need I compare to non apple murchandise? Zen micro went in my pocket with change and everything this in my opinion a vastly inferior music player but the screen managed to stay scratch free. My dad just baught a cheap five gig hd based music player from motorola for about 150 dollars he doesnt treat it like a baby but its screen is still scratch free. Dont give me bull about a case being necesary you shouldnt have to put a case on. If you want it to stay immaculate you can get a case. However you should not have to put on a third party case just so your product remains useable!!!!!

mrgreen4242 said:
After reading through this thread, all I can say is "WOW". I'm always amazed at the number of Apple apologists in an otherwise really intelligent group of people.

I've got a nano, no scratches on on it yet, but we heard about people having theirs scratched from DAY ONE. And all this talk about people putting nanos in their pockets without a case getting 'what the deserve'? I mean, did you guys NOT see the CEO of Apple take a nano out of his pocket without a case on it when they were INTRODUCING the product?

If that isn't an indicator of what they expected normal and intended use to be then I'm not sure what is. I'm not a big fan of lawsuits like this, but it looks like this one is worth taking a look into. I'm not saying they should give nano owners anything, yet, but it is worth looking into more closely.

It makes me a little sad to see people who are part of an otherwise generally a smart, balanced, helpful community be such raving zealots.
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do you use a case?
 
Apple seems to be listening....yesterday I called into Apple because my 4g 20 gig (BW) is having major problems, long story short, because I had the same problem with a previous iPod they were very kind and offered me a 5G iPod 30 gig. The woman I spoke to was an iPod product specialist named Kendra...she was very sweet, almost flirtatious..anyhow she said you can choose between white and black, but I will tell you, just like a black car, the black iPod will show scratches much more easily....she actually said 10x more easily..so who knows what that means..but at least this anecdote shows that in general scratching is on the minds of the people at Apple, especially considering the 5G's come with some sort of case.
 
Spievy said:
Does this mean we can sue our car manufactures for broken or scratched windshields?
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No it means you can sue your car manufactures if the dust in the air causes the paint to peel while driving.
 
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