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Is anyone else as torn as me (about keeping or returning)
- Thread starter Coukos34
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Not that I 100% believe her but I just spoke to the Sr. Advisor assigned to my case number at Apple Support and she reassured me several times that it is a software issue with the phone not switching frequencies correctly when the phone is held in that spot. She said the engineers are working on it and they will be releasing a software fix. Of course she would not attach a time-frame to it and I don't blame her. I did ask her if I were to return it within the 14 day window due to this issue that I would not be expecting a re-stocking fee and she said that I should not have to. Of course take it for what its worth and don't forget your grain of salt.
I am not sure you interpreted the test results correctly. The attenuation problem is real as are dropped calls and data connection. The only remedy is the use of a case. The iPhone 4 approaches the quality of iPhone 3GS
it's very possible
the frequencies can be attenuated but until it's done, the finger of death is terrible.
I've had dropped calls and my Jabra bluetooth was terrible too.
All fixed when I got an AT&T Bodyglove case. Which is amazing and blew my mind that it would not only stop the dropped calls, the disappearing conversations but also the bluetooth problem.
That antenna (the phone itself) needs some attenuating. Hopefully the software can go a long way in doing so. My gut says not entirely.
With two sheets of glass, this phone requires a case. Impact to any side or corner results in breaks. Doesn't matter how strong the glass itself is.
I love the phone and am happy the Bodyglove case just eliminated the problems. It's a keeper.
the frequencies can be attenuated but until it's done, the finger of death is terrible.
I've had dropped calls and my Jabra bluetooth was terrible too.
All fixed when I got an AT&T Bodyglove case. Which is amazing and blew my mind that it would not only stop the dropped calls, the disappearing conversations but also the bluetooth problem.
That antenna (the phone itself) needs some attenuating. Hopefully the software can go a long way in doing so. My gut says not entirely.
With two sheets of glass, this phone requires a case. Impact to any side or corner results in breaks. Doesn't matter how strong the glass itself is.
I love the phone and am happy the Bodyglove case just eliminated the problems. It's a keeper.
Yes, so considering most people use the phone as a phone, you might to consider markedly lower resale value if this issue never gets fixed.
Afterall, you might be first on scene at an accident and how pathetic and hopeless would you feel if you had your call dropped if dialing 911?
Spectacular. That is the bug I was just talking about. Now lets put this all in perspective. If bar display were a linear scale instead of the out of wack logarithmic scale that it currently is, it would eliminate the wildly exaggerated signal drop.
On a linear scale, signals in the upper mid bar rang would move down slightly and signals in the lower bar range would move up slightly. Then when you touch the spot, it attenuates approx 20db - 24db... That is only a 1.5 to 2 bar drop, NOT the skewed 5 to 1 drop we are seeing. And with the switching bug fixed, those stalled switch attempt dropped calls wouldn't be happening. It would be finding a different tower or dropping to EDGE just like it should. So this whole freaking fiasco happened over what is, in reality, only a 2 bar drop from wherever your signal is at when you touch the spot. THAT is what Apple's official response is based off of, and in that context it makes much more sense.
EDIT: Software bugs! This whole damn thing was caused by 2 software bugs. Touching the spot will degrade your connection, but would almost never have caused a dropped call or data stall without those 2 bugs.
Thanks for (most of) the replies. My problem is that I don't want another phone. I am an iphone user. I don't want an android phone, and especially don't want a Pre (WTF??). I want this one. If I end up returning it, I'll have to go back to my 3G and just wait it out and see how this whole thing pans out. Maybe see if verizon really does finally get the iPhone (although I really have no complaints about AT&T).
Overall I'm just dissapointed in Apple. It seams as though they have changed a bit as a company in the last few years. It's too bad, I think they have gotten too big for themselves. I always thought that if there was a problem, I wouldn't have to worry, they would do the right thing and take care of it. Not anymore. First the iPad wifi and now this. I don't have the faith/patience to sit and wait for them to do the right thing. You almost can't blame them, they have a cult like following that will make sacrifices to have their products. Apple is just using this to they're advantage now.
I know we vote with our wallets, I'm just afraid there is too many people willing to deal, rather than return and make apple realize. I feel like there wont be enough for them to care. Arg, just thinking of going back to my old 3G makes me cringe.
Overall I'm just dissapointed in Apple. It seams as though they have changed a bit as a company in the last few years. It's too bad, I think they have gotten too big for themselves. I always thought that if there was a problem, I wouldn't have to worry, they would do the right thing and take care of it. Not anymore. First the iPad wifi and now this. I don't have the faith/patience to sit and wait for them to do the right thing. You almost can't blame them, they have a cult like following that will make sacrifices to have their products. Apple is just using this to they're advantage now.
I know we vote with our wallets, I'm just afraid there is too many people willing to deal, rather than return and make apple realize. I feel like there wont be enough for them to care. Arg, just thinking of going back to my old 3G makes me cringe.
I interpret the data perfectly fine. -113dbm (low) to -51dmb (high) is the full signal strength range. Touching the spot applies a 20 to 24dBd attenuation. The signal is directly affected of course, but the bar bar scale is skewed.
If you are at -51dbm (5 bars) and you touch the spot, the signal is attenuated by 20dm putting your signal strength at -71dbm. That is STILL 5 bars on the currently screwed up bar scale. Now, if your signal was at -91dbm (still in the 5 bar range) and you applied a 20dbm attenuation to that, you end up at -111dmb which is only 1 bar. In both cases, the signal drop was 20dbm from wherever it was at. But in the first example, the display bars didn't budge... it was still five bars. In the second example, same attenuation mind you, the display went from 5 bars all the way down to 1. The scale is way outa wack and it's not given anywhere near a close approximation of what your actual strength is or how much attenuation is being caused by touching the spot.
As was mention a couple times a few messages up, the drop calls were being caused by a second bug. That bug is preventing it from properly switching to a different tower or dropping down to EDGE when the signal gets too low.
It's a perfect storm kinda thing. Display bars are showing an extremely exaggerated drop in signal when touching the spot. And if that drop was low enough, a SECOND bug is triggered stalling the switching code that choses any frequency/tower and it's dropping the call (or halting data transfer) because of that.
EDIT: In otherwords, these are 2 distinct bugs where one of the bugs is giving you false information about what your strength is, and a second bug that's stalling a switch and losing a connection. When a switch is triggered by a signal drop, the inaccurate display and the disconnect APPEAR to be a single phenomenon but they are distinct. It is incredibly unfortunate that these 2 specific bugs where both present because it falsely led to the conclusion that there was a severe issue that renders the phone useless for some because of that spot. In reality, the entire 'touching the spot' event is nothing more than a 20-24dmb , 2 bar drop event, NOT the 5 to 1 to disconnect it looked like.
And this is what bugs me. Look at the iPad. I bring it to work and it connects and disconnects from wifi all day long it's a total pain. Apple says it's router settings. Ok, well then why does my iPhone stay locked in on the connection and never drop. Must be the router settings right? Besides, how do they expect you to fix router settings on routerw you have no access to. Peopledo use thwm outside there house!!
C'mon, it's been 2 months now and still no update. WTF is up with that. Are we now supposed to wait around and hope that apple eventually fixes it? They say there is nothing wrong and to buy a case or hold it differently. What are they gonna say if they fix it in software? It's a fix for an issue that doesn't exist?
I leave my 3G off so no switching towers here and I drop complete service. Us in the weak coverage are killed by this antenna system.
I too am torn as a plastic case does seem to do a good job of preventing the issue. That being said, the way Apple has handled it thus far and not acknowledging the issue has me leaning towards returning it and re-evaluating it later in time after things shake out a bit.
Right, reread what I said. You touch the spot, your signal strength goes down 20db. If your strength was originally above -91 (5 bars) then the bars don't change. If your signal was originally below -91 before it dropped the bar display drops all the way down from 5 to 1 bar. Your getting signal degradation. The bar display is just not accurately showing your strength or how much it is actually dropping.
Not a chance! Works great here in Jersey and I adore my new iP4. No way in heLLL would I even want to return it.
I was torn also but decided to return my 16gb i4 to ATT. I was having significant data problems and dropping calls everyday and BUMPERS did not fix my problems.
To fund this phone I sold my 3Gs and 2G. I had another 2G with a broken digitizer that I thought I could fix. Well that didn't go so well
It's quite amazing how much stuff they pack in these devices and how small everything is. Dis-assembly and re-assembly of the 2G was very challenging and I failed. I was so close...probably the hardest step is re-connecting the 2G mid board to 4 flex cables. very hard to line up all of the micro connectors, well I was lifting the dock connector flex circuit a little too much and rip, project over! Now I am stuck with an Orange and White Sony Ericson W800i.
Also, I paid too much for this i4. I have 2 lines, my wife has a blackberry on one and I've had the iphones on the other. My wife's line is eligible for a full discounted upgrade, my line only partial. I assumed that if I used her upgrade, she would switch to an iphone data plan which would not work with her BB. So I went ahead and paid $399 for the 16gb and upgraded my line.
Well, after speaking with an ATT rep, I learned that the new data plans are generic for all smart phones. So I can use her upgrade to buy the phone and use it on my line. She can continue using her BB. I am switching her to the 200mb plan anyways, she averages 5MB/month, LOL!
Once Apple fixes the reception problem, I will buy a 32GB i4 directly from Apple for $299.
To fund this phone I sold my 3Gs and 2G. I had another 2G with a broken digitizer that I thought I could fix. Well that didn't go so well
It's quite amazing how much stuff they pack in these devices and how small everything is. Dis-assembly and re-assembly of the 2G was very challenging and I failed. I was so close...probably the hardest step is re-connecting the 2G mid board to 4 flex cables. very hard to line up all of the micro connectors, well I was lifting the dock connector flex circuit a little too much and rip, project over! Now I am stuck with an Orange and White Sony Ericson W800i.
Also, I paid too much for this i4. I have 2 lines, my wife has a blackberry on one and I've had the iphones on the other. My wife's line is eligible for a full discounted upgrade, my line only partial. I assumed that if I used her upgrade, she would switch to an iphone data plan which would not work with her BB. So I went ahead and paid $399 for the 16gb and upgraded my line.
Well, after speaking with an ATT rep, I learned that the new data plans are generic for all smart phones. So I can use her upgrade to buy the phone and use it on my line. She can continue using her BB. I am switching her to the 200mb plan anyways, she averages 5MB/month, LOL!
Once Apple fixes the reception problem, I will buy a 32GB i4 directly from Apple for $299.
I will return my phone within the next week if these two problems are not addressed.
a. "grip of death", my phone drops full coverage when I hold it in my left hand. I mean full here folks, this is no "representation of bars" issue. Its comical how much and how fast it changes. I can make the speedtest app rev like my car by taking my hand away. When I leave my hand for over 15 seconds the test doesn't even run. I don't care how it is fixed, but this is a big deal and if its not addressed soon this "phone' is getting the boot.
b. proximity sensor, this thing simply doesn't work during calls. Every call so far I activate some random button when talking. How do they not catch these things? Crazy.
a. "grip of death", my phone drops full coverage when I hold it in my left hand. I mean full here folks, this is no "representation of bars" issue. Its comical how much and how fast it changes. I can make the speedtest app rev like my car by taking my hand away. When I leave my hand for over 15 seconds the test doesn't even run. I don't care how it is fixed, but this is a big deal and if its not addressed soon this "phone' is getting the boot.
b. proximity sensor, this thing simply doesn't work during calls. Every call so far I activate some random button when talking. How do they not catch these things? Crazy.
I am. I keep secretly hoping Apple will say 'software update coming soon' but they insist on their denial and arrogant stance. I could just buy the bumper and suck it up but its the principle plus the fact that i HATE cases.
As it stands its looking like i'll be returning mine but its gonna be hard to find a replacement. The 3GS is dated now even more so after using iP4 for a while now and spending £400 to get it again (sold mine) just seems like a waste whilst i can tolerate Android OS its not something i'm particularly fond of.
So i dunno what to do now...
As it stands its looking like i'll be returning mine but its gonna be hard to find a replacement. The 3GS is dated now even more so after using iP4 for a while now and spending £400 to get it again (sold mine) just seems like a waste whilst i can tolerate Android OS its not something i'm particularly fond of.
So i dunno what to do now...
You're definitely not alone. I think apple is going to get a fair amount of returns in the next week or so if they are still denying the problem. It is really tough but I also don't want to get screwed with a quiet hardware revision that fixes this problem and apple not taking care of the early adopters on this one. My only way to protect myself is to return my iphone 4 in the return window. Also maybe this will send a message to apple that we are not stupid and can see right thru their denial of this issue.
It comes down to this...Either it works for you, or it doesn't.
Virtually every new major consumer product roll-out comes with initial technical glitches...I say give it time, but it's up to you.
Virtually every new major consumer product roll-out comes with initial technical glitches...I say give it time, but it's up to you.
God people. If there is truly a hardware design issue that cannot be fixed via software, Apple will offer to buy back the phones for those who wish to return it beyond the 30 day window. You will probably have a limited time to decide (like say 30 days to register your serial online on a special website) but if there was truly a problem that could not be fix, apple would have stopped selling the phone!
Ugh people freak out too easy.
Ugh people freak out too easy.
I still haven't got mine yet, have to wait till august.
I hope that by then something has been done, if not I will seriously consider not getting it, but I really want the better camera ;_;
I hope that by then something has been done, if not I will seriously consider not getting it, but I really want the better camera ;_;