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macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 11, 2011
Let me start by saying I am not your typical Apple hater. I have been what most have called a "fanboy" for decades. In fact, my first computer in college was a Macintosh SE with a 20Mb hard drive and small black and white screen. Many years later, I have had 5 iPhones, 6 iPod touches and 3 iPads. So far, all have basically been relegated to the scrap heap due mostly to the IOS upgrades. Apple failed to warn me that upgrading would basically render my devices useless. Yes, shame on me for continuing to upgrade, but I always like to push them to the latest cool features, and tend to be an early adopter.

I am happy to stop when it makes sense, but every time, I am too late and can't find a way to retrograde. My last straw was the 8.1 update on my iPad 2. It was working great until I upgraded from 7.x Now, it hardly works- struggling to render pages and acknowledge touches.

I looked at the Apple forums and found that many, many people are experiencing the same thing- even some on more recent iPads. What really ticked me off was Apple's pulling of the 7.x software for downgrading. Even those who had been able to download it complained that most of the apps would no longer work once they moved back to 7.x.

I know it serves Apple's purpose- make the experience so bad, people now need to buy another to continue having the experience they've grown accustomed to- but at the same time, it diminishes trust and has caused me to seriously consider breaking the long-held standard of Apple products in my house. My son who experienced a similar issue on his iPod just placed an order for a Google Nexus because his iPod, though working, is basically useless.

Not sure the best recourse, but wondering if I am alone in this and you see it as only my issue? or is Apple culpable in this and should stop alienating customers by virtually disabling their devices they've come to love?

Would not surprise me to see a class-action on this one at some point...

I'd love your thoughts.


macrumors 68020
Oct 27, 2010
HR 9038 A
Actually yes, and I didn't think I would. I've been getting some really irritating bugs in iOS8 and have been quite disappointed in Apple's internet services, specifically iCloud Drive which seems like quite a half-ass implementation. I'll be buying the iPad Air 2 in a few weeks but Apple hasn't done much to optimize iOS for the iPad to take advantage of such a powerful device. I don't want to leave the ecosystem and I love the hardware, but I feel a lot more can be done now to benefit the consumer and instead it feels like features are being held back.


macrumors 65816
Jun 10, 2005
Yes and no, I've had major issues with my MacBook Pro, it's had everything in it replaced from the "logic" board to the screen, and pretty much everything in between excepting the top case.

I rang up Apple two months out of Apple Care because my battery they replaced wasn't holding charge, it'd been replaced so it was covered under the normal conditions for a new battery, however I'm talking to the guy on the phone and he says:

"No sir, it's perfectly acceptable that a computer lasts only 3 years, do you use it for business purposes and have you thought about upgrading"

:rolleyes: Come on....

I took it into the local, official, Apple Retail store here in Brisbane, same spiel

"It's perfectly acceptable a laptop only lasts 3 years..."

At this point I walk over to the "genius" bar, the "genius" tests it

"hmmm... that battery is draining faster than it should, we're going to look at that."

While they eventually did replace the logic board AGAIN at no cost, I'm just sick of the attitude they have that if you take a device in there 1 day outside of the Apple Care period, it's expected to magically self destruct and cause a thermonuclear meltdown and that you're supposed to walk out after spending $1800 on a new Machine.

It's this kind of attitude that's making me think about buying something other than Apple for my next laptop.

The Man

macrumors 6502a
Jul 7, 2004
I've been an Apple user since 1994. There are things I don't like about Apple. People calling Apple users a cult forget that the most loyal Apple fan is the most critical. These are a few current things I don't like...

Apple says they want to put user experience first, but they don't. Like selling an 8GB iPhone in 2014, seven years after the first iPhone came out! That's not good experience. Even 16GB is only acceptable.

That brings me to their new iPhone 6 and iPad spec structure with 16GB, 64GB and 128GB of memory. I think Apple should give people not just an acceptable experience, but an excellent experience, so a first time buyer keeps coming back. But if you try to just sell acceptable products, people start to think twice. 16GB is not enough to play with things like apps, magazines, videos and music, not forgetting the pictures and videos people take. And I know, business is hard because people keep their iPhones and iPads longer the more powerful they get and the more storage you give them, but I believe in the principle that you should on giving the customer the best experience.

Also putting 4GB of RAM in the entry level Mac mini or MacBook Air. I mean, come on, this is 2014. Yeah, yeah, OS X runs acceptable on 4GB of RAM, but that's my point! Just give people awesome experience. Look, it's like when Apple first had a 4GB iPhone model but they quickly scrapped that. Apple needs to do more right now to scrap to crap. Yes, Apple is still a business, but they say they are more, then prove it.


macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
The Misty Mountains
Overall my iPad 2 runs ok on iOs8, although I have noticed some slow downs on Safari, when entering posts at MacRumors, sometimes Safari or is it the MacRumors site freezes for a couple of minutes? Never had this before so I assume it's ios8. Two ways I deal with it, wait it out, or I switch out of Safari to the ios desktop and relaunch Safari from there. Any post that is half way entered, is most likely gone.

For anyone speaking to improve performance with ios8, this link might help a little:

It suggests reducing motion and transparency. The other issue is if you ipad is full, better remove some stuff.


macrumors 6502a
Jan 6, 2009
Temple, TX
Thoughts after reading others comments.

Opinion that Apple expects you to buy new often

The Man
Opinion that Apple isn't giving us the best bang for the buck

Now put those two together.

If both are true then Apple is wasting a lot of money on CNC cases. Why make them so robust? They don't have to last long. Spend that money on better specifications, more bang for the buck.

Around 1980 someone at GM took a look at costs. Found that GM was still making body part stamping dies to last 1 million stampings. That was fine for 1965 when Chevrolet sold 1 million Impalas. But it made no sense to spend that money in 1980. Competition meant you were never going to sell 1 million of anything again.
It made sense to put that money elsewhere.

Now many have tried (myself included) to compare the computer market to the auto market. But this example is only to show that if the internals aren't going to outlast the external case why spend so much on the case?

Especially now when Apple is making it impossible to upgrade anything.
If you can't get into it, if there is no reason to get into it, if you are going to have to replace it soon, why put it in a bombproof case?

Spend the money on the inside instead.

Doesn't mean you still can't make it good looking.


macrumors G3
Aug 24, 2009
Apple has been slowly putting me off their products since the switch to Intel. Its now 2014 and finally reached the point where literally none of them appeal to me.


macrumors 601
Feb 24, 2009
Toronto, Ontario
This was likely going to happen. Before, Apple was pretty much an unknown in terms of mass consumer appeal/products. Seeing one in person would have that wow appeal. But now that the computer/electronic market is so competitive and huge and add the fact that everyone and their grandma has at least one Apple product, it's just overwhelming and Apple products, at least to me, no longer have that wow appeal - it's just another electronic device.


macrumors 68000
Oct 9, 2012
i don't look forward to new product as I once did. I just set an alert at refurbme for a mid 2012 MBA as a backup for this one. I love this one and don't want what is offered now.

I no longer update all software. I pick and choose hoping an update doesn't break something I want/need.

The last time I updated a device was to iOS 5 on the day it was served from a public network. I wanted it so badly that I couldn't wait to get home where updating would have been a more prudent choice. It all went well and I loved it!

Never thought things would get to the point that I considered the risk/ reward ratio unfavorable.

I've been changed from a delighted end user who owned some shares to a shareholder who has some Apple products. It's sad for me. I no longer recommend Apple. If someone asks I'll tell them of product I currently use and the software version the item is running.

Never thought this would be as it is. It was a heck of a good run for many years.


macrumors 6502
Dec 6, 2010
OP, you are absolutely on target.

I got started supporting Apple equipment & software back in 1995, and Apple was making great stuff. This was back in the days when Mac's were more expensive that Intel boxes, but one of the easy justifications was that you typically got 3 years max life out of an Intel box. But a Mac lasted much longer. In that time period, I personally had an 8600 that me and my wife used every day for 8 years.

Don't get me wrong, just like you, I have a boat load of Mac's, and Apple accessories in my house. And the stuff I have is great. But since about OS X 10.5, Mac OS X has been like a country music record. AKA, the joke, you know what you get if you play a country music record backwards.....Answer, your wife, your horse, your house, your job, and so on. And the follow on, you know what you get if you play your Mac OS X disk backwards: Appletalk, Rosetta, NFS server, FTP server, Classic support, etc . . .

The newest verson of Mac OS X I am running on any computer in my house is 10.6. I have PPC applications and games that will never be rewritten or ported to Intel code.

My iPhone 5, I stopped upgrading at IOS 6.1.2. Started to get to the point were some apps wont update, but it runs well and I know *absolutely no good* can come from upgrading it to a newer IOS. And the weirdest part of it all, I have had this happen to me at several parties, I will have to pull my iPhone out for some reason, some girl will be looking over my shoulder or something and ooh and aaah over my cool iPhone graphics, typically from messages but sometimes others, and want me to tell them how I got my phone to look like that.

I will give you my advice, but I am just repeating what several others have already commented. Don't upgrade till and unless you have to. Sometime between about the last 5-7 years, I've gone from using bleeding edge Apple code to becoming a trailing edge person.


macrumors regular
Jan 20, 2010
I've been a Mac convert since 2007, but lately I've been thinking about defecting. Just in the past 7 years I've noticed a big shift in attitude at Apple as well as complete disregard for third party support. First Apple switched to its own Maps and killed a lot of Google services integration in iOS. Then it made it tougher to use non-Apple monitors, I have to do a hack to get RGB working. With Yosemite, I have to disable kext signing just to have TRIM enabled for my SSD. There's also the arrogance I've gotten at certain Apple stores, we won't go there.

I hate to say it, but things started going downhill before Jobs left, IMO.


macrumors 68030
Aug 29, 2009
If I had to stop purchasing Apple products, I wouldn't have much to complain about. I'm definitely tired of their inflated egos and how they over-hype every single detail in their products.

I do like Mountain Lion, though, and would probably build a Hackintosh as a new computer if I ever need to replace my current one. I'd probably try to fit it into my Mac Pro's case, too.


macrumors 601
Oct 25, 2008
What Apple does it does well. What Apple does isn't for someone like me or any other person who is more interested in function over form.

Apple has a marketing model that places both dollars and "wow" factor over real functionality gains. Yes, I guess next year I will be looking elsewhere.


macrumors 68020
Jun 8, 2011
Nope. I love Apple just as much as ever. Not because they're perfect, but because my expectations are tempered. I still experience a few inexplicable lags and glitches in both iOS 8 and Yosemite, but my iPhone, iPad, and MBP run very smooth for the most part and do everything I want them to do. I never feel as if I've overpaid for an Apple product, no matter how expensive it is.

Another reason why I'm not sick of Apple is because I indulge in competing products. I just ordered a Lenovo ThinkPad x140e, and I'm almost as excited about getting it as I am about any Apple product. Simply put- it's an awesome little laptop that's cheap, durable, and reasonably snappy. I can't justify spending (at least) $750 at this point in time, so a MacBook Air is out of the question for now. In the meantime, the x140e is perfect. Something durable that I can tote to and from school, and I have the added benefit of being able to get rid of Boot Camp and dedicate the SSD in my MBP to OS X.

My point is this- by keeping my horizons open to other brands, I never feel trapped or locked in by Apple- which therefore makes me happier about my Apple products. There are good Windows laptops and Android phones, and I don't feel like I have to bash Apple to make such a statement.

For many, there appears to be an emotional barrier to buying competing products because so many years of buying exclusively Apple products makes it hard to switch. I get that. But it's never too late to see what's on the other side of the fence. You might never come back to Apple, but maybe you'll realize that Apple still meets your needs better than any other company. Doesn't hurt to try.
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macrumors newbie
Nov 7, 2019
Yup, fed up. I started looking hard at alternatives starting in about 2017. I’m seriously thinking of trying Google machines.

Timothy Leo Crowley

macrumors regular
Dec 5, 2016
Nope. Having no problems with my older I devices. Still loving Apple. There are those you will find on forums who agree with you. Millions of others are just enjoying the best computer gadgets made.
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macrumors P6
Mar 21, 2011
Australia, Perth
I've been sick of Apple for years.. That's why i do my own thing.

It's what happens when your in a blocked cubical. Most noticeable, with thid party hardware..

There is really no reason once I read something on my QNAP NAS, then eject, "Finder is still using it" for no reason..

It seems with every security update, these get worse.. I hate just force quitting when there is clearly no need to.. Doesn't happen all the time, but it annoys me when it does.

Its a workaround that Apple chooses not to fix. (or will not)

That' s just one example,,, but the world of Apple of "as long as their are workarounds, that excuses us from fixing it" annoys me the most.

Also, revisiting the same old bugs have were fixed two releases ago, are now back, and the exceuse is "We added a new feature which broke it"

I really don't believe they care anymore.
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macrumors 65816
Apr 10, 2017
Nope. Their products are better than ever. Software is more polished than ever and the ecosystem is quite cohesive. Updates are shockingly quick to resolve issues. Nothing in life is perfect but they do appear to be trying hard and are aware you can’t make everyone happy. Let me know if you find another company that can offer everything Apple offers.

Expos of 1969

Aug 25, 2013
Nope. Having no problems with my older I devices. Still loving Apple. There are those you will find on forums who agree with you. Millions of others are just enjoying the best computer gadgets made.
That is the key phrase: "older i devices". Unfortunately many cannot say the same about i devices sold in the past three years.

Timothy Leo Crowley

macrumors regular
Dec 5, 2016
That is the key phrase: "older i devices". Unfortunately many cannot say the same about i devices sold in the past three years.

My most recent purchases were the iPhone XS Max and the 2018 Mac Mini. You can have them when you tear them from my cold dead hands. Millions and millions of people love the devices sold in the last few years. It's why we keep buying them and have made apple just about the most successful company in the world. People like to complain on forums.
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macrumors 68040
Apr 7, 2008
Flea Bottom, King's Landing
I'm a fan of Apple computers, but their offering in the last few years have been ho-hum (iMac, Mini) or priced way out of my budget (Mac Pro). I wish they'd make a mid-range tower at iMac prices (Mac Pro chassis with iMac parts). I don't want an all in one computer. I want the ability to add moar internal storage, moar ports. MOAR, MOAR, MOAR. But at a reasonable price.

I have zero interest in iPhones ore iPads.


macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
The Peninsula
My most recent purchases were the iPhone XS Max and the 2018 Mac Mini. You can have them when you tear them from my cold dead hands. Millions and millions of people love the devices sold in the last few years. It's why we keep buying them and have made apple just about the most successful company in the world. People like to complain on forums.
Tim - is that you again?


macrumors newbie
Mar 24, 2016
Los Angeles
Yes, Apple is very annoying. I am om the verge of leaving them out of necessity because they literally don't make pro stuff anymore. I have used Apple since the Apple IIe.

And if they do make a pro product like upcoming Mac Pro, it is so expensive and not truly modular outside Apple's proprietary cards, it blows as something to get excited about. One grand for just the monitor stand?

Yeah, in the PC world, you can get a more powerful graphics computer than the iMac for less than a thousand dollars. Hell, just Apple's phones are a grand now. Its the new normal!

They know we are locked into the ecosystem if you have an iPhone, iPad, and etc. But if you want to have a pro computer, Apple is not making them. Especially not in the laptop environment. If you just want to write and surf the web, then do you even care about this question. Most of think of computers as cars, depreciating assets we want to have for as long as we can.

Even the new alleged iPhone Pro doesn't have SD storage while claiming to be a 4K video wonder device. As someone who shoots on the iPhone all the time, I had to stop. (no storage expansion) No headphone jack or USB-C or system by which external storage works natively to get around problem.

iPhone is now the price of what a MacBook was. Almost most of the way to a 27: 5K iMac. Do you think that iPhone is same value proposition as an iMac?

I like the iPhone. I just don't think 1300 is effective as a price point. So you buy one, and then a year and half later that same amount has depreciated to about 300 bucks.

I know many people are leaving Apple because they need a machine to use better GPUs. They also are terrible at upgrading the system software, making such slow strides. I am glad they are making iCloud more powerful. Finally.

It must be strange when your iPad has more SSD storage than the computer you are supposed to be backing that iPad up to, eh? And typically, Apple never gives you enough RAM and they always sell devices with underpowered storage and memory.

Apple, because of not having true competition, because of its closed garden, doesn't have to be the best. It only needs to be marketed as the best. I get they are not going to be perfect, but how often do people complain they have fixed ram and storage soldered onto the motherboard? I remember the days when you could buy expansion cards and change your hard drive and make your computer last longer.

Now, even buying the newest and most powerful iMac will be buying a computer that is overpriced and not powerful enough for 4K or raw editing. And purchasing a 10,000 new Mac Pro is not an option. If only they just avoided the annoying things. Like if you make a MacBook Pro, make it a pro computer with the best specs. Make a modular computer. Maybe you can buy the 16 and get 32 later. No you can't do that, and they will gouge you if you buy the ram from them, so naturally make it so they have to buy all the ram they need at point of purchase. Makes total sense to a company that cares more for profits than changing the world.

The Mac Mini is worst example of a computer ever. Cant they just make a little tower. I think the iMac is still the best Mac and not a bad idea for an overall computer. But Apple might create a new proprietary port, making your computer obsolete. They might drop iTunes, and create a watch I don't want. I just wished they made good computers that one could build upon.

Apple could have taken on the gaming industry, but then they didn't. It will never will, because they won't make a computer for that niche. And the Macs are just not ever going to be as fast as others that can upgrade. And post iPhone, everything is for that random iPhone market. Lets make our MacBooks like iPhones.

The nerve calling an iPhone Pro, with no pro features, particularly in the storage area. When the USB-C port came out, there should have been a feature on a mac where you could upgrade your computer to have that port. But if you purchased a computer the year before, you lose. Same when graphics technology changes, or memory requirements grow. You can't grow without buying a brand new computer, and Apple is less innovative, more pricey, and very annoying.
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macrumors P6
Mar 21, 2011
Australia, Perth
I just accidentally enabled two factor on iPhone sigining into iCloud... Not on purpose.. . Now i'm pondering weather to close down my apple account just to disable it.

Its a long shot....
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macrumors 65816
Dec 1, 2015
Suburb of Detroit
I'll try to make this a short reply. Here's from a different perspective, I was a PC person for close to 40 years. I even would build my own PCs and even earned a certification as a PC Technician. I got tired of using Windows the last 2-3 years or what some people sick of Windows, so I switched over Apple. Going onto almost 6 years now and I like the Apple experience as everything just works (knocking on wood as I type this). I also like how my iPad, iPhone, iMac and AW3 integrate with each other. I have nothing bad to say about Windows as I was just simply tired of using that platform. I was tired of have every electronic device "play" nice with each other as it was a juggling act finding the right drivers (in the beginning) or if some device just wouldn't play nice with other devices. Like I said it's from a different perspective and I can see the flip side of this and I really don't need to read the comments as I have been there, done that.
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