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Varmann

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jan 3, 2010
150
66
Well, it depends where you compare it.
cMP (2006-2012) was far more expandable and affordable.
All ports and slots were standard. No proprietary gimmicks with cards and storage.
I had a MP 2008 for 12 years, so I know that very well.
Few MacPro "equivalents" through the decades have been that affordable. It only had four expansion slots though, and was limited to 32 GB memory. Apple used Nvidia cards back then, but when using non-apple cards you either had to give up boot screen or get a flashed one, so the there was a proprietary side. Still, I would say 7.1 is more expandable, RAM, 8 slots and Thunderbolt expansions goes a long a way.

What I missed most from those days in -08 is OSX. Back then it was probably the most flexible and open system OS around. I triple booted into OSX, Windows and Linux. I had VMs with Solaris, Haiku, System 7.5, Win XP, Win 95, Win 3.11 and BOB, just for fun. I fiddled with a ZFS volume. Apple put a lot of effort into making OSX a high end OS. I had several friends at the IT department of the nearby university that used OSX as a user-friendly Unix client.
 

toke lahti

macrumors 68040
Apr 23, 2007
3,285
509
Helsinki, Finland
I had a MP 2008 for 12 years, so I know that very well.
Few MacPro "equivalents" through the decades have been that affordable. It only had four expansion slots though, and was limited to 32 GB memory. Apple used Nvidia cards back then, but when using non-apple cards you either had to give up boot screen or get a flashed one, so the there was a proprietary side. Still, I would say 7.1 is more expandable, RAM, 8 slots and Thunderbolt expansions goes a long a way.

What I missed most from those days in -08 is OSX. Back then it was probably the most flexible and open system OS around. I triple booted into OSX, Windows and Linux. I had VMs with Solaris, Haiku, System 7.5, Win XP, Win 95, Win 3.11 and BOB, just for fun. I fiddled with a ZFS volume. Apple put a lot of effort into making OSX a high end OS. I had several friends at the IT department of the nearby university that used OSX as a user-friendly Unix client.
MacOS is so closed now. Is even APFS specs closed (=secret)?
No man pages of commands, no open source code for anything... Once it really was like unix, now it's just a modern closed layer in top of old open unix.
Btw, what openBSD lies under the macos11?
 

yurc

macrumors 6502a
Aug 12, 2016
834
1,011
inside your DSDT
Apple can back to their old idea "modular" components, but probably more proprietary, this time.

MPX is considered proprietary, but that's just modified longer PCIe slots, which is still fine for standard PCIe cards fit in. But Apple plan for smaller box, and I am worried Apple would reinvent their own expansion slots and peripheral, which means most of modular components upgrades only available from Apple, but sans from third party.

Not mentioning price. If they can back to old range $3000 start price like earlier 2006~2012 Mac Pro, that's sweet. But under Timmy that's unlikely happened.

Once it really was like unix, now it's just a modern closed layer in top of old open unix.


Another horror with future MacOS direction : Super closed like iOS counterparts, explicitly running package only from App Store, feels like solid security but well built wall garden. Even I don't know current SIP control status on Apple based silicon machine.

I am recently acquired 16 core 2019 MP, but maybe in future when Apple completing transition and no longer supported Intel machine, that's all Intel Macs out there either turn into standard Windows workstation box or stuck with latest supported MacOS.
 

yurc

macrumors 6502a
Aug 12, 2016
834
1,011
inside your DSDT
I had a MP 2008 for 12 years, so I know that very well.
Few MacPro "equivalents" through the decades have been that affordable. It only had four expansion slots though, and was limited to 32 GB memor

The 2009~2012 still rocking, but yeah we admit need some additional effort, but with very minimum hacks it still can running latest Big Sur.

For old machine 128 GB memory is impressive, even some folks manage further into 256GB without issues.
TB3 via add in cards is also works.

The funny things recently compared, 2013 supported cylinder Mac Pro are have stuttering UI under Big Sur. Apps was running fine, but handling UI animation under metal on Big Sur seems completely taxing on D300/500/700 GPU. That's was completely fine on 2012 Mac Pro with supported Metal GPU (tested under RX580).

That's proof industry standard components can be savior when machine is near their life cycle. Apple silicon architecture are complete antithesis with current box Mac 5,1/7,1 standpoint.
 

IA64

macrumors 6502a
Nov 8, 2013
552
66
Another horror with future MacOS direction : Super closed like iOS counterparts, explicitly running package only from App Store, feels like solid security but well built wall garden. Even I don't know current SIP control status on Apple based silicon machine.

I am recently acquired 16 core 2019 MP, but maybe in future when Apple completing transition and no longer supported Intel machine, that's all Intel Macs out there either turn into standard Windows workstation box or stuck with latest supported MacOS.

IMO Apple knows that it can't compete with Microsoft that has over 80% of the market share regardless of how cool and stylish their products are. Apple computers are no longer the best solution for graphics and video editors. Windows 10 is more mature than ever and let's be honest, the absolute majority of the apps run better on Windows than on mac OS.

So they are now shifting everything towards a unified ecosystem where your future mac computer will be an oversized iPhone where developers will focus only on one cpu architecture. Even Big Sur looks like an iOs. Very clever move and this is the where they have the upper hand.

The transition from X86 to ARM is long bumpy road and I do not expect Apple to release anything close to the Mac Pro 7,1 in the next 3 years.

As you said, they're leaning towards a complete closed system where upgrades or MPX cards can be purchased only from Apple. Just like your built-in SSD...

To make it short, it's going to save them a lot of money, generate more income and less headache with app development.

But, the real question is, would an ARM processor be enough for your needs in the next few years? Would you give up on Windows / Bootcamp? Even Microsoft is having nightmares with X64 emulations under ARM.
 

yurc

macrumors 6502a
Aug 12, 2016
834
1,011
inside your DSDT
If people are looking at the M1 and thinking it is going to result in a weak Mac Pro.... lol.

Nope, we don't think is going to weak.
M1 alone is half of multicore of 16 core Xeon W, double the M1 is indeed would destroy any current Intel workstation chips. Single core speed on M1 make shame any current any desktop chips offering.

The concern being discussed here mostly is how 8,1 direction in future. Current 7,1 is behave like semi-traditional workstation box, just with extra proprietary parts. M1 equipment Mac Pro or whatever it called must be beast, but it seems no longer have same expandable tower nature.

Windows 10 is more mature than ever and let's be honest, the absolute majority of the apps run better on Windows than on mac OS.


I had dedicated Windows box with Quadro cards to run Solidworks. and I quite agree. The merit of Windows 10 workstation is their major update release. MacOS what? Annual release broken some of my workflow, each OS updates introduce unwanted surprise with my gears. My Wacom Cintiq Pro is absolutely more stable on Windows when on MacOS it had some laggy input at some occasions.

I am never Bootcamp and prefer dedicated tower for Windows (yes I had several active tower running under my desk). Because my 7,1 is quite new, probably I am no getting any newer Mac including M1, but I keep an eye for their advancement.

Another reason I had still multiple x86 tower because, I spend a lot of my gears like tangent panel, Wacom screen/tablet, audio interface etc. Some of still using FireWire but still works great, plus with Apple history hating backwards compatibility on ancient hardware, and not all manufacturer of those pro tools care enough to writing ARM based driver.
 

Varmann

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jan 3, 2010
150
66
The 2009~2012 still rocking, but yeah we admit need some additional effort, but with very minimum hacks it still can running latest Big Sur.
Those are certainly the most impressive "MacPro equivalents" Apple have made, the lifetime is astounding. They manage to adapt to every hurdle Apple put up to retire them.

Even starting out with loads of RAM and 8 slots, I do not expect 7.1 to have such a long and glorious life.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,412
3,961
... and now the solution seems to be "no dgpu".

Not really. Most Macs don't have dGPU now. In terms of unit sales, that is definitely so. Apple mentioned during the introduction that MBA and MBP 13" two port were their two best selling Macs. The four port MBP 13" doesn't. The Mini doesn't.

What Apple is covering at the moment with no dGPU solutions is majority ( if not vast majority) of the systems they sell. It would wrong for Apple to concentrate first on the area where they sell the least.

The other tipping point is whether the low-mid entry dGPU were goin to retain their spot in 2021-22. That isn't looking so good. Not only with Macs M1 SoC but with Xe-LP and upcoming RDNA 2 APUs from AMD next year. Nvidia bumped their MX350 into a MX450 as a defensive move, but both AMD and Nvidia aren't putting much effort at all at entry desktop dGPUs.

If these kind of results hold up for the M1 in more robust and repeatable bencharks
"... A new GFXBench 5.0 submission for the M1 exhibits its dominance over oldies, such as the GeForce GTX 1050 Ti and Radeon RX 560. .."



So a 2x GPU cores of M1 in a beefier iGPU (with lots more cache and better memory channel bandwidth) probably would put Apple in the ballpark to covering the dGPU usage in the MBP 16" and iMac 21". ( 5500M , 5600M , Pro 555X , Pro 560X ). [ may come up short against the Vega 20 4GB HBM top BTO of the current iMac. ] . That would be a new set of dGPU pruned off from the Mac line up.

Is that close to covering the recent RTX 3080 or Radeon RX 6800 XT ? Nope. Still 4-6x behind.

But does get to the point that need yet another SoC to cover that higher territory. If that third follow on isn't coming until 2nd half 2021 there would have been little need to talk about it in WWDC 2020. Apple could talk about it at the WWDC 2021. I think thing aren't going to be clear where Apple is going on desktops until they get ready to replace the 27" model. And since Apple speed bumped the Intel 27" later this year , then probably not getting to a replaced one until later next year.

Apple was primarily after getting rid of their largest GPU vendor they dealt with first. And that is Intel.



How many years did it take apple to support dp1.2? Still in 2020 you had to buy a mac without dp1.4. Do these m1-macs support dp1.4? Or even 2.0? Does apple even tell these things?

The on the new M1 systems say they support just one DisplayPort data stream dispaly ( through the Thunderbolt port). It also says supports 6K screens. Single stream and 6K support is highly suggestive that this is DPv1.4 ( worse case DPv1.3 but probably v1.4).

Nobody is really doing DPv2 right now but putting a TB controller in the same die as the GPU cores is start to getting that done. ( since need infrastructure to implement the Thunderbolt protocol. )

When Apple gets to 3nm ( two more years), then that is when I suspect will see DPv2 . Looks like the other GPU vendors aren't going to get there that much sooner. AMD's and Nvidia's basically "brand new" designs don't support it either so both of those will be next generation implementations also. ( so at least another year or more).
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,412
3,961
Apple can back to their old idea "modular" components, but probably more proprietary, this time.

MPX is considered proprietary, but that's just modified longer PCIe slots, which is still fine for standard PCIe cards fit in. But Apple plan for smaller box, and I am worried Apple would reinvent their own expansion slots and peripheral, which means most of modular components upgrades only available from Apple, but sans from third party. or

Why would Apple reinvent MPX? There isn't a "longer" PCI-e slot. There is a second connector that mainstream PCI-e cards can just ignore. So if Apple wants to "update" MPX bays to PCI-e v4 there is not much coupled there for them to get entangled in. The x16 slots (or x8 and x16 ) slots would get the increment and the rest would stay the same.

The MPX connector provides power ... whiich isn't gong to change much. two x4 PCI-e v3 connections .. again doesn't have to change much. two DPv1.4 data stream lanes ... again doesn't need to change much.

IF the Mac Pro gets smaller then one of the MPX bays would probably get chucked , but the one left would likely largely be almost exactly the same. If Apple doesn't implement PCI-e v4 provisioned lanes it would be almost exactly the same.


Not mentioning price. If they can back to old range $3000 start price like earlier 2006~2012 Mac Pro, that's sweet. But under Timmy that's unlikely happened.

If you get less, you'll probably pay less. They chopped ports off this initial M1 Mini configuration and the price when down.

For the full sized , 8 slot one ? No the price probably won't change much at all.


....
I am recently acquired 16 core 2019 MP, but maybe in future when Apple completing transition and no longer supported Intel machine, that's all Intel Macs out there either turn into standard Windows workstation box or stuck with latest supported MacOS.

The large gap on I/O (e..g, only doing one external display if have to also cover the touchbar + lid screen ) is suggestive that this transition isn't going to be short. Pretty decent chance the full sized won't be replaced until reasonably far into 2022. Even if they do a "half sized" one in very later 2021 the Intel one would still be around for a while.

As long as Apple doesn't discontinue it the macOS update support will keep getting extended . ( up to a limit that would probably coincide with them ending sales. ).
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,412
3,961
Yes, I really hope so. The "dead end" is a worst case scenario, but I am prepared for that.
Since the 7.1 is such a promising new start I hope is that Apple not only builds a halfsized version but also the full one. It certainly deserves that.

I strongly suspect , the issue of it being a "dead end" or not is more so in the hands of the customers than Apple. I think it is a "hobby" product that Apple is mostly happy to do as long as folks throw big buckets of money at them to do it. But it is a "hobby", so they are only going to do it on a relatively slow update cycle.

IHMO, I would not expect a replacement before the late Fall 2022 Something in 2023-24 perhaps if there is enough demand to cover after some folks "move down" to the "Half" model and the rest of the Mac line up. ( and that june-Dec 2022 timeframe yet another 'dog ate my homework" session on how 2022 will end before new full size model appears but they are "working hard, but jut not this year..." . And that the "half" Mac Pro did complete the transition with 'something' in the product name category. so not "overdue". ). Refreshed in '23-24 , Apple will go back into Rip van Winkle mode again for another 4-5 years. New MPX GPU modules would come out on a more regular rate ( 1-1.5 years ) to fill in for activity during the gaps. ( and if backport the new GPUs' drivers to x86-64 in the 2020-2024 timeframe that will keep a large swath of the 7,1 users happy for several years into the future).
 

edanuff

macrumors 6502a
Oct 30, 2008
578
258
What we just don’t know yet is what the non-Apple GPU strategy is. The Apple Silicon strategy has been as much about the Apple GPU as it has been about the move to ARM, full stop. Apple’s display strategy across both iDevices and Macs is about supporting 4K+ displays in even the most entry level price points whereas in the PC world, this is a premium capability, which is why LG hasn’t even bothered making their 5K monitor work well with anything but Macs. That’s mainly what Apple is solving for with their GPUs. The real question is whether the high end iMacs and large MBPs can be powered by Apple GPUs. If they can, we get into an odd man out problem at the desktop Pro level once more with the tension around sustained investment in supporting a non-Apple GPU for a single product. That why it seems like the best course will be to just keep the existing 7,1 going for the foreseeable future so they don’t have to deal with any of these issues. The Half Mac Pro is going to stump everyone until it’s released. If the goal is to be the escape valve for the AS transition, it could actually be another Intel box, regardless of what the Bloomberg article said. Such a box would be trivial to make and require no additional software investment than what they’re already committed to. If the goal is to just provide an Apple Silicon Pro to say they did it as well as to sell a bunch to companies that don’t do AIO desktops (my previous employer had thousands of 2013 Pros), it could totally be a limited expandable AS Pro in a similar vein to the 2013 Pro that just externally looks like the 7,1 for industrial design continuity. Or it could be the scenarios that are being discussed here with a super M chip and MPX slots and non-Apple GPUs but it’s a daunting amount of work to recapitulate the PC architecture in AS for a single Mac model, with little to none of that work being reused anywhere else in the product line. I think that some form of that will eventually happen but pushed out as far as possible.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,412
3,961
What we just don’t know yet is what the non-Apple GPU strategy is. The Apple Silicon strategy has been as much about the Apple GPU as it has been about the move to ARM, full stop.

It isn't that Apple's strategy is unknown. It more Apple's disclosures of the strategy are incomplete.

It is pretty crystal clear that Apple is out to 'kill' OpenGL and OpenCL. They are pragmatically about just as hostiles to Vulkan. It is Metal or the "highway out of town". There are no "plans" for macOS 11.0 (perhaps through all of the 10.0.x updates ) for non Apple GPUs. (e.g, the slide at WWDC 2020).

They are biased to their own GPU. Apple GPU will come first in terms of macOS support. It is more a question of just how exclusionary they are going to be and for how long.




Apple’s display strategy across both iDevices and Macs is about supporting 4K+ displays in even the most entry level price points whereas in the PC world, this is a premium capability, which is why LG hasn’t even bothered making their 5K monitor work well with anything but Macs.

The Ultrafine LG monitors aren't most of LG's line up. A monitor with no buttons and one-and-only-one input just won't sell well with non Apple fans in the monitor market.

LG's other Thunderbolt monitors aren't limited like that at all. Ultrafines have Apple doing some serious, overt "back seat driving". It is build at the request of Apple , not the general market.




That’s mainly what Apple is solving for with their GPUs. The real question is whether the high end iMacs and large MBPs can be powered by Apple GPUs. If they can, we get into an odd man out problem at the desktop Pro level once more with the tension around sustained investment in supporting a non-Apple GPU for a single product.

Actually this is about the lower end iMacs too. Apple has somewhat kneecapped them in terms of GPUs. If Apple has access to a lower main system SoC ( CPU+iGPU) they could expand the performance of the 21-24" iMac's GPU inside the same overall thermal envelope.

To a lessor extent the same with the Mini.

So it is what they want to do with the whole desktop line in terms of GPUs. Apple extending the iGPU of the M1 to cover the lowest end dGPUs they use. Yeah if they are shooting for largely no substantive improvement in performance. But is that really going to be competitive to the overall market in the basic iMac's price range. ?

Laptops? Yes. The goal is probably to remove all of the dGPUs. That is a clear path to battery life.


That why it seems like the best course will be to just keep the existing 7,1 going for the foreseeable future so they don’t have to deal with any of these issues. The Half Mac Pro is going to stump everyone until it’s released. If the goal is to be the escape valve for the AS transition, it could actually be another Intel box, regardless of what the Bloomberg article said.

Technically the Bloomberg article doesn't explicitly say anything other than shrinking the size. Possible cause was switching to lower power Apple SoC would "help". But GPUs were a driver of Mac Pro size also.

If the Half Mac Pro doesn't come in 1H 2021 it is quite doubtful that it will be Intel though. There could have been some delayed Intel CPU that slid out of a 2020 timeline roadmap into 2021. That wouldn't be shocking. But when Apple does the top end iMac SoC , there probably isn't a huge gap between that and the "half" Mac Pro. When the iMac 27" class system shows up and there is/isn't dGPU support that will be quite informative as to where the "half Mac Pro" is.

I highly doubt Apple is doing Apple Silicon "escape values". There are probably Intel systems that "should have been 2020 " that slid out of 2020. For example, a gen 11 H series ( Tiger Lake H) MBP 16" that stumbled into the first couple of months of 2021. Perhaps a "kick the can down the road" "half Mac Pro" instead of a "kick the can down the road " iMac Pro.



If it is just the Mac Pro out by its lonesome with dGPUs then yeah that will be a major "problem" .
 

toke lahti

macrumors 68040
Apr 23, 2007
3,285
509
Helsinki, Finland
The on the new M1 systems say they support just one DisplayPort data stream dispaly ( through the Thunderbolt port). It also says supports 6K screens. Single stream and 6K support is highly suggestive that this is DPv1.4 ( worse case DPv1.3 but probably v1.4).
Why would it be single stream?
My mini2018 handles (badly) my LG's 5k2k with 2 streams.

You can't blame Intel on that Apple can't stick some cheap dGPU in an affordable headless desktop mac.
Apple does not do that to sell more imacs.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,412
3,961
Why would it be single stream?
My mini2018 handles (badly) my LG's 5k2k with 2 streams.

Because basline it is an iPad Pro GPU design. How may displays are folks going to attach to an iPad Pro? The overall die is also size constrained to about 120mm and Apple has packed in lots more stuff than just an iGPU into the into the die. ( more displace output processing sreams requires more die space and transistors. )

And Apple only cares about their own 6K display for "bragging rights". Apple is targeting the future, not the past (as they often do). The "two stream" path to a single display is to get around v1.2 reolution limitations. It won't be surprising to see refreshed 5K displays pop up that can skip the two streams to do 5K also. Single stream will work just fine on future high res monitors.

The Intel iGPU in the Mini 2018 is actually more targeted at laptops and entry desktops . For the latter, a couple with 1080/1440 kind of multiple screens.


You can't blame Intel on that Apple can't stick some cheap dGPU in an affordable headless desktop mac.
Apple does not do that to sell more imacs.

In the Mini 2018 ? Intel is soaking up vast majority of TDP so yeah they are a major contributor to why there is no dGPU there. Why no dGPU in the M1 Mini ... it is highlly doubtful there are any substantive PCI-e v3 lanes to hook one up. This Mini is also missing 10GbE option ( also likely due to no bandwidth to SoC available ).

P.S. these are likley not the "last" Apple Silicon powered Mini or MBP 13-14" models this year. The "single stream" will also likely turn into market segmentation later in the year for models that have 4 TB ports and do more external displays. ( all with a substantively bigger SoC die. with "more stuff" that won't be going into any iPad or other non Mac product. )
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,412
3,961
First rule of thermodynamics...early adopters ALWAYS get screwed.

But this really isn't an early adopter. The M1 isn't even targeted at the Mac Pro product category.
It is pretty akin to pointing at the latest Apple watch SoC and saying it isn't up to snuff to the Mac Pro.
That that the M1 has some minor overlap with the entry Mac models doesn't obviate that it isn't even trying to cover the other categories. Apples to Oranges. Or like trying to use Thermodynamics on a Biology problem.
 

tanoanian

macrumors member
Dec 4, 2016
88
160
But this really isn't an early adopter. The M1 isn't even targeted at the Mac Pro product category.
It is pretty akin to pointing at the latest Apple watch SoC and saying it isn't up to snuff to the Mac Pro.
That that the M1 has some minor overlap with the entry Mac models doesn't obviate that it isn't even trying to cover the other categories. Apples to Oranges. Or like trying to use Thermodynamics on a Biology problem.
Time will tell. What will the M2 bring to all the M1 owners?
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,412
3,961
Time will tell. What will the M2 bring to all the M1 owners?

probably not much of anything since the M1 is soldered to the logic board. That state is probably going to be true too in any Mac Pro solution that comes with Apple silicon . If trying to appeal to the notion of socket processor upgrades , then those are probably gone .
 

IA64

macrumors 6502a
Nov 8, 2013
552
66
Out of topic, but is it possible to emulate ARM apps on Big Sur with Mac Pro 7,1?
 

LeonPro

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2002
931
510
Out of topic, but is it possible to emulate ARM apps on Big Sur with Mac Pro 7,1?

I may have incorrectly understood, but isn't Big Sur already emulating iOS apps and the reason why you can now carry over what you purchased from your iPhone/iPads to your computer (as long as the developer has made it available)?

If that's true, shouldn't that be the case for other ARM-coded apps?

Someone feel free to correct.
 

IA64

macrumors 6502a
Nov 8, 2013
552
66
I may have incorrectly understood, but isn't Big Sur already emulating iOS apps and the reason why you can now carry over what you purchased from your iPhone/iPads to your computer (as long as the developer has made it available)?

If that's true, shouldn't that be the case for other ARM-coded apps?

Someone feel free to correct.

From what I undestand Rosetta is emulating X86/64 so they can work on ARM processors. I'm not sure about the opposite.
 

LeonPro

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2002
931
510
"Will applications written for ARM-based Apple Silicon Macs run on Intel-based Macs?

Yes, in many cases, even natively if recompiled as a "Univeral 2" binary.

However, going forward, there are unlikely to really be "Mac apps" in the traditional sense. Because iOS apps also run on ARM-based Apple Silicon Macs, and the iOS has so many more apps and a much larger user base, the iOS inevitably will be the primary developer focus. These iOS apps can be tweaked to support Intel-based Macs, too.

Apple software developer documentation explains:

Although you can run your iOS apps unmodified on Apple silicon, Mac Catalyst lets you build your app specifically for macOS and customize your app's behavior on that platform. Mac Catalyst also supports deployment on both Apple silicon and Intel-based Mac computers.
Effectively, ARM-based Apple Silicon Macs can run just about all modern iOS apps written for the iPhone and iPad unless the developer opts-out. Intel-based Macs running macOS Big Sur (macOS 11) -- or macOS Catalina (10.15) in many cases -- likewise can run these iOS apps if the developer chooses to use Mac Catalyst."

https://everymac.com/mac-answers/ap...con-arm-apps-support-on-intel-macs-macos.html
 
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