I use my iPod to listen to music at my desk at work. If I used my phone to do this I would have to constantly stop the music to answer texts and phone calls. Having a separate music player is nice.
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iPod touch iPod touch: Dead or Alive
- Thread starter Yebubbleman
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I use my iPod to listen to music at my desk at work. If I used my phone to do this I would have to constantly stop the music to answer texts and phone calls. Having a separate music player is nice.
If i don't need full-time internet, why do i need to be jailed in a 2-year contract and waste my money instead of being it useful?
The smartphonization of society, sometimes makes me puke...
Again, I'd like to stress that, rather than discussing whether or not you think it has a place in the market (because that's a debate that is much more impassioned and less fact-based), the point of the thread is to discuss whether or not a continued future of the iPod touch is likely and to either prove or disprove some tell-tale signs that its place in Apple's line-up may be disappearing.
We could all go on about how much we either love or don't understand the love of such a device. We could go on for hours with "Why don't you just get an iPhone" or "I don't want to be locked into a contract/it's expensive out of contract!". What I'm most interested in here is "do you see the signs? Is the writing on the wall? Yes or no and why?"
The iPod classic was neglected to the point where it was obvious two years ago that it would never be updated again. The signs were there and they only worsened until it was official.
The iPod touch is starting to show similar signs despite how much more useful it is. Two September events without updates? It even being one generation of CPU old OUT OF THE GATE was even telling. These are things I'm wondering the community's thoughts on. Because these are NOT good signs of a continuing product line.
While I'd believe a 5.5" non-iPhone device to be marketed as an iPad nano, a 4.7" device doesn't seem apt for that for some reason.
Most people own smartphones. The iPod touch serves well if you have an Android or Windows phone and you still want iOS in pocket form. Also if you are a developer developing for iPhone, an iPod touch is great for that. They make great devices for testing apps as well given that you can buy one for as cheap as $150 refurbished or $200 new and devote it to testing apps.
While I agree with all of that, the question isn't so much "is there a market for it" because obviously, all of us here would buy it. The question is "does Apple feel that way?" and "is there data to suggest that they will" and if so, "how will they proceed?"
While I appreciate your opinion here, it doesn't seem like you say much to justify or support it. iPod touches and iPhones both have the same iTunes and App Store interfaces. Buying music on one is an identical experience to buying it on the other (save for how slow the iTunes, iBooks, and App Store apps perform on the A5 processor of the fifth generation iPod touch relative to how they perform on the iPhone 5/5C/5S/6/6 Plus). It is curious that Apple bought Beats, which does seem to reflect an interest in consumer audio hardware. Though how this relates to portable music playback hardware (be it iPhone or iPod, remains to be seen).
Yes, absolutely. Though, I doubt they'd market it that way, especially if it was an "iPad nano" and not an "iPod touch".
At 16/32/64 GB, there's not a whole lot of room for all that much media if you also have that much apps. That stuff adds quickly. Also, these days, kids are given cell phones pretty young. It's not inconceivable that kids are being given something like an iPhone 5C or an iPhone 5S (which at 16GB and 32GB is superior to any iPod touch in every way) and told to have fun. At that point, if they're given a cell phone and an iPod touch, they might as well be given an iPhone, especially if their parents are already doing family plans (which most do).
While I have often had use for an iPod shuffle (it lives in my car), I could see it making sense to discontinue it. Uses for it are fairly limited. The iPod nano, if updated to have capacity similar to the higher-end iPhone 6/6 Plus models, would make the most sense to keep around as it's small (which Apple seems to love for its music players) and, at that point, it'd hold a lot of music.
Much as I am quite fond of it, I see the iPod touch going away as the fact that it is not updated and STILL running as slow of a CPU as it is (especially with iOS 8) is not the sign of a product line that Apple seems to be throwing energy into.
$50 for a music-playing device made by Apple is pretty decent, to be fair. The shuffle has enough storage to store enough music to last a good 20 hours, which is a long time to be working out.
While I agree that it is a niche market, keeping it with an A5 does render it useless to a point. They should either update it or discontinue it as the user experience will eventually be lackluster. It's already not great now. It already feels like my first generation iPod touch felt with iOS 3.1.3 and how my third generation iPod touch felt with iOS 5.1.1, and in common those were the last supported builds of the OS for those devices, and with good reason.
Otherwise, your analysis is quite sound and logical, given the facts.
Agreed. Pretty much any A5-based device, and that even included the A5X-based third generation iPad has less than stellar performance with the App Store and the iTunes Store apps.
It'd be awesome. But unlikely. Though to see a 5.5" device be called an "iPod" also seems unlikely, hence my hypothetical "prediction" of such a device being an "iPad nano" and not an "iPod touch".
It'd need to have 64GB minimum at this rate. A lot of people clung to the iPod classic because 64GB was too small.
While this may seem like a slight nitpicking issue, I think that, you're right, that may be very telling indeed.
It's true, one of the bigger threats to the iPod touch is the iPad mini as it's similarly priced and substantially more powerful. It does miss out on a lot of the software features that separate the iPhone from the iPad (Passbook, Stocks, Weather, Calculator, Voice Memos, and Health Apps). Not to mention, as is the case with the full-sized iPads (though worse on the mini), running apps that were programed as iPhone apps on the iPad mini is not a great experience. Though it is perfectly doable.
We could all go on about how much we either love or don't understand the love of such a device. We could go on for hours with "Why don't you just get an iPhone" or "I don't want to be locked into a contract/it's expensive out of contract!". What I'm most interested in here is "do you see the signs? Is the writing on the wall? Yes or no and why?"
The iPod classic was neglected to the point where it was obvious two years ago that it would never be updated again. The signs were there and they only worsened until it was official.
The iPod touch is starting to show similar signs despite how much more useful it is. Two September events without updates? It even being one generation of CPU old OUT OF THE GATE was even telling. These are things I'm wondering the community's thoughts on. Because these are NOT good signs of a continuing product line.
I would say that the iPod touch is more an ipad nano, and believe Apple will market it as such when it's updated along with the iPads later this month. At least that is my theory.
While I'd believe a 5.5" non-iPhone device to be marketed as an iPad nano, a 4.7" device doesn't seem apt for that for some reason.
Most people own smartphones. The iPod touch serves well if you have an Android or Windows phone and you still want iOS in pocket form. Also if you are a developer developing for iPhone, an iPod touch is great for that. They make great devices for testing apps as well given that you can buy one for as cheap as $150 refurbished or $200 new and devote it to testing apps.
While I agree with all of that, the question isn't so much "is there a market for it" because obviously, all of us here would buy it. The question is "does Apple feel that way?" and "is there data to suggest that they will" and if so, "how will they proceed?"
While I appreciate your opinion here, it doesn't seem like you say much to justify or support it. iPod touches and iPhones both have the same iTunes and App Store interfaces. Buying music on one is an identical experience to buying it on the other (save for how slow the iTunes, iBooks, and App Store apps perform on the A5 processor of the fifth generation iPod touch relative to how they perform on the iPhone 5/5C/5S/6/6 Plus). It is curious that Apple bought Beats, which does seem to reflect an interest in consumer audio hardware. Though how this relates to portable music playback hardware (be it iPhone or iPod, remains to be seen).
Yes, absolutely. Though, I doubt they'd market it that way, especially if it was an "iPad nano" and not an "iPod touch".
At 16/32/64 GB, there's not a whole lot of room for all that much media if you also have that much apps. That stuff adds quickly. Also, these days, kids are given cell phones pretty young. It's not inconceivable that kids are being given something like an iPhone 5C or an iPhone 5S (which at 16GB and 32GB is superior to any iPod touch in every way) and told to have fun. At that point, if they're given a cell phone and an iPod touch, they might as well be given an iPhone, especially if their parents are already doing family plans (which most do).
While I have often had use for an iPod shuffle (it lives in my car), I could see it making sense to discontinue it. Uses for it are fairly limited. The iPod nano, if updated to have capacity similar to the higher-end iPhone 6/6 Plus models, would make the most sense to keep around as it's small (which Apple seems to love for its music players) and, at that point, it'd hold a lot of music.
Much as I am quite fond of it, I see the iPod touch going away as the fact that it is not updated and STILL running as slow of a CPU as it is (especially with iOS 8) is not the sign of a product line that Apple seems to be throwing energy into.
$50 for a music-playing device made by Apple is pretty decent, to be fair. The shuffle has enough storage to store enough music to last a good 20 hours, which is a long time to be working out.
While I agree that it is a niche market, keeping it with an A5 does render it useless to a point. They should either update it or discontinue it as the user experience will eventually be lackluster. It's already not great now. It already feels like my first generation iPod touch felt with iOS 3.1.3 and how my third generation iPod touch felt with iOS 5.1.1, and in common those were the last supported builds of the OS for those devices, and with good reason.
Otherwise, your analysis is quite sound and logical, given the facts.
Agreed. Pretty much any A5-based device, and that even included the A5X-based third generation iPad has less than stellar performance with the App Store and the iTunes Store apps.
It'd be awesome. But unlikely. Though to see a 5.5" device be called an "iPod" also seems unlikely, hence my hypothetical "prediction" of such a device being an "iPad nano" and not an "iPod touch".
It'd need to have 64GB minimum at this rate. A lot of people clung to the iPod classic because 64GB was too small.
While this may seem like a slight nitpicking issue, I think that, you're right, that may be very telling indeed.
It's true, one of the bigger threats to the iPod touch is the iPad mini as it's similarly priced and substantially more powerful. It does miss out on a lot of the software features that separate the iPhone from the iPad (Passbook, Stocks, Weather, Calculator, Voice Memos, and Health Apps). Not to mention, as is the case with the full-sized iPads (though worse on the mini), running apps that were programed as iPhone apps on the iPad mini is not a great experience. Though it is perfectly doable.
Actually, the iPad Mini sports the same A5 CPU (bar minor clock differences) as the iPod Touch 5G so I wouldn't consider an update as being completely out of the question just yet. The iPod Touch 4g lasted 2 years before being replaced by the iPod Touch 5g so a 6th gen isn't completely out of the question. That said, if there's no 6th gen announced this October, I think it's probably safe to relegate the iPod Touch to the critically endangered list.
Actually, the iPad Mini sports the same A5 CPU (bar minor clock differences) as the iPod Touch 5G so I wouldn't consider an update as being completely out of the question just yet. The iPod Touch 4g lasted 2 years before being replaced by the iPod Touch 5g so a 6th gen isn't completely out of the question. That said, if there's no 6th gen announced this October, I think it's probably safe to relegate the iPod Touch to the critically endangered list.
I was more referring to the iPad mini product line in general. I don't believe that the fifth generation iPod touch is endangered due specifically to the first generation iPad mini as, like you said, same CPU. And let's be real here, the fifth generation iPod touch ran iOS 7 smoother than the first generation iPad mini did (less pixels to push) and I'd imagine the same trend continues with iOS 8.
The iPad mini was updated last year where the iPod touch was not. Again, their price-points are similar enough that the former could easily overtake the latter.
you haven't been to many trade shows i assume, although its not true POS,
at trade shows especially busy ones, they need to get customers in and out and they need to quickly scan products and get them out,
we rolled out with our iPad version first, for some trade shows it works, where they sell high end products, look at their customer history (balances, if they paid on time etc) and sit down with them
others lower end products, where they sell in pre-packs is almost a hectic POS system, they have to get the garment show them and have on device in one hand
the iTouch is perfect for it, our first customer in this industry who are still using iPads had major difficulty using the iPad and scanning products (using a hand held opticon OPN-2005 scanner) its just not reasonable, the iPads were too big.
then theres the cost of these Devices, each booth would want at least 5-10 given how big their booth and company is. Big companies won't mind buying off contract iPhones, but the smaller ones (who go to the same tradeshow) would not, and some owners are just damn right cheap.
they'll probably end up buying Used phones, and we're talking about a pretty good sized market.
i just doubt apple would want all these companies to lean towards buying used iPhones when they can sell new iTouches with 1GB of ram.
theres different situations when using a 'POS' system, an iPad doesnt fit every situation and an iTouch/iPhone doesnt fit every situation as well.
especially if your doing scan and pack as well for a warehouse. much easier to have a hand held device than an iPad with a separate Bluetooth scanner.
and the linea pro devices for iPads are horrible. hard to scan, you have to position the whole iPad, it just didnt work out.
besides the tradeshow, we have on customer that uses a POS system, but they use iPads as more of a Screen for customers for them to browse themselves or to see the screen when they're checking out.
but their employees use the iTouches/iPhone with the linea pro scanner to check inventory and to see where these products are stored in the back.
also on the transition from iTouch and iPhone, it maybe due to the ram issue. i mean we had a heck of a time because of the 512 MB of ram on the touch
Actually, I was referring to the iPod Touch product line in general when I mentioned being endangered. There's precedent for not updating yearly (4g:2010, 5g:2012) so there's still a chance we'll see a newer model (maybe with A7 CPU?) this year. If they don't announce a new iPod Touch during the iPad event though, the 5th gen would most likely be the last of its kind with the line facing possible extinction.
Actually, I was referring to the iPod Touch product line in general when I mentioned being endangered. There's precedent for not updating yearly (4g:2010, 5g:2012) so there's still a chance we'll see a newer model (maybe with A7 CPU?) this year. If they don't announce a new iPod Touch during the iPad event though, the 5th gen would most likely be the last of its kind with the line facing possible extinction.
There is a precedent for it not being updated one year and then the next. There isn't for it not being updated two consecutive years and still running hardware that is three generations behind.
Depends on the color gamut and resolution of the screen. If it's low gamut and remains hard on my eyes, no. If it's something closer to the Air on the inside and better screen, I might consider it.
Ironically, I was one of those folks who used their iPhone like an iPod touch (movies, music etc.) I never bought a touch because it was close in price to the subsidized iPhones and the innards weren't as up to date.
Since I need a larger screen, and do not want to pay through the nose for iPhone I'd very curious about 5.5" touch if it met my needs.
Not sure if it is dead or alive but recent talk by Mr. Cook makes me think maybe one more generation before they stop creating iPods all together.
I primarily was talking about restaurants, cafes, stores, etc. I have been to many trade shows and they were almost all booths. I think a stationary device (iPad) works well in those situations. Not much mobility in booths. Does it represent ALL POS systems? No. Not at all. Like I said, for POS systems used in businesses like the aforementioned, iPads work really well. There are places where a handheld device works well (I frequent a restaurant that uses handhelds) but I think iPads are more popular overall. iPod touches today are way too old (this is part of the problem). iPads are continuously updated (sometimes too fast like iPad 3 to iPad 4) and have larger screens. There's also more companies making hardware accessories (like Square's register/stand) for iPad over iPod touch or iPhone.
Scanning in a warehouse is not a POS. POS stands for Point Of Sale. At the warehouse, the sale has either been done already (think Amazon and their ship warehouses) or will be done in the future at a brick and mortar store. I agree that in this situation, handhelds are much more widely used over something large like a tablet.
BUT (and its a pretty big but) the iPod touch is always at least one to two generations behind in the CPU and RAM. iPod Touches wont last as long as an iPhone. The iPhone 5 and iPT 5g were both released in 2012. The iPT 5g is on its last update (iOS 8), while the iP5 will make it to iOS 9. IMO, iPhones are a good long-term choice
But dont get me wrong, I LOVE the iPod Touch, and I will buy a 5.5 inch model, if the make one, to go along with my iPhone 5s
I was poiting at music. You can have same spects which ipod touch has, on other apple devices but it won't be same. People are allready having hard time on spending a day without charging their iphones, I don't think they would drain battery even more with listening music. ipad mini is really oversized for carry around and taking it out of pocket for changing track. So if you really like to listen music. Ipod touch is perfect mini device with so much more abilty. after all millions of tracks and albums on itunes,and other investions on music by apple it doesn't make sense to let a mp3 player fade away.
That's kinda what I said. It's just 2014 so we're still within the 2-year mark. Besides, the iPod Touch has often been announced/released later than the iPhones anyway. If the iPod touch doesn't get updated this year, I wouldn't count on Apple releasing a new iPod Touch ever.
As for hardware being 2 generations behind, Apple always gimps iPod Touch internals. Most often, it's half the RAM. With the 5g, the A5 CPU was good enough they managed to get away with using that. Besides, they wouldn't want the 5g Touch to have better internals than the iPad mini.
That's kinda what I said. It's just 2014 so we're still within the 2-year mark. Besides, the iPod Touch has often been announced/released later than the iPhones anyway. If the iPod touch doesn't get updated this year, I wouldn't count on Apple releasing a new iPod Touch ever.
As for hardware being 2 generations behind, Apple always gimps iPod Touch internals. Most often, it's half the RAM. With the 5g, the A5 CPU was good enough they managed to get away with using that. Besides, they wouldn't want the 5g Touch to have better internals than the iPad mini.
Or... they could pull a "Mac Pro" and wait FOREVER and then release something mind blowing.
Honestly at this point, everyone (not literally) has a smartphone. Why bother buying a second device?
trade shows are either all booths, or showrooms, showrooms (tradeshow showrooms, not the ones in major cities like downtown LA or NYC) are much more bigger.
the stationary works like i said in higher with companies that sell higher end products with less volume.
they have time to sit down with the customer, but even these companies get busy.
I'm curious how did you see them take orders? did each customer have their own iPad to take orders from?
because the problem when it gets busy is that they have the iPad on one hand and they have to use the scanner and grab the handtag with the other
it gets tedious and difficult, I'm thinking maybe the customer should hold the iPad and see the orders get in.
otherwise maybe a handheld device works in this situation (iPod/iphone)
as for the other industry i mentioned, the companies that sell in high volume with lower end products, theres no question that the iPod with a linea pro is a must. there is no time to sit down with the customer, its just i want this, this and go.
but as for the other retail store i was talking about, they need to scan a barcode to see where its at, maybe on a shelf or in the back, and after they just charge them right there with the lineapro scanner.
other wise with an iPad, they're going to need a square (which takes some money, a little but some dont want to give them money at all) and a bluetooth scanner.
theres a use for both for sure, I'm just trying to reinforce the iPod stance because from my experience there is a need for it.
oh i wasn't trying to say the scan and pack was a POS system, just explaining another situation where the iPod/LineaPro device comes in handy.
but its pretty cool, we get to handle iOS devices for work! i always get to work with the newest devices!
couple of our customers are waiting for the iPad Pro to display as the stationary iPads in the showrooms rather than the regular sized ones.
but technically through the mac rumors buyer guide, they already did update the Touch when they added the camera to the 16GB version.
The trade shows I have been to are just booths with not that much product inventory. I guess we go to different types of trade shows. I don't see a lot of mobility. Just a line at the booth, a table with inventory and another table for paying. I don't see how handhelds make sense in that situation. Think of a mini retail store.
In fairness, the Mac Pro costs, what, $3K? The iPod lines has the lowest profit margins for Apple so there's not as much incentive to keep them. Before, it was a good, inexpensive starter device to entice folks into the iOS ecosystem. Nowadays, there are like 40+ million iPhones sold a year and far, far fewer iPod Touches. Then you've got competition from the likes of the Nexus 5, Moto X and Moto G (all available SIM free). Use-cases for the Touch have become decidedly niche.Or... they could pull a "Mac Pro" and wait FOREVER and then release something mind blowing.
In fairness, the Mac Pro costs, what, $3K? The iPod lines has the lowest profit margins for Apple so there's not as much incentive to keep them. Before, it was a good, inexpensive starter device to entice folks into the iOS ecosystem. Nowadays, there are like 40+ million iPhones sold a year and far, far fewer iPod Touches. Then you've got competition from the likes of the Nexus 5, Moto X and Moto G (all available SIM free). Use-cases for the Touch have become decidedly niche.
Yup. I would know since I bought the new one. Biggest hole in my wallet ever in my not-so-long life.
I remember when I first bought my iPod touch. It was a refurbished 1st generation. Then I bought the 2nd generation and sold the first. And did the same thing for the 3rd generation. Then I got my iPhone and everything changed.
In fairness, the Mac Pro costs, what, $3K? The iPod lines has the lowest profit margins for Apple so there's not as much incentive to keep them. Before, it was a good, inexpensive starter device to entice folks into the iOS ecosystem. Nowadays, there are like 40+ million iPhones sold a year and far, far fewer iPod Touches. Then you've got competition from the likes of the Nexus 5, Moto X and Moto G (all available SIM free). Use-cases for the Touch have become decidedly niche.
Not all countries have nice operator contrats and they still need a inexpensive iOS access.
And not all people want contracts. Is so difficult to understand???
And finally, Apps have more profit than iDevices. So, give a retirement to iPod Touch is not clever.
i see, well we sell mostly to fashion companies and manufacturers. what industry trade shows do you mostly go to?
they want to feel the garment, try it on, and look at past sales history and sit down look at it for the high end, for the low end, they look at it and buy in pre-packs. So essentially, theres two types of trade shows i attend to High end products like which is similar to your type of trade shows, and lower end products which is like a retail store on black friday.
the problem is with the ordering a style is entering it in, or just even selecting it. the sales reps dont want to look for it by typing or searching. At times it makes the paper and pen easier, which some of them just eventually do. which is why we needed barcode scanners
but its usually the older sales reps, the guys around my age (25) and younger have no problem using it.
how old are your sales reps and do they mind just taking their time and selecting from a collections/grid view and or searching for it by entering the product number?
i keep thinking about how i can optimize order taking, but maybe its just the older sales reps thats the problem.
haha, my fault if I'm asking too many questions, just trying to see how other industries do it, because eventually we want to expand to more than just the garment industry.
And again, niche.
Not all people can afford an iPhone to be sure. However, how many people must absolutely have an iPod Touch versus, say, a Moto G ($150-200 without sevice contract) or an iPad Mini? I have a Moto G which I use wifi-only as basically an Android version of the iPod Touch and it works pretty great. Bonus, I can transfer or get a SIM card for it in case my primary phone breaks or gets lost.
Apparently, my quote for 40 million iPhones sold a year was incorrect. That was just one quarter. From their latest annual SEC filing, Apple sold 72 million iPhones in 2011, 125M in 2012 and 150M in 2013. Meanwhile, they sold 42.6M iPods (not just Touch but across all lines) in 2011, 35.2M in 2012 and 26.4M in 2013. iPads, they sold 32.4M in 2011, 58.3M in 2012 and 71M in 2013. iPods are a rapidly declining market. While I'm sure other companies would be thrilled to have 26.4 million in sales and $4.4 billion in revenue that the iPod line generates, Apple just has higher expectations.
Would I like to have an update to a 4.7" or 5.5" iPod touch? Yes actually. With Continuity, I'm sure I'll find more uses for the Touch. I've been holding off on purchasing a 5g iPt hoping we'll get an update during the iPad event this month. That said, I have to be realistic.
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I've seen barcode scanner cases for the iPad mini (at Verizon). Case had a handstrap which makes it easy to carry around and use.
Unfortunately if it isn't dead it's on critical life support.
I love having one for my son, and bought one for my daughter for when she starts showing interest too (she's 1 and he's 3 almost 4).
Sadly, if I had to bet, I'd say dead, and I base that on 3 things:
1) Sales vs. R&D & Production Costs
2) Almost complete lack of leaks
and
3) The iPad Mini
I also think that product placement on the website is telling. It's pretty clear to me they have relegated the touch to classic status, and that while it may stick around (and see some price drops) at some point it will just be gone.
I'm considering upgrading my son to my old 5S, so he'd at least have GPS, but it's not what I'd prefer. I'd much rather have a 5.5" touch (and would pay $399+ for one), but I doubt it's gonna happen.
I love having one for my son, and bought one for my daughter for when she starts showing interest too (she's 1 and he's 3 almost 4).
Sadly, if I had to bet, I'd say dead, and I base that on 3 things:
1) Sales vs. R&D & Production Costs
2) Almost complete lack of leaks
and
3) The iPad Mini
I also think that product placement on the website is telling. It's pretty clear to me they have relegated the touch to classic status, and that while it may stick around (and see some price drops) at some point it will just be gone.
I'm considering upgrading my son to my old 5S, so he'd at least have GPS, but it's not what I'd prefer. I'd much rather have a 5.5" touch (and would pay $399+ for one), but I doubt it's gonna happen.