Is Apple concerned/aware about all the negative comments about the new MP?

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by compute, Jun 24, 2013.

  1. compute macrumors regular

    Jun 11, 2013
    Its fair to say that the utmost majority of the MP users are negative about this new MP to say the least. Do you guys think the MP developers and big shots at apple are aware of all this negativity and what do you think would be their reaction to all this?

    Might all this justified criticism be a reason for apple to still do a few last-minute changes to the new MP before releasing it or are they just going to sit this one out with the risk of losing even more Pro users to the competition.

    Has Apple really screwed up on this one, would there have been some kind of a crisis meeting saying "ok guys i think we screwed up on this one and went a bit to far on this one, the people are not buying into the ************ this time"
  2. simsaladimbamba

    Nov 28, 2010
    From where do you get the impression, that the MAJORITY of MP users have a negative view on the new Mac Pro? The threads in this sub-forum are not a good indicator for that, as it is visited by a mishmash of people.
  3. NewbieCanada macrumors 68030

    Oct 9, 2007
    When I look at posts I look at the signature line. If I see criticisms of last year's decision to drop the MacBook Pro 17" that come from people owning an iMac or an 11" MBA, I take them a whole lot less seriously than those coming from someone owning a 2010 MBP 17".

    I'm not seeing a lot of criticisms of the new MacPro coming from people who've ever owned a previous model. Some yes, but most are from people who have no horse in this race.
  4. mcnallym macrumors 6502a

    Oct 28, 2008
    I would say that the majority of the active members in the Mac Pro forum aren't impressed with the new Mac Pro.

    However I am not sure that they are the people that the Mac Pro is targeted at by Apple. If it isn't targeted by Apple at the people complaining on the forum, then I doubt that they will worry too much. There is already a fair number of people saying that looking forward to the new Mac Pro as will suit them very much.

    I get the impression is more the Studio's doing Video Work that it is aimed at, also it will need software upgrades whereby software starts using OpenCL more so that can utilise the new cards, not much use though or the Photographers.

    With current software not taking advantage of the OpenCL capability then the 12 Core isn't going to be much quicker then the current 12 Core and if you get the 3.46Ghz CPU's in then could even be slower if max out other parts of the current 12 Core. In fact I am pretty sure that it is slower using current software.

    Whether that remains true once updated software using OpenCL remains to be seen, and I guess we won't see that till the launch at the earliest.
  5. GermanyChris macrumors 601


    Jul 3, 2011
    Really? You haven't been reading here much.
  6. compute thread starter macrumors regular

    Jun 11, 2013
    Then i'm probably reading it all wrong...:rolleyes:

    The absolute majority of articles and reactions of people concerning the new MP are negative, not only on this forum but in articles and other forums also.
  7. drsox macrumors 65816


    Apr 29, 2011
    Then I suspect that Apple has some other aspects of this MP to announce when it finally gets launched. I bet they have a different strategy for this than a straight one-for-one replacement.
  8. MeFromHere macrumors 6502

    Oct 11, 2012
    Apple has something that none of us have... data. Lots of data about how currently deployed Macs are configured and used. They know how much disk storage is configured, how much memory is installed. They know what apps are used, and in what combinations. They know how many times CDs and DVDs are mounted and unmounted. Etc. etc. etc.

    All that data helps them decide the features for new products. So when we read lots of posts at MacRumors howling that the 2012 iMac lost the optical drive (to take a single example) it suggested to me that MacRumors folks are pretty far outside the mainstream for iMacs. If optical drives on older iMacs were used a lot, Apple would know and would have kept them in the new system.

    In the case of Mac Pro, I suspect the data is telling Apple that lots of SATA drive bays and PCIe expansion lots would go to waste. By moving these items out of the system enclosure, they can optimize power and cooling. They are concentrating on the core features of the system that they believe will give the most benefit to the majority, while providing for external ways to add more stuff for the minority.
  9. kazmac macrumors 603


    Mar 24, 2010
    On the silver scream
    even though I wish I was in the market for this new Mac Pro

    Sadly, I'm not in the market for a MP of any stripe, but the OP raises an interesting point.

    Not sure if they are listening to the negativity, but the one place Apple will obviously be very concerned is if this new MP doesn't sell.

    Many things could change between now and the release date. We have only seen prototypes.
  10. cgk.emu macrumors 6502

    May 16, 2012
    People LOVE to complain here.
  11. handsome pete macrumors 68000

    Aug 15, 2008
    There's no evidence to support that. This is exactly what they did with Final Cut Pro. Users either adapted, jumped ship, or are still waiting it out. But there was no intermediary option to bridge the gap. I don't see why there would be one in this case.
  12. ABCDEF-Hex macrumors 6502


    Feb 15, 2013
    Different strokes:

    Lots of opinions here with most of them concerned as to why the new MP wasn't designed just for their needs only:

    1 - Professionals (however you define that)
    2 - Pro-sumers.
    3 - Gamers
    4 - Hobbyists (like the challenge of solving the problems associated with trying to "shoehorn" todays tech into a MP 1,1

    and many more sub groups.

    Then you have the "silent majority" who are to busy at work to complain because they have no complaints. Their MP's are humming along getting the job done.

    Also, I like what a previous poster said about Apple having much more information than we do - they are looking at the big picture.
  13. NewbieCanada macrumors 68030

    Oct 9, 2007
    On the contrary, I have. Also previous discussions about how no one would buy the Retina because it didn't have an Optical Drive or built-in Ethernet. In fact before it was unveiled they refused to believe Apple would do it.

    Also all the garbage about discontinuing the 17" MBP - from the posts here you'd think it was Apple's best seller, rather than its worst.

    Everything Apple introduces, everything they change, is derided here by a loud minority that insists it will be a disaster. I'm sure, had it been possible, there'd have been complaints about them adding a keyboard when they introduced the Apple ][.
  14. drsox macrumors 65816


    Apr 29, 2011
    OK, I'll be disappointed if that's the case as this is supposed to be a big deal for them.
  15. deconstruct60 macrumors 604

    Mar 10, 2009
    Major ones? Not likely. Some configurations that help control costs (multiple entry GPU line-up config options)? Probably. The fundamental flaw there is the assumption that the current/old Mac Pro was successful prior to the lull from 2010-2013. If the numbers sold was steadily dropping then they aren't going to go back to sell to some parts of that old targeted market.

    So this is not intended to be a one-for-one replacement. There are some folks they are cutting loose and probably hope to replace with a new set of folks who are better aligned with this Mac and the rest of the Mac line up.

    There are several sub groups of Mac Pro users and related boxes that complain that basically can be tossed out.

    a. the Hackintosh folks. Those who complain that they can always grab their trusty screwdriver and build something better than the Mac Pro (current or new one) aren't going to move Apple's strategy. The complaints that are indirectly about the impact the funding stream of keeping the hacked drivers work going, Apple isn't loosing sleep over those. (those folks aren't customers and don't want to be customers. )

    Is Apple going to completely shut down Hackintosh? No. However, they also aren't going to proactively enable it either.

    b. A large chunk of the xMac folks. A substantial fraction of folks who constantly complain about the Mac Pro don't really want the Mac Pro. The primary xMac offering right now is older/used Mac Pro because it meets one of most requested xMac feature; lower price. Folks complaining about how the used market is going to change long term. Again this folks are primarily non Apple customers.

    A large fraction of the "lower cost" complaints were coached as "smaller" (and therefore should be cheaper) ones. Apple more than shrunk the size, but they have left the higher BOM costs in. That mean there won't be a huge shift in price.

    c. Users that are actually complaining about lack of focus on their sunk costs; not really the viability of the new machine. " I need proprietary card XYZ and it is more important than the rest of my Mac system. " . The flaw in their complaints typically revolves around Apple's duty to make their choices, good or bad long term, work. That Apple's business is primarily suppose about making their design and/or purchase decisions work.

    Apple obsoleting a full sized standard PCI-e card SSD with a much smaller physical format at just as high bandwidth speeds. They aren't going to change course from that.

    d. The form over function users. "I've had a box with slots so therefore I need a box with slots". Ironically a sizable fraction of these folks throw a complaint couched as "Apple is perusing form over function" and then proceed to complain about Apple's form as not being the one they prefer (which is still a form first focus).

    e. The "I'm going to ride this Mac Pro to its grave" users. "Bah! Humbug! My vintage/legacy Mac Pro works just fine. I'm not going to spend more money". Frankly, practically none of that is about the new aspects of the Mac Pro one way or the other. They probably weren't buying no matter what Apple's design choices were.

    Toss a-e out and the number of unique complaints will plummet. There are more than just a small few. But a major fraction of the bulk is the above.

    Finally, the bulk of Mac Pro potential 2013-early 2014 buyers are simply just waiting for more info. They are not complaining or committing to buy while they wait for more information. Complainers are typically over represented in forums because it is more about their expression than best fit system design. And frankly for most folks with Mac Pros .... they aren't broken. They don't have to buy this model right now.
  16. gnasher729 macrumors P6


    Nov 25, 2005
    It may be fair to say, but it may be very wrong. What makes you think that the complainers and whiners are actually MacPro users?
  17. Wild-Bill macrumors 68030


    Jan 10, 2007
    That is correct. And I would say Apple is well aware of the negative comments. Otherwise, there would not have been scores of newly registered MR users whose very first post is about how "great" they think the new redesign is. (Read: damage control).
  18. gnasher729 macrumors P6


    Nov 25, 2005
    If everyone who complained about the 17" being discontinued had bought one, it wouldn't have been discontinued. :D

    Could you point out a few examples of that? Because I surely didn't notice it.
  19. deconstruct60 macrumors 604

    Mar 10, 2009
    Apple doesn't show prototypes to the general public.

    Anyone expecting substantial design changes is likely going to be very deeply disappointed. Apple did not put this sneak peak out there to solicit help in finishing off the design.

    These are probably either hand or very limited run assembled devices but that isn't really prototypes and much as working the bugs out of the associated production processes. This is just a couple of months before flip the switch to volume productions. The prototype stage was many months (if not a over a year) ago.
  20. Bear macrumors G3

    Jul 23, 2002
    Sol III - Terra
    Actually they don't know all that unless they get a crash dump from a system. Otherwise Apple only knows how each machine is originally configured. If I were to buy the current Mac Pro, I would be getting it with only one disk installed. I would buy the rest of the internal disks from someplace less expensive. And the same for memory upgrades.

    The real question is what Thunderbolt expansions does Apple know about that haven't been announced yet? Is Apple planning on one of their own?
  21. deconstruct60 macrumors 604

    Mar 10, 2009
    You have little to no proof those were Apple folks ( or minions paid by Apple). There are a score of folks who just say ridiculous and weakly grounded in the truth here primary just to elicit responses.

    For the year before the recent sneak peak there has been the constant drumbeat of "Mac Pro is dead" , "Mac Pro is going hypermodular" , etc. which were just as full of FUD as some these "newbies". Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if a subset of that was the same folks with a different handle running a sock puppet show.

    There are always "defenders of the faith" who pop up on macrumors forums.

    Apple's counter spin control likely would come through their special relation media bloggers. They'll let this initial wave burn out and then get those folks access and/or have 'sit down and talk' with them.

    With a change in focus this big alot of the complaints are just knee jerk reaction to the surprise. That just takes time for most folks to work through. A counter FUD campaign is actually counter effective in helping folks get back that initial wave of surprise.
  22. Rogifan macrumors Core


    Nov 14, 2011
    Yawn. This happens with every Apple product release. Pull up the thread here when the unibody MacBooks were announced. People were livid. Hated the glossy screens, black chicklet keyboards, too expensive, where's Apple's cheap laptop, etc. I have yet to see Apple release a product that wasn't hated by a vocal minority. And it's usually the vocal minority that are the loudest on sites like MR.
  23. Wild-Bill macrumors 68030


    Jan 10, 2007

    I think this is a LOT different. It's as if they took all the feedback on what people wanted in a new Mac Pro and did the complete opposite. It also seems as if they did it to get the type of response it got in order to finally kill off the line.

    I will vote with my wallet and build a Hackint0sh instead.
  24. CausticPuppy macrumors 65816

    May 1, 2012
    Bear in mind that "people complaining on the internet" isn't necessarily the same thing as "majority of MP users."
  25. handsome pete macrumors 68000

    Aug 15, 2008
    Of course they have more information. But that's why forums like these exist, for us to waste time discussing and speculating ad nauseum with little to no information.

    But the "big picture" could mean a lot of different things. It could refer to "the future of workstation computing." It could also mean Apple realizing it doesn't make sense for them financially to focus on enterprise users so they'll cede that segment to competitors.

    No one knows and it'll take some time for that to become evident.

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